Fork recommendation

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dan Lissit said:

Thanks to a car door opened on my left in traffic, I find myself in
need of a new fork for my Jamis Coda. The Coda is a hybrid, and I'm
not interested in suspension. Where should I be looking for possible
candidates?
Are the road forks going to take v-brakes and up to 35mm
tires? Can anyone suggest a decent carbon-fiber fork for under $200?

Under $200 I think you are looking at a Winwood Muddy Cross
http://www.winwoodbikeparts.com/muddyX.html

(Paul Southworth) said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dan Lissit said:

Thanks to a car door opened on my left in traffic, I find myself in
need of a new fork for my Jamis Coda. The Coda is a hybrid, and I'm
not interested in suspension. Where should I be looking for possible
candidates?
Are the road forks going to take v-brakes and up to 35mm
tires? Can anyone suggest a decent carbon-fiber fork for under $200?

Under $200 I think you are looking at a Winwood Muddy Cross
http://www.winwoodbikeparts.com/muddyX.html

Be VERY careful with that fork... I used to have offer the Muddy Cross
until I sold a couple 'cross frames with the Winwood fork. Both
customers complained about severe brake shudder. To be safe I offered
to swap out the forks, and actually built a 'cross bike for myself
using the Winwood (mainly to test the fork - but hey, it's still
another bike!).

Holy moly. The bike is sitting unridden in my garage - FAR too scary
to ride. I mounted some 32mm knobbies, and under braking I could see
the knobs "stop" like they were under a strobe light... kinda like a
demonic Antilock Braking System gone bad.

For a while I thought the problem was a slight bit of play in the
canti posts, but I eliminated that altogether and it's STILL the same.
I swapped the Avid Shorty's out for a tried and tested pair of Ritchey
(Diacompe) cantis - still the same.

IMHO, the fork legs are far too "flat" to resist the considerable
torque from the cantis under braking. So you get an oscillation as
the brakes grab, rotate and release, then grab again... several times
a second.

FWIW, I'm going to put a Kinesis Crosslight on the bike - about the
same weight and MUCH stiffer (and I've never had a complaint).

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

(Dan Lissit) said:

Thanks to a car door opened on my left in traffic, I find myself in
need of a new fork for my Jamis Coda. The Coda is a hybrid, and I'm
not interested in suspension. Where should I be looking for possible
candidates? Are the road forks going to take v-brakes and up to 35mm
tires? Can anyone suggest a decent carbon-fiber fork for under $200?
Thanks, Dan

Surly and other companies sell steel forks-

http://www.surlybikes.com/forks.html

Bike shops often have take-off forks from when people switch to
carbon, etc. Call around.

Hope the dooring didn't hurt you. The one time I have bene doored,
there was $80 damage to my bike and $2000+ to the car.

Dan Daniel <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(Dan Lissit) said:

Thanks to a car door opened on my left in traffic, I find myself in
need of a new fork for my Jamis Coda. The Coda is a hybrid, and I'm
not interested in suspension. Where should I be looking for possible
candidates? Are the road forks going to take v-brakes and up to 35mm
tires? Can anyone suggest a decent carbon-fiber fork for under $200?
Thanks, Dan

Surly and other companies sell steel forks-

http://www.surlybikes.com/forks.html

Bike shops often have take-off forks from when people switch to
carbon, etc. Call around.

Hope the dooring didn't hurt you. The one time I have bene doored,
there was $80 damage to my bike and $2000+ to the car.

Thanks for asking. I wish I'd been as lucky as you. I ended up with
a broken collar bone (left) and broken wrist (right). Good thing
percocet plugs you up so efficiently: that's one service I didn't
want to ask of my wife! After 8 weeks the cast just came off my wrist
on Wednesday, so I'm finally ready to deal with getting back in the
saddle.

