Why I like George....

"Tim Mullin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

....better than Lance.

After today's PR, Hincape admits he just didn't have the legs after making
the break with Museeuw. No [censored] excuses, just an honest admission of
what every cyclist knows--some days the other guy is just faster than you.

Lance, on the other hand, always seems to have an excuse. A hunger knock.
The other guy warmed up in air conditioning. Everything, it seems, this
side of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Why can't he admit that--plain and
simple--on that day the other guy rode a better race? Not the hallmark of

a

Quoted message said:

great champion in my book.

Isn't a hunger knock an admission that you did something stupid? When I
heard him talk about it, I thought that's what he was doing ... admitting
he'd done something boneheaded.

As for "the other guy warmed up in air conditioning" ... show me where Lance
ever said that. Paul Sherwin and Phil said it. The media said it. But I
think you're putting words into Lance's mouth.

I don't think graciousness comes naturally to Lance. It always seems
forced. But I think he says the right thing. He's always saying Ullrich is
the better rider ... though Lance has beaten him repeatedly. He always
gives credit to the strength of his team and acknowledges that he couldn't
do it without them.

I like George, too. You wanna talk gracious ... he called me in the
hospital after I got hit by a car. He didn't know me from Adam, but he
heard about me getting creamed, and he called. It blew me away. What a
special person to do a thing like that!

But I think you're dissing Lance for stuff he never said and you're
attributing things the media said to Lance himself.

Bob C.

Thanks for sharing that comment! George always has struck me as a classy
guy from humble beginnings who quietly goes out and does his best. Perhaps
his best is not as good as it should be but I'll keep rooting for him.

That's a great story about him calling you. Nice!

"psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tim Mullin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

....better than Lance.

After today's PR, Hincape admits he just didn't have the legs after

making

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the break with Museeuw. No [censored] excuses, just an honest admission of
what every cyclist knows--some days the other guy is just faster than

you.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Lance, on the other hand, always seems to have an excuse. A hunger

knock.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The other guy warmed up in air conditioning. Everything, it seems, this
side of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Why can't he admit that--plain

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

simple--on that day the other guy rode a better race? Not the hallmark

of

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

great champion in my book.

Isn't a hunger knock an admission that you did something stupid? When I
heard him talk about it, I thought that's what he was doing ... admitting
he'd done something boneheaded.

As for "the other guy warmed up in air conditioning" ... show me where

Lance

Quoted message said:

ever said that. Paul Sherwin and Phil said it. The media said it. But I
think you're putting words into Lance's mouth.

I don't think graciousness comes naturally to Lance. It always seems
forced. But I think he says the right thing. He's always saying Ullrich

is

Quoted message said:

the better rider ... though Lance has beaten him repeatedly. He always
gives credit to the strength of his team and acknowledges that he couldn't
do it without them.

I like George, too. You wanna talk gracious ... he called me in the
hospital after I got hit by a car. He didn't know me from Adam, but he
heard about me getting creamed, and he called. It blew me away. What a
special person to do a thing like that!

But I think you're dissing Lance for stuff he never said and you're
attributing things the media said to Lance himself.

Bob C.

in article cVkec.113233$gA5.1457560@attbi_s03, Randy Walton at
[email hidden] wrote on 4/11/04 4:54 PM:

Quoted message said:

Thanks for sharing that comment! George always has struck me as a classy
guy from humble beginnings who quietly goes out and does his best. Perhaps
his best is not as good as it should be but I'll keep rooting for him.

That's a great story about him calling you. Nice!

IMO Hincapie is many things:

- one of the most handsome guys in the peloton
- quiet, gracious and humane
- tough and determined
- a killer-good domestique

....He's just not there yet, in terms of winning the classics. It looked to
me like he lost RvV because he didn't commit himself to the attack he
started, and he lost Paris-Roubaix because he invested too much in the wrong
breakaway, then didn't have anything left to join the right one.

Sometimes he's not willing enough to take charge when he should, and other
times he's too eager to assert himself and burns himself out when he should
be reserving himself and waiting for the km markers to get low enough. The
key thing is that he tends to consistently choose the wrong one... his
racing behavior always seems a bit unusual. If he learned how to do things
normally he'd have more success, I think.

