incident on blackfriars bridge

davek said:

At the time of posting (5.55pm Monday), Blackfriars Bridge is closed due
to a cyclist having been knocked down by a bus.

I'm in the IPC tower at the moment, right next to the bridge, with a
bird's eye view of the accident scene. The victim has been covered over
with a red tarpaulin and none of the ambulance crew is administering any
kind of attention so you have to assume the worst.

For anyone familiar with the traffic markings on Blackfriars Bridge,
this incident probably won't come as a huge surprise.

On the northbound carriageway (where the incident happened), the left
hand lane is for traffic coming off the bridge and on to the Embankment.
There are two lanes to the right for traffic heading straight on at the
northern side of the bridge. There's a cycle lane (dotted lines) marked
between the left hand lane and the straight on lane. I think the bus hit
the cyclist as it pulled out of a bus stop in the left hand lane and was
crossing over the cycle lane so it could go straight ahead at the other
side of the bridge.

Nasty. I saw a weird one today...youth dragging himself + bike out from
under the front spoiler of a Volvo estate driven by blonde woman (I
didn't actually see the collision), large burly blokes and other drivers
appear and convince woman not to scarper, youth limps across road with
two crisped wheels, spends 2 mins trying to bend them into shape while
ignoring woman, walks up nearby steps, leaves trashed bike with bloke
sitting on wall in exchange for can of strong lager, walks off drinking
lager, blonde woman bemused.

Zog The Undeniable wrote:
ahead at the other

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

side of the bridge.

Nasty. I saw a weird one today...youth dragging himself + bike out from
under the front spoiler of a Volvo estate driven by blonde woman (I
didn't actually see the collision), large burly blokes and other drivers
appear and convince woman not to scarper, youth limps across road with
two crisped wheels, spends 2 mins trying to bend them into shape while
ignoring woman, walks up nearby steps, leaves trashed bike with bloke
sitting on wall in exchange for can of strong lager, walks off drinking
lager, blonde woman bemused.

Newly stolen bike?

Tony

Tony Raven said:

Newly stolen bike?

No, from the age and condition of it I think a can of Tennents Super was
a fair exchange!

"davek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

At the time of posting (5.55pm Monday), Blackfriars Bridge is closed due
to a cyclist having been knocked down by a bus.

I'm in the IPC tower at the moment, right next to the bridge, with a
bird's eye view of the accident scene. The victim has been covered over
with a red tarpaulin and none of the ambulance crew is administering any
kind of attention so you have to assume the worst.

For anyone familiar with the traffic markings on Blackfriars Bridge,
this incident probably won't come as a huge surprise.

On the northbound carriageway (where the incident happened), the left
hand lane is for traffic coming off the bridge and on to the Embankment.
There are two lanes to the right for traffic heading straight on at the
northern side of the bridge. There's a cycle lane (dotted lines) marked
between the left hand lane and the straight on lane. I think the bus hit
the cyclist as it pulled out of a bus stop in the left hand lane and was
crossing over the cycle lane so it could go straight ahead at the other
side of the bridge.

Sad, and bad. This is what I hate about cyclepaths - poorly designed
facilities really are worse than no facilities at all - and I can't think of
any I've seen that are preferable to the road, although I'm sure there exist
a minority that are. The vast majority are a disservice to cyclists, and
especially to novices who are most likely to use them. It's crazy - put in
schemes that put the people already most at risk at even more risk. That's
all most of them do.

Rich

"davek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

At the time of posting (5.55pm Monday), Blackfriars Bridge is closed due
to a cyclist having been knocked down by a bus.

I'm in the IPC tower at the moment, right next to the bridge, with a
bird's eye view of the accident scene. The victim has been covered over
with a red tarpaulin and none of the ambulance crew is administering any
kind of attention so you have to assume the worst.

For anyone familiar with the traffic markings on Blackfriars Bridge,
this incident probably won't come as a huge surprise.

On the northbound carriageway (where the incident happened), the left
hand lane is for traffic coming off the bridge and on to the Embankment.
There are two lanes to the right for traffic heading straight on at the
northern side of the bridge. There's a cycle lane (dotted lines) marked
between the left hand lane and the straight on lane. I think the bus hit
the cyclist as it pulled out of a bus stop in the left hand lane and was
crossing over the cycle lane so it could go straight ahead at the other
side of the bridge.

