Discussion of research into "alternative" cancer treatments.

Some of this is [censored], and worded in a deceptive way for instance :-

'In this article, clinical trial data on a number of
alternative cancer cures including Livingston-Wheeler, Di
Bella Multitherapy, antineoplastons, vitamin C, hydrazine
sulfate, Laetrile, and psychotherapy are reviewed. The label
"unproven" is inappropriate for such therapies; it is time
to assert that many alternative cancer therapies have been
"disproven."

What does he mean unproven for therapies such as vitamin c
does he mean proven or disproven? I can only assume that he
means disproven, in which case I seem to recall that the
Cameron protocol for vitamin c (which involved IV
treatments) has not been tested properly. Oral vitamin c has
and was disproven athough it caused many objections.. In a
similar way, neither has the true Laetrile protocol been
tested as this involves IV injections,special diet
proteolytic enzymes vitamins etc

Anth

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:40ce7e7a$0$311$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-
03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au...

Quoted message said:

://caonline.amcancersoc.org/cgi/content/full/54/2/110#R49-
7

Peter Moran

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:40ce7e7a$0$311$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-
03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au...

Quoted message said:

://caonline.amcancersoc.org/cgi/content/full/54/2/110#R49-
7

Peter Moran

Quoted message said:

Subject: Discussion of research into "alternative" cancer
treatments. From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden] Date:
6/14/2004 8:45 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <40ce7e7a$0$311$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-
03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au>

p://caonline.amcancersoc.org/cgi/content/full/54/2/110#R49-
7

Peter Moran

sfgate.comcgiOpen ↗
bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/01/
22/MN184965.DTL

impactpress.comcancer8900.htmlOpen ↗

Jan

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Some of this is [censored], and worded in a deceptive way for
instance :-

'In this article, clinical trial data on a number of
alternative cancer cures including Livingston-Wheeler, Di
Bella Multitherapy,

antineoplastons,

Quoted message said:

vitamin C, hydrazine sulfate, Laetrile, and psychotherapy
are reviewed.

The

Quoted message said:

label "unproven" is inappropriate for such therapies; it
is time to assert that many alternative cancer therapies
have been "disproven."

What does he mean unproven for therapies such as vitamin c
does he mean proven or disproven? I can only assume that
he means disproven, in which case I seem to recall that
the Cameron protocol for vitamin c (which involved IV
treatments) has not been tested properly. Oral vitamin c
has and was disproven athough it caused many objections..

I agree that this author is not paying due heed to the
possibility that the much higher blood concentrations
possible with IV vitamin C may explain the occasional good
result reported by Cameron. The quack clinics using IV
vitamin C don't now seem to be reporting the same anecdotal
results, but I suspect they use it in a token form, not
aggressively, like Cameron. Nevertheless the dominant claim
at the time of the studies was that vitamin C in any form
was curing cancers.

Quoted message said:

In a similar way, neither has the true Laetrile protocol
been tested as

this

Quoted message said:

involves IV injections,special diet proteolytic enzymes
vitamins etc

We can only test the claims as made, and Laetrile was
definitely promoted as a stand alone oral cancer treatment.
It is impractical to be injecting proteolytic enzymes into
human cancers, and it was that which seemed to mainly work
in the mice experiments. Laetrile alone had no effect, as
even Ralph Moss indicates in his account of the work, which
you kindly sent to me.

Laetrile is still mainly in use as an oral treatment, but
with rather less enthusiasm nowadays.

Peter Moran

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:LrGdnf-Dw-c-S1PdRVn-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Some of this is [censored], and worded in a deceptive way for
instance :-

'In this article, clinical trial data on a number of
alternative cancer cures including Livingston-Wheeler, Di
Bella Multitherapy,

antineoplastons,

Quoted message said:

vitamin C, hydrazine sulfate, Laetrile, and psychotherapy
are reviewed.

The

Quoted message said:

label "unproven" is inappropriate for such therapies; it
is time to assert that many alternative cancer therapies
have been "disproven."

