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What you'd never hear from Lance

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Road Cycling
Published
18 July 2004
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29 July 2004
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TritonRider
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  1. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/jul04/jul19news

    Klöden has carte blanche
    Andreas Klöden is looking likely to be T-Mobile's best placed rider on GC at
    the end of the Tour, although there are still six stages to come. It was
    originally planned that the German champion would help Ullrich in the
    mountains, but after two days in the Pyrenees, Klöden is sitting fourth on GC
    at 3'18, while Ullrich is back in eighth at 7'01 - somewhat of a role reversal.

    After stage 13, Klöden told L'Equipe that, "It was another great day even if I
    wasn't able to follow Armstrong all the way to the end. I preferred to climb at
    my own rhythm. Earlier, Jan had given me carte blanche to do my best to stay
    with Armstrong for as long as possible. I'm still convinced that Jan is going
    to come back very strong in the Alps."

    Ullrich confirmed that he had no problems in letting Klöden take over the
    leadership, writing in his diary on T-Mobile's website, "For me 'Klödi' has
    been a revelation in this Tour. I hope he can maintain his current level all
    the way to Paris. He was clearly the better man in the Pyrenees, so I've given
    him 'Carte Blanche' in the Alps. I certainly won't split hairs over who works
    for whom.

    "Use 'Klödi' just as a helper when he's in the form of his life? No way! For a
    start, I know he is currently capable of leaving me in his wake. That's not a
    good thing for my morale. Secondly, I don't want to make the mistake of using
    him to pace me in the Alps. I need to ride at my own rhythm.

    "In all truth, I was quite content to plough my own furrow on the climb to
    Plateau de Beille. It will only make sense to enlist Klödi's help in the Alps
    if its to our mutual benefit. If I think he has the stronger legs, then he not
    only should, but must, go for it alone."

    Ullrich added that he is "fully concentrated on the final week...It will be one
    battle after another, with no respite until we roll into Paris on Sunday."

    Mancebo concedes
    Francisco Mancebo has no illusions about winning the Tour, realising after
    stage 13 that his chances are limited to a possible podium spot. "From this
    point on, the Tour will be decided between Armstrong and Basso," Mancebo told
    L'Equipe. "There's only third place to fight for, for which I am a candidate
    just like Klöden, Totschnig and don't forget Totschnig and Azevedo. I tried to
    attack and test Armstrong's group with the hope that some riders would follow.
    Unfortunately, nobody wanted to, or nobody could. The key to this stage and no
    doubt for the Tour is the collective strength of US Postal. If Armstrong wins,
    it's clear he owes that to his team."

    Sorry to post the whole thing, but it really is that important in my mind.
    Bill C

  2. Why should Lance allow another biker from USPS to go ahead of him when he's
    the No. 1 in the standings on the team? Until he implodes like Jan, there's
    no need.

  3. Quoted message said:

    From: "Braves Fan Deluxe" [email hidden]
    Date: 7/18/2004 6:58 PM Easter

    Quoted message said:

    Why should Lance allow another biker from USPS to go ahead of him when he's
    the No. 1 in the standings on the team? Until he implodes like Jan, there's
    no need.

    If you can conceive of any situation other than finishing a stage where Lance
    crashed badly that he'd help anyone else on his team I'd like to hear it.
    Right now it's not a question, but Jan has worked his ass off at times for
    teamates while Lance has promised to, and then didn't. Generally didn't even
    show up.
    Bill C

  4. In article <[email hidden]>,

    (TritonRider) said:

    If you can conceive of any situation other than finishing a stage where Lance
    crashed badly that he'd help anyone else on his team I'd like to hear it.
    Right now it's not a question, but Jan has worked his ass off at times for
    teamates while Lance has promised to, and then didn't. Generally didn't even
    show up.

    Right, you really know what was "promised". Some of the lance hating is
    stupid. Why criticize a guy for a hypothetical situation? I love how you
    posted the whole thing because "it is that important". None of this is
    important. It is a bike race.

  5. Quoted message said:

    From: [email hidden] (chiefhiawatha)

    Quoted message said:

    Right, you really know what was "promised". Some of the lance hating is
    stupid. Why criticize a guy for a hypothetical situation? I love how you
    posted the whole thing because "it is that important". None of this is
    important. It is a bike race.

