[censored] bike racers(long)

We are having exactly the same problems here in New Zealand and it is mostly the Elite and A graders that are to blame.
The C,D,E,F, grade riders seem much more aware of the traffic around them.
Small comisseration I know, but you are not alone in having events stopped.
Last fun ride an Elite rider told a cop to F Off when told to get on to the correct side of the road, that incident will probably cancel the ride next year and about 3 thousand riders again have no ride.

Ro.

SSDD. Back in the early 1980s we lost one of the best venues I've ever seen
for road racing---the course at SUNY Old Westbury (Empire State College).
Sunday morning noise complaints from neighbors whose homes were near the
start finish area over several months culminating in vandalism on the campus
during the annual race run by the Columbian Bicycle Club from Queens, caused
cancellation of all racing by the college administration. I don't think
there's been a race there in over 20 years.

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This is a long message from the NE list:

I just want to inform everyone that the Monson Road Race will no longer be
held due to a variety of incidents that occurred this past weekend. You
should also be aware that the incidents that I am referring to are a

direct

Quoted message said:

result of many of the racers themselves. Unfortunately, their
inconsideration and inability to respect the town and community has

resulted

Quoted message said:

in the Chief of Police denying any further request to hold this race in
Monson.

I have just been informed by the Town Selectmen that the Monson Road Race
will no longer be approved due to several reasons: (1) Unsafe warming up
on the race course. Many racers thought they could warm up on the course
prior to their event, forcing cars toward oncoming racers. You were

warned

Quoted message said:

not to warm up on the course, yet many of you disregarded this

announcement

Quoted message said:

and it resulted in unsafe conditions and one of the main reasons for the
denial of future events here. (2) Many riders off the back of the main
pack felt that the entire road was now theirs. Again, this resulted in

very

Quoted message said:

unsafe conditions and traffic backups. The Police felt that these
straggling riders were unprotected since they seemed to be riding all over
the road.

As many of you know, it is very difficult promoting bike races. I have
strived to provide the best racing conditions possible, trying to create
optimal racing conditions for everyone. After eight years of putting on

the

Quoted message said:

Monson race, it is my extreme displeasure to announce that it is over. I
think that we, as conscientious racers, need to be more aware of our
surroundings when we race. We do not own the town when we race there for

a

Quoted message said:

few hours, and need to be aware of the communities who are kind enough to
allow us to utilize their roads. Unfortunately, Monson will no longer be
one of those communities, but you have only yourselves to thank for that.

Please be aware of what you do and how you conduct yourselves at future
events or else Monson will not be the last to begin denying events. As is
usually the case, it is the actions of a few who ruin many things for the
majority. For those of you who raced responsibly in Monson this year and

in

Quoted message said:

years past, thank you.

This is from Mike Norton a NEBRA board member and promoter of several

races

Quoted message said:

here.
This has become a huge issue here with several races in serious danger.

All

Quoted message said:

you [censored] need to wake up and stop blaming everyone but yourselves.

You

Quoted message said:

have a huge chunk of the responsibility whether the races continue to

happen.

Quoted message said:

Bill C

Quoted message said:

From: "Ro" [email protected]

Quoted message said:

Last fun ride an Elite rider told a cop to F Off when told to get on to the
correct side of the road, that incident will probably cancel the ride next
year and about 3 thousand riders again have no ride.

Ro.

Unfortunately as an official this frustrates the hell out of me. It's only a
handfull of riders doing this kind of [censored]. The same ones pissing on the church
lawn 100 meters from the portable toilets. I could probably guess who was
involved in this and some of the other problems that are likely to cost us
another good race next year. Being on a motor I can sort of control things
towards the beginning of a race but once things start to break up my job is
really with the front group where the race is and the riders off the back need
to police themselves.
It's a shame that a small number of idiots keep doing stupid [censored] in the weeks
leading up to races when practicing on the course, then follow it up with more
stupid behavior during and after the race.
Ours insist they weren't doing anything wrong even when caught in the act and
get all offended. All of the racers who want to keep good races alive need to
talk with these [censored] and explain reality to them, not just us officials
and the promoters.
Bill C

Reminds me of a race in Maryland last year. Similar warnings,
including specifically to ride single file after the finish when going
back to the parking lot. After the finish, I was behind 4 riders from
the same team who were completely blocking the lane, chatting away
while spinning at about 10 mph. A car went around me and as it
approached them (there were racers coming in the opposite lane as well
as some traffic) and gave them a non-agressive beep to let them know
he was there so they could move over, they freaked out. Started
giving the guy the finger and cursing at him. Amazingly the race has
continued despite [censored] like these jeopardizing a good course for
everyone. Oh well, the industrial parks are available on weekends.