Self hijack: was my endo entirely my doing, or might it have been
related to the state my fork is currently in? I've been kind of
sheepish about the whole accident, never having endo-ed before despite
plenty of emergency stops. I was on my homeward commute (Rhode Island
Ave, DC), using the curb lane which was about 50/50 parked cars/open.
Coming up on a line of traffic waiting at a light when a passenger in
a taxi in the through lane decided to get out. I thought I had a
chance of squeezing past between the door and the parked car, and was
braking while steering for the gap. Suddenly, I was airborn. The odd
part is that I really don't think I was panicked: in fact neither I
nor my bike-- which landed 10 feet in front of me-- hit the door. So
there probably was enough room to get by. Is it possible that the
cause was the fork failing under extreme braking (both arms are
creased just enough for the wheel to contact the frame), rather than
me locking the wheel and my momentum causing the failure? I've been
planning on calling the passenger, who's in the police report, to ask
if he'll pay for the repairs to my bike, but it occurred to me that
maybe Jamis might be willing to replace it if this was an equipment
failure. I weigh 175# by the way-- or did before the 8 weeks on my
butt-- if that figures into the analysis.

[email hidden] (Dan Lissit) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Thanks to a car door opened on my left in traffic, I find myself in
need of a new fork for my Jamis Coda. The Coda is a hybrid, and I'm
not interested in suspension. Where should I be looking for possible
candidates? Are the road forks going to take v-brakes and up to 35mm
tires? Can anyone suggest a decent carbon-fiber fork for under $200?
Thanks, Dan

For many possible candidates go over to Harris Cyclery website and
look at the Quality Bicycle Products catalog online. QBP. It lists
many hybrid/trekking/cross forks. All with cantilever studs. Your
local bike shop can order any of these.

Mark Hickey said:

Be VERY careful with that fork... I used to have offer the Muddy Cross
until I sold a couple 'cross frames with the Winwood fork. Both
customers complained about severe brake shudder. To be safe I offered
to swap out the forks, and actually built a 'cross bike for myself
using the Winwood (mainly to test the fork - but hey, it's still
another bike!).

ahhh, fork shudder. fwiw, i swapped out an independent fabrications cross
fork for the disc brake version of this fork & with the same cantis as
before it markedly *reduced* brake shudder. i had 3" 20hz shudder before.
anyway, it still was too much for comfort so i threw on the disc brake
(which was the backup plan) and that fixed it.

Quoted message said:

Holy moly. The bike is sitting unridden in my garage - FAR too scary
to ride. I mounted some 32mm knobbies, and under braking I could see
the knobs "stop" like they were under a strobe light... kinda like a
demonic Antilock Braking System gone bad.

people never believed me 'til i showed 'em. scary as [censored].

Quoted message said:

For a while I thought the problem was a slight bit of play in the
canti posts, but I eliminated that altogether and it's STILL the same.
I swapped the Avid Shorty's out for a tried and tested pair of Ritchey
(Diacompe) cantis - still the same.

a brake bridge made it worse. tried 4 brakes, 4 brake pads, 2 forks,
chris king headset ok. worse in wet & humid conditions.

Quoted message said:

IMHO, the fork legs are far too "flat" to resist the considerable
torque from the cantis under braking. So you get an oscillation as
the brakes grab, rotate and release, then grab again... several times
a second.

i'm not so sure. tried both forks on others bikes and they were ok (even
with me @ 175lb on it). my bike is a ti seven. bicycling had a review
of my frame that also made the fork shudder complaint. neither of the
two bikes i tried the forks on were ti (steel & aluminum) but i realise
i'm reaching here.

Quoted message said:

FWIW, I'm going to put a Kinesis Crosslight on the bike - about the
same weight and MUCH stiffer (and I've never had a complaint).

i'd be interested in your results .. on the same bike. maybe a massively
overengineered fork will fix the problem, but i suspect there's another
factor involved that necessitates it. those forks worked ok on other
bikes. and no, no, no, it's not the headset.
--
david reuteler
[email hidden]

David Reuteler said:

ahhh, fork shudder. fwiw, i swapped out an independent fabrications cross
fork for the disc brake version of this fork

i should mention that the independent fabrications fork was steel.
--
david reuteler
[email hidden]

If you want a steel fork, I recommend the Kona P2.

