Paging Mr. Habanero

JG said:

Hey Dude, how's that 29" Disc (Karate Monkey inspired) MTB design coming
along?

Mark's succumbing to hype? Bummer.

Greg

G.T. said:

JG said:

Hey Dude, how's that 29" Disc (Karate Monkey inspired) MTB design
coming along?

Quoted message said:

Mark's succumbing to hype? Bummer.

No I've ridden them and like them. NOW I'm trying to get him to build a
bike I can't kill.. The Beer'Cross was designed to be able to be
switched over to 29" if I so desired, but it rides SOOOO sweet that I
don't want to take the rigid 'cross forks off and put a suspension up
there... and why bother when I can just buy a new bike ;-) and the
wheelbase is a tad too long to shoot the tight twisty single track as
well as toe overlap could use to be decreased by smidge.

--
John G. in Memphis, TN Have a nice......... night.
http://www.shavings.net/images/Memphis/reflect_john.jpg

G.T. said:

JG said:

Hey Dude, how's that 29" Disc (Karate Monkey inspired) MTB design
coming along?

Mark's succumbing to hype? Bummer.

Greg

Sounds to me like he's listening to consumer demand. Not that it's that big,
but neither are many of the other niche markets he serves.

Matt

"MattB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

G.T. said:

JG said:

Hey Dude, how's that 29" Disc (Karate Monkey inspired) MTB design
coming along?

Mark's succumbing to hype? Bummer.

Greg

Sounds to me like he's listening to consumer demand. Not that it's that

big,

Quoted message said:

but neither are many of the other niche markets he serves.

It's just funny that when they called them like they were, 700c, nobody
bought them because they sounded too roadie. When they were called 28ers I
guess they just weren't big enough because no one bought them. But now that
they're 29ers, hot mama, they're the best thing since the Hite-Rite!

Greg

G.T. said:

"MattB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

G.T. said:

JG wrote:
> Hey Dude, how's that 29" Disc (Karate Monkey inspired) MTB design
> coming along?
>

Mark's succumbing to hype? Bummer.

Greg

Sounds to me like he's listening to consumer demand. Not that it's
that big, but neither are many of the other niche markets he serves.

It's just funny that when they called them like they were, 700c,
nobody bought them because they sounded too roadie. When they were
called 28ers I guess they just weren't big enough because no one
bought them. But now that they're 29ers, hot mama, they're the best
thing since the Hite-Rite!

Greg

Yes, very true. They are basically a different take on a 'cross bike (which
I also think are pretty cool in their niche).
I'm making no case for their worth here, but there's no denying people seem
to like and buy them. So that's worth something to a company making and
selling bikes. I'm all for cool little business making good business
decisions. It's the little guys that keep the industry interesting and
funky.

And the Hite-Rite was tha' shiznit! I wanted one, but I was holding out for
the purple anodized "Pro" version and it never came. It would have
complemented my triangular bag/shoulder pad thingie so nicely!

Matt

G.T. said:

JG said:

Hey Dude, how's that 29" Disc (Karate Monkey inspired)
MTB design coming along?

Mark's succumbing to hype? Bummer.

So you've ridden one, and know personally that it's just marketing BS?

Or you haven't, and you're spamming out your own hype?
--
Tom Purvis - http://www.arkansasvalley.net/tpurvis/
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."-Bertrand Russell

Tom Purvis said:

G.T. said:

JG said:

Hey Dude, how's that 29" Disc (Karate Monkey inspired)
MTB design coming along?

Mark's succumbing to hype? Bummer.

So you've ridden one, and know personally that it's just marketing BS?

Or you haven't, and you're spamming out your own hype?

I rode one loooooooooooooooong ago.

Greg

"MattB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I'm making no case for their worth here, but there's no denying people seem
to like and buy them. So that's worth something to a company making and
selling bikes.

It's a niche market at best.

Quoted message said:

I'm all for cool little business making good business
decisions. It's the little guys that keep the industry interesting and
funky.

Me too, but the marketing attempts to mainstream this niche are sad at best.

JD

JD said:

the marketing attempts to mainstream this niche are sad at best.

Doesn't it suck to be so cool that you are cool before cool was cool,
and when it does become cool you look like just another fool, following
the fools.

