P-R Odds

Carl Sundquist said:

Your average Joe doesn't discern Paris-Roubaix from your local road
race.

Last night my wife's 19-year-old cousin came over for dinner and I
mentioned that Paris-Roubaix was Sunday. He stopped kicking my daughter's
toy soccer ball long enough to give me a quizzical look and say, "Paris
What?" My wife explained that it was a bicycle race between Paris and (ta
da!) Roubaix and he looked at me again and asked, "You're riding this on
Sunday?"

"Patrick O'Grady" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

You may find this interesting: I don't believe I've ever worked for a
paper whose sports section had a healthy ads-to-news ratio. I have a copy
of today's Colorado Springs Gazette here in front of me, and in the
12-page Sports section, I count five smallish ads: one house ad (for the
paper itself); one for a strip club; one for a massage parlor; one for a
car dealership; and one for a "golf and games" outfit. Nine pages have no
ads at all. Makes you think. Or maybe not.

How does it compare to the business section? Visualizing quickly, I think if
you have four sections: Int'l, nat'l, and local news / Business / Features /
Sports, most of the ads are in the News and Features sections. Business and
Sports are probably pretty close in their ratio. Then again, as you noted,
we should probably factor in ad content (or subject). Interestingly, it's
both Sports and Business that offer daily newspapers that are predominately
focused on that aspect of news.

That's about all I can manage (with no conclusions as you can see) with a
Saturday morning head fogged by a vicious assault of pollen and allergies.

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

As long as the powers-that-be in the
sports media don't understand bicycle racing, it will remain a freak
show in their minds.

Agreed, but the problem is not just the "powers-that-be". Ever sit down
and watch a race with someone who's not familiar with the sport?
Inevitably, the fist question they ask is, "Who's winning?" Usually,
after you explain that it's three hours into a five hour race, and those
eight guys with a fifteeen minute lead aren't going to win, and really
aren't supposed to, and they're just working for their team leaders who
are safely tucked somewhere in the pack waaaaay behind them....once you
get done explaining all that, they're looking at you like you're some
kind of [censored] alien. Better yet, try to explain a couple of sprinters
doing a trackstand--we might get what's going on and why it's exciting,
but will the average viewer? They just don't get it. And why should
they? In popular american sports, there really is no analog. I try to
explain it as a chess match at 30 miles-per-hour, and that helps people
understand some, but not much.

Face it....our sport has a steep learning curve, and unless you have
some knowledge of the strategy and tactics being played out, it mostly
looks like a whole bunch of skinny white guys out for a ride.

Most americans are rased in a sports culture that doesn't care for
complex, drawn out stories. That's not to say they can't be made
interested in them, it just takes a while. I think if you dropped the
average sports fan into the crowd at a cross race, they would "get it"
immediatley. The duration is fairly short, most of the action (on a good
course) plays out where you can see it, and, generally, the front of the
race is the front of the race. The same goes when I take a non-racing
friend up to T-town. While there may be some things they don't
understand or enjoy (the pursuit?), for the most part they enjoy the
experience, and often they are more than willing to go again. So, I
believe there are avenues to get the uninitated interested in our sport,
but it ain't going to be easy or quick.

You're also right about the the Lance/LeMond thing. That whole _Up Close
and Personal_ approach to getting people interested in sport by getting
them interested in the personalities involved really doesn't work. Every
July people always ask, "How's Lance doing?" not, "Who's winning the
Tour?" They don't give a [censored] about the bicycle race, and once the
personality isn't involved, for them the sport might as well cease to
exist. There are some way to sell this sport to the public, but the cult
of personality isn't one of them.

Quoted message said:

Most americans are raised in a ________ culture that doesn't care for
complex, drawn out stories.

I think that statement (with the edit) pretty much sums it up. Sadly.

Faster Bordello <[email hidden]> wrote in news:c596s2$7v1$1
@terabinaries.xmission.com:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Most americans are raised in a ________ culture that doesn't care for
complex, drawn out stories.

I think that statement (with the edit) pretty much sums it up. Sadly.

Then `splain to me the popularity of the LoTR movies! As much as I would
like to agree with you, I really can't. In many types of entertainment,
americans love complex, drawn out stories. Even mundane forms like soap
opera and reality shows--Survivor, for example--demonstrate this.

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What cycling 'stars' does the American public know if you went into a
'sports bar' and said their names? Hampsten (Grand Tour winner),

Hamilton

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(LBL winner)? Nothstein (Oly Gold Medal winner)? Horner?

Probably none of the above.

And why is that Carl? When was the last time that you went into a sports
bar, bought a beer and made them put on a bike race? This is a new way

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

popularize bicycle racing - try it some time. Damned if it didn't even

work

Quoted message said:

in France during Le Tour - which most people here think is the national
French pastime and which most French are only vaguely aware of.

Last time I checked, the TdF was going strong long before somebody came up
with the bright idea of putting a TV in a bar. Probably well before any

live

Quoted message said:

radio broadcasts of the race too. IIRC, the reason for the yellow jersey

is

Quoted message said:

because Le Equipe was/is printed on yellow paper, likely the only form of
mass media covering the event for quite some time.

Sure, but the reason that the Tour became acceptable sport in the USA was
Greg LeMond.

Times have changed. If you ride over in Woodside area there are literally
thousands of bicyclists that pass through there on any given weekend.
However, only OLN is getting the message here and the reason is that they
were smart enough to [censored] victory from the jaws of an increasingly
ignorant and foolish main network system which thinks that audience ratings
of less that 10% of the viewers isn't worth pursueing. In today's market
that's foolish beyond ignorance.

The reason that you would EVER see Monster Trucks crashing into one another
on TV is because lard-assed pre-heart attack victims sit around in bars and
watch that [censored] on TV. If more cyclists show up for the cycling shows, think
what sort of impact that would have. Mostly young or young-looking, fit,
healthy and with money to spend. Having fun and watching bicycle racing
could change the entire perspective of sports TV in the USA.

But it's going to take groups of riders showing up on OLN cycling Sundays at
your local Sports Bars to get the ball rolling. It isn't as if this wouldn't
be a kick.

The only negative I can see is the chance of running into Palachick,
Albright or Trdina if you live back east. That would certainly spoil any
appetite. But that ain't a problem out here on the west coast where O'Grady
is the worst thing you're likely to come across when he accidently sobers up
and finds himself down at sea level. At least that's my understanding of
cyclocross riders in the summer.

Amit said:

Like him and his long metrosexual head or not he has made the
selections for RVV and PR, but he doesn't have the sprint (like PVP or
Bettini) to finish it off with any certainty.

Quoted message said:

He's up there enough that if things go his way he can win, which is
how he won G-W.

Quoted message said:

Moose is 39, Tafi is 38, Tchmil won his first World Cup race in '94 at
the age of 31. George is 30, if he sticks around can have another 7-8
tries at the classics.

That is very true. But it is also as true or more true about a
ton of other riders. Up-there-a-lot-and-maybe-could-finish-one-
off-some-day-if-things-go-well is not a profile to make a DS
salivate at the prospect of building a team around you.

That may happen someday but right now he doesn't even have the
best classics record in his own team.

Bob Schwartz
[email hidden]