Is There No End to the Supply of Idiot Mountain Bikers?

At 06:27 PM 4/20/04 -0700 said:

Ok,

Quoted message said:

You may not realize this, but the vast majority of mountain bikers are on your

side.

Not even CLOSE. Sentiment isn't enough. ACTIONS must match. Mountain biking is
the most destructive activity allowed in any of our parks.

Quoted message said:

They care a great deal about the environment, and are actively working to

protect it.

Quoted message said:

Have you ever actually thought what a MTB (not downhill) only trail would look

like? Heres a hint. 8-12 inches wide.

Impossible. Two bikes can't pass each other in that narrow space.

Quoted message said:

Adapting to the terrain, not making the terrain adapt to it. Natural features

like rocks, trees, etc. left in place. No steps carved into the mountainside.
Smooth.

Yeah, with V-shaped ruts.

Quoted message said:

How many bike only trails are there in most cities? (hint rhymes with gyro)

Of course.

Quoted message said:

Now, compare this to an equestrian or mixed use trail.

Irrelevant, since I don't advocate those.

Quoted message said:

4-8 feet wide. Steps carved anytime the slope goes over 20%. Rocks removed

and terrain adapted for equestrians and strollers. Horse and dog [censored]
everywhere. Trail either dusty or pitted all to hell. (take one look at any
equestrian trail and tell me Im wrong). Bikes do not require 8 feet to pass a
hiker. Only a horse does.

Quoted message said:

Which one of these has a greater effect on the environment?

Mountain bikers, who ENORMOUSLY outnumber equestrians.

Quoted message said:

Is 18too close for a biker and a hiker to pass? Sure, but its also too close

for two hikers to pass, especially if they are carrying packs.

There are no backpackers where bikes are allowed.

Quoted message said:

If a hiker steps off the trail to let a bike pass, there is absolutely no

difference from a hiker stepping off to let another hiker pass. The only reason
bikers would ride off trail to pass is if they were forced to by rude or unaware
hikers refusing to yield.

You are crazy. Hikers don't have to "yield"; they have the right of way!

Quoted message said:

Also, have you ever tried to pass a horse on an 18trail?

Quoted message said:

As far as bikes belonging on the pavement; not unless youre suicidal.

Mountain bikers may have a lot of injuries, but they have very few deaths.

Not true. I have heard of several, and I'm not looking for them.

Quoted message said:

Compare that to how many people die every week riding on the road. Too many

close calls are the exact reason I stopped riding on the road.

Irrelevant, since they don't go to the same places. You can't mountain bike to
the grocery store.

Quoted message said:

There are millions of mountain bikers out there. Doesnt it make more sense to

fight urban sprawl, pollution, and horses than just randomly attacking each
other?

I don't attack anyone. I just tell the truth. That's what mountain bikers call
an "attack"!

Quoted message said:

Ben

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

At 06:27 PM 4/20/04 -0700 said:

Ok,

Quoted message said:

You may not realize this, but the vast majority of mountain bikers are on

your

Quoted message said:

side.

Not even CLOSE. Sentiment isn't enough. ACTIONS must match. Mountain

biking is

Quoted message said:

the most destructive activity allowed in any of our parks.

Lie.

Mike Vandeman said:

Quoted message said:

Have you ever actually thought what a MTB (not downhill) only trail
would look

like? Heres a hint. 8-12 inches wide.
Impossible. Two bikes can't pass each other in that narrow space.

Lie

--

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:00:06 GMT, Ken in KC <[email hidden]>
wrote:

..Mike Vandeman wrote:
.. > >Have you ever actually thought what a MTB (not downhill) only trail
.. > >would look
.. > like? Heres a hint. 8-12 inches wide.
.. > Impossible. Two bikes can't pass each other in that narrow space.
..
..
..
..Lie

It's true. It's physically impossible for two bikers to pass each other on a 12
inch trail.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Mike Vandeman said:

It's true. It's physically impossible for two bikers to pass each
other on a 12 inch trail.

BWAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHA.

(But rather than call you a LIAR, DUH!, I think it's just a case of utter
blind stupidity.)

Bill "do your research, do(r)c" S.