--
--
John G. in Memphis, TN Have a nice......... night.
http://www.shavings.net/images/Memphis/reflect_john.jpg

(JD) said:

... the marketing attempts to mainstream this niche are sad at best.

What are they JD?

Honestly, I must be more out of touch than I thought, because I
don't really see *anybody* marketing "this niche". The majors
are almost unanimous in their lack of support for bigwheel. Fisher
is the only one. And it looked like GF was going to drop the whole
thing last winter, until some of their resellers screamed about it.

Here are some quotes from a recent TwentySix magazine article:

"The 29er is a 700c wheel, which is a bigger standard than
a 26-inch wheel. Just a handful of dealers really understand
it. When people come into a shop and see two 29ers and 40
26-inch bikes then the 29ers just look oddball." -Gary Fisher

"The 29-inch wheel probably won't take off because they look
bizzarre. In our industry, if something doesn't propose an
immediate value then we just pass it off. Today, we don't
really have a dominant company that can set wheel trends.
It takes years to develop standards. That is why the
26-inch wheel will remain the constant." -Zach Taylor,
VP Sales & Marketing, Sun Ringlé

"We don't think of it as a 29-inch wheel, we think of it
as a 700c. It has weight issues, frame fit issues and tire
availability among other things. Some of our racers use
700c rims on mountain bikes but for us the bulk of riders
are best served by 26-inch wheels. For most people, 26-inch
wheels offer the best balance of durability, size of tire,
weight and compatibility." -Chris Zigmont,
Marketing Director, Mavîc

Not a whole bunch of enthusiasm there.

From where I sit, this is the most grassroots niche I've ever seen.
The only enthusiastic supporters are outfits like Moots, IF, Surly,
Kelly, Willets, Strong, and people like Charlie Cunningham, Steve
Potts, Don McClung, Mike Curiak... no big market-share owners
nor marketing powerhouses that I know of are promoting it.

How about showing me an example of this relentless marketing
onslaught that's got you so hot and bothered.
--
Tom Purvis - http://www.arkansasvalley.net/tpurvis/
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."-Bertrand Russell

"Tom Purvis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(JD) said:

... the marketing attempts to mainstream this niche are sad at best.

What are they JD?

Honestly, I must be more out of touch than I thought, because I
don't really see *anybody* marketing "this niche". The majors
are almost unanimous in their lack of support for bigwheel. Fisher
is the only one. And it looked like GF was going to drop the whole
thing last winter, until some of their resellers screamed about it.

Here are some quotes from a recent TwentySix magazine article:

Right. "26" magazine - I wonder which direction they're gonna lean on this
issue.

Quoted message said:

"The 29er is a 700c wheel, which is a bigger standard than
a 26-inch wheel. Just a handful of dealers really understand
it. When people come into a shop and see two 29ers and 40
26-inch bikes then the 29ers just look oddball." -Gary Fisher

That's not lack of support, that's GF shifting responsibility re:poor 29"
sales to the LBS.

Quoted message said:

That is why the
26-inch wheel will remain the constant." -Zach Taylor,
VP Sales & Marketing, Sun Ringlé

For most people, 26-inch
wheels offer the best balance of durability, size of tire,
weight and compatibility." -Chris Zigmont,
Marketing Director, Mavîc

Not a whole bunch of enthusiasm there.

Really! Two reps from leading rim manufacturers don't want to start
developing, testing, and refining a whole new line of products in a market
that isn't yet established? I'm shocked. Usually, companies dive right in
where profits aren't guaranteed.

Quoted message said:

From where I sit, this is the most grassroots niche I've ever seen.
The only enthusiastic supporters are outfits like Moots, IF, Surly,
Kelly, Willets, Strong,

So, frame makers dig the change and wheel builders don't. Prob because
frame makers need to have the "next big thing" because, deep down, all the
mass produced (GF, Giant, Speciallized, Trek, etc.) aluminum frames are the
same damn boring thing. What separates a Tassjara from a 6700 from a
whatever-the-hell-Giant-is-$700? Not much. If one guy (one tall, loud,
egomanical guy) has somehting the others don't, well, maybe he'll put
himself a step ahead of the others.

Quoted message said:

How about showing me an example of this relentless marketing
onslaught that's got you so hot and bothered.