What does he mean unproven for therapies such as vitamin
c does he mean proven or disproven? I can only assume
that he means disproven, in which case I seem to recall
that the Cameron protocol for vitamin c (which involved
IV treatments) has not been tested properly. Oral vitamin
c has and was disproven athough it caused many
objections..

I agree that this author is not paying due heed to the
possibility that the much higher blood concentrations
possible with IV vitamin C may explain the occasional good
result reported by Cameron. The quack clinics using IV
vitamin C don't now seem to be reporting the same
anecdotal results, but I suspect they use it in a token
form, not aggressively, like Cameron. Nevertheless the
dominant claim at the time of the studies was that vitamin
C in any form was curing cancers.

I think it's a shame this this thing is not tested, Cameron
reported anecdotes about results in pancreatic cancer, which
today is problematic to treat.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In a similar way, neither has the true Laetrile protocol
been tested as

this

Quoted message said:

involves IV injections,special diet proteolytic enzymes
vitamins etc

We can only test the claims as made, and Laetrile was
definitely promoted as a stand alone oral cancer
treatment. It is impractical to be injecting proteolytic
enzymes into human cancers, and it was that which seemed
to mainly work in the mice experiments. Laetrile alone had
no effect, as even Ralph Moss indicates in his account of
the work, which you kindly sent to me.

I think Dr Max Wolf died from renal failure because they
injected his stomach cancer with proteolytic enzymes. Kind
of ironic that someone who promoted the use of enzymes to
digest tumours died as a result of his own style of
treatments....(Probably down to tumour break down burden or
mets) There's recent mice studies showing that OPPE (oral
porcine protelytic enzymes) increased the life span of mice
inplanted with human pancreatic cancer tumours when it was
added to their drinking water.

Quoted message said:

Laetrile is still mainly in use as an oral treatment, but
with rather less enthusiasm nowadays.

I wouldn't touch Laetrile as a primary cancer treatment, but
I would try it to control pain and tumour fetor. (I saw how
doped my mother was in her final days on the morphine,
something I was assured wouldn't happen - ah well......)

Quoted message said:

Peter Moran

Anth

Peter Moran said:

://caonline.amcancersoc.org/cgi/content/full/54/2/110#R49-
7

I notice the vitaletheine modulator research is missing from
the "list". BTW, any "Moran" should know by now that a great
deal of "scientific" research is predicated upon studies
that deal largely with people who are not interested in
actually becoming healthy, but simply "better". This skews
the entire process considerably, making it easy for a
prejudicial soul like "Peter" to spew asinine remarks like:

"The vitallethine story is very shonky, in my opinion, Anth.
There is minimal direct research in support, a tendency of
the promoters to rely on conjecture and quacky ideas. There
are literally hundreds of agents that have shown promise in
animal experiments but proved useless in cancer practice."

How many thousands, even millions, of compounds and ideas
have been explored in the search for pharmaceutically
"useful" drugs and medically "expedient" surgical
techniques? By the above criteria, that one should not
explore all available avenues because many of them prove to
be "dead ends, we might as well chuck the whole stinking
mess, right? After all, it is up to the creator of all
things to decide who lives and how long. How dare we lowly
miscreants seek to change the inherent perfection of the
natural world! "Peter" has blasphemed the eternal harmony
and must repent or suffer the consequences of his cringing
fall from grace. Oh ye hypocrites... ;^]

--
_o Kristofer Dale, _ \<,_ ragged individualist,
_____( )/ ( )_____ statistic at large...

p.s. Learn and live, vitaletherapeutics.orgvitaletherapeutics.orgOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Discussion of research into "alternative" cancer treatments.
From: "Kristofer D. Dale" [email hidden]
Date: 6/19/2004 12:54 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Peter Moran said:

//caonline.amcancersoc.org/cgi/content/full/54/2/110#R49-
7

I notice the vitaletheine modulator research is missing
from the "list". BTW, any "Moran" should know by now that a
great deal of "scientific" research is predicated upon
studies that deal largely with people who are not
interested in actually becoming healthy, but simply
"better". This skews the entire process considerably,
making it easy for a prejudicial soul like "Peter" to spew
asinine remarks like:

"The vitallethine story is very shonky, in my opinion,
Anth. There is minimal direct research in support, a
tendency of the promoters to rely on conjecture and quacky
ideas. There are literally hundreds of agents that have
shown promise in animal experiments but proved useless in
cancer practice."