-Sonarrat.

Quoted message said:

Lance, on the other hand, always seems to have an excuse. A hunger knock.
The other guy warmed up in air conditioning. Everything, it seems, this
side of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Why can't he admit that--plain and
simple--on that day the other guy rode a better race? Not the hallmark of

a

Quoted message said:

great champion in my book.

With Lance's book of excuses, I couldn't believe he used the brake rub
one. If I used that one on a Fred ride, I'd get funny looks.

Kinda makes you wonder what someone like Bjarne Riis could do with him...

"Sonarrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in article cVkec.113233$gA5.1457560@attbi_s03, Randy Walton at
[email hidden] wrote on 4/11/04 4:54 PM:

Quoted message said:

Thanks for sharing that comment! George always has struck me as a

classy

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

guy from humble beginnings who quietly goes out and does his best.

Perhaps

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

his best is not as good as it should be but I'll keep rooting for him.

That's a great story about him calling you. Nice!

IMO Hincapie is many things:

- one of the most handsome guys in the peloton
- quiet, gracious and humane
- tough and determined
- a killer-good domestique

...He's just not there yet, in terms of winning the classics. It looked

to

Quoted message said:

me like he lost RvV because he didn't commit himself to the attack he
started, and he lost Paris-Roubaix because he invested too much in the

wrong

Quoted message said:

breakaway, then didn't have anything left to join the right one.

Sometimes he's not willing enough to take charge when he should, and other
times he's too eager to assert himself and burns himself out when he

should

Quoted message said:

be reserving himself and waiting for the km markers to get low enough.

The

Quoted message said:

key thing is that he tends to consistently choose the wrong one... his
racing behavior always seems a bit unusual. If he learned how to do

things

Quoted message said:

normally he'd have more success, I think.

-Sonarrat.

Quoted message said:

Kinda makes you wonder what someone like Bjarne Riis could do with him...

Or how he might do if he had a team mate (or two) somewhere past the first
50km of the race... The most striking thing in that Nike video a few years
back (the one that focused on Lance's preparation for the TDF, including
riding up that mountain until the snow blocked the road, and then some) was
the Paris Roubaix coverage, where George is heard on the radio, wondering
where his guys were, asking for a bit of help.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

If George and a team mate or two with him, he wouldn't have had to expend
all that energy watching and covering evry serious break. Maybe he wouldn't
have run out of gas or rely on luck to be in the right break at the end.
When I saw Boonen take off without Museeuw, I had the feeling that it was
intended to draw as many suckers as possible.

The rider who impressed me the most was PVP. Impressive effort. Too bad he
ran out of road.

Sonarrat said:

in article cVkec.113233$gA5.1457560@attbi_s03, Randy Walton at
[email hidden] wrote on 4/11/04 4:54 PM:

Quoted message said:

Thanks for sharing that comment! George always has struck me as a
classy guy from humble beginnings who quietly goes out and does his
best. Perhaps his best is not as good as it should be but I'll keep
rooting for him.

That's a great story about him calling you. Nice!

IMO Hincapie is many things:

- one of the most handsome guys in the peloton
- quiet, gracious and humane
- tough and determined
- a killer-good domestique

...He's just not there yet, in terms of winning the classics. It
looked to me like he lost RvV because he didn't commit himself to the
attack he started, and he lost Paris-Roubaix because he invested too
much in the wrong breakaway, then didn't have anything left to join
the right one.

Sometimes he's not willing enough to take charge when he should, and
other times he's too eager to assert himself and burns himself out
when he should be reserving himself and waiting for the km markers to
get low enough. The key thing is that he tends to consistently
choose the wrong one... his racing behavior always seems a bit
unusual. If he learned how to do things normally he'd have more
success, I think.

-Sonarrat.

Callistus Valerius said:

With Lance's book of excuses, I couldn't believe he used the
brake rub one. If I used that one on a Fred ride, I'd get funny
looks.

But then, you get funny looks just walking down the street...

Good point. I would have expected Cruz or Van Heeswijk to at least be
there. This caption says it all...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/apr04/roubaix04/index.php?id=raceday/dsc_0091

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Kinda makes you wonder what someone like Bjarne Riis could do with

him...