I think your evidence was skewed, but the point is right: 29" is grassroots.
Like "real" cyclocross bikes, people that want one want one, those that
don't won't ever understand/research/etc. But yeah, I find the idea of a
"29" marketing craze" a bit silly.

Chris

"JG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

JD said:

the marketing attempts to mainstream this niche are sad at best.

Doesn't it suck to be so cool that you are cool before cool was cool,
and when it does become cool you look like just another fool, following
the fools.

The part after "and" is a non-sequitur.

Greg

"Tom Purvis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(JD) said:

... the marketing attempts to mainstream this niche are sad at best.

What are they JD?

Honestly, I must be more out of touch than I thought, because I
don't really see *anybody* marketing "this niche". The majors
are almost unanimous in their lack of support for bigwheel. Fisher
is the only one. And it looked like GF was going to drop the whole
thing last winter, until some of their resellers screamed about it.

Here are some quotes from a recent TwentySix magazine article:

"The 29er is a 700c wheel, which is a bigger standard than
a 26-inch wheel. Just a handful of dealers really understand
it. When people come into a shop and see two 29ers and 40
26-inch bikes then the 29ers just look oddball." -Gary Fisher

"The 29-inch wheel probably won't take off because they look
bizzarre. In our industry, if something doesn't propose an
immediate value then we just pass it off. Today, we don't
really have a dominant company that can set wheel trends.
It takes years to develop standards. That is why the
26-inch wheel will remain the constant." -Zach Taylor,
VP Sales & Marketing, Sun Ringlé

"We don't think of it as a 29-inch wheel, we think of it
as a 700c. It has weight issues, frame fit issues and tire
availability among other things. Some of our racers use
700c rims on mountain bikes but for us the bulk of riders
are best served by 26-inch wheels. For most people, 26-inch
wheels offer the best balance of durability, size of tire,
weight and compatibility." -Chris Zigmont,
Marketing Director, Mavîc

Not a whole bunch of enthusiasm there.

From where I sit, this is the most grassroots niche I've ever seen.
The only enthusiastic supporters are outfits like Moots, IF, Surly,
Kelly, Willets, Strong, and people like Charlie Cunningham, Steve
Potts, Don McClung, Mike Curiak... no big market-share owners
nor marketing powerhouses that I know of are promoting it.

How about showing me an example of this relentless marketing
onslaught that's got you so hot and bothered.

Relentess marketing by the companies you mentioned because, 1) they can only
sell so many 26" wheeled mtn bikes to their existing customers, and 2) they
want to take on the giants by selling something "different". That's hardly
"grassroots".

Greg

[email hidden] (Tom Purvis) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(JD) said:

... the marketing attempts to mainstream this niche are sad at best.

What are they JD?

Honestly, I must be more out of touch than I thought, because I
don't really see *anybody* marketing "this niche". The majors
are almost unanimous in their lack of support for bigwheel. Fisher
is the only one. And it looked like GF was going to drop the whole
thing last winter, until some of their resellers screamed about it.

Here are some quotes from a recent TwentySix magazine article:

"The 29er is a 700c wheel, which is a bigger standard than
a 26-inch wheel. Just a handful of dealers really understand
it. When people come into a shop and see two 29ers and 40
26-inch bikes then the 29ers just look oddball." -Gary Fisher

"The 29-inch wheel probably won't take off because they look
bizzarre. In our industry, if something doesn't propose an
immediate value then we just pass it off. Today, we don't
really have a dominant company that can set wheel trends.
It takes years to develop standards. That is why the
26-inch wheel will remain the constant." -Zach Taylor,
VP Sales & Marketing, Sun Ringlé

"We don't think of it as a 29-inch wheel, we think of it
as a 700c. It has weight issues, frame fit issues and tire
availability among other things. Some of our racers use
700c rims on mountain bikes but for us the bulk of riders
are best served by 26-inch wheels. For most people, 26-inch
wheels offer the best balance of durability, size of tire,
weight and compatibility." -Chris Zigmont,
Marketing Director, Mavîc

Not a whole bunch of enthusiasm there.

From where I sit, this is the most grassroots niche I've ever seen.
The only enthusiastic supporters are outfits like Moots, IF, Surly,
Kelly, Willets, Strong, and people like Charlie Cunningham, Steve
Potts, Don McClung, Mike Curiak... no big market-share owners
nor marketing powerhouses that I know of are promoting it.