How many thousands, even millions, of compounds and ideas
have been explored in the search for pharmaceutically
"useful" drugs and medically "expedient" surgical
techniques? By the above criteria, that one should not
explore all available avenues because many of them prove to
be "dead ends, we might as well chuck the whole stinking
mess, right? After all, it is up to the creator of all
things to decide who lives and how long. How dare we lowly
miscreants seek to change the inherent perfection of the
natural world! "Peter" has blasphemed the eternal harmony
and must repent or suffer the consequences of his cringing
fall from grace. Oh ye hypocrites... ;^]

Peter has already proven imself, long ago. He can see no
fraud, no cover-ups and no wrong doing, which is
blatantly plain.

Jan

Jan said:

Peter has already proven imself, long ago. He can see no
fraud, no cover-ups and no wrong doing, which is
blatantly plain.

Yep, proven himself to be an unimaginative toad, and a
cowardly "fence-sitter", much like yourself. The planet is
dying of "consumption", and it is likely just a matter of
time before the nukes start flying, so feel free to keep
braying like the ass you really are at heart. Think about
it, the so-called "leader" of the "free world" can't even
pronounce the word "nuclear" correctly. To paraphrase Fred

Pray tell me, oh wise one, what exactly you think will be
the final outcome of the "[censored]-for-brains" corruption of the
"First World's" profligate waste and conspicuous
consumption? First in what, besides rank mediocrity and
profound delusion? I don't know about you, but I am
literally surrounded by stuff made in China, and I'm smack
in the middle of that third-world-country-posing-as-a-state
named New Mexico! Granted, US per capita output of liars,
cheats and theives is undeniably prodigious, but even that
can carry a culture only so far. We are headed down from our
"lofty" ideals like a kamikaze suicide plane, and all the
"king's" horses and all the "kings" men won't be able to put
"Humpty" together again.

If this is the best human beings can come up with, for all
the supposed intelligence and inventiveness, then this
"experiment" deserves to be tossed in the dumpster of time.
Empires collapse, and yet people remain to carry on the
struggle of existence, come what may. The American "oil-
igarchy" is on a crash course with grim reality, in an
increasingly hostile world for it and its "allies", so it
behooves those with an "alternative" bent to get off the
"ride" while they still can. For instance, what good is a
million dollar medical intervention if it renders the
recipient incapable of fending for themselves? Likewise,
what good comes from demanding a lion's share of available
resources when the result is so blatantly mediocre? Like
I've said elsewhere, get

--
_o Kristofer Dale, _ \<,_ ragged individualist,
_____( )/ ( )_____ statistic at large...

p.s. Learn and live, vitaletherapeutics.orgvitaletherapeutics.orgOpen ↗

Kristofer D. Dale said:

Jan said:

Peter has already proven imself, long ago. He can see no
fraud, no cover-ups and no wrong doing, which is
blatantly plain.

Yep, proven himself to be an unimaginative toad, and a
cowardly "fence-sitter", much like yourself. The planet is
dying of "consumption", and it is likely just a matter of
time before the nukes start flying, so feel free to keep
braying like the ass you really are at heart. Think about
it, the so-called "leader" of the "free world" can't even
pronounce the word "nuclear" correctly. To paraphrase Fred

Quoted message said:

Pray tell me, oh wise one, what exactly you think will be
the final outcome of the "[censored]-for-brains" corruption of
the "First World's" profligate waste and conspicuous
consumption? First in what, besides rank mediocrity and
profound delusion? I don't know about you, but I am
literally surrounded by stuff made in China, and I'm smack
in the middle of that third-world-country-posing-as-a-state
named New Mexico! Granted, US per capita output of liars,
cheats and theives is undeniably prodigious, but even that
can carry a culture only so far. We are headed down from
our "lofty" ideals like a kamikaze suicide plane, and all
the "king's" horses and all the "kings" men won't be able
to put "Humpty" together again.