Quoted message said:

Or how he might do if he had a team mate (or two) somewhere past the first
50km of the race... The most striking thing in that Nike video a few

years

Quoted message said:

back (the one that focused on Lance's preparation for the TDF, including
riding up that mountain until the snow blocked the road, and then some)

was

Quoted message said:

the Paris Roubaix coverage, where George is heard on the radio, wondering
where his guys were, asking for a bit of help.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Or how he might do if he had a team mate (or two) somewhere past the first
50km of the race... The most striking thing in that Nike video a few years
back (the one that focused on Lance's preparation for the TDF, including
riding up that mountain until the snow blocked the road, and then some) was
the Paris Roubaix coverage, where George is heard on the radio, wondering
where his guys were, asking for a bit of help.

I like George too. But this stuff rings particularly hollow after a race
where guys like Hammond and Backstedt did just fine with no teammates and
Backstedt was able to finish it off.

Really, there is no reason to believe that having teammates there would
have made the difference for a guy that doesn't yet appear to have that
special quality to win on a weekend.

Being alone makes it harder, for sure. Backstedt had to read the race
exactly right with no room for error. He might miss it 9 times out of 10,
but he got it right on Sunday and he made it count. We are still waiting
for George.

Bob Schwartz
[email hidden]

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Or how he might do if he had a team mate (or two) somewhere past the
first 50km of the race...

He probably would've finished about 8th.

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

the Paris Roubaix coverage, where George is heard on the radio,

wondering

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

where his guys were, asking for a bit of help.

I like George too. But this stuff rings particularly hollow after a race
where guys like Hammond and Backstedt did just fine with no teammates and
Backstedt was able to finish it off.

One could reasonably wonder what would have happened had he not tried to
ride away from t-mobile and lotto just as easily as if he had more teamates!

Quoted message said:

We are still waiting

Quoted message said:

for George.

He's a good man and should get his big sunday just like mickelson finally
did.

Quoted message said:

Bob Schwartz
[email hidden]

Tim Mullin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

....better than Lance.

After today's PR, Hincape admits he just didn't have the legs after making
the break with Museeuw. No [censored] excuses, just an honest admission of
what every cyclist knows--some days the other guy is just faster than you.

Lance, on the other hand, always seems to have an excuse. A hunger knock.
The other guy warmed up in air conditioning. Everything, it seems, this
side of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Why can't he admit that--plain and
simple--on that day the other guy rode a better race? Not the hallmark of a
great champion in my book.

I also like George.

Tha may come as a surprise, given how hard I have been on him in this
newsgroup. But really, when I do that, it's not as much him I'm
making fun of as the people who think that he is the American Museeuw.

As I was out riding yesterday I was thinking how unexpectedly cool it
would be if I got on the computer and found out he'd won. Then I
reminded myself that wouldn't happen. And it didn't.

-RJ

"psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Isn't a hunger knock an admission that you did something stupid? When I
heard him talk about it, I thought that's what he was doing ... admitting
he'd done something boneheaded.

As for "the other guy warmed up in air conditioning" ... show me where Lance
ever said that. Paul Sherwin and Phil said it. The media said it. But I
think you're putting words into Lance's mouth.

You're right on this point, but Armstrong and Carmichael did blame the
poor performance on dehydration (see lancearmstrong.com for
reference). Hunger knock, as you said, admitting he'd done something
boneheaded. The same for dehydration. The same for the rubbing brake.
In each case, Lance, in effect, is saying, "He didn't beat me I did
something stupid and beat myself." Whether intentional or not, it has
the effect of deminishing the winner's accomplishment. It's petty,
it's sad, and it says a great deal about Armstrong's character.

"Tim Mullin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Isn't a hunger knock an admission that you did something stupid? When I
heard him talk about it, I thought that's what he was doing ...

admitting

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

he'd done something boneheaded.

As for "the other guy warmed up in air conditioning" ... show me where

Lance

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ever said that. Paul Sherwin and Phil said it. The media said it. But

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

think you're putting words into Lance's mouth.