"Wayne" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

they freaked out. Started
giving the guy the finger and cursing at him.

The same personality type as the drivers that give us a hard time. It all
depends on whose ox is being gored...

Bill,

While I agree completely with what you say, I've seen and heard of this kind
of behavior for some many years that I really think you're spitting into the
wind.

Brian
"Spitting In The Wind Comes Back At You Twice As Hard" --Lou Reed, Strawman
(New York)

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

SSDD. Back in the early 1980s we lost one of the best venues I've ever

seen

Quoted message said:

for road racing---the course at SUNY Old Westbury (Empire State College).
Sunday morning noise complaints from neighbors whose homes were near the
start finish area over several months culminating in vandalism on the

campus

Quoted message said:

during the annual race run by the Columbian Bicycle Club from Queens,

caused

Quoted message said:

cancellation of all racing by the college administration. I don't think
there's been a race there in over 20 years.

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This is a long message from the NE list:

I just want to inform everyone that the Monson Road Race will no longer

be

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

held due to a variety of incidents that occurred this past weekend. You
should also be aware that the incidents that I am referring to are a

direct

Quoted message said:

result of many of the racers themselves. Unfortunately, their
inconsideration and inability to respect the town and community has

resulted

Quoted message said:

in the Chief of Police denying any further request to hold this race in
Monson.

I have just been informed by the Town Selectmen that the Monson Road

Race

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

will no longer be approved due to several reasons: (1) Unsafe warming

up

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on the race course. Many racers thought they could warm up on the

course

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

prior to their event, forcing cars toward oncoming racers. You were

warned

Quoted message said:

not to warm up on the course, yet many of you disregarded this

announcement

Quoted message said:

and it resulted in unsafe conditions and one of the main reasons for the
denial of future events here. (2) Many riders off the back of the main
pack felt that the entire road was now theirs. Again, this resulted in

very

Quoted message said:

unsafe conditions and traffic backups. The Police felt that these
straggling riders were unprotected since they seemed to be riding all

over

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the road.

As many of you know, it is very difficult promoting bike races. I have
strived to provide the best racing conditions possible, trying to create
optimal racing conditions for everyone. After eight years of putting on

the

Quoted message said:

Monson race, it is my extreme displeasure to announce that it is over.

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

think that we, as conscientious racers, need to be more aware of our
surroundings when we race. We do not own the town when we race there

for

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

few hours, and need to be aware of the communities who are kind enough

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

allow us to utilize their roads. Unfortunately, Monson will no longer

be

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

one of those communities, but you have only yourselves to thank for

that.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Please be aware of what you do and how you conduct yourselves at future
events or else Monson will not be the last to begin denying events. As

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

usually the case, it is the actions of a few who ruin many things for

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

majority. For those of you who raced responsibly in Monson this year

and

Quoted message said:

in

Quoted message said:

years past, thank you.

This is from Mike Norton a NEBRA board member and promoter of several

races

Quoted message said:

here.
This has become a huge issue here with several races in serious danger.

All

Quoted message said:

you [censored] need to wake up and stop blaming everyone but yourselves.

You

Quoted message said:

have a huge chunk of the responsibility whether the races continue to

happen.

Quoted message said:

Bill C

Quoted message said:

From: "B. Lafferty" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Bill,

While I agree completely with what you say, I've seen and heard of this kind
of behavior for some many years that I really think you're spitting into the
wind.