If this is the best human beings can come up with, for all
the supposed intelligence and inventiveness, then this
"experiment" deserves to be tossed in the dumpster of time.
Empires collapse, and yet people remain to carry on the
struggle of existence, come what may. The American "oil-
igarchy" is on a crash course with grim reality, in an
increasingly hostile world for it and its "allies", so it
behooves those with an "alternative" bent to get off the
"ride" while they still can. For instance, what good is a
million dollar medical intervention if it renders the
recipient incapable of fending for themselves? Likewise,
what good comes from demanding a lion's share of available
resources when the result is so blatantly mediocre? Like
I've said elsewhere, get

Be patient, Kristofer. The nurse will be around with your
pills shortly.

--
Peter Bowditch The Millenium Project
ratbags.comrsolesOpen ↗ The Green Light
ratbags.comgreenlightOpen ↗ Quintessence of the Loon
ratbags.comloonOpen ↗ To email me use my first name
only at ratbags.com

"Kristofer D. Dale" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jan said:

Peter has already proven imself, long ago. He can see no
fraud, no

cover-ups

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and no wrong doing, which is blatantly plain.

Yep, proven himself to be an unimaginative toad, and a
cowardly "fence-sitter", much like yourself.

Wow! Been taking lessons on 'scientific' debate from Galen
Knight, Kris?

You win. I can't compete with this level of irrelevancy..

Peter Moran

In article <[email hidden]>,

Kristofer D. Dale said:

Jan said:

Peter has already proven imself, long ago. He can see no
fraud, no cover-ups and no wrong doing, which is
blatantly plain.

Yep, proven himself to be an unimaginative toad, and a
cowardly "fence-sitter", much like yourself. The planet is
dying of "consumption", and it is likely just a matter of
time before the nukes start flying, so feel free to keep
braying like the ass you really are at heart. Think about
it, the so-called "leader" of the "free world" can't even
pronounce the word "nuclear" correctly. To paraphrase Fred

Actually, if I recall correctly, Jimmy Carter tended to
mispronounce the word "nuclear" in the same way Bush does.
A lot of people tend to mispronounce that particular word
for some reason. Criticism for policy or actions doesn't
bug me, but it's usually an intellectually lazy cheap shot
to criticize someone over their mispronunciation of a
single word.

Quoted message said:

Pray tell me, oh wise one, what exactly you think will be
the final outcome of the "[censored]-for-brains" corruption of
the "First World's" profligate waste and conspicuous
consumption? First in what, besides rank mediocrity and
profound delusion? I don't know about you, but I am
literally surrounded by stuff made in China, and I'm smack
in the middle of that third-world-country-posing-as-a-
state named New Mexico!

You're just unhappy that Knight's legal contest didn't go
the way you wanted.

[Snip]

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do
|you inconvenience me with questions?"

In article
<[email hidden]
om.au>,

Peter Moran said:

"Kristofer D. Dale" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message -"]news:[email hidden]-
sgroups.com...

Quoted message said:

Jan said:

Peter has already proven imself, long ago. He can see
no fraud, no

cover-ups

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and no wrong doing, which is blatantly plain.

Yep, proven himself to be an unimaginative toad, and a
cowardly "fence-sitter", much like yourself.

Wow! Been taking lessons on 'scientific' debate from Galen
Knight, Kris?

You win. I can't compete with this level of irrelevancy..

Indeed, I have to wonder how ranting about nukes flying,
First World consumption, and Bush's mispronunciation of the
word "nuclear," coupled with a swipe at the state of New
Mexico as practically a "Third World country" is relevant to
alternative medicine.

