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Pissing On Armstron's Parade

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Road Cycling
Published
25 July 2004
Last activity
29 July 2004
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B. Lafferty
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  1. From L'Equipe, todat:
    Un ancien médecin parle

    Prentice Steffen, qui était le médecin en chef de la formation américaine US
    Postal avant que celle-ci ne recrute Lance Armstrong, en 1997, a affirmé
    avoir été licencié par l'équipe pour avoir refusé de prescrire des produits
    dopants.

    «Il était hors de question de se livrer à ce genre de pratiques. Mais,
    devant mon refus catégorique, j'ai été tout simplement remercié quelques
    mois plus tard», a-t-il déclaré samedi depuis son domicile de San Francisco.

    «A l'époque, nous étions encore une petite équipe avec des ambitions
    moyennes. Tout le monde était propre, précise-t-il. Mais un jour, Marty
    Jemison (coureur aujourd'hui à la retraite) et Tyler Hamilton (actuellement
    chez Phonak) sont venus me trouver pour me demander si je ne pouvais pas
    leur fournir des produits illicites. J'avais l'impression qu'ils parlaient
    au nom de tous les autres et qu'ils étaient venus tâter le terrain.»

    Steffen assure que «pour passer au niveau supérieur, les dirigeants étaient
    convaincus que seul le dopage permettrait à l'équipe d'enchaîner les bons
    résultats. A partir de là, j'ai compris que toute la mentalité était en
    train de changer».

    Bien qu'il n'ait jamais eu affaire à Lance Armstrong, Steffen, qui officie
    aujourd'hui pour la petite équipe Prime Alliance, estime que le coureur
    américain, en passe de gagner son sixième Tour de France, «est en train de
    battre un record qu'il ne mérite pas».

  2. "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    From L'Equipe, todat:
    Un ancien médecin parle

    Prentice Steffen, qui était le médecin en chef de la formation américaine


    US

    Quoted message said:

    Postal avant que celle-ci ne recrute Lance Armstrong, en 1997, a affirmé
    avoir été licencié par l'équipe pour avoir refusé de prescrire des


    produits

    Quoted message said:

    dopants.

    «Il était hors de question de se livrer à ce genre de pratiques. Mais,
    devant mon refus catégorique, j'ai été tout simplement remercié quelques
    mois plus tard», a-t-il déclaré samedi depuis son domicile de San


    Francisco.

    Quoted message said:


    «A l'époque, nous étions encore une petite équipe avec des ambitions
    moyennes. Tout le monde était propre, précise-t-il. Mais un jour, Marty
    Jemison (coureur aujourd'hui à la retraite) et Tyler Hamilton


    (actuellement

    Quoted message said:

    chez Phonak) sont venus me trouver pour me demander si je ne pouvais pas
    leur fournir des produits illicites. J'avais l'impression qu'ils parlaient
    au nom de tous les autres et qu'ils étaient venus tâter le terrain.»

    Steffen assure que «pour passer au niveau supérieur, les dirigeants


    étaient

    Quoted message said:

    convaincus que seul le dopage permettrait à l'équipe d'enchaîner les bons
    résultats. A partir de là, j'ai compris que toute la mentalité était en
    train de changer».

    Bien qu'il n'ait jamais eu affaire à Lance Armstrong, Steffen, qui officie
    aujourd'hui pour la petite équipe Prime Alliance, estime que le coureur
    américain, en passe de gagner son sixième Tour de France, «est en train de
    battre un record qu'il ne mérite pas».

    Someone posting here wanted Hampsten to name names. Well, here's a guy
    naming anames...Tyler Hamilton and Marty Jemison. It seems the flesh of
    this sport is so rotted that it's starting to fall off the bone.

  3. On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 21:11:54 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    From L'Equipe, todat:
    Un ancien médecin parle

    Prentice Steffen, qui était le médecin en chef de la formation américaine


    US

    Quoted message said:

    Postal avant que celle-ci ne recrute Lance Armstrong, en 1997, a affirmé
    avoir été licencié par l'équipe pour avoir refusé de prescrire des


    produits

    Quoted message said:

    dopants.

    «Il était hors de question de se livrer à ce genre de pratiques. Mais,
    devant mon refus catégorique, j'ai été tout simplement remercié quelques
    mois plus tard», a-t-il déclaré samedi depuis son domicile de San


    Francisco.