You're right on this point, but Armstrong and Carmichael did blame the
poor performance on dehydration (see lancearmstrong.com for
reference). Hunger knock, as you said, admitting he'd done something
boneheaded. The same for dehydration. The same for the rubbing brake.
In each case, Lance, in effect, is saying, "He didn't beat me I did
something stupid and beat myself." Whether intentional or not, it has
the effect of deminishing the winner's accomplishment. It's petty,
it's sad, and it says a great deal about Armstrong's character.

When Gino Bartali lost a few minutes to Robic and Coppi in the first
mountain stage of the Tour of '49 because of serious stomach troubles, a
journalist said to him: "But it wasn't your own fault, you were sick".
Bartali answered: "Of course it was my own fault. When a rider gets sick, it
means his preparation wasn't good enough".

Benjo Maso

Tim Mullin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

....better than Lance.

After today's PR, Hincape admits he just didn't have the legs after making
the break with Museeuw. No [censored] excuses, just an honest admission of
what every cyclist knows--some days the other guy is just faster than you.

George is very dedicated classic's and domestique rider. George
conducts himeslf in a very professional manner as well. George is the
type of rider who can win a few stages and the occasional classic. As
for Paris-Roubaix, something always seems to trip George up for some
reason.

Quoted message said:

Lance, on the other hand, always seems to have an excuse. A hunger knock.
The other guy warmed up in air conditioning. Everything, it seems, this
side of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Why can't he admit that--plain and
simple--on that day the other guy rode a better race? Not the hallmark of a
great champion in my book.

Unless there's an obvious physical advantage, the difference between a five
time champ and a 5 time runnerup is that the champ thinks he's the best and
it's his to loose. Maybe it makes us feel better to see a loser play nice,
but it's hypocritical. I'd rather the guy tells us what he feels and
believes than the usual sports cliche pap.

Tim Mullin said:

"psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Isn't a hunger knock an admission that you did something stupid?
When I heard him talk about it, I thought that's what he was doing
... admitting he'd done something boneheaded.

As for "the other guy warmed up in air conditioning" ... show me
where Lance ever said that. Paul Sherwin and Phil said it. The
media said it. But I think you're putting words into Lance's mouth.

You're right on this point, but Armstrong and Carmichael did blame the
poor performance on dehydration (see lancearmstrong.com for
reference). Hunger knock, as you said, admitting he'd done something
boneheaded. The same for dehydration. The same for the rubbing brake.
In each case, Lance, in effect, is saying, "He didn't beat me I did
something stupid and beat myself." Whether intentional or not, it has
the effect of deminishing the winner's accomplishment. It's petty,
it's sad, and it says a great deal about Armstrong's character.

I hear what you are saying about excuses but Eddy the greatest of all
time had alot of them the few times he got his ass kicked.

trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Callistus Valerius said:

With Lance's book of excuses, I couldn't believe he used the
brake rub one. If I used that one on a Fred ride, I'd get funny
looks.

But then, you get funny looks just walking down the street...

"Randy Walton" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:Y%wec.19716$wP1.38863@attbi_s54:

Quoted message said:

Good point. I would have expected Cruz or Van Heeswijk to at least be
there. This caption says it all...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/apr04/roubaix04/index.php?id=rac
eday/dsc_0091

Actually, it only tells us about George -- to really say it all, you
would need similar photos for, say, the first 4 guys who rode into the
velodrome with comments about their teammates.

Quoted message said:

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Kinda makes you wonder what someone like Bjarne Riis could do with

him...

Quoted message said:

Or how he might do if he had a team mate (or two) somewhere past the
first 50km of the race... The most striking thing in that Nike video
a few

years

Quoted message said:

back (the one that focused on Lance's preparation for the TDF,
including riding up that mountain until the snow blocked the road,
and then some)

was

Quoted message said:

the Paris Roubaix coverage, where George is heard on the radio,
wondering where his guys were, asking for a bit of help.

I didn't see that video. Was it filmed the year George went head first
into the ditch, and his helper Boonen had to go on and take George's spot
on the podium? Oh, and I can't recall, but didn't George have teammates
with him that day when Johann just motored away from them all with about
30 k to go? I recall Frankie being UP the road then.

Hey, I like George too and wish him the best of luck, but I think you're
going overboard in making excuses or trying to stack the deck in his
favor.

NS