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:33:02 GMT, " S o r n i" <[email hidden]> wrote:

..Mike Vandeman wrote:
..
..> It's true. It's physically impossible for two bikers to pass each
..> other on a 12 inch trail.
..
..BWAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHA.
..
..(But rather than call you a LIAR, DUH!, I think it's just a case of utter
..blind stupidity.)

Then explain.

..Bill "do your research, do(r)c" S.
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Mike Vandeman said:

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:33:02 GMT, " S o r n i"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

.Mike Vandeman wrote:
.
.> It's true. It's physically impossible for two bikers to pass each
.> other on a 12 inch trail.
.
.BWAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHA.
.
.(But rather than call you a LIAR, DUH!, I think it's just a case of
utter .blind stupidity.)

Then explain.

.Bill "do your research, do(r)c" S.

Well first of all, that's why I said do your research.

However, I realize that's one of your weakest skills, so... 🙂

Experienced, responsible mountain bikers avoid riding off-trail at all
costs. Therefore, when two riders approach each other on a narrow sliver of
singletrack (our most cherished of terrains), one will invariably yield to
the other by coming to a stop, putting the outside foot down, and leaning
the bike to the right to allow the other rider to pass safely. (Usually the
uphill cyclist yields to the lower one, as the latter is working harder and
the former can restart easier.)

I can understand why you can't grasp this concept: after all, hikers like
to walk TWO AND THREE ABREAST -- thus widening trails until they're
effectively jeep roads.

Bill "don't expect you to admit I'm right" S.

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 06:11:45 GMT, " S o r n i" <[email hidden]> wrote:

..Mike Vandeman wrote:
..> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:33:02 GMT, " S o r n i"
..> <[email hidden]> wrote:
..>
..> .Mike Vandeman wrote:
..> .
..> .> It's true. It's physically impossible for two bikers to pass each
..> .> other on a 12 inch trail.
..> .
..> .BWAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHA.
..> .
..> .(But rather than call you a LIAR, DUH!, I think it's just a case of
..> utter .blind stupidity.)
..>
..> Then explain.
..>
..> .Bill "do your research, do(r)c" S.
..
..Well first of all, that's why I said do your research.
..
..However, I realize that's one of your weakest skills, so... 🙂
..
..Experienced, responsible mountain bikers avoid riding off-trail at all
..costs. Therefore, when two riders approach each other on a narrow sliver of
..singletrack (our most cherished of terrains), one will invariably yield to
..the other by coming to a stop, putting the outside foot down, and leaning
..the bike to the right to allow the other rider to pass safely.

So, AS I SAID, you can't pass each other ON THE TRAIL without going off-trail.
What a liar!

(Usually the
..uphill cyclist yields to the lower one, as the latter is working harder and
..the former can restart easier.)
..
..I can understand why you can't grasp this concept: after all, hikers like
..to walk TWO AND THREE ABREAST -- thus widening trails until they're
..effectively jeep roads.

I have never seen that, except on roads. On narrow trails, it makes no sense,
since it's much easier to walk on the trail. DUH! Learn to tell the truth, for
once.

..Bill "don't expect you to admit I'm right" S.
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Mike Vandeman said:

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 06:11:45 GMT, " S o r n i"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

.Mike Vandeman wrote:
.> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:33:02 GMT, " S o r n i"
.> <[email hidden]> wrote:
.>
.> .Mike Vandeman wrote:
.> .
.> .> It's true. It's physically impossible for two bikers to pass
each .> .> other on a 12 inch trail.
.> .
.> .BWAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHA.
.> .
.> .(But rather than call you a LIAR, DUH!, I think it's just a case
of .> utter .blind stupidity.)
.>
.> Then explain.
.>
.> .Bill "do your research, do(r)c" S.
.
.Well first of all, that's why I said do your research.
.
.However, I realize that's one of your weakest skills, so... 🙂
.
.Experienced, responsible mountain bikers avoid riding off-trail at
all .costs. Therefore, when two riders approach each other on a
narrow sliver of .singletrack (our most cherished of terrains), one
will invariably yield to .the other by coming to a stop, putting the
outside foot down, and leaning .the bike to the right to allow the
other rider to pass safely.

So, AS I SAID, you can't pass each other ON THE TRAIL without going
off-trail. What a liar!

Where did I say anything about "going off-trail", liar (imbecile, jerk-face,
incomprehendonesshood)?!? I specifically pointed out that we AVOID going
off trail at all costs ("we" being experienced, responsible riders -- not
the occasional doofus who doesn't know any better)...