    Quoted message said:


    «A l'époque, nous étions encore une petite équipe avec des ambitions
    moyennes. Tout le monde était propre, précise-t-il. Mais un jour, Marty
    Jemison (coureur aujourd'hui à la retraite) et Tyler Hamilton


    (actuellement

    Quoted message said:

    chez Phonak) sont venus me trouver pour me demander si je ne pouvais pas
    leur fournir des produits illicites. J'avais l'impression qu'ils parlaient
    au nom de tous les autres et qu'ils étaient venus tâter le terrain.»

    Steffen assure que «pour passer au niveau supérieur, les dirigeants


    étaient

    Quoted message said:

    convaincus que seul le dopage permettrait à l'équipe d'enchaîner les bons
    résultats. A partir de là, j'ai compris que toute la mentalité était en
    train de changer».

    Bien qu'il n'ait jamais eu affaire à Lance Armstrong, Steffen, qui officie
    aujourd'hui pour la petite équipe Prime Alliance, estime que le coureur
    américain, en passe de gagner son sixième Tour de France, «est en train de
    battre un record qu'il ne mérite pas».

    Someone posting here wanted Hampsten to name names. Well, here's a guy
    naming anames...Tyler Hamilton and Marty Jemison. It seems the flesh of
    this sport is so rotted that it's starting to fall off the bone.

    So... what does it say?

  4. "JOE" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 21:11:54 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    From L'Equipe, todat:
    Un ancien médecin parle

    Prentice Steffen, qui était le médecin en chef de la formation


    américaine

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    US

    Quoted message said:

    Postal avant que celle-ci ne recrute Lance Armstrong, en 1997, a


    affirmé

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    avoir été licencié par l'équipe pour avoir refusé de prescrire des


    produits

    Quoted message said:

    dopants.

    «Il était hors de question de se livrer à ce genre de pratiques. Mais,
    devant mon refus catégorique, j'ai été tout simplement remercié


    quelques

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    mois plus tard», a-t-il déclaré samedi depuis son domicile de San


    Francisco.

    Quoted message said:


    «A l'époque, nous étions encore une petite équipe avec des ambitions
    moyennes. Tout le monde était propre, précise-t-il. Mais un jour, Marty
    Jemison (coureur aujourd'hui à la retraite) et Tyler Hamilton


    (actuellement

    Quoted message said:

    chez Phonak) sont venus me trouver pour me demander si je ne pouvais


    pas

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    leur fournir des produits illicites. J'avais l'impression qu'ils


    parlaient

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    au nom de tous les autres et qu'ils étaient venus tâter le terrain.»

    Steffen assure que «pour passer au niveau supérieur, les dirigeants


    étaient

    Quoted message said:

    convaincus que seul le dopage permettrait à l'équipe d'enchaîner les


    bons

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    résultats. A partir de là, j'ai compris que toute la mentalité était en
    train de changer».

    Bien qu'il n'ait jamais eu affaire à Lance Armstrong, Steffen, qui


    officie

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    aujourd'hui pour la petite équipe Prime Alliance, estime que le coureur
    américain, en passe de gagner son sixième Tour de France, «est en train


    de

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    battre un record qu'il ne mérite pas».

    Someone posting here wanted Hampsten to name names. Well, here's a guy
    naming anames...Tyler Hamilton and Marty Jemison. It seems the flesh of
    this sport is so rotted that it's starting to fall off the bone.

    So... what does it say?

    It says that Tyler Hamilton and Marty Jemison approached Dr. Steffen when he
    was team physician for Postal and asked him to provide a specific brand of
    mineral water. Dr. Steffen didn't like the mineral water that they wanted,
    so he was replaced by a doctor who would obtain the proper brand of water.

  5. On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 22:18:00 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    "JOE" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 21:11:54 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > From L'Equipe, todat:
    > Un ancien médecin parle
    >
    > Prentice Steffen, qui était le médecin en chef de la formation


    américaine

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    US
    > Postal avant que celle-ci ne recrute Lance Armstrong, en 1997, a


    affirmé

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > avoir été licencié par l'équipe pour avoir refusé de prescrire des
    produits
    > dopants.
    >
    > «Il était hors de question de se livrer à ce genre de pratiques. Mais,
    > devant mon refus catégorique, j'ai été tout simplement remercié


    quelques

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > mois plus tard», a-t-il déclaré samedi depuis son domicile de San
    Francisco.
    >
    > «A l'époque, nous étions encore une petite équipe avec des ambitions
    > moyennes. Tout le monde était propre, précise-t-il. Mais un jour, Marty
    > Jemison (coureur aujourd'hui à la retraite) et Tyler Hamilton
    (actuellement
    > chez Phonak) sont venus me trouver pour me demander si je ne pouvais