How about showing me an example of this relentless marketing
onslaught that's got you so hot and bothered.

It would seem you are the hot and bothered one, Tom.

Maybe you should move on: http://forums.mtbr.com/forumdisplay.php?f=61

JD namedropping does not suit you either

G.T. said:

Tom Purvis said:

(JD) said:

... the marketing attempts to mainstream this niche are sad at best.

What are they JD?

Honestly, I must be more out of touch than I thought, because I
don't really see *anybody* marketing "this niche". The majors
are almost unanimous in their lack of support for bigwheel. Fisher
is the only one. And it looked like GF was going to drop the whole
thing last winter, until some of their resellers screamed about it...

...From where I sit, this is the most grassroots niche I've ever seen.
The only enthusiastic supporters are outfits like Moots, IF, Surly,
Kelly, Willets, Strong, and people like Charlie Cunningham, Steve
Potts, Don McClung, Mike Curiak... no big market-share owners
nor marketing powerhouses that I know of are promoting it.

How about showing me an example of this relentless marketing
onslaught that's got you so hot and bothered.

Relentess marketing by the companies you mentioned because, 1) they can only
sell so many 26" wheeled mtn bikes to their existing customers, and 2) they
want to take on the giants by selling something "different". That's hardly
"grassroots".

Huh?

So you mean Surly is keeping you from getting any sleep because of their
loud, shrill marketing campaign?

What I'm saying is, it's not a major marketing push, it's grassroots.

And what you're saying is... what are you saying?

Please SHOW ME some of the marketing that is being shoved down your throat.
--
Tom Purvis - http://www.arkansasvalley.net/tpurvis/
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."-Bertrand Russell

"Tom Purvis" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Huh?

So you mean Surly is keeping you from getting any sleep because of their
loud, shrill marketing campaign?

What I'm saying is, it's not a major marketing push, it's grassroots.

And what you're saying is... what are you saying?

Please SHOW ME some of the marketing that is being shoved down your

throat.

As a dealer (though one who does not sell Fisher) I have had so little
marketing for 29 inch bikes that I'd honestly forgotten about them until
somebody brought them up in here. I haven't seen ads (in dealer lit.) for
tires, wheels, etc. A quick glance at our biggest supplier's catalogs shows
no 29 inch wheels, no 29 inch tires. They've got some slightly nicer 700c
hybrid stuff, but not the quality needed for a serious MTB.

Real quiet hype.

---
International Bicycle
5326 E Independence Blvd
Charlotte, NC 28212
http://intbike.com
704 535-5501

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.692 / Virus Database: 453 - Release Date: 5/28/04

(JD) said:

(Tom Purvis) said:

(JD) said:

... the marketing attempts to mainstream this niche are sad at best.

What are they JD?
...
How about showing me an example of this relentless marketing
onslaught that's got you so hot and bothered.

It would seem you are the hot and bothered one, Tom.

It would seem you are the one who is unable to answer my question.

I really don't care about what you think about 29ers. Honestly.
If I'm hot and bothered, it isn't about the technology.

You need to either A) get some actual *personal* experience with the
bigwheel, B) STFU about it, or C) admit that you're a hypocrit, and
then keep going on flapping your lips about something you don't
understand.

Aren't you the one constantly flaming newbies for talking about
technology that they have no actual personal experience with?

Quoted message said:

Maybe you should move on: http://forums.mtbr.com/forumdisplay.php?f=61

You can't actually argue effectively with me, so you think I should
move on?

Gosh JD, I think you may be ready for a job in the Bush Administration.
--
Tom Purvis - http://www.arkansasvalley.net/tpurvis/
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."-Bertrand Russell

[email hidden] (Tom Purvis) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

[snip]

Why do you care what JD thinks? It's your money, buy what you like and ride it.

Sheesh.
--
Jonesy "I'll take one red Trek, please..."

On 2004-06-03, Jonesy penned:

Quoted message said:

Why do you care what JD thinks? It's your money, buy what you like
and ride it.

Sheesh.

Stop with the crazy talk! Next, you'll be suggesting that pedal choice
is a matter of preference!

--
monique