Brian

You're probably right but I just live for having to explain to riders why
pissing on the front lawn of the church on a sunday morning is a bad thing.Then
there are the racers who spend half the race attacking on the wrong side of the
yellow, even after repeated warnings who want to know why they were relegated
or DQed. Dodging all of the empty water bottles that come flying out onto the
road before the last big 5%, 1/2 mile climb in the cat5s is really cool too.
And the perfect end to a long day is arguing with a racer or three who finish
in the last 1/3 of the results in a single day, or omnium scoring style stage
race about their bike computer time being 7-10 seconds different than their
posted time when it wouldn't change anything in the placings. They are
convinced that we should go back through and redo everything to accomodate them
because they obviously were keeping the official race time and we should get
full results with times and corrections up 2 minutes after the protest period
ends.
To be perfectly honest I'd guess these types are maybe 5% of the racers but
they really screw it up for everyone else. On the other end are the racers who
say thanks, pick up [censored] others tossed on the ground, wait until the official
isn't trying to do 7 things at once and have a resonable polite discussion
about things that happened, or questions they may have had.
I go out of my way to tell these people, and racers who worked their ass off,
rode clean, and smart thanks and great job out there.
That's one of the great things about being on a motor, you get to see who
makes the race, and how. A lot of times these people don't win but they really
make it a race. It's a blast to watch and fun to talk about after it's over to
find out why they did some of the things they did.
Maybe I'm a glutton for abuse, but the good massively outweighs the bad, and
if enough people work together we can make things better for everyone.
Bill C

In article <[email hidden]>, TM

Quoted message said:

"Wayne" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

they freaked out. Started
giving the guy the finger and cursing at him.

The same personality type as the drivers that give us a hard time. It all
depends on whose ox is being gored...

Here is another one that really bugged me from a race this past Sat. On
the first lap of the women's 4 RR a new rider went into a downhill turn
to fast and ended up crashing. She was in the middle of the lane pretty
badly hurt and she wasn't going to be moved until medical help could
get to her. since the downhill was a narrow two lane road having a
rider down in the middle of the right lane was a safety issue. As the
CR of the race I went to the top of the hill to tell riders they were
neutralized until the passed the crash area. when I told the masters
35+ 4/5 pack about the situation one rider said " did you neutralize
the break". I guess this rider didn't care about his safety, the
safety of the injured rider or the people trying to assist the injured
rider. All he cared about was trying to catch the break. This was early
on in a long hot hill road race so it was really important to catch the
break as soon as possible. If riders don't care about their safety I
would at least wish they would care about an injured rider's safety but
I guess doing well in a low key Cat 4/5 race is more important.

(TritonRider) said:

To be perfectly honest I'd guess these types are maybe 5% of the racers but
they really screw it up for everyone else.

Well yeah, but there are a larger percentage of whiners who really
drain on the handfulof doers in the world. Like I was warming up at
Monson (on a trainer BTW) having to listen to some guy complaining
about how he didn't pre-register because the promoter was so
unreasonable as to close online prereg on Wednesday or Thursday,
rather than Friday night. "Like it takes them a couple of days to
assign numbers" he grumbled. What a [censored] loser. If I hadn't been
busy and stressed I'd have told him off. There are way too many people
out there like that.

But yes, the handful of real [censored] are bad news.

JT

I'd be lying if I said I never [censored] in the woods (though it is very
rare for me) but at least have the good sense to really, totally hide
from every possible spectator, race official, homeowner, etc). Or
better yet, do it in a bottle in your car...

And hiding in the woods after walking across a huge playing field in
plain sight (I saw this at Palmer) is not really hiding.

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From: "B. Lafferty" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Bill,

While I agree completely with what you say, I've seen and heard of this

kind

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of behavior for some many years that I really think you're spitting into

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

wind.

Brian

You're probably right but I just live for having to explain to riders why
pissing on the front lawn of the church on a sunday morning is a bad

thing.

That all depends on the denomination that they're pissing on. It could be a
good thing and the correct thing to do.

Quoted message said:

Then
there are the racers who spend half the race attacking on the wrong side

of the

Quoted message said:

yellow, even after repeated warnings who want to know why they were

relegated

Quoted message said:

or DQed.

Easier to just put some sweeper SUVs on the other side of the road with
instructions to not give way.

Quoted message said:

Dodging all of the empty water bottles that come flying out onto the
road before the last big 5%, 1/2 mile climb in the cat5s is really cool

too.

Very funny. I have a picture of you picking one up, motoring up to the guy
and asking if it's his.