    pas

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > leur fournir des produits illicites. J'avais l'impression qu'ils


    parlaient

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > au nom de tous les autres et qu'ils étaient venus tâter le terrain.»
    >
    > Steffen assure que «pour passer au niveau supérieur, les dirigeants
    étaient
    > convaincus que seul le dopage permettrait à l'équipe d'enchaîner les


    bons

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > résultats. A partir de là, j'ai compris que toute la mentalité était en
    > train de changer».
    >
    > Bien qu'il n'ait jamais eu affaire à Lance Armstrong, Steffen, qui


    officie

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > aujourd'hui pour la petite équipe Prime Alliance, estime que le coureur
    > américain, en passe de gagner son sixième Tour de France, «est en train


    de

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > battre un record qu'il ne mérite pas».

    Someone posting here wanted Hampsten to name names. Well, here's a guy
    naming anames...Tyler Hamilton and Marty Jemison. It seems the flesh of
    this sport is so rotted that it's starting to fall off the bone.

    So... what does it say?

    It says that Tyler Hamilton and Marty Jemison approached Dr. Steffen when he
    was team physician for Postal and asked him to provide a specific brand of
    mineral water. Dr. Steffen didn't like the mineral water that they wanted,
    so he was replaced by a doctor who would obtain the proper brand of water.

    How is that pissing on Lance's Parade?

    If the TDF and the cycling sport as a whole is rotten with doping and
    since Lance is clean, that would only raise Lance's accomplishments to
    a higher level. What am I missing here?

  6. B. Lafferty said:

    It says that Tyler Hamilton and Marty Jemison approached Dr. Steffen when he
    was team physician for Postal and asked him to provide a specific brand of
    mineral water. Dr. Steffen didn't like the mineral water that they wanted,
    so he was replaced by a doctor who would obtain the proper brand of water.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    «A l'époque, nous étions encore une petite équipe avec des ambitions
    moyennes. Tout le monde était propre, précise-t-il. Mais un jour, Marty
    Jemison (coureur aujourd'hui à la retraite) et Tyler Hamilton


    (actuellement

    Quoted message said:

    chez Phonak) sont venus me trouver pour me demander si je ne pouvais


    pas

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    leur fournir des produits illicites. J'avais l'impression qu'ils


    parlaient

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    au nom de tous les autres et qu'ils étaient venus tâter le terrain.»

    At the time we were still a small squad with modest ambitions. The
    World was fine, said he (Dr. Steefen).

    But one day Marty Jemison (currently retired) and Tyler Hamilton
    (Phonak) came looking for me asking if I could supply them with Illegal
    Products. I had the impression that they came in the name of the whole
    squad and were ``testing the waters.''

  7. "HAPPYDANCE" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 22:18:00 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    "JOE" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 21:11:54 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>
    wrote:

    >
    >"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >news:[email hidden]...
    >> From L'Equipe, todat:
    >> Un ancien médecin parle
    >>
    >> Prentice Steffen, qui était le médecin en chef de la formation


    américaine

    Quoted message said:

    >US
    >> Postal avant que celle-ci ne recrute Lance Armstrong, en 1997, a


    affirmé

    Quoted message said:

    >> avoir été licencié par l'équipe pour avoir refusé de prescrire des
    >produits
    >> dopants.
    >>
    >> «Il était hors de question de se livrer à ce genre de pratiques.


    Mais,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> devant mon refus catégorique, j'ai été tout simplement remercié


    quelques

    Quoted message said:

    >> mois plus tard», a-t-il déclaré samedi depuis son domicile de San
    >Francisco.
    >>
    >> «A l'époque, nous étions encore une petite équipe avec des ambitions
    >> moyennes. Tout le monde était propre, précise-t-il. Mais un jour,


    Marty

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> Jemison (coureur aujourd'hui à la retraite) et Tyler Hamilton
    >(actuellement
    >> chez Phonak) sont venus me trouver pour me demander si je ne pouvais


    pas

    Quoted message said:

    >> leur fournir des produits illicites. J'avais l'impression qu'ils


    parlaient

    Quoted message said:

    >> au nom de tous les autres et qu'ils étaient venus tâter le terrain.»
    >>
    >> Steffen assure que «pour passer au niveau supérieur, les dirigeants
    >étaient
    >> convaincus que seul le dopage permettrait à l'équipe d'enchaîner les


    bons

    Quoted message said:

    >> résultats. A partir de là, j'ai compris que toute la mentalité était


    en

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> train de changer».
    >>
    >> Bien qu'il n'ait jamais eu affaire à Lance Armstrong, Steffen, qui


    officie

    Quoted message said:

    >> aujourd'hui pour la petite équipe Prime Alliance, estime que le


    coureur

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> américain, en passe de gagner son sixième Tour de France, «est en


    train

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    de

    Quoted message said:

    >> battre un record qu'il ne mérite pas».
    >
    >
    >Someone posting here wanted Hampsten to name names. Well, here's a


    guy

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >naming anames...Tyler Hamilton and Marty Jemison. It seems the flesh


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >this sport is so rotted that it's starting to fall off the bone.
    >

    So... what does it say?