    Let's look back at the interviews with Cylingnews etc.. when Lance indicated
    that he was going to ride the Vuelta in support of Heras.
    I'm not a Lance hater by any stretch, if you had a clue you'd know that.
    Lance is about Lance. Period!
    Jan has worked for teamates, and will continue to do so.
    I might be mistaken in this but how about the "Lance can do no wrong" types
    point out where Lance has given himself up for teamates since he had the
    cancer.
    Lance is a great cyclist. Lance is NOT a great human being.
    Bill C

  6. [email hidden] (TritonRider) wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    Lance is a great cyclist. Lance is NOT a great human being.
    Bill C

    I just love how people pass judgement on others they've never even met
    using stories that are, at best, second hand. Has Heras ever complained
    about Lance not helping in the Vuelta?

  7. "TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    From: [email hidden] (chiefhiawatha)

    Quoted message said:

    Right, you really know what was "promised". Some of the lance hating is
    stupid. Why criticize a guy for a hypothetical situation? I love how you
    posted the whole thing because "it is that important". None of this is
    important. It is a bike race.

    Let's look back at the interviews with Cylingnews etc.. when Lance


    indicated

    Quoted message said:

    that he was going to ride the Vuelta in support of Heras.
    I'm not a Lance hater by any stretch, if you had a clue you'd know that.
    Lance is about Lance. Period!
    Jan has worked for teamates, and will continue to do so.
    I might be mistaken in this but how about the "Lance can do no wrong"


    types

    Quoted message said:

    point out where Lance has given himself up for teamates since he had the
    cancer.
    Lance is a great cyclist. Lance is NOT a great human being.
    Bill C

    IIRC, the topic was beaten to death and no one could come up with a quote
    from LANCE specifically saying he would ride for Heras in the Vuelta.

  8. Quoted message said:

    From: "Carl Sundquist" [email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    IIRC, the topic was beaten to death and no one could come up with a quote
    from LANCE specifically saying he would ride for Heras in the Vuelta.

    The Key being "from Lance". Noone has ever claimed he was stupid either.
    Please feel free to provide examples of Lance sacrificing himself for teamates.
    Bill C

  9. In article <[email hidden]>,

    (TritonRider) said:

    The Key being "from Lance". Noone has ever claimed he was stupid either.
    Please feel free to provide examples of Lance sacrificing himself for


    teamates.

    Quoted message said:

    Bill C

    Nobody cares as deeply as you. For some reason, you need this
    thing about lance in your life.

  10. When has he needed to? He helped out Hincapie in Paris-Nice in 1998, as
    well as the SF Grand Prix on multiple occasions.
    You complain that Armstrong isn't offering help when he is winning a grand
    tour? Ullrich doesn't deserve to be a team leader, with his performance in
    this race so far.

    "TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    From: "Carl Sundquist" [email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    IIRC, the topic was beaten to death and no one could come up with a quote
    from LANCE specifically saying he would ride for Heras in the Vuelta.

    The Key being "from Lance". Noone has ever claimed he was stupid either.
    Please feel free to provide examples of Lance sacrificing himself for


    teamates.

    Quoted message said:

    Bill C

  11. "TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    From: [email hidden] (chiefhiawatha)

    Quoted message said:

    Right, you really know what was "promised". Some of the lance hating is
    stupid. Why criticize a guy for a hypothetical situation? I love how you
    posted the whole thing because "it is that important". None of this is
    important. It is a bike race.

    Let's look back at the interviews with Cylingnews etc.. when Lance


    indicated

    Quoted message said:

    that he was going to ride the Vuelta in support of Heras.
    I'm not a Lance hater by any stretch, if you had a clue you'd know that.
    Lance is about Lance. Period!
    Jan has worked for teamates, and will continue to do so.
    I might be mistaken in this but how about the "Lance can do no wrong"


    types

    Quoted message said:

    point out where Lance has given himself up for teamates since he had the
    cancer.
    Lance is a great cyclist. Lance is NOT a great human being.
    Bill C

    Ullrich has led out sprints on many occasions for Zabel, particularly in
    races that are important to Germans. He's even worked for Zabel in Tours
    when he, Ullrich, was the team leader. There has been discussion about the
    wisdom of Jan's using his energy that way.

    Armstrong did say in public that he would help Heras in the Vuelta and then
    didn't. Armstrong has on occasion worked for Hincapie in Flanders and a
    minor classic or two, but has never turned a pedal in the race that matters
    most to Hincapie, Paris-Roubaix. It can be argued that Hincapie's training
    plan is designed so that he will be the steady high speed pilot Armstrong
    needs in the Tour and not a riders with the explosiveness to make a move off
    the front in Paris Roubaix or follow such a move when made by the likes of
    Museeuw or Tafi.