Heck, he even attacked Jan, calling her a "cowardly fence-
sitter" and a "simpering fool" (which, I suspect, is what he
considers anyone who has the temerity not to express 100%
agreement with him on these particular issues). I also
suspect that he may come to regret having lashed out at Jan
like that. ;-)

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do
|you inconvenience me with questions?"

Peter Moran said:

Wow! Been taking lessons on 'scientific' debate from Galen
Knight, Kris?

Nope, been taking lessons on how to become healthy...

Quoted message said:

You win. I can't compete with this level of irrelevancy..

So, this is to be the last I hear from you? ;^]

--
_o Kristofer Dale, _ \<,_ ragged individualist,
_____( )/ ( )_____ statistic at large...

p.s. Learn and live, vitaletherapeutics.orgvitaletherapeutics.orgOpen ↗

Orac said:

Actually, if I recall correctly, Jimmy Carter tended to
mispronounce the word "nuclear" in the same way Bush does.
A lot of people tend to mispronounce that particular word
for some reason. Criticism for policy or actions doesn't
bug me, but it's usually an intellectually lazy cheap shot
to criticize someone over their mispronunciation of a
single word.

Yep, but you can't seem to tell the difference between
Jimmy, who has proven himself to be both a Christian and a
humanitarian in the years since his presidency, and a meat
puppet fronting for rapacious greedy [censored].

Quoted message said:

You're just unhappy that Knight's legal contest didn't go
the way you wanted.

Heh, very good, Mr. "Psychology 101". I actually don't give
a rat's ass what "decision" comes down from the courts, it's
pretty much acedemic at this point anyway. We are witnessing
yet another collapse of yet another "great" empire, and I'm
mostly interested in letting others know that there are
alternatives to being a dumb [censored], like yourself, even when
things are "tough all over". I have proven to myself for
myself that one does not need to be incessantly medicated
and dutifully fearful in order to live an active and
productive life. I've come a long way from being bed-ridden
for days on end eight years ago to my present state os
"ease" that allows me to keep sailing even when everyone
around me is down with colds and flus that used to nail me
often twice as hard. You seem to think that your need for
"scientific" proof is somehow relevant to my participation
in these forums, but I don't require your "seal of approval"
to deliver my message. Those who have more common sense than
arrogance, more temerity than timidity, more resolve than
devolve, will perhaps find my experience, and Knight's
knowledge, useful in the troubled times that lie ahead. If I
derive some personal enjoyment from bombastically yanking
your chain in the process, that is my perogative... ;^]

--
_o Kristofer Dale, _ \<,_ ragged individualist,
_____( )/ ( )_____ statistic at large...

p.s. Learn and live, vitaletherapeutics.orgvitaletherapeutics.orgOpen ↗

"Orac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <40de6b0b$0$18349$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-
03.brisbane.pipenetworks.c om.au>, "Peter Moran"

Quoted message said:

"Kristofer D. Dale" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message -"]news:[email hidden]-
ewsgroups.com...

Quoted message said:

Jan <[email hidden]> wrote:

> Peter has already proven imself, long ago. He can
> see no fraud, no

cover-ups

Quoted message said:

> and no wrong doing, which is blatantly plain.

Yep, proven himself to be an unimaginative toad, and a
cowardly "fence-sitter", much like yourself.

Wow! Been taking lessons on 'scientific' debate from
Galen Knight, Kris?

You win. I can't compete with this level of
irrelevancy..

Indeed, I have to wonder how ranting about nukes flying,
First World consumption, and Bush's mispronunciation of
the word "nuclear," coupled with a swipe at the state of
New Mexico as practically a "Third World country" is
relevant to alternative medicine.

Heck, he even attacked Jan, calling her a "cowardly fence-
sitter" and a "simpering fool" (which, I suspect, is what
he considers anyone who has the temerity not to express
100% agreement with him on these particular issues). I
also suspect that he may come to regret having lashed out
at Jan like that. ;-)?"

I am certain that if someone did express 100% agreement, he
would be suspicious.