Quoted message said:

And the perfect end to a long day is arguing with a racer or three who

finish

Quoted message said:

in the last 1/3 of the results in a single day, or omnium scoring style

stage

Quoted message said:

race about their bike computer time being 7-10 seconds different than

their

Quoted message said:

posted time when it wouldn't change anything in the placings. They are
convinced that we should go back through and redo everything to accomodate

them

Quoted message said:

because they obviously were keeping the official race time and we should

get

Quoted message said:

full results with times and corrections up 2 minutes after the protest

period

Quoted message said:

ends.

Tell him the problem is an inaccuracy with his cyclocomputer and then ask if
it's still under warranty

Quoted message said:

To be perfectly honest I'd guess these types are maybe 5% of the racers

but

Quoted message said:

they really screw it up for everyone else. On the other end are the racers

who

Quoted message said:

say thanks, pick up [censored] others tossed on the ground, wait until the

official

Quoted message said:

isn't trying to do 7 things at once and have a resonable polite discussion
about things that happened, or questions they may have had.
I go out of my way to tell these people, and racers who worked their ass

off,

Quoted message said:

rode clean, and smart thanks and great job out there.

Yup. It's amazing how a small group can [censored] things up for everyone. Just
look at what the Bush/Cheney Junta has accomplished.

Quoted message said:

That's one of the great things about being on a motor, you get to see who
makes the race, and how. A lot of times these people don't win but they

really

Quoted message said:

make it a race. It's a blast to watch and fun to talk about after it's

over to

Quoted message said:

find out why they did some of the things they did.
Maybe I'm a glutton for abuse, but the good massively outweighs the bad,

and

Quoted message said:

if enough people work together we can make things better for everyone.

You're in danger of contracting contageous pollyanna disease. Be careful!
One last suggestion. Ride your bicycle more and leave the [censored] to their
own devices.

I toss waterbottles a lot in races -- almost always where I can get
them later.

I've suggested to at least one race promoter that it might be
worthwhile to actually tell racers they can throw bottles in a
particular place (sort of like an anti-feed zone), but not to throw
them in other places.

JT

Quoted message said:

From: John Forrest Tomlinson [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I toss waterbottles a lot in races -- almost always where I can get
them later.

I've suggested to at least one race promoter that it might be
worthwhile to actually tell racers they can throw bottles in a
particular place (sort of like an anti-feed zone), but not to throw
them in other places.

JT

I think your idea is a good one, and I don't say much when people toss bottles
for a decent reason. If I had to actually ride my bike up some of the finishing
hill's we race on I'd be tossing more than bottles. It's the random barrage
tossed out the back or onto the road that pisses me off. 99% of the time you
can't get a number for sure so it's tough to do anything about.
The other thing I like to see is the sag wagon, or a volunteer going behind
the last race and picking the stuff up. I know of a few races that do that.
Bill C

[email hidden] (TritonRider) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

You're probably right but I just live for having to explain to riders why
pissing on the front lawn of the church on a sunday morning is a bad thing.Then
there are the racers who spend half the race attacking on the wrong side of the
yellow, even after repeated warnings who want to know why they were relegated
or DQed. Dodging all of the empty water bottles that come flying out onto the
road before the last big 5%, 1/2 mile climb in the cat5s is really cool too.
And the perfect end to a long day is arguing with a racer or three who finish
in the last 1/3 of the results in a single day, or omnium scoring style stage
race about their bike computer time being 7-10 seconds different than their
posted time when it wouldn't change anything in the placings. They are
convinced that we should go back through and redo everything to accomodate them
because they obviously were keeping the official race time and we should get
full results with times and corrections up 2 minutes after the protest period
ends.

I can sympathise. There is way you can handle some of these things.

I'm not sure what rules your races are run under, but probably as an
official you can warn or fine riders. Even if you can't stop and talk
to the rider they can get a fine in the mail, which has to be paid off
or their license gets suspended. If a cat 5 wants to be pro and toss
thier water bottle and Gu packets, they can be pro too and pay a $20
fine for it.

Of course you do have to actually see the offense being committed for
you to penalize the rider. But, if the existence of the race is
jeopardized by rider behaviour I would not be merciful with penalties.

If someone wants to protest there are offical ways to do it, and under
our rules you have to put up a bond and file the protest in writing.
This is of course meant to eliminate frivolous protests.

I think the race officials should not announce a yellow line rule if
they dont plan on pulling riders for violating it. I did the races
this past weekend and tons of dudes were over the line many times in
front of the officials.

