Booking Bikes on Virgin - Easy

In news:[email hidden],
[Not Responding] <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Some rail related Q's:

Are bike compartments indicated on the doors of trains (I recall some
discussion of this point)?

Normally, but I couldn't say with FGN & SWT. On the Voyagers they're at the
end of standard class accommodation. (Coach F)

Quoted message said:

On a Voyager (if that's what VT run between Southampton & Sheffield),

Almost certainly. That said, I got on a Pendolino that was running between
Birmingham & Manchester (also a Cross country (Voyager) route) the other
day. Had to wheel my bike into a disabled space as there was noone to open
the bike compartment for me.

Quoted message said:

can I expect a sort of bike rack that needs the bike to be lifted into
place? Can I walk from the bike rack to my seat or do I need to exit
the train and reboard as in the days of guards' vans?

Yes, hangs from the front wheel fairly easily. It's at the end of coach F,
easily accessed from the rest of the train.

Quoted message said:

What do people
do about security (I assume you're not allowed to lock the bike to the
train); I intend to lock my panniers to the bike and they won't have
much of value in them anyway.

I normally lock it to the retaining clip for the rear wheel. No one's ever
mentioned it.

Quoted message said:

Final rail Q: Having not travelled with VT before, can I expect to get
grub? The web site is incredibly vague and I can't work out (a) if
food is available and (b) if it is, how I get hold of it. I think I
can assume there isn't a dining car.

There's a shop on a Voyager. It sells fairly good sandwiches, and pretty
good coffee.

Good journey.

A

Ambrose Nankivell said:

Yes, hangs from the front wheel fairly easily. It's at the end of
coach F, easily accessed from the rest of the train.

Which is totally useless ig you have full length mudguards at the rear. The
space is not really large enough for a touring bike.

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:36:47 GMT, "Richard" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Are bike compartments indicated on the doors of trains (I recall some
discussion of this point)?

On Voyager it's at the non-FirstClass ie non-Yellow coupler end of the
train.

Quoted message said:

On a Voyager (if that's what VT run between Southampton & Sheffield),
can I expect a sort of bike rack that needs the bike to be lifted into

Yes

Quoted message said:

place? Can I walk from the bike rack to my seat or do I need to exit

No it's just past the normal vestibule in the end coach.

Quoted message said:

the train and reboard as in the days of guards' vans? What do people
do about security (I assume you're not allowed to lock the bike to the

You could try but I cant think of anything suitable to lock it to!

Quoted message said:

train); I intend to lock my panniers to the bike and they won't have
much of value in them anyway.

Final rail Q: Having not travelled with VT before, can I expect to get
grub? The web site is incredibly vague and I can't work out (a) if

There will be a shop. Bacon paninis are nice.

Or if it's the weekend, go weekend first for an extra 15 quid or so.

Bugger. Didn't think of that; I've just bought a first open return. I
suppose it would have only partially worked as I'm travelling up on
Friday.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

food is available and (b) if it is, how I get hold of it. I think I
can assume there isn't a dining car.

A cycling Q: what's this Winnat's Pass like? I have no intention of
riding across all those contour lines but it might be on the agenda
for those of the stag party who are not nursing injuries. I'll have
almost doubled my in year mileage if I make the 5 miles from home to
the station.

Richard said:

"Martin 'MSeries' Newstead" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Which is totally useless ig you have full length mudguards at the
rear. The space is not really large enough for a touring bike.

Either remove them or hang it from the rear wheel! There are of
course two hooks of varying height, for differing length bikes....

None of the above were viable options for me. There was no problem, the bike
did fit into the space but was cramped and thankfully no other bikes were
loaded.

Quoted message said:

Are bike compartments indicated on the doors of trains (I recall some
discussion of this point)?

On Voyager it's at the non-FirstClass ie non-Yellow coupler end of the
train.