Orac said:

Indeed, I have to wonder how ranting about nukes flying,
First World consumption, and Bush's mispronunciation of
the word "nuclear," coupled with a swipe at the state of
New Mexico as practically a "Third World country" is
relevant to alternative medicine.

It works like this. When the economy implodes, a likely
scenario given the American propensity to poke head in the
sand and leave ass flapping in the breeze, there ain't gonna
be no money to buy a bed in a hospital to have some
beleaguered surgeon, who is essentially a cross between
plumber and seamstress anyway, to patch up the ravages of a
lifetime of careless diet and lifestyle choices. Under the
circumstances, I think forewarned is forearmed. Besides, I
have always preferred my meat "medium raw"... ;^]

Quoted message said:

Heck, he even attacked Jan, calling her a "cowardly fence-
sitter" and a "simpering fool" (which, I suspect, is what
he considers anyone who has the temerity not to express
100% agreement with him on these particular issues). I
also suspect that he may come to regret having lashed out
at Jan like that. ;-)

Wrong, as per usual, mon sewer, idiots abound everywhere,
not just here, and my primary regret is that I did not take
a more pro-active role in my mates health problems and her
near-total dependancy upon both MD's and so-called natural
practitioners. Bottom line, they all let her down, and I
didn't have enough time to help her pick up the pieces. At
least I was able to allow her to die at home surrounded by
friends and family. "C'est la guerre..."

--
_o Kristofer Dale, _ \<,_ ragged individualist,
_____( )/ ( )_____ statistic at large...

p.s. Learn and live, vitaletherapeutics.orgvitaletherapeutics.orgOpen ↗

Jan said:

Hardly.

Obviously, I disagree. When people who should know better
refuse to act when a problem arises, they become part of the
problem. Either this is an act of subtle cowardice, easily
rationalized away, or you are so conditioned as to be unable
to think and act on your own. Whatever the case may be, your
feeble "defense" of the "Moran" is additional proof of your
profound lack of common sense. You prattle on about about
"proof" while the house burns down around you. Please do not
expect any sympathy from me if you get burned...

Quoted message said:

You have the right to be wrong.

I also have the knowledge to be right. Let me give you an
example. Today I was chipping some plaster away from a
ceiling that had a piece of sheet-metal ductwork protruding
through, and I happened to brush past the metal edge quickly
and made a nice clean surgically precise cut in and back
under the knuckle of my left middle finger, slicing through
enough tissue to cause a rapid and steady flow of blood from
the wound. I rinsed the accumulated blood from my hand,
positioned the wound over the sink drain, and waited fro
about a minute for the blood to slow to a drip. rinsed the
finger again, let the cut "knit" for another minute or so,
and went back to work, no stitches, no anti-biotics, no pain-
killers, and no time wasted waiting to be seen in an
emergency room. Even now, about twelve hours later, I can
flex the finger without pulling the wound opening and
oozing. As with every other such cut I have had for the past
several years, there is only a tiny amount of inflammation
immediately next to the cut, and there is never any pus or
discharge indicative of infection, regardless of the
location. Please explain to me why this is so, you who are
so much wiser than I... ;^]

Quoted message said:

Mercy me, what made you so angry?????

Being told I am wrong despite starkly obvious evidence to
the contrary...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"alternative" bent to get off the "ride" while they
still can.

Quoted message said:

I am sorry, but alternative medicine saved my live.

Why are you sorry? Isn't it clear from the language of my
prior post that I am not promoting "mainstream" medicine? Do
you understand what I meant by "alternatives" in the
paragraph you reponded to? Do you automatically respond with
such knee-jerk simplicity to all stimulus? Am I dealing with
the functional equivalent of a paramecium? I have an
"enquiring" mind, I want to know... ;^]

Quoted message said:

You OK???

Yes, and no. Obviously... ;^]

Quoted message said:

I have helped others and will continue.

Helped them how, assisted suicide?