    It says that Tyler Hamilton and Marty Jemison approached Dr. Steffen when


    he

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    was team physician for Postal and asked him to provide a specific brand


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    mineral water. Dr. Steffen didn't like the mineral water that they


    wanted,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    so he was replaced by a doctor who would obtain the proper brand of


    water.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    How is that pissing on Lance's Parade?

    If the TDF and the cycling sport as a whole is rotten with doping and
    since Lance is clean, that would only raise Lance's accomplishments to
    a higher level. What am I missing here?

    Happy, it's like this. Dr. Steffen stated when interviewed by ESPN that
    Armstrong called him and threatened him with legal action if he spoke about
    these matters regarding the Postal team. Why threats if there's nothing to
    hide? That call occurred after Dr. Steffen left the team and after
    Armstrong arrived at Postal. The story casts doubt on Armstrong's
    assertions that Postal has not and does not tolerate drug use.

    And now, if it is true that Hamilton asked for illicit products, this casts
    doubts about doping on not only Hamilton but raises questions about Hamilton
    and Armstrong's preparation together at Postal.

    So now all the jokes about what Mr. 60% did or did not do for Hamilton
    suddenly take on new meaning.

    Also, if you go to the L'Equipe site, you'll see that the Steffen article is
    right nest to Armstong's photo winning #6. The only thing missing is an
    illustrative urine stream going right to left.

  8. Quoted message said:

    From: "B. Lafferty" [email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    Happy, it's like this. Dr. Steffen stated when interviewed by ESPN that
    Armstrong called him and threatened him with legal action if he spoke about
    these matters regarding the Postal team. Why threats if there's nothing to
    hide?

    Brian I know you're a lawyer and like Mike Moore so lying is a positive skill.
    The rest of us just don't see it that way unless of course, in my case it's
    creative lies about hunting and fishing. (See Patrick F McManus)
    Maybe Lance is tired of midgets trying to bring him down, and making money off
    of lies about him.
    I don't know about Lance I'm just suggesting a rational altrernative.
    Bill C

  9. On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 22:56:51 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    The only thing missing is an
    illustrative urine stream going right to left.

    There is an illustrated Armstrong urine stream throughout the TDF and
    it is clean. How many times was he tested?

  10. "TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    From: "B. Lafferty" [email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    Happy, it's like this. Dr. Steffen stated when interviewed by ESPN that
    Armstrong called him and threatened him with legal action if he spoke


    about

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    these matters regarding the Postal team. Why threats if there's nothing


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    hide?

    Brian I know you're a lawyer and like Mike Moore so lying is a positive


    skill.

    Quoted message said:

    The rest of us just don't see it that way unless of course, in my case


    it's

    Quoted message said:

    creative lies about hunting and fishing. (See Patrick F McManus)
    Maybe Lance is tired of midgets trying to bring him down, and making


    money off

    Quoted message said:

    of lies about him.
    I don't know about Lance I'm just suggesting a rational altrernative.
    Bill C

    Lying as a positive skill............I've got to run that through my Geodel
    enraptured brain and get back to you.

    What I see are lots of questions and loose ends that are looking more and
    more indicative of people with knowledge finally speaking. That's a good
    thing. Lets get it all out in the open no matter who winds up taking a
    fall. Only that way will the sport stand a chance of being cleansed of the
    cancer.

    As to fishing, we were camping this past week and did some fishing. The
    fish were huge, but we didn't have hooks strong enough to hold them.
    Amazing what's in the water in the Adirondacks.

  11. "HAPPYDANCE" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 22:56:51 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    The only thing missing is an
    illustrative urine stream going right to left.

    There is an illustrated Armstrong urine stream throughout the TDF and
    it is clean. How many times was he tested?

    Probably as much as David Millar was.

  12. "HAPPYDANCE" wrote...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 22:18:00 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    "JOE" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 21:11:54 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>
    wrote:


    It says that Tyler Hamilton and Marty Jemison approached Dr. Steffen when


    he

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    was team physician for Postal and asked him to provide a specific brand


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    mineral water. Dr. Steffen didn't like the mineral water that they


    wanted,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    so he was replaced by a doctor who would obtain the proper brand of


    water.