Quoted message said:

(Usually the
.uphill cyclist yields to the lower one, as the latter is working
harder and .the former can restart easier.)
.
.I can understand why you can't grasp this concept: after all,
hikers like .to walk TWO AND THREE ABREAST -- thus widening trails
until they're .effectively jeep roads.

I have never seen that, except on roads. On narrow trails, it makes
no sense, since it's much easier to walk on the trail. DUH! Learn to
tell the truth, for once.

LIAR! I *know* you've seen hikers walking side-by-side on narrow trails,
because IT'S OBVIOUS! DUH!!! (They do it in order to talk to each other;
perhaps no one wants to listen to YOU?!?)

Quoted message said:

.Bill "don't expect you to admit I'm right" S.

Bill "see, I knew it" S.

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:17:16 GMT, " S o r n i" <[email hidden]> wrote:

..Mike Vandeman wrote:
..> On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 06:11:45 GMT, " S o r n i"
..> <[email hidden]> wrote:
..>
..> .Mike Vandeman wrote:
..> .> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:33:02 GMT, " S o r n i"
..> .> <[email hidden]> wrote:
..> .>
..> .> .Mike Vandeman wrote:
..> .> .
..> .> .> It's true. It's physically impossible for two bikers to pass
..> each .> .> other on a 12 inch trail.
..> .> .
..> .> .BWAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHA.
..> .> .
..> .> .(But rather than call you a LIAR, DUH!, I think it's just a case
..> of .> utter .blind stupidity.)
..> .>
..> .> Then explain.
..> .>
..> .> .Bill "do your research, do(r)c" S.
..> .
..> .Well first of all, that's why I said do your research.
..> .
..> .However, I realize that's one of your weakest skills, so... 🙂
..> .
..> .Experienced, responsible mountain bikers avoid riding off-trail at
..> all .costs. Therefore, when two riders approach each other on a
..> narrow sliver of .singletrack (our most cherished of terrains), one
..> will invariably yield to .the other by coming to a stop, putting the
..> outside foot down, and leaning .the bike to the right to allow the
..> other rider to pass safely.
..>
..> So, AS I SAID, you can't pass each other ON THE TRAIL without going
..> off-trail. What a liar!
..
..Where did I say anything about "going off-trail",

"putting the outside foot down". You weren't HONEST enough to say "going
off-trail". Mountain bikers never are.

liar (imbecile, jerk-face,
..incomprehendonesshood)?!? I specifically pointed out that we AVOID going
..off trail at all costs ("we" being experienced, responsible riders -- not
..the occasional doofus who doesn't know any better)...
..>
..> (Usually the
..> .uphill cyclist yields to the lower one, as the latter is working
..> harder and .the former can restart easier.)
..> .
..> .I can understand why you can't grasp this concept: after all,
..> hikers like .to walk TWO AND THREE ABREAST -- thus widening trails
..> until they're .effectively jeep roads.
..>
..> I have never seen that, except on roads. On narrow trails, it makes
..> no sense, since it's much easier to walk on the trail. DUH! Learn to
..> tell the truth, for once.
..
..LIAR! I *know* you've seen hikers walking side-by-side on narrow trails,
..because IT'S OBVIOUS! DUH!!! (They do it in order to talk to each other;
..perhaps no one wants to listen to YOU?!?)

BS. We walk single-file,and are able to talk just fine. DUH!

..> .Bill "don't expect you to admit I'm right" S.
..
..Bill "see, I knew it" S.
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:17:16 GMT, " S o r n i" <[email hidden]> wrote:

.Mike Vandeman wrote:
.> On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 06:11:45 GMT, " S o r n i"
.> <[email hidden]> wrote:
.>
.> .Mike Vandeman wrote:
.> .> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:33:02 GMT, " S o r n i"
.> .> <[email hidden]> wrote:
.> .>
.> .> .Mike Vandeman wrote:
.> .> .
.> .> .> It's true. It's physically impossible for two bikers to pass
.> each .> .> other on a 12 inch trail.
.> .> .
.> .> .BWAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHA.
.> .> .
.> .> .(But rather than call you a LIAR, DUH!, I think it's just a case
.> of .> utter .blind stupidity.)
.> .>
.> .> Then explain.
.> .>
.> .> .Bill "do your research, do(r)c" S.
.> .
.> .Well first of all, that's why I said do your research.
.> .
.> .However, I realize that's one of your weakest skills, so... 🙂
.> .
.> .Experienced, responsible mountain bikers avoid riding off-trail at
.> all .costs. Therefore, when two riders approach each other on a
.> narrow sliver of .singletrack (our most cherished of terrains), one
.> will invariably yield to .the other by coming to a stop, putting the
.> outside foot down, and leaning .the bike to the right to allow the
.> other rider to pass safely.
.>
.> So, AS I SAID, you can't pass each other ON THE TRAIL without going
.> off-trail. What a liar!
.
.Where did I say anything about "going off-trail",

"putting the outside foot down". You weren't HONEST enough to say "going
off-trail". Mountain bikers never are.

liar (imbecile, jerk-face,
.incomprehendonesshood)?!? I specifically pointed out that we AVOID going
.off trail at all costs ("we" being experienced, responsible riders -- not
.the occasional doofus who doesn't know any better)...
.>
.> (Usually the
.> .uphill cyclist yields to the lower one, as the latter is working
.> harder and .the former can restart easier.)
.> .
.> .I can understand why you can't grasp this concept: after all,
.> hikers like .to walk TWO AND THREE ABREAST -- thus widening trails
.> until they're .effectively jeep roads.
.>
.> I have never seen that, except on roads. On narrow trails, it makes
.> no sense, since it's much easier to walk on the trail. DUH! Learn to
.> tell the truth, for once.
.
.LIAR! I *know* you've seen hikers walking side-by-side on narrow trails,
.because IT'S OBVIOUS! DUH!!! (They do it in order to talk to each other;
.perhaps no one wants to listen to YOU?!?)

BS. We walk single-file,and are able to talk just fine. DUH!

You know, as Bill states, yes, as 2 bikes meet each other on the
trail, the uphill rider stops, places one foot offtrail and allows
the other rider to pass. So that's a total of 1 foot placed offtrail.
W

When hikers meet on a 8 to 12 inch trail, you mean to tell me that
they don't step off trail at all? Do they do a hiker hug-and-spin
around each other and keep going?

I got $ saying the advanced hikers take as many or (gasp) even more
steps off trail than the advanced mountain biker creates.

enjoy...
nate

Quoted message said:

.> .Bill "don't expect you to admit I'm right" S.
.
.Bill "see, I knew it" S.
.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

" S o r n i" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Vandeman said:

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 06:11:45 GMT, " S o r n i"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

.Mike Vandeman wrote:
.> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:33:02 GMT, " S o r n i"
.> <[email hidden]> wrote:
.>
.> .Mike Vandeman wrote:
.> .
.> .> It's true. It's physically impossible for two bikers to pass
each .> .> other on a 12 inch trail.
.> .
.> .BWAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHA.
.> .
.> .(But rather than call you a LIAR, DUH!, I think it's just a case
of .> utter .blind stupidity.)
.>
.> Then explain.
.>
.> .Bill "do your research, do(r)c" S.
.
.Well first of all, that's why I said do your research.
.
.However, I realize that's one of your weakest skills, so... 🙂
.
.Experienced, responsible mountain bikers avoid riding off-trail at
all .costs. Therefore, when two riders approach each other on a
narrow sliver of .singletrack (our most cherished of terrains), one
will invariably yield to .the other by coming to a stop, putting the
outside foot down, and leaning .the bike to the right to allow the
other rider to pass safely.

So, AS I SAID, you can't pass each other ON THE TRAIL without going
off-trail. What a liar!

Where did I say anything about "going off-trail", liar (imbecile,

jerk-face,

Quoted message said:

incomprehendonesshood)?!? I specifically pointed out that we AVOID going
off trail at all costs ("we" being experienced, responsible riders -- not
the occasional doofus who doesn't know any better)...

Quoted message said:

(Usually the
.uphill cyclist yields to the lower one, as the latter is working
harder and .the former can restart easier.)
.
.I can understand why you can't grasp this concept: after all,
hikers like .to walk TWO AND THREE ABREAST -- thus widening trails
until they're .effectively jeep roads.

I have never seen that, except on roads. On narrow trails, it makes
no sense, since it's much easier to walk on the trail. DUH! Learn to
tell the truth, for once.