Damn. I often take that exact northbound route but it's, well, challenging .
It's deceptively steep, slowing you in the southern part and then concealing
you when you crest it. And the bus-stop is placed so that bus drivers must
find manouevering into the straight-ahead lane gets increasingly awkward the
longer it's delayed. IOW, that could have been me....

I suppose I'll learn more horrid details tomorrow.
--
Ben

Ben said:

Quoted message said:

On the northbound carriageway (where the incident happened), the left
hand lane is for traffic coming off the bridge and on to the Embankment.
There are two lanes to the right for traffic heading straight on at the
northern side of the bridge. There's a cycle lane (dotted lines) marked
between the left hand lane and the straight on lane. I think the bus hit
the cyclist as it pulled out of a bus stop in the left hand lane and was
crossing over the cycle lane so it could go straight ahead at the other
side of the bridge.

Damn. I often take that exact northbound route but it's, well, challenging .
It's deceptively steep, slowing you in the southern part and then concealing
you when you crest it. And the bus-stop is placed so that bus drivers must
find manouevering into the straight-ahead lane gets increasingly awkward the
longer it's delayed. IOW, that could have been me....

I was going to take that route around 7.15pm - but it was still closed
then. Knowing the cause just makes it worse.

Colin McKenzie

--
Why believe statistics?
Ignore them and you can believe the damned lies instead!

Colin McKenzie said:

I was going to take that route around 7.15pm - but it was still closed
then. Knowing the cause just makes it worse.

I cycled over there at about 10.45ish and didn't even see anything
to suggest anything had happened. Makes you think about the chances
of it being you next time. Their poor family. :-(

Simon

"Richard Goodman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Sad, and bad. This is what I hate about cyclepaths - poorly designed
facilities really are worse than no facilities at all - and I can't think of
any I've seen that are preferable to the road, although I'm sure there exist
a minority that are.

According to Simon Mason there are some decent ones in York. Nearly
all the ones I know in and around London are terrible; a select few
are just poor.

Quoted message said:

The vast majority are a disservice to cyclists, and
especially to novices who are most likely to use them. It's crazy - put in
schemes that put the people already most at risk at even more risk. That's
all most of them do.

Dangerous places, cycle lanes.

--
Dave...

Richard Goodman said:

This is what I hate about cyclepaths - poorly designed
facilities really are worse than no facilities at all - and I can't think of
any I've seen that are preferable to the road, although I'm sure there exist
a minority that are.

Hi Richard

I'd agree with that. The only one I can think of locally is
<http://makeashorterlink.com/?S2EC52448> The path is between the
roandabout where is says A2032 and Ferring village. The A259 dual
carrageway used to have two lanes in each direction; the west-bound
lane now has only one.

The "missing" lane now has cross hatches and a cycle area nearer to
the kerb. This road layout is between the A2032 map marking and the
first turn into Ferring (slightly NNE of the G in Ferring). There are
no cycle provisions between that turning and the next left turn into
the village and that's where they are really needed because of traffic
lights and residential turnings. (I'm assuming here that paths are
needed at all, of course.)

Between that second turn into Ferring and the next roundabout (north
of the F in Ferring) the road reverts to two lanes in each carrageway
and there is a lovely smooth pavement on the west bound side. This
path is shielded from the wind by a hedge. There are a few turnings
into garden centres and the like but one can see the road quite itself
from the pavement quite easily. Equally, traffic on the road has a
good view of bike, horses and peds on the path. Whether those on the
road react to the pavement traffic is a different matter.

There are many cycle "facilities" in Worthing and nearby but the one
I've mentioned is the only one that is reasnably well designed.

Having said that, the old, two lane dual carrageway worked well and
was perfectly safe, IMO.

When the first part of this facility was being constructed - the part
with the single lane - it was divided from the rest of the road by a
length of twine!! Not so easy to see in the dark, as I found out the
hard way. I almost but not quite rebounded off the taut twine into the
road.

