Chief wants police in cruiser, not on bike

Hmmm. If I had put a call in for help and the nearest cop was a mile away
I'd want him in a squad car and not on a bike, too. I think anyone would.

--

- GRL

"It's good to want things."

Steve Barr (philosopher, poet, humorist, chemist,
Visual Basic programmer)
"Garrison Hilliard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Monday, June 14, 2004
Chief wants police in cruiser, not on bike

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Quoted message said:

The Associated Press

COLUMBUS - The police chief wants to get rid of foot, bicycle and mounted
patrols to put more officers in cruisers.

Police Chief James Jackson, who also wants to take officers out of high
schools, outlined the proposal last month in a memo to Safety Director
Mitchell Brown.

He said he has tried repeatedly to put more officers in patrol cars but
has been overruled by Brown and Mayor Michael Coleman.

"A walking officer is good within about 50 feet of where he's walking or
standing," Jackson said.

Brown said his office is evaluating whether certain units can be
eliminated, adding that the city eliminated the DARE program last year and
an anti-crime rock band in 2001 at Jackson's urging.

City Councilman Michael Mentel, chairman of the council's safety
committee, said the mounted, bicycle, high-school and foot patrols should
be retained. Mentel said they encourage more direct contact between police
and citizens.

But an expert on community policing said it's more important that police
be available promptly.

"The highest priority for any police department is adequate response to
calls for public service," said Hubert Williams, president of the Police
Foundation, a nonprofit research organization in Washington, D.C. "If you
don't have adequate resources to do that, you have to make decisions about
cutting back in other areas."

Jackson cites a consultant's 2001 recommendation that the city deploy 420
cruisers a day. The city has 337, Jackson said.

Jackson announced last month that he won't allow nonpatrol positions to be
filled because of the need for more officers in cruisers.

"We have shortages out there, no doubt about it," said Bill Capretta,
president of the Fraternal Order of Police Lodge No. 9. "But not everybody
can be in a cruiser. You need support people, you need people
investigating homicides and rapes."

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Quoted message said:

"GRL" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hmmm. If I had put a call in for help and the nearest cop was a mile away
I'd want him in a squad car and not on a bike, too. I think anyone would.

True, but I'd also want an officer who can silently sneak up on a situation,
pursue the suspect down an alleyway and through the park, and outrun him
while toting 25 lbs of gear.

Bike mounted cops are also more personable. More neighborhood friendly. In a
car, they're more isolated from the environment and the citizens.

Some situations cars are better, some bikes are better. Sometimes horses are
better.

Pete

"GRL" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Hmmm. If I had put a call in for help and the nearest cop
was a mile away I'd want him in a squad car and not on a
bike, too. I think anyone would.

Which was the argument of the Monson, MA police officers.
I really can't blame them. Additional patrols by bicyle
and foot are really great when you have enough man power
in cruisers already.

--
William H. O'Hara KB1LEH

Quoted message said:

"Pete" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

True, but I'd also want an officer who can silently sneak up on a situation,
pursue the suspect down an alleyway and through the park, and outrun him
while toting 25 lbs of gear.

Bike mounted cops are also more personable. More neighborhood friendly. In a
car, they're more isolated from the environment and the citizens.

Some situations cars are better, some bikes are better. Sometimes horses are
better.

Pete

All of that is true but it seems that the city in question (Columbus where?) is
faced with an either/or proposition- keep the foot beats, bike patrol, and
mounted patrol and suffer slower response times because of a shortage of beat
cars or eliminate them to maintain adequate staffing in motor patrol. Reading
between the lines, I'd guess there's a political element to the proposed cuts
as well. It sounds like the chief is painting the public safety director and
mayor into a corner to force them to hire more officers. That may or may not be
a bad thing. It depends on the accuracy and reasonableness of their proposed
minimum staffing goals.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Quoted message said:

True, but I'd also want an officer who can silently sneak up on a situation,
pursue the suspect down an alleyway and through the park, and outrun him
while toting 25 lbs of gear.

That's why they're called 'foot patrols' <g>.

Quoted message said:

Some situations cars are better, some bikes are better. Sometimes horses are
better.

Indeed. Check out how the New Orleans Police Department uses its Mounted
Division during Mardi Gras. Ironically, the Bike Division is worthless in the
French Quarter at that time, because of pedestrian density.

James S. Prine
http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/

"Hunrobe" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

All of that is true but it seems that the city in question (Columbus

where?) is

Quoted message said:

faced with an either/or proposition- keep the foot beats, bike patrol, and
mounted patrol and suffer slower response times because of a shortage of

beat

Quoted message said:

cars or eliminate them to maintain adequate staffing in motor patrol.

Reading

Quoted message said:

between the lines, I'd guess there's a political element to the proposed

cuts

Quoted message said:

as well. It sounds like the chief is painting the public safety director

and

Quoted message said:

mayor into a corner to force them to hire more officers. That may or may

not be

Quoted message said:

a bad thing. It depends on the accuracy and reasonableness of their

proposed

Quoted message said:

minimum staffing goals.

Right. Overall response times shouldn't suffer so a city can have bike or
foot patrols, but they do have their place.

Pete

(Hunrobe) said:

All of that is true but it seems that the city in question >>>(Columbus where?)

Columbus, Ohio

On 15 Jun 2004 03:24:56 GMT in rec.bicycles.misc, [email hidden]

(Hunrobe) said:

All of that is true but it seems that the city in question (Columbus where?) is
faced with an either/or proposition- keep the foot beats, bike patrol, and
mounted patrol and suffer slower response times because of a shortage of beat
cars or eliminate them to maintain adequate staffing in motor patrol. Reading
between the lines, I'd guess there's a political element to the proposed cuts
as well. It sounds like the chief is painting the public safety director and
mayor into a corner to force them to hire more officers. That may or may not be
a bad thing. It depends on the accuracy and reasonableness of their proposed
minimum staffing goals.

if the goal is *preventing* crimes, then it's far better to keep
officers on foot and on bikes, where they get to know the
neighborhood and aren't isolated in cages.

if the goal is responding to crimes because the community doesn't
practice good crime prevention policing (including providing an
adequate budget for officers in schools and in neighborhoods), it
won't make much difference how many cars of cops are out riding
around, if they don't get out and talk to the folks they
supposedly work for at times other than when responding to a
crime.

this is yet another area where the cheap guy spends more ---
prevention is almost always cheaper than spending more later to
catch the criminals and keep them locked up.

On 15 Jun 2004 03:48:30 GMT, [email hidden] (James S. Prine)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

True, but I'd also want an officer who can silently sneak up on a situation,
pursue the suspect down an alleyway and through the park, and outrun him
while toting 25 lbs of gear.

That's why they're called 'foot patrols' <g>.

Quoted message said:

Some situations cars are better, some bikes are better. Sometimes horses are
better.

Indeed. Check out how the New Orleans Police Department uses its Mounted
Division during Mardi Gras. Ironically, the Bike Division is worthless in the
French Quarter at that time, because of pedestrian density.

James S. Prine
http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/

I got used to seeing mounted policemen in Central London. They'd clop
away, two abreast in the bus lane, and everyone had to yield to the
horses. The horses themselves were remarkably well-behaved and
well-disciplined animals: they would stop obediently at the
stoplights, and were not alarmed when overtaken by even the loudest,
clattering London doubledecker bus.

I also got to know them in their crowd-control capacities, at large
demonstrations and occasionally breaking up potential fights between
football supporters at pubs. They're quite imposing.

From a cyclist's point of view, they really compel you to use
mudguards on your bicycle . Having to ride at speed over a fresh
horseapple will convince you quickly of the value of mudguards.

=-Luigi

For the most part, I can see the point about wanting cops to be in cars
as far as response times go. One place where that's unlikely to apply,
however, is in the centre on the city. In Melbourne, which is neither a
particularly large, nor particularly congested city, I can move about a
great deal faster and more effectively by bike than I could in a car.
Still, while it lacks some of the social aspects, in environments like
that I'd probably be tempted to start looking at using more motorcycle
cops. hard to say without looking at where the specific trouble areas
are in the city. Response time may not even be an issue. If problem
areas are things like assaults involving homeless people or car theft or
vandalism, faster cops aren't going to help. More observant ones are.
So...do you need your cops to be faster or more aware or what? There
ain't no one single cure for ever't'ang.

--

Quoted message said:

The horses themselves were remarkably well-behaved and
well-disciplined animals: they would stop obediently at the
stoplights, and were not alarmed when overtaken by even the loudest,
clattering London doubledecker bus.

Yes; I've seen them training the Mounted Division horses here with fireworks
and even 'blanks' fired from pistols...the horses adapt to it quite well.

And yes, even in the 'solid mass of flesh' density of a New Orleans Mardi Gras,
the Officer on horseback can see and arrive at 'scenes' every bit as fast
as...and in many cases...faster, than Officers in automobiles.

They use the Bike units primarily in the Central Business District (non Mardi
Gras) where they offer fast, effective, low-cost service to the citizens.

James S. Prine
http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/

Quoted message said:

More observant ones are.
So...do you need your cops to be faster or more aware or what? There
ain't no one single cure for ever't'ang.

So true. For instance, a Bike Officer can get to a scene and take appropriate
action very swiftly, but if that action involves a physical arrest, the Bike
unit still has to wait for a motor transport vehicle to take the prisoner to
Central Lockup. That can be a lengthy wait sometimes....

James S. Prine
http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Dennis P. Harris)

Quoted message said:

if the goal is *preventing* crimes, then it's far better to keep
officers on foot and on bikes, where they get to know the
neighborhood and aren't isolated in cages.

if the goal is responding to crimes because the community doesn't
practice good crime prevention policing (including providing an
adequate budget for officers in schools and in neighborhoods), it
won't make much difference how many cars of cops are out riding
around, if they don't get out and talk to the folks they
supposedly work for at times other than when responding to a
crime.

this is yet another area where the cheap guy spends more ---
prevention is almost always cheaper than spending more later to
catch the criminals and keep them locked up.

First, most police officers have more interactions with a wider range of
citizens in a month than do most civilians in a year, regardless of their mode
of transportation. The reasons for most of those contacts are non-criminal in
nature. Police get called for every imaginable purpose for two reasons. First,
we represent authority so get called to "settle" even the most minor disputes.
Second, we are the *only* people that are open 24/7/365, will respond to any
call for service, and never send a bill. The end result is that a good beat
officer, even if he's "stuck in a cage", probably knows more about your
neighborhood and its residents than you do.
Secondly, the idea that police can prevent crime is mostly myth. Sure, if
there's a cop on the corner the incidence of most crimes goes down on that
corner while he's there but in reality we haven't prevented the crime, we've
merely relocated it because the only crime deterrent factor that police
represent to most people is the one of fear- the fear of being caught if one
commits a crime. I don't know of and can't even imagine an instance where
someone is contemplating a criminal act but has decided against doing it
because, "Gee, that would have a negative effect on the way Officer Friendly
views me and I really want him to like me.". <g>

Regards,
Bob Hunt

GRL said:

Hmmm. If I had put a call in for help and the nearest cop was a mile away
I'd want him in a squad car and not on a bike, too. I think anyone would.

"Dial 911 and Die" is true whether response time is 2 minutes or 20.
The TV scenario of cops getting a call, pulling a bootlegger turn in
the middle of traffic and arriving just in the nick of time to save
the day is mostly fantasy.

A couple of weeks ago late at night somebody drove by and threw a rock
through my neighbor's car window. The police response was something
like four minutes. The perps were probably in the next county by the
time the cops arrived to fill out paperwork.

RFM

James S. Prine said:

Quoted message said:

More observant ones are. So...do you need your cops to be faster or
more aware or what? There ain't no one single cure for ever't'ang.

So true. For instance, a Bike Officer can get to a scene and take
appropriate action very swiftly, but if that action involves a physical
arrest, the Bike unit still has to wait for a motor transport vehicle to
take the prisoner to Central Lockup. That can be a lengthy wait
sometimes....
James S. Prine
http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/

I was really thinking of proactive vs. reactive police work. The best
police work is the stuff that prevents crimes rather than trying to
apprehend someone once the crime has already been committed.

--

Garrison said:

Monday, June 14, 2004
Chief wants police in cruiser, not on bike...

COLUMBUS (Ohio)- The police chief wants to get rid of foot, bicycle and
mounted patrols to put more officers in cruisers...

....

Quoted message said:

(Police chief) Jackson cites a consultant's 2001 recommendation that the city > deploy 420 cruisers a day. The city has 337, Jackson said...

So where does he intend to find the funds to acquire another 83
police cars? And the fuel for them?? (What do you call the person who
graduated last in his class from the police academy? "Officer."😉
IPMBA stats indicate that you can mount up 10 bicycle officers for
the price of one Crown Vic. Columbus is a typical midwestern capital
city with state offices, downtown, neighborhoods, and I hear there's a
college there as well. 😉
I've heard many stories about the first responder on-scene being on
a bicycle. More support related herein:
http://home.earthlink.net/~kmssavage/writing.htm#Police%20Cyclist

HTH

--Karen M.

GRL said:

Hmmm. If I had put a call in for help and the nearest cop was a mile away
I'd want him in a squad car and not on a bike, too. I think anyone would.

I think cops should all be on foot, armed only with balloon weapons,
and naked except for some kind of humiliating hat.

If they go a whole year without killing anybody we can consider
letting them have pants, and perhaps wiffle bats.

Chalo Colina

"Fritz M" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

A couple of weeks ago late at night somebody drove by and threw a rock
through my neighbor's car window. The police response was something
like four minutes. The perps were probably in the next county by the
time the cops arrived to fill out paperwork.

4 whole minutes? What do you suggest? Stationing a cop in everyone's front
yard?

Pete

Resound said:

If problem
areas are things like assaults involving homeless people or car theft or
vandalism, faster cops aren't going to help. More observant ones are.
So...do you need your cops to be faster or more aware or what? There
ain't no one single cure for ever't'ang.

Sometimes the problem with cops is that they spend their time in
pursuits of no public benefit, like harassing members of one or
another marginalized group. In my experience, bike cops are more
likely to harass cyclists, while being basically impotent to deal with
dangerous car drivers. From where I stand this is a reason to put
them back in patrol cars.

Chalo Colina