--

David Reuteler said:

Mark Hickey said:

Be VERY careful with that fork... I used to have offer the Muddy Cross
until I sold a couple 'cross frames with the Winwood fork. Both
customers complained about severe brake shudder. To be safe I offered
to swap out the forks, and actually built a 'cross bike for myself
using the Winwood (mainly to test the fork - but hey, it's still
another bike!).

ahhh, fork shudder. fwiw, i swapped out an independent fabrications cross
fork for the disc brake version of this fork & with the same cantis as
before it markedly *reduced* brake shudder.

The Winwood disc-ready carbon fork seems to be a lot beefier than the
canti version. I'd expect it to have less problem with shudder, at
least if you installed disc brakes.

Quoted message said:

i had 3" 20hz shudder before.
anyway, it still was too much for comfort so i threw on the disc brake
(which was the backup plan) and that fixed it.

Quoted message said:

Holy moly. The bike is sitting unridden in my garage - FAR too scary
to ride. I mounted some 32mm knobbies, and under braking I could see
the knobs "stop" like they were under a strobe light... kinda like a
demonic Antilock Braking System gone bad.

people never believed me 'til i showed 'em. scary as [censored].

More than I would have believed before I test rode the bike in front
of the house.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

IMHO, the fork legs are far too "flat" to resist the considerable
torque from the cantis under braking. So you get an oscillation as
the brakes grab, rotate and release, then grab again... several times
a second.

i'm not so sure. tried both forks on others bikes and they were ok (even
with me @ 175lb on it). my bike is a ti seven. bicycling had a review
of my frame that also made the fork shudder complaint. neither of the
two bikes i tried the forks on were ti (steel & aluminum) but i realise
i'm reaching here.

Quoted message said:

FWIW, I'm going to put a Kinesis Crosslight on the bike - about the
same weight and MUCH stiffer (and I've never had a complaint).

i'd be interested in your results .. on the same bike. maybe a massively
overengineered fork will fix the problem, but i suspect there's another
factor involved that necessitates it. those forks worked ok on other
bikes. and no, no, no, it's not the headset.

I dunno... the front end of the bike is basically identical to the
road bikes I sell. And I've never had complaints of brake shudder
from any of the other forks that I've sold with my 'cross frames.
Kinda hard to imagine the frame being much of a player in the equation
(especially since they're on the "stiff side" compared to most
frames).

But it is VERY interesting that you were able to successfully use the
same forks on different frames without a problem. I can only assume
that increasing the head tube angle (making it steeper) would tend to
exacerbate a shudder problem... is there a difference in HT angle
between your ti Seven and the other frames?

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

Mark Hickey said:

Quoted message said:

ahhh, fork shudder. fwiw, i swapped out an independent fabrications cross
fork for the disc brake version of this fork & with the same cantis as
before it markedly *reduced* brake shudder.

The Winwood disc-ready carbon fork seems to be a lot beefier than the
canti version. I'd expect it to have less problem with shudder, at
least if you installed disc brakes.

just to be explicit there is absolutely no trace of shudder when using a disc
brake (which is what i'm doing) and less with the cantis with this fork than
with the steel independent fabrications fork.

Quoted message said:

I dunno... the front end of the bike is basically identical to the
road bikes I sell. And I've never had complaints of brake shudder
from any of the other forks that I've sold with my 'cross frames.
Kinda hard to imagine the frame being much of a player in the equation
(especially since they're on the "stiff side" compared to most
frames).

But it is VERY interesting that you were able to successfully use the
same forks on different frames without a problem. I can only assume
that increasing the head tube angle (making it steeper) would tend to
exacerbate a shudder problem... is there a difference in HT angle
between your ti Seven and the other frames?

the head-tube angle (says seven) is 73.5 degrees which is comparatively steep
to the the independent fabrications planet cross (@ 71.5 or 72.0 degrees)
and the surly @ 72.0 but the same as yours (73.5 in my size .. ~58cm).

and so the plot stinkens.
--
david reuteler
[email hidden]

David Reuteler said:

Mark Hickey said:

Quoted message said:

ahhh, fork shudder. fwiw, i swapped out an independent fabrications cross
fork for the disc brake version of this fork & with the same cantis as
before it markedly *reduced* brake shudder.