    As Bill correctly points out, Lance is about and for Lance. It works for
    him and Postal. If riders don't like the structure thay can leave as many
    of them have chosen to do.

  12. "Brenton James" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >

    Quoted message said:

    Ullrich doesn't deserve to be a team leader, with his performance in
    this race so far.

    I think that's a little harsh. I'm disappointed in Ullrich's performance so
    far, but how many other team leaders would fall under your criticism?

  13. Well I said that because he has a teamate who is looking quite better. If
    Kloden wasn't there, I would say that Ullrich deserves to be team leader.

    "Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Brenton James" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >

    Quoted message said:

    Ullrich doesn't deserve to be a team leader, with his performance in
    this race so far.

    I think that's a little harsh. I'm disappointed in Ullrich's performance


    so

    Quoted message said:

    far, but how many other team leaders would fall under your criticism?

  14. On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 00:30:28 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    As Bill correctly points out, Lance is about and for Lance.

    As chiefhiawatha correctly points out:

    "Nobody cares as deeply as you. For some reason, you need this
    thing about lance in your life."

  15. "Charlie C." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    I just love how people pass judgement on others they've never even met
    using stories that are, at best, second hand.

    Ahem.

  16. (TritonRider) said:

    Mancebo concedes :

    Quoted message said:

    "... The key to this stage and no
    doubt for the Tour is the collective strength of US Postal. If Armstrong wins,
    it's clear he owes that to his team."

    It's clear he owes a whole lot to his team, which has been
    outstanding, and certainly has evolved dramatically from the much
    maligned 1999 version.

    But I noticed that all the other riders whom Postal paced in the last
    2 stages, including Mancebo, Totschnig and Ullrich, all rode the same
    train and couldn't hang, except Lance and Basso. And none of them
    will have a train up L'Alpe d'Huez or at Besançon.

    A good team is part of the equation - but the best all around rider
    wins the race. If I were a betting man, I know where I'd stake my
    cash and I'd be using my head and not my bias against the dominant
    Grand Tour rider of the new millennium.

  17. "TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/jul04/jul19news

    Klöden has carte blanche
    Andreas Klöden is looking likely to be T-Mobile's best placed rider on GC


    at

    Quoted message said:

    the end of the Tour, although there are still six stages to come. It was
    originally planned that the German champion would help Ullrich in the
    mountains, but after two days in the Pyrenees, Klöden is sitting fourth on


    GC

    Quoted message said:

    at 3'18, while Ullrich is back in eighth at 7'01 - somewhat of a role


    reversal.

    Kloden will blow bigtime in the Alps. He didn't come into the Tour expecting
    to be a leader and won't be able to handle the pressure. But watch him next
    year.

  18. "Charlie C." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (TritonRider) wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    Lance is a great cyclist. Lance is NOT a great human being.

    I just love how people pass judgement on others they've never even met
    using stories that are, at best, second hand. Has Heras ever complained
    about Lance not helping in the Vuelta?

    Hear, hear.

  19. "Doug Taylor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    (TritonRider) said:

    Mancebo concedes :

    Quoted message said:

    "... The key to this stage and no
    doubt for the Tour is the collective strength of US Postal. If Armstrong


    wins,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    it's clear he owes that to his team."

    It's clear he owes a whole lot to his team, which has been
    outstanding, and certainly has evolved dramatically from the much
    maligned 1999 version.

    And to think that they do it all from the goodness of their own hearts for
    free.

  20. "TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    From: "Carl Sundquist" [email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    IIRC, the topic was beaten to death and no one could come up with a quote
    from LANCE specifically saying he would ride for Heras in the Vuelta.

    The Key being "from Lance". Noone has ever claimed he was stupid either.
    Please feel free to provide examples of Lance sacrificing himself for


    teamates.

    Excuse me, but do you remember him giving Livingston a chance in the
    99 Dauphine?

    Do you suppose that Tyler won on his own the Dauphine in 2000?

    Exactly what do you suppose that Lance was doing as Floyd won the Tour of
    Algarve this year?

    Excuse me but didn't you have the same sort of nutty comments about Ariel
    Sharon because he had the unmitigated gall to protect his own people instead
    of deal with a terrorist that the Palestinians themselves are saying is a
    corrupt thief?

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