Also why dont they pull riders from the days racing who [censored] all over
the place. Maybe the officials dont see them but these [censored] need
to be made an example of.

The only rules I think our officials like to enforce are the ones that
dont make sence like drafting up in the caravan after a flat.

One race that is run very well is Blue Bell in PA. Total road closure
and tons of cops on Harleys leading the field. Those guys put on a
first class race.

Yeah, it's true that officials shouldn't talk about rules they are not
willing to enforce.

There is one merely so-so official in New England (as opposed to the
many great ones like Diane Fortini) who last fall was screaming at me
to ride on the side of the road as I headed back to the parking lot
after the finish of the event. And I WAS scrupulously on the side of
the road. I asked this official "Why are you yelling at me if I'm
doing what you want?" (I wanted to say "Why the [censored] are you yelling
at me if I'm doing what you want?"😉 and she said "Just want to make
sure."

Thanks a lot.

We've go a local official who won't stop telling people to put their
helmets on. That's fine. But she yells it over and over and over
again. It's so tedious. So a couple years ago I said "Why don't you
shut up and just fine the riders" and she started hemming and hawing
about how much work that was. Great. So she just undermines her own
authority by complaining and yelling about something she's not wiling
to do.

We need more riders being thoughtful at races so officials don't get
burned out and start acting like idiots. And so officiating isn't
such a burden that only a few people want to do it.

JT

Quoted message said:

From: [email hidden] (karlwithak)

Quoted message said:

I think the race officials should not announce a yellow line rule if
they dont plan on pulling riders for violating it. I did the races
this past weekend and tons of dudes were over the line many times in
front of the officials.

It really depends on why and how they are over. If it's at the bottom of a
climb for a second or two or to avoid a hazard etc.. basically if there is a
racing, or safety reason for it and everyone gets right back I'll be
reasonable, except at the races where it's "over and your out" such as
Sunnappee where the police have ticketed people, and have threatened to stop
the race on the spot if they see ANY problems. If I warn someone, or they use
it to advance I report it with a recommendation to the chief ref, and they make
the decision. If it keeps happening I'll radio for a decision and pull the
rider in the spot if that's the decision.

"Also why dont they pull riders from the days racing who [censored] all over
the place. Maybe the officials dont see them but these [censored] need
to be made an example of."

It's really the chief ref's call, most of ours here in NE have very little
tolerance for this and will take action on it. Sometimes you've just got to go,
then do what JT said, get way out of everybodies sight and most likely noone
will say much

"One race that is run very well is Blue Bell in PA. Total road closure
and tons of cops on Harleys leading the field. Those guys put on a
first class race."

That's probably every promoters dream, but in most places it just isn't
possible.
These are just my opinions in general, every promoter, chief ref, and race is
different so things will change slightly from race to race. I'm still new
enough at officiating that I might let a little more slide than some other
officials. The race should be about the racers and the racing, so I try very
hard to keep it safe and fair, other than that I want to be invisible.
Bill C

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

I toss waterbottles a lot in races -- almost always where I can get
them later.

I've suggested to at least one race promoter that it might be
worthwhile to actually tell racers they can throw bottles in a
particular place (sort of like an anti-feed zone), but not to throw
them in other places.

JT

when i raced a2a in georgia, we all tossed our empty water bottles at
the feed zones and the cool volunteer people handing out the full
bottles and food also picked up the empties for us. you're right, there
should be an anti feed zone in bike races.
hh

Maybe the real problem isn't the riders, but the
fact that city officials will not close down roads
long enough, enough of them, or both lanes, in order
to hold a safe bike race?

You should turn it around, and tell your Police Chief
that he didn't do his job, putting such tight racing
restrictions on your racers could get someone hurt
and a neglegence lawsuit filed against the city.
Don't take it up the ass, fight back.

"CowPunk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Maybe the real problem isn't the riders, but the
fact that city officials will not close down roads
long enough, enough of them, or both lanes, in order
to hold a safe bike race?

You should turn it around, and tell your Police Chief
that he didn't do his job, putting such tight racing
restrictions on your racers could get someone hurt
and a neglegence lawsuit filed against the city.
Don't take it up the ass, fight back.

So instead of pissing on church lawns, the police should set up rolling [censored]
enclosures?