James

<http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?X=510000.942268591&Y=100000.325339467&width=500&height=300&client=public&gride=509760.942268591&gridn=102249.325339467&srec=0&coordsys=gb&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&advanced=&local=&scale=100000&up.x=8&up.y=9>

I wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

According to Simon Mason there are some decent ones in York.

Oops. Hull of course. Apologies to both cities.

--
Dave...

I'm sure theres something to be done by way of rememberance.

28/05/04 6pm NFT

Simon Proven said:

Colin McKenzie said:

I was going to take that route around 7.15pm - but it was still closed
then. Knowing the cause just makes it worse.

I cycled over there at about 10.45ish and didn't even see anything
to suggest anything had happened. Makes you think about the chances
of it being you next time. Their poor family. :-(

Simon

Fair enough, but bus drivers don't pay attention to anything that's smaller
than the bus! I think that they are worst than taxi drivers and white van
drivers put together when it comes to attitudes towards cyclists! Of course
that they are exceptions, but I've learned to stay away from them whenever
possible.

--
Vivian
-------
"We learned more from a three minute record than we ever learned in school".
No Surrender

"Richard Goodman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"davek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

At the time of posting (5.55pm Monday), Blackfriars Bridge is closed due
to a cyclist having been knocked down by a bus.

I'm in the IPC tower at the moment, right next to the bridge, with a
bird's eye view of the accident scene. The victim has been covered over
with a red tarpaulin and none of the ambulance crew is administering any
kind of attention so you have to assume the worst.

For anyone familiar with the traffic markings on Blackfriars Bridge,
this incident probably won't come as a huge surprise.

On the northbound carriageway (where the incident happened), the left
hand lane is for traffic coming off the bridge and on to the Embankment.
There are two lanes to the right for traffic heading straight on at the
northern side of the bridge. There's a cycle lane (dotted lines) marked
between the left hand lane and the straight on lane. I think the bus hit
the cyclist as it pulled out of a bus stop in the left hand lane and was
crossing over the cycle lane so it could go straight ahead at the other
side of the bridge.

Sad, and bad. This is what I hate about cyclepaths - poorly designed
facilities really are worse than no facilities at all - and I can't think

of

Quoted message said:

any I've seen that are preferable to the road, although I'm sure there

exist

Quoted message said:

a minority that are. The vast majority are a disservice to cyclists, and
especially to novices who are most likely to use them. It's crazy - put

in

Quoted message said:

schemes that put the people already most at risk at even more risk.

That's

Quoted message said:

all most of them do.

Rich

davek said:

At the time of posting (5.55pm Monday), Blackfriars Bridge is closed due
to a cyclist having been knocked down by a bus.

I'm in the IPC tower at the moment, right next to the bridge, with a
bird's eye view of the accident scene. The victim has been covered over
with a red tarpaulin and none of the ambulance crew is administering any
kind of attention so you have to assume the worst.

For anyone familiar with the traffic markings on Blackfriars Bridge,
this incident probably won't come as a huge surprise.

On the northbound carriageway (where the incident happened), the left
hand lane is for traffic coming off the bridge and on to the Embankment.
There are two lanes to the right for traffic heading straight on at the
northern side of the bridge. There's a cycle lane (dotted lines) marked
between the left hand lane and the straight on lane. I think the bus hit
the cyclist as it pulled out of a bus stop in the left hand lane and was
crossing over the cycle lane so it could go straight ahead at the other
side of the bridge.

d.

--

The bridge is part of my morning commute. There are two "road death" signs
this morning on either pavement asking for witnesses/information. I
didn't get a chance to
read them and this thread now confirms what I feared.
This particular cycle lane is one of the worst and should be scrapped before
another cyclist is killed or seriously injured. It's the second in
15mths that I know of,
the last being the chinese waiter and grandfather who was killed by a
motorcyclist who
never stopped in feb2003.

davep

in message <[email hidden]>, masser

(') said:

I'm sure theres something to be done by way of rememberance.

How's about, as an act of rememberence, a letter to the Times or
Grauniad signed by several cyclists familiar with the junction,
explaining why this cycle lane arrangement is dangerous and suggesting
in the light of this death it be removed before someone else is killed?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; better than your average performing pineapple

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, masser

(') said:

I'm sure theres something to be done by way of rememberance.