Quoted message said:

On a Voyager (if that's what VT run between Southampton & Sheffield),
can I expect a sort of bike rack that needs the bike to be lifted into

Yes

Quoted message said:

place? Can I walk from the bike rack to my seat or do I need to exit

No it's just past the normal vestibule in the end coach.

Quoted message said:

the train and reboard as in the days of guards' vans? What do people
do about security (I assume you're not allowed to lock the bike to the

You could try but I cant think of anything suitable to lock it to!

Quoted message said:

train); I intend to lock my panniers to the bike and they won't have
much of value in them anyway.

Final rail Q: Having not travelled with VT before, can I expect to get
grub? The web site is incredibly vague and I can't work out (a) if

There will be a shop. Bacon paninis are nice.

Or if it's the weekend, go weekend first for an extra 15 quid or so.

Quoted message said:

food is available and (b) if it is, how I get hold of it. I think I
can assume there isn't a dining car.

A cycling Q: what's this Winnat's Pass like? I have no intention of
riding across all those contour lines but it might be on the agenda
for those of the stag party who are not nursing injuries. I'll have
almost doubled my in year mileage if I make the 5 miles from home to
the station.

"Martin 'MSeries' Newstead" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Which is totally useless ig you have full length mudguards at the rear.

The

Quoted message said:

space is not really large enough for a touring bike.

Either remove them or hang it from the rear wheel! There are of course two
hooks of varying height, for differing length bikes....

Not Responding said:

A cycling Q: what's this Winnat's Pass like? I have no intention of
riding across all those contour lines but it might be on the agenda
for those of the stag party who are not nursing injuries. I'll have
almost doubled my in year mileage if I make the 5 miles from home to
the station.

OK, I'm posting from uk.railway - but I think I can answer that one in
two words - *bloody* steep - and that was in a car, not cycling.

A quick Google will bring up some pictures to give you an idea.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To e-mail use neil at the above domain

Not Responding said:

Some rail related Q's:

Quoted message said:

On a Voyager (if that's what VT run between Southampton & Sheffield),

Beware of the Virgin trains that start in Reading instead of Southampton :-(

Quoted message said:

Final rail Q: Having not travelled with VT before, can I expect to get
grub?

Of course. The buffet is open between Poole and Southampton, but only
when the train starts in Reading. It will also close 10 minutes before
you leave your seat due to staff shortages ;-(

Quoted message said:

A cycling Q: what's this Winnat's Pass like?

It's steeeep. if you have rear panniers only your front wheel WILL lift.
I think its 1 in 4 but it was twice that steep when i last rode it with
my camping stuff on board.

Enjoy your trip.

John B

Not Responding said:

Bugger. Didn't think of that; I've just bought a first open return. I
suppose it would have only partially worked as I'm travelling up on
Friday.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

food is available and (b) if it is, how I get hold of it. I think I
can assume there isn't a dining car.

In First they have a steward who will serve you sandwiches, coffee, tea
etc. at your seat. Unless they have run out or find they have out of
date sandwiches in which case you can get them from the shop free if you
show your First Class ticket.

Tony

Not Responding said:

It was all incredibly easy. [...]

Glad that all went well, but not that I want to pour cold tea on your
cornflakes, but I just hope the actual journey is as smooth (no delayed or
cancelled trains, etc).

My son's ~4 year experience with Virgin between Oxford and
Sheffield|Manchester is so seared into his brain, that he is now a 110%
dedicated fan of the car, motorway delays and all.
Thank you Virgin. Not. :-(

--
mike at ellwoods org uk

In article <[email hidden]>, "[Not
Responding]" <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

A cycling Q: what's this Winnat's Pass like?

1 in 5 (20%) for the best part of a kilometre.

I cycled up it once in the 1980s (staying in Hope, wanted to go to the
Blue John mine). More precisely, we pushed the bikes up it.

I've just spent a week in the area having to drive up and down it
several times. Second gear job if you can keep moving from before the
cattle grid, but once you drop to first you're in it for the duration.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home: <[email hidden]>
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: <http://www.davros.org>
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: <[email hidden]>
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: <[email hidden]>

In article <[email hidden]>, richard2002
@ntlworld.com says...

Quoted message said:

Why do people refer to case study (n=1) rather than useful statistics
(n=10000s).

Because personal experience tends to have a more direct effect on our
perception. (I know... it was a rhetorical question!)

Quoted message said:

somewhere aroundabout 80% of trains arrive at their destination within 10
minutes of the scheduled time.

Which translates to 20% of trains fail to arrive within even 10 minutes
of the scheduled time. So on a multiple carrier journey with nominal 15
minute connections, 20% of the time a given user will fail to complete
the journey. By missing their connection they may be delayed further.

Also, why "within 10 minutes"? This definition implies that within 10
minutes is considered to be "on-time". Given that the trains travel a
known route and have known capabilities with regard to performance, why
do they not run perfectly to a known schedule. If the schedule is
unobtainable then they should allow for that in the scheduling.

Jon

Richard said:

Why do people refer to case study (n=1) rather than useful statistics
(n=10000s).

Rather more than n=1. Every single one of his return journeys between
Oxford and either Sheffield or Manchester in the period 2000-2004 suffered
a delay or cancellation, on at least the outward or return phase,
sometimes both, often serious delays. That's a 100% failure rate in the
perception of one young passenger, with a lifetime of journeys ahead of
him, none of which will now be made on Virgin thanks very much, or
probably not UK rail at all. Interestingly, he was full of praise for the
Spanish railways, after only an admittedly small sample, too small for Mr
Statistician above no doubt, but if you are trying to sell a service (I
take it that's what VR is trying to do?), the perceptions of the customer
are everything.

Quoted message said:

somewhere aroundabout 80% of trains arrive at their destination within 10
minutes of the scheduled time.

And that's success? I can - and have, not necessarily with Virgin - missed
plenty of connections in 10 minutes.

--
mike at ellwoods org uk

"Mike Ellwood" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Glad that all went well, but not that I want to pour cold tea on your
cornflakes, but I just hope the actual journey is as smooth (no delayed or
cancelled trains, etc).

My son's ~4 year experience with Virgin between Oxford and
Sheffield|Manchester is so seared into his brain, that he is now a 110%
dedicated fan of the car, motorway delays and all.

Why do people refer to case study (n=1) rather than useful statistics
(n=10000s).

somewhere aroundabout 80% of trains arrive at their destination within 10
minutes of the scheduled time.

The problem I had with Virgin (Derby to Penzance) was getting a cheap
ticket. Very vague info but it turned out that I had to book exactly
14 days or less before travel time by phone only. Result £19 inc. bike
instead of £76.
Couldn't book Wick to Derby as wasn't sure of return date so that cost
£90. Either way no prob with bike, people all helpful.
Some stations have lifts to flat access to platforms - worth asking
beforehand on the train if you have to hurry to catch connection.
Hanging bike (tourer with mudguards) off hooks OK but had to remove
bags or too heavy to get off the hook - sort of lift and twist
sideways - more difficult if there is another bike next to it and even
harder if you are slightly [censored] and tired as I was at Crewe 5 in
morning.
Winnats pass steep so pace yourself very gently in bottom gear right
from the start. If you have any strength left you can save it for a
sprint over the top - past all those sweaty mountain bikers pushing
their bikes.
Excellent hot meat sandwich shop in Castleton (main road just south of
centre) will help you get up the hill.
Excellent cycling in Derbyshire including High Peak and Tissington
trails - old railway lines. and lots of quiet minor roads.
Have a nice time

cheers

Jacob

Mike Ellwood said:

Not Responding said:

It was all incredibly easy. [...]

Glad that all went well, but not that I want to pour cold tea on your
cornflakes, but I just hope the actual journey is as smooth (no delayed or
cancelled trains, etc).

My son's ~4 year experience with Virgin between Oxford and
Sheffield|Manchester is so seared into his brain, that he is now a 110%
dedicated fan of the car, motorway delays and all.
Thank you Virgin. Not. :-(

I'll admit that I'm only really using the train because I'm not able
to drive at the moment (an injury not a ban which also prompted me to
sell my car). But looking at the route my friend will be taking on
Friday afternoon/evening from a bit further along the coast, I think
I'm a safer bet to be in the pub in Hope, Derbyshire at 2105 than him.

When I typed the road route into theaa.com, it reckoned the trip would
take 4.5 hours in average traffic conditions (compared to my total 5.5
hrs or so by rail). But is Friday afternoon/evening likely to be
"average traffic conditions"?; theaa.com highlighted 5 "traffic
blacksports" on top of the usual random slowing up.

As the connections are not particularly tight (25 mins and 20 mins)
I'm confident that I'll be there at bang on 2100.

But, hey, what do I know? I was only reporting the ease of the booking
system. I've not taken a bike on a train for about 15 years and I've
never used Virgin before so I'm new to all this.

in message <[email hidden]>, Richard

(') said:

"Mike Ellwood" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Glad that all went well, but not that I want to pour cold tea on your
cornflakes, but I just hope the actual journey is as smooth (no
delayed or cancelled trains, etc).

My son's ~4 year experience with Virgin between Oxford and
Sheffield|Manchester is so seared into his brain, that he is now a
110% dedicated fan of the car, motorway delays and all.

Why do people refer to case study (n=1) rather than useful statistics
(n=10000s).

Because I don't make tens of thousands of journeys, and I'm not tens of
thousands of people. I know that *every* time I've been on a Virgin
train (that's right, 100% score, no exceptions) in the last five years
they have [censored] up very badly, with an average delay per journey in
excess of 90 minutes (yes, that's an hour and a half) and an average
standing time per journey (yes, I've always pre-booked a first class
seat) of over an hour. I conclude from this that they are not even
nearly competent to run a railway.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Skill without imagination is craftsmanship and gives us
;; many useful objects such as wickerwork picnic baskets.
;; Imagination without skill gives us modern art.
;; Tom Stoppard, Artist Descending A Staircase

in message <[email hidden]>, Jon Senior

('jon@restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk.remove') said:

In article <[email hidden]>, richard2002
@ntlworld.com says...

Quoted message said:

Why do people refer to case study (n=1) rather than useful statistics
(n=10000s).

Because personal experience tends to have a more direct effect on our
perception. (I know... it was a rhetorical question!)

Quoted message said:

somewhere aroundabout 80% of trains arrive at their destination
within 10 minutes of the scheduled time.

Which translates to 20% of trains fail to arrive within even 10
minutes of the scheduled time. So on a multiple carrier journey with
nominal 15 minute connections, 20% of the time a given user will fail
to complete the journey. By missing their connection they may be
delayed further.

Bad maths. 20% will fail to make connection 1. of the 80% who make
connection 1, 20% will fail to make connection 2. So by the third train
only 64% of the original passengers will still have made their
connections, and by the fourth only just over half.

Say that again: on a journey with three changes, '80% arrive within 10
minutes' means that only 51.2% of the passengers will actually get to
their destination on the scheduled train.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Morning had broken, and there was nothing left for us to do
but pick up the pieces.

Simon Brooke [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Bad maths. 20% will fail to make connection 1. of the 80% who make
connection 1, 20% will fail to make connection 2. So by the third train
only 64% of the original passengers will still have made their
connections, and by the fourth only just over half.

Say that again: on a journey with three changes, '80% arrive within 10
minutes' means that only 51.2% of the passengers will actually get to
their destination on the scheduled train.

OK. So I was overoptimistic! ;-) That is fantastic.

Jon