The Winwood disc-ready carbon fork seems to be a lot beefier than the
canti version. I'd expect it to have less problem with shudder, at
least if you installed disc brakes.

just to be explicit there is absolutely no trace of shudder when using a disc
brake (which is what i'm doing) and less with the cantis with this fork than
with the steel independent fabrications fork.

I'm not too surprised - it looks a LOT beefier than the Winwood
"non-disc" 'cross fork. And I wouldn't expect any shudder with disc
brakes, though I guess it's theoretically possible.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I dunno... the front end of the bike is basically identical to the
road bikes I sell. And I've never had complaints of brake shudder
from any of the other forks that I've sold with my 'cross frames.
Kinda hard to imagine the frame being much of a player in the equation
(especially since they're on the "stiff side" compared to most
frames).

But it is VERY interesting that you were able to successfully use the
same forks on different frames without a problem. I can only assume
that increasing the head tube angle (making it steeper) would tend to
exacerbate a shudder problem... is there a difference in HT angle
between your ti Seven and the other frames?

the head-tube angle (says seven) is 73.5 degrees which is comparatively steep
to the the independent fabrications planet cross (@ 71.5 or 72.0 degrees)
and the surly @ 72.0 but the same as yours (73.5 in my size .. ~58cm).

and so the plot stinkens.

That almost makes sense - a steeper HT angle would require less
vertical movement of the fork's dropouts when it was tempted to
shudder... or another way to look at it is the tire would more
effectively damp the tendency to shudder the slacker the HT angle.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

Mark Hickey <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I'm not too surprised - it looks a LOT beefier than the Winwood
"non-disc" 'cross fork. And I wouldn't expect any shudder with disc
brakes, though I guess it's theoretically possible.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I dunno... the front end of the bike is basically identical to the
road bikes I sell. And I've never had complaints of brake shudder
from any of the other forks that I've sold with my 'cross frames.
Kinda hard to imagine the frame being much of a player in the equation
(especially since they're on the "stiff side" compared to most
frames).

But it is VERY interesting that you were able to successfully use the
same forks on different frames without a problem. I can only assume
that increasing the head tube angle (making it steeper) would tend to
exacerbate a shudder problem... is there a difference in HT angle
between your ti Seven and the other frames?

the head-tube angle (says seven) is 73.5 degrees which is comparatively steep
to the the independent fabrications planet cross (@ 71.5 or 72.0 degrees)
and the surly @ 72.0 but the same as yours (73.5 in my size .. ~58cm).

and so the plot stinkens.

That almost makes sense - a steeper HT angle would require less
vertical movement of the fork's dropouts when it was tempted to
shudder... or another way to look at it is the tire would more
effectively damp the tendency to shudder the slacker the HT angle.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

OP here. Is there any possibility that fork shudder (1st time I've
heard of the issue-- thanks)could have played a role in the accident I
described below? Thanks for your comments.

(Dan Lissit) said:

OP here. Is there any possibility that fork shudder (1st time I've
heard of the issue-- thanks)could have played a role in the accident I
described below? Thanks for your comments.

Fork shudder can make a controlled stop that much more difficult
(since it's impossible to modulate the brakes effectively). It would
be a hard sell to say it had a lot to do with your accident I suppose.
You certainly "overbraked" - if you hadn't noticed any braking shudder
previously chances are very slim it would have occurred this one
particular application of the brakes.

JMHO, of course.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

In article <[email hidden]>, David Reuteler says...

Quoted message said:

ahhh, fork shudder.

I changed wheels and got a good case of fork shudder. It has gradully dimished
and is almost gone. i assume brake pad wear is fixing it. If it happened again
I would try sanding the brake pads and maybe the rim.

Ed said:

In article <[email hidden]>, David Reuteler says...

Quoted message said:

ahhh, fork shudder.

I changed wheels and got a good case of fork shudder. It has gradully dimished
and is almost gone. i assume brake pad wear is fixing it. If it happened again
I would try sanding the brake pads and maybe the rim.

sorry, i forgot to mention i tried bontrager fairlanes, velocity deep v's,
mavic open pros and campagnolo shamals, 4 brake pads, i cleaned and dirtied
pads and rims all of it with varying degrees of brake shudder.
--
david reuteler
[email hidden]