How's about, as an act of rememberence, a letter to the Times or
Grauniad signed by several cyclists familiar with the junction,
explaining why this cycle lane arrangement is dangerous and suggesting
in the light of this death it be removed before someone else is killed?

The co-ordinator of City Cyclists sent round an email this morning
about this incident.
You could contact him via
http://www.citycyclists.org.uk/ to suggest this.

ps. Sympathy to this poor person, and the family left behind.

"Vivian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Fair enough, but bus drivers don't pay attention to anything that's

smaller

Quoted message said:

than the bus! I think that they are worst than taxi drivers and white van
drivers put together when it comes to attitudes towards cyclists! Of

course

Quoted message said:

that they are exceptions, but I've learned to stay away from them whenever
possible.

To be fair to bus drivers, I was a motorbike courier in London for a year or
so, and found the bus drivers to be very considerate and thoughtful. I don't
leave anything to chance, but it was nice to see that people were watching
out for me in their mirrors rather than just leaving it to me to avoid
getting squashed.

Taxi drivers (black cabs) are pretty rude, but they are professional and
usually know how to use the road safely, apart from the sudden U turns. The
worst offenders are probably white vans, because they can sometimes be
driven by people with less than the recommended level of driving ability,
aherm. (And don't start complaining, because I've done that too!)

Rick no@thanks opined the following...

Quoted message said:

To be fair to bus drivers, I was a motorbike courier in London for a year or
so, and found the bus drivers to be very considerate and thoughtful. I don't
leave anything to chance, but it was nice to see that people were watching
out for me in their mirrors rather than just leaving it to me to avoid
getting squashed.

The only time I've ever had to hop onto the kerb was when a bus pulled
up next to me at a roundabout and then started out before I did (I
couldn't see... there was a bus in the way). The cab was clear of me,
but the middle swung in and I had to abort the clip in and haul the bike
sideways to avoid being squashed. I chased him the best part of Queen's
Street (For those that know Edinburgh) but failed to catch him, which
was probably for the best as I was going for the emergency stop and a
fist fight.

To put that in perspective, with the exception of being brushed by a bus
once, I've had less grief from the numerous buses around town than from
the car drivers who fill in the gaps in the traffic! I've also noticed a
general change in driving standards recently. Might be a slight
reduction in the number of cars due to improved weather or a change in
the manner in which I cycle.

Quoted message said:

Taxi drivers (black cabs) are pretty rude, but they are professional and
usually know how to use the road safely, apart from the sudden U turns.

Taxi drivers were one of my biggest sources of annoyment, and their
driving style always leaves me embarrassed when I'm in one, but they too
are improving. I also once met a taxi driver who ranted about how badly
most other taxis treated cyclists as he drove me to the station. I wish
I'd got his number so that I could use him more often.

Quoted message said:

The
worst offenders are probably white vans, because they can sometimes be
driven by people with less than the recommended level of driving ability,
aherm. (And don't start complaining, because I've done that too!)

Agreed. The idea that having taken your test in a Corsa (Or similar
sized car) with "anti-blindspot" mirrors, a rearview mirror and similar
mod-cons, you can jump into a long wheelbase transit with a total weight
of up to 3.5T and handle it is farcical. As someone who is approaching a
training course on 16T trucks, I can't help but think how useful it
would have been to have had at least a days qualified instruction before
starting out driving vans.

Jon

In message <[email hidden]>, Rick
<no@thanks.?.invalid> writes

Quoted message said:

Taxi drivers (black cabs) are pretty rude, but they are professional and
usually know how to use the road safely, apart from the sudden U turns. The
worst offenders are probably white vans, because they can sometimes be
driven by people with less than the recommended level of driving ability

Taxis have given me most of my scariest moments, and usually when
they've spotted a ped waving to them from the pavement, but it doesn't
seem to register that I'm between them and their next fare.

Now when I see a ped waving, I assume a taxi is about to swoop in front
of me at any second.

However, I find Royal Mail van drivers amongst the most inconsiderate on
the roads.

--
congokid
Good restaurants in London? Number one on Google
http://congokid.com

congokid said:

However, I find Royal Mail van drivers amongst the most inconsiderate on
the roads.

And on pavements too :-(

John B