LIAR! I *know* you've seen hikers walking side-by-side on narrow trails,
because IT'S OBVIOUS! DUH!!! (They do it in order to talk to each other;
perhaps no one wants to listen to YOU?!?)

Quoted message said:

.Bill "don't expect you to admit I'm right" S.

Bill "see, I knew it" S.

Bill,

You're killing me. Why do you bother?

Marty

On 27 Apr 2004 12:22:44 -0700, [email hidden] (Nate) wrote:

..Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
..> On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:17:16 GMT, " S o r n i" <[email hidden]> wrote:
..>
..> .Mike Vandeman wrote:
..> .> On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 06:11:45 GMT, " S o r n i"
..> .> <[email hidden]> wrote:
..> .>
..> .> .Mike Vandeman wrote:
..> .> .> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:33:02 GMT, " S o r n i"
..> .> .> <[email hidden]> wrote:
..> .> .>
..> .> .> .Mike Vandeman wrote:
..> .> .> .
..> .> .> .> It's true. It's physically impossible for two bikers to pass
..> .> each .> .> other on a 12 inch trail.
..> .> .> .
..> .> .> .BWAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHA.
..> .> .> .
..> .> .> .(But rather than call you a LIAR, DUH!, I think it's just a case
..> .> of .> utter .blind stupidity.)
..> .> .>
..> .> .> Then explain.
..> .> .>
..> .> .> .Bill "do your research, do(r)c" S.
..> .> .
..> .> .Well first of all, that's why I said do your research.
..> .> .
..> .> .However, I realize that's one of your weakest skills, so... 🙂
..> .> .
..> .> .Experienced, responsible mountain bikers avoid riding off-trail at
..> .> all .costs. Therefore, when two riders approach each other on a
..> .> narrow sliver of .singletrack (our most cherished of terrains), one
..> .> will invariably yield to .the other by coming to a stop, putting the
..> .> outside foot down, and leaning .the bike to the right to allow the
..> .> other rider to pass safely.
..> .>
..> .> So, AS I SAID, you can't pass each other ON THE TRAIL without going
..> .> off-trail. What a liar!
..> .
..> .Where did I say anything about "going off-trail",
..>
..> "putting the outside foot down". You weren't HONEST enough to say "going
..> off-trail". Mountain bikers never are.
..>
..> liar (imbecile, jerk-face,
..> .incomprehendonesshood)?!? I specifically pointed out that we AVOID going
..> .off trail at all costs ("we" being experienced, responsible riders -- not
..> .the occasional doofus who doesn't know any better)...
..> .>
..> .> (Usually the
..> .> .uphill cyclist yields to the lower one, as the latter is working
..> .> harder and .the former can restart easier.)
..> .> .
..> .> .I can understand why you can't grasp this concept: after all,
..> .> hikers like .to walk TWO AND THREE ABREAST -- thus widening trails
..> .> until they're .effectively jeep roads.
..> .>
..> .> I have never seen that, except on roads. On narrow trails, it makes
..> .> no sense, since it's much easier to walk on the trail. DUH! Learn to
..> .> tell the truth, for once.
..> .
..> .LIAR! I *know* you've seen hikers walking side-by-side on narrow trails,
..> .because IT'S OBVIOUS! DUH!!! (They do it in order to talk to each other;
..> .perhaps no one wants to listen to YOU?!?)
..>
..> BS. We walk single-file,and are able to talk just fine. DUH!
..>
..You know, as Bill states, yes, as 2 bikes meet each other on the
..trail, the uphill rider stops, places one foot offtrail and allows
..the other rider to pass. So that's a total of 1 foot placed offtrail.

So all those trails widened by mountain bikers were an OPTICAL ILLUSION? Right.

.. W
..
..When hikers meet on a 8 to 12 inch trail, you mean to tell me that
..they don't step off trail at all? Do they do a hiker hug-and-spin
..around each other and keep going?
..
..I got $ saying the advanced hikers take as many or (gasp) even more
..steps off trail than the advanced mountain biker creates.
..
..enjoy...
..nate
..> .> .Bill "don't expect you to admit I'm right" S.
..> .
..> .Bill "see, I knew it" S.
..> .
..>
..> ===
..> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
..> humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
..> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
..>
..> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande