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New (Old) Follis!! (warning: long rambling with rebuilding questions mixed in)

Started by Luigi de Guzman · · Last activity · 7 posts · 420 views

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Road Cycling
Published
15 June 2004
Last activity
16 June 2004
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Luigi de Guzman
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  1. My little brother is fourteen, and has never ridden a lightweight
    bicycle. He has constantly been bugging me to ride, but his Huffy
    weighs a ton, and it's a real chore for anything more than a quick
    trip around town. He's just finished the eighth grade, and I wished I
    could get him a reasonable road bike as a sort of graduation present.
    Of course, I haven't got the cash to make a whole new bike work.

    God, however, acting through the quick thinking and generous spirit of
    my friend Peter came through. A neighbour of this friend of mine was
    about to throw out an old bike. "It kind of looks like your tourer,"
    said Peter, who isn't really a bikie. "Do you want to have a look at
    it?"

    It's a Follis. Made in France. Lugged steel, pretty lugs, blue
    paint. A real headbadge. Simplex derailleurs. Stem-shifters.
    Randonneur handlebars (still with the original white plastic bar
    wrap). Mafac Racer centerpull brakes. 700C Mavic clincher rims,
    drilled for Schraeder tubes. And, most importantly for our purposes,
    it's 53 cm center-to-center, with 175mm (cottered) cranks. It's a
    great fit for my younger brother.

    Age and grime cover it, and there's some damage, which I'll go over in
    detail below. From what I can tell, it wasn't ridden for many
    miles--the tread on the tires isn't worn down much, the handlebar wrap
    is in excellent shape. The braking surface of the rims shows few
    abrasions, just regular crosshatches--I guess these were machined into
    the rim to improve braking? It would appear that it was ridden seldom,
    had one part failure, and simply languished on a hook for twenty
    years. I say that, because the bikeshop sticker on it is for a shop
    in Blacksburg (Va), and still shows Blacksburg in the 703 area code.
    That must have been a LONG time ago.

    It is of course a fixer-upper. The tires and tubes will want
    replacement--the dry rot and neglect have reduced them to goo.
    Probably new rim strips, while I'm about it as well.

    The front derailleur has somehow snapped off at the clamp, so that
    will have to go. I can't simply swap over the derailleur from my old
    Raleigh, since this is a clamp-on jobbie, and the Raleigh used a
    braze-on front derailleur. Would it be all right if I just removed
    the front derailleur and thus made it, temporarily at least, a
    five-speed bicycle? I understand the chain line will be rather less
    than ideal, but I want to make this rideable for my brother as soon as
    possible. Should I shorten the chain when I do this? The chain is
    extremely grotty-looking: should I buy a new one, or attempt to clean
    the present one?

    [ He doesn't need a 53-tooth chainring now, anyway. He's not strong
    enough to push 53/11, at fourteen. Heck, I can't even do that, and
    I'm 23!]

    And the pedals. They're simple rat-trap jobs, with reflectors on both
    sides. I want to fit him with toeclips as soon as he's confident
    enough to wear them. Do I just pry off the reflector on one side of
    the pedal and screw on the toeclips? The reflectors seem to be
    pressed onto the pedals, and aren't scrwed in--it looks like a pry
    with a screwdriver will snap them off to expose the holes drilled to
    accept toeclips. Since this is a French bike with cottered cranks,
    I'm assuming the pedal threads to be 14mm, and so getting new pedals
    isn't an option (yes, I know Sheldon Brown has Lyotard pedals in that
    threading in stock, but I'm doing this on the super-super cheap, and
    can't afford to buy new pedals!)

    The rear derailleur looks serviceable. It could do with some cleaning
    and lubrication. It seems to be bolted on via an adaptor claw of some
    sort; too soon to tell whether or not this could be replaced with the
    (presumably better, 1985 vintage) Shimano 105 unit from the Raleigh.

    So here's the plan:

    Short term: New tires, tubes (presta tubes in schraeder drillings
    work, sizewise: do I risk flats from grit getting in though?) , new
    chain(?), remove broken front derailleur & cable & shifter. Clean
    frame & freewheel. Fit toeclips.

    Longer term: Replace derailleurs with more useful units, preferrably
    serviceable partsbin stuff. Replace shifters with bar-end shifters
    (frame has no downtube shifter bosses, but has cable guides. With the
    randonneur bars, I assume this was intended for use with barcons).

    I'll get photos of the project up in its several stages on the
    Livejournal soon. In the meantime, any help that you all might be
    able to offer is as ever appreciated. Once this is all over, I'll be
    able to take him with me for rides in the country. That would be
    cool.

    -Luigi
    Pimpin' my lilbro's ride.

    www.livejournal.com/users/ouij
    Photos, Rants, Raves

  2. "Luigi de Guzman" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:


    The front derailleur has somehow snapped off at the clamp, so that
    will have to go. I can't simply swap over the derailleur from my old
    Raleigh, since this is a clamp-on jobbie, and the Raleigh used a
    braze-on front derailleur. Would it be all right if I just removed
    the front derailleur and thus made it, temporarily at least, a
    five-speed bicycle?

    Yes.

    Quoted message said:

    I understand the chain line will be rather less
    than ideal, but I want to make this rideable for my brother as soon as
    possible. Should I shorten the chain when I do this?

    Only if small-small leave too much slack. Maybe take out one link as
    compared to the existing chain.

    Quoted message said:

    The chain is
    extremely grotty-looking: should I buy a new one, or attempt to clean
    the present one?

    ..Chains are cheap. Replace

    Quoted message said:

    [ He doesn't need a 53-tooth chainring now, anyway. He's not strong
    enough to push 53/11, at fourteen. Heck, I can't even do that, and
    I'm 23!]

    And the pedals. They're simple rat-trap jobs, with reflectors on both
    sides. I want to fit him with toeclips as soon as he's confident
    enough to wear them. Do I just pry off the reflector on one side of
    the pedal and screw on the toeclips?

    Yes. Or fit PowerGrips.

    Pete

  3. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Luigi de Guzman said:

    I'll get photos of the project up in its several stages on the
    Livejournal soon. In the meantime, any help that you all might be
    able to offer is as ever appreciated. Once this is all over, I'll be
    able to take him with me for rides in the country. That would be
    cool.

    Hey, what Pete said.

    I learned much of my own cycling basics from my own older
    brothers; I think you're on the right track. Just be sure
    to include your brother in everything done to whatever bike
    you fix up, and don't do anything behind his back. And have
    the patience to explain stuff as you go along, and include him
    in all operations. If you have to go to a bike shop to get new
    tires or whatever -- be sure to take your brother with you.
    Every kid should experience that hardware store/packing grease +
    new rubber smell that real bike shops exude. Buy some cone wrenches
    or whatever and give them to him. He'll do you proud.
    At least, that's what I've tried to do (and still do) for my
    own older brothers. In my youth I failed a couple of times, but
    I kept at it (sort of). So please be forgiving, too. Cyclist
    older brothers are precious. You have both a responsibility
    and a pleasure.

    cheers,
    Tom

    --
    -- Powered by FreeBSD
    Above address is just a spam midden.
    I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

  4. In article <[email hidden]>, luigi12081
    @cox.net says...

    Quoted message said:

    My little brother is fourteen, and has never ridden a lightweight
    bicycle. He has constantly been bugging me to ride, but his Huffy
    weighs a ton, and it's a real chore for anything more than a quick
    trip around town. He's just finished the eighth grade, and I wished I
    could get him a reasonable road bike as a sort of graduation present.
    Of course, I haven't got the cash to make a whole new bike work.

    My daughter (7th grade) took a ride on an old ten-speed Columbia I had
    set up as a beater bike for myself, and immediately fell in love with
    it's speed and ease of pedaling.

    Quoted message said:

    It's a Follis. Made in France. Lugged steel, pretty lugs, blue
    paint. A real headbadge. Simplex derailleurs. Stem-shifters.
    Randonneur handlebars (still with the original white plastic bar
    wrap). Mafac Racer centerpull brakes. 700C Mavic clincher rims,
    drilled for Schraeder tubes. And, most importantly for our purposes,
    it's 53 cm center-to-center, with 175mm (cottered) cranks. It's a
    great fit for my younger brother.

    What a find!

    Quoted message said:

    Age and grime cover it, and there's some damage, which I'll go over in
    detail below. From what I can tell, it wasn't ridden for many
    miles--the tread on the tires isn't worn down much, the handlebar wrap
    is in excellent shape. The braking surface of the rims shows few
    abrasions, just regular crosshatches--I guess these were machined into
    the rim to improve braking? It would appear that it was ridden seldom,
    had one part failure, and simply languished on a hook for twenty
    years. I say that, because the bikeshop sticker on it is for a shop
    in Blacksburg (Va), and still shows Blacksburg in the 703 area code.
    That must have been a LONG time ago.

    It is of course a fixer-upper. The tires and tubes will want
    replacement--the dry rot and neglect have reduced them to goo.
    Probably new rim strips, while I'm about it as well.

    The front derailleur has somehow snapped off at the clamp, so that
    will have to go. I can't simply swap over the derailleur from my old

    You can probably find a used front der on ebay for less than $20.

    Quoted message said:

    Raleigh, since this is a clamp-on jobbie, and the Raleigh used a
    braze-on front derailleur. Would it be all right if I just removed
    the front derailleur and thus made it, temporarily at least, a

    That should work fine.

    Quoted message said:

    five-speed bicycle? I understand the chain line will be rather less
    than ideal, but I want to make this rideable for my brother as soon as
    possible. Should I shorten the chain when I do this? The chain is

    No, just leave it on the small (or middle if it's a triple) ring and let
    the rear derailleur take up the slack.

    Quoted message said:

    extremely grotty-looking: should I buy a new one, or attempt to clean
    the present one?

    Get a new one unless you have some good degreaser available; it's not
    worth the effort.

    Quoted message said:

    And the pedals. They're simple rat-trap jobs, with reflectors on both
    sides. I want to fit him with toeclips as soon as he's confident
    enough to wear them. Do I just pry off the reflector on one side of
    the pedal and screw on the toeclips? The reflectors seem to be
    pressed onto the pedals, and aren't scrwed in--it looks like a pry
    with a screwdriver will snap them off to expose the holes drilled to
    accept toeclips. Since this is a French bike with cottered cranks,
    I'm assuming the pedal threads to be 14mm, and so getting new pedals
    isn't an option (yes, I know Sheldon Brown has Lyotard pedals in that
    threading in stock, but I'm doing this on the super-super cheap, and
    can't afford to buy new pedals!)

    You could just leave the pedals as they are. People ride flat rat-trap
    pedals all the time, especially kids.

    Quoted message said:

    The rear derailleur looks serviceable. It could do with some cleaning
    and lubrication. It seems to be bolted on via an adaptor claw of some
    sort; too soon to tell whether or not this could be replaced with the
    (presumably better, 1985 vintage) Shimano 105 unit from the Raleigh.

    If it works, don't bother.

    Quoted message said:

    So here's the plan:

    Short term: New tires, tubes (presta tubes in schraeder drillings
    work, sizewise: do I risk flats from grit getting in though?) , new

    You can get adapters to fill in the extra space in the schrader holes; I
    picked up some so I wouldn't have to keep both kinds of tubes around.

    Quoted message said:

    chain(?), remove broken front derailleur & cable & shifter. Clean
    frame & freewheel. Fit toeclips.

    Toe clips optional.

    .....

    Good luck!

    --
    Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
    newsgroups if possible).

  5. Luigi de Guzman said:

    ...
    It's a Follis. Made in France. Lugged steel, pretty lugs, blue
    paint. A real headbadge. Simplex derailleurs. Stem-shifters.
    Randonneur handlebars (still with the original white plastic bar
    wrap). Mafac Racer centerpull brakes. 700C Mavic clincher rims,
    drilled for Schraeder tubes. And, most importantly for our purposes,
    it's 53 cm center-to-center, with 175mm (cottered) cranks. It's a
    great fit for my younger brother.

    This is really cool!

    Quoted message said:

    ...
    It is of course a fixer-upper...

    Even better. He gets to "help" you work on it, he learns a bit about
    practical work and its benefits, and he takes more responsibility for
    the bike.

    Suggestion: If you don't already have one, get a good book on bike
    repair. (If you get it at the library, he learns yet another valuable
    lesson!)

    Quoted message said:

    The front derailleur has somehow snapped off at the clamp, so that
    will have to go. I can't simply swap over the derailleur from my old
    Raleigh, since this is a clamp-on jobbie, and the Raleigh used a
    braze-on front derailleur. Would it be all right if I just removed
    the front derailleur and thus made it, temporarily at least, a
    five-speed bicycle?

    Should work, although used front derailleurs should be easy to find.
    You could ask at your LBS. Or maybe even visit a local thrift store,
    where you can sometimes get an entire bike's supply of "spare parts,"
    fully assembled, for about $10.

    Quoted message said:

    I understand the chain line will be rather less
    than ideal, but I want to make this rideable for my brother as soon as
    possible. Should I shorten the chain when I do this?

    I doubt it. The rear derailleur will probably handle things fine.

    Quoted message said:

    The chain is
    extremely grotty-looking: should I buy a new one, or attempt to clean
    the present one?

    Chains are cheap, but cleaning it is cheaper. As you describe the
    mileage, I'd doubt it's worn. I'd probably re-use it unless it gives
    problems. (You could measure its wear. See Sheldon Brown's site.)

    Quoted message said:


    And the pedals. They're simple rat-trap jobs, with reflectors on both
    sides. I want to fit him with toeclips as soon as he's confident
    enough to wear them. Do I just pry off the reflector on one side of
    the pedal and screw on the toeclips?

    Yep. But I'd wait until he's _really_ confident. You can make toe
    clips a badge of honor to work towards.

    Quoted message said:

    Since this is a French bike with cottered cranks,
    I'm assuming the pedal threads to be 14mm, and so getting new pedals
    isn't an option (yes, I know Sheldon Brown has Lyotard pedals in that
    threading in stock, but I'm doing this on the super-super cheap, and
    can't afford to buy new pedals!)

    Yes, French threading is a limitation. But if the bearings are
    accessible, (i.e. anything above galvanized stamped steel pedals)
    overhauling pedals is easy, and yet another learning experience. You
    probably won't have to do anything but clean and re-lube the bearing
    balls and races, and no special tools are needed. You can even do it
    with pedals on the bike.

    Quoted message said:


    The rear derailleur looks serviceable. It could do with some cleaning
    and lubrication. It seems to be bolted on via an adaptor claw of some
    sort; too soon to tell whether or not this could be replaced with the
    (presumably better, 1985 vintage) Shimano 105 unit from the Raleigh.

    If the Simplex rear derailleur isn't a slant-pantograph design (like all
    modern derailleurs, copies of SunTour's patent) the Shimano will shift
    much better. It's worth the trouble to replace it, IMO. I'm not sure
    if a Simplex "adaptor claw" will work with Shimano, but it shouldn't be
    hard to find out.

    Hmmm. If you've got an ancient bike shop nearby with a packrat owner,
    you're going to come to love him!

    Quoted message said:


    Short term: New tires, tubes (presta tubes in schraeder drillings
    work, sizewise: do I risk flats from grit getting in though?)

    I'm not sure, but I'd ask about those Schrader-to-Presta rubber
    bushings. Maybe ten cents each.

    Quoted message said:

    new chain(?),

    Maybe not.

    Quoted message said:

    remove broken front derailleur & cable & shifter.

    Oh, heck, give him a used front derailleur.

    Quoted message said:

    Clean frame & freewheel.

    Yep.

    Quoted message said:

    Fit toeclips.

    I'd wait.

    Quoted message said:


    Longer term: Replace derailleurs with more useful units, preferrably
    serviceable partsbin stuff. Replace shifters with bar-end shifters
    (frame has no downtube shifter bosses, but has cable guides. With the
    randonneur bars, I assume this was intended for use with barcons).

    Barcons are nicer, but stem shifters are quite serviceable. Barcons
    could be a birthday present some day.

    Quoted message said:


    I'll get photos of the project up in its several stages on the
    Livejournal soon. In the meantime, any help that you all might be
    able to offer is as ever appreciated. Once this is all over, I'll be
    able to take him with me for rides in the country. That would be
    cool.

    Congratulations. Excellent project! I think it's really cool that
    you're doing this with him.

    --
    --------------------+
    Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
    replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

  6. Frank Krygowski said:
    Luigi de Guzman said:

    ...
    It's a Follis. Made in France. Lugged steel, pretty lugs, blue
    paint. A real headbadge. Simplex derailleurs. Stem-shifters.
    Randonneur handlebars (still with the original white plastic bar
    wrap). Mafac Racer centerpull brakes. 700C Mavic clincher rims,
    drilled for Schraeder tubes. And, most importantly for our purposes,
    it's 53 cm center-to-center, with 175mm (cottered) cranks. It's a
    great fit for my younger brother.

    This is really cool!

    I use to work on those all the time in the "old" days. You may have
    some trouble finding new shoes for those Mafac brakes if they are the
    ones I'm thinking of.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The chain is
    extremely grotty-looking: should I buy a new one, or attempt to clean
    the present one?

    Chains are cheap, but cleaning it is cheaper. As you describe the
    mileage, I'd doubt it's worn. I'd probably re-use it unless it gives
    problems. (You could measure its wear. See Sheldon Brown's site.)

    I'd clean it to. Buy a can of degreaser, or put it in a steel can and
    spray some oven cleaner in (avoid everything else). Soak, rinse, wash,
    dry, oil. If you have a chain tool it's almost free.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Since this is a French bike with cottered cranks,
    I'm assuming the pedal threads to be 14mm, and so getting new pedals
    isn't an option (yes, I know Sheldon Brown has Lyotard pedals in that
    threading in stock, but I'm doing this on the super-super cheap, and
    can't afford to buy new pedals!)

    If you can find a shop with taps, you can run it through and go with
    a standard pedal. We used to do that, even on alloy cranks. You just
    have to be careful.

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, French threading is a limitation. But if the bearings are
    accessible, (i.e. anything above galvanized stamped steel pedals)
    overhauling pedals is easy, and yet another learning experience. You
    probably won't have to do anything but clean and re-lube the bearing
    balls and races, and no special tools are needed. You can even do it
    with pedals on the bike.

    Good suggestion.

    Quoted message said:

    If the Simplex rear derailleur isn't a slant-pantograph design (like all
    modern derailleurs, copies of SunTour's patent) the Shimano will shift
    much better. It's worth the trouble to replace it, IMO. I'm not sure
    if a Simplex "adaptor claw" will work with Shimano, but it shouldn't be
    hard to find out.

    Siplex used a different design which the early shimano's copied. While
    the plastic version was not perfect, it's actually a fairly good
    shifter. I wouldn't change it unless you have a lot of chain to
    handle. The short simplex cage would not handle lots of chain and they
    had an extended version for that.

    Quoted message said:


    Barcons are nicer, but stem shifters are quite serviceable. Barcons
    could be a birthday present some day.

    Yeah, stems are good for new riders. Much easier to work./

    I'll drop you an email. I might have some stuff in my parts bin that
    you could use. It'll be dirt cheap if you want any of it. I'd rather
    see someone get some use out of it than see it sit in a box for the
    rest of my life.

  7. "Luigi de Guzman" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    [snip]

    Quoted message said:

    [ He doesn't need a 53-tooth chainring now, anyway. He's not
    strong enough to push 53/11, at fourteen. Heck, I can't even
    do that, and I'm 23! ]

    Just a small point - the smallest sprocket on the Follis is probably a 13
    or 14. If the chain is happy to stay put on one chainring or the other, the
    bike can be ridden without the front derailleur, and the chain shifted
    manually if the need arises. If the chain tends to derail easily at the
    front (as is sometimes the case with single-chainring bikes) the simplest
    solution is to fit a front derailleur.

    Good luck.

    James Thomson

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