--
_o Kristofer Dale, _ \<,_ ragged individualist,
_____( )/ ( )_____ statistic at large...

p.s. Learn and live, vitaletherapeutics.orgvitaletherapeutics.orgOpen ↗

"Kristofer D. Dale" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jan said:

Hardly.

Obviously, I disagree. When people who should know better
refuse to act when a problem arises, they become part of
the problem. Either this is an act of subtle cowardice,
easily rationalized away, or you are so conditioned as to
be unable to think and act on your own. Whatever the case
may be, your feeble "defense" of the "Moran" is additional
proof of your profound lack of common sense. You prattle
on about about "proof" while the house burns down around
you. Please do not expect any sympathy from me if you get
burned...

Quoted message said:

You have the right to be wrong.

I also have the knowledge to be right. Let me give you an
example. Today I was chipping some plaster away from a
ceiling that had a piece of sheet-metal ductwork
protruding through, and I happened to brush past the metal
edge quickly and made a nice clean surgically precise cut
in and back under the knuckle of my left middle finger,
slicing through enough tissue to cause a rapid and steady
flow of blood from the wound. I rinsed the accumulated
blood from my hand, positioned the wound over the sink
drain, and waited fro about a minute for the blood to slow
to a drip. rinsed the finger again, let the cut "knit" for
another minute or so, and went back to work, no stitches,
no anti-biotics, no pain-killers, and no time wasted
waiting to be seen in an emergency room. Even now, about
twelve hours later, I can flex the finger without pulling
the wound opening and oozing. As with every other such cut
I have had for the past several years, there is only a
tiny amount of inflammation immediately next to the cut,
and there is never any pus or discharge indicative of
infection, regardless of the location. Please explain to
me why this is so, you who are so much wiser than I... ;^]

Quoted message said:

Mercy me, what made you so angry?????

Being told I am wrong despite starkly obvious evidence to
the contrary...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"alternative" bent to get off the "ride" while they
still can.

Quoted message said:

I am sorry, but alternative medicine saved my live.

Why are you sorry? Isn't it clear from the language of my
prior post that I am not promoting "mainstream" medicine?
Do you understand what I meant by "alternatives" in the
paragraph you reponded to? Do you automatically respond
with such knee-jerk simplicity to all stimulus? Am I
dealing with the functional equivalent of a paramecium? I
have an "enquiring" mind, I want to know... ;^]

Quoted message said:

You OK???

Yes, and no. Obviously... ;^]

Quoted message said:

I have helped others and will continue.

Helped them how, assisted suicide?

--
_o Kristofer Dale, _ \<,_ ragged
individualist, _____( )/ ( )_____ statistic at
large...

p.s. Learn and live, vitaletherapeutics.orgvitaletherapeutics.orgOpen ↗

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Kristofer D. Dale" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message -"]news:[email hidden]-
sgroups.com...

Quoted message said:

Jan said:

Hardly.

I also have the knowledge to be right. Let me give you
an example. Today I was chipping some plaster away from
a ceiling that had a piece of sheet-metal ductwork
protruding through, and I happened to brush past the
metal edge quickly and made a nice clean surgically
precise cut in and back under the knuckle of my left
middle finger, slicing through enough tissue to cause a
rapid and steady flow of blood from the wound. I rinsed
the accumulated blood from my hand, positioned the wound
over the sink drain, and waited fro about a minute for
the blood to slow to a drip. rinsed the finger again,
let the cut "knit" for another minute or so, and went
back to work, no stitches, no anti-biotics, no pain-
killers, and no time wasted waiting to be seen in an
emergency room. Even now, about twelve hours later, I
can flex the finger without pulling the wound opening
and oozing. As with every other such cut I have had for
the past several years, there is only a tiny amount of
inflammation immediately next to the cut, and there is
never any pus or discharge indicative of infection,
regardless of the location. Please explain to me why
this is so, you who are so much wiser than I... ;^]

Sorry, the send button went off by itself before. I was
ruminating as to why this was thought to be exceptional.
Many clean wounds will heal well without infection and
without needing stitches, especially on well-vascularised
areas such the scalp and hands.

Peter Moran