    Quoted message said:


    How is that pissing on Lance's Parade?

    If the TDF and the cycling sport as a whole is rotten with doping and
    since Lance is clean, that would only raise Lance's accomplishments to
    a higher level. What am I missing here?

    Lafferty was using the term mineral water euphemistically.

  13. "Jim Flom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:%aXMc.89972$Rf.20857@edtnps84...

    Quoted message said:

    "HAPPYDANCE" wrote...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 22:18:00 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    "JOE" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 21:11:54 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>
    > wrote:
    >
    It says that Tyler Hamilton and Marty Jemison approached Dr. Steffen


    when

    Quoted message said:

    he

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    was team physician for Postal and asked him to provide a specific brand


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    mineral water. Dr. Steffen didn't like the mineral water that they


    wanted,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    so he was replaced by a doctor who would obtain the proper brand of


    water.

    Quoted message said:


    How is that pissing on Lance's Parade?

    If the TDF and the cycling sport as a whole is rotten with doping and
    since Lance is clean, that would only raise Lance's accomplishments to
    a higher level. What am I missing here?

    Lafferty was using the term mineral water euphemistically.

    Isn't it great that Gerolsteiner was in the Tour? I bought some of their
    bottled water here last week but I didn't care for the taste. Now if
    Perrier would sponsor a team...........

  14. "JOE" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 21:11:54 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    From L'Equipe, todat:
    Un ancien médecin parle


    So... what does it say?

    My French is rusty but ...

    This is the same doctor who was previously reported to have claimed he was
    fired by U.S. Postal for refusing to prescribe drugs. He claims Hamilton
    and Jemison were the ones that approached him to ask for drugs so they could
    be more competitive and that, although they didn't say so, he claims they
    were probably representing others on the team. (There is no suggestion that
    the team management supported this approach. He doesn't say anything about
    informing the managment that this had happened)

    He says he refused to get the dope. A few months later, he was asked to
    leave the team, He does not claim that his purported refusal to dope the
    riders was the stated reason for his separation, but it's clear he assumes
    it was. (It's worth noting that he was let go months later, not
    immediately. He does not claim to have any evidence that in the interim the
    riders found another way to get dope and started using it.)

    Although he doesn't know it for a fact or even by hearsay, he assumes that
    the team became dirty after he left.because of this claimed approach by the
    two riders.

    He also says this was before LA was on the team, that he never dealt with
    LA, but that he charges that LA "didn't earn his six TDF wins, " the
    implication being that he must be dirty because he is on what became (he
    thinks) a dirty team after he left.

    Geez -- this is even flimsier than I thought.

    Z

  15. "zeno" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "JOE" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 21:11:54 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > From L'Equipe, todat:
    > Un ancien médecin parle


    So... what does it say?

    My French is rusty but ...

    This is the same doctor who was previously reported to have claimed he was
    fired by U.S. Postal for refusing to prescribe drugs. He claims Hamilton
    and Jemison were the ones that approached him to ask for drugs so they


    could

    Quoted message said:

    be more competitive and that, although they didn't say so, he claims they
    were probably representing others on the team. (There is no suggestion


    that

    Quoted message said:

    the team management supported this approach. He doesn't say anything


    about

    Quoted message said:

    informing the managment that this had happened)

    However, he did state in the ESPN interview that he received a certified
    letter from Tailwind threatening him with legal action if he said anything
    that would impact negatively on Postal sponsorship. I find it interesting
    that he is speaking only after USPS has decided to get out of cycling.

    Quoted message said:


    He says he refused to get the dope. A few months later, he was asked to
    leave the team, He does not claim that his purported refusal to dope the
    riders was the stated reason for his separation, but it's clear he assumes
    it was. (It's worth noting that he was let go months later, not
    immediately. He does not claim to have any evidence that in the interim


    the

    Quoted message said:

    riders found another way to get dope and started using it.)

    Although he doesn't know it for a fact or even by hearsay, he assumes


    that

    Quoted message said:

    the team became dirty after he left.because of this claimed approach by


    the

    Quoted message said:

    two riders.

    No doubt, because he refused to provide dope to these riders, they
    completely reconsidered their request, realized it was improper and
    potentially healt damaging and reversed course 180 defrees. And then
    Armstrong came to town and any vestige of the thought of doping was tossed
    in the dumpster.

    Quoted message said:


    He also says this was before LA was on the team, that he never dealt with
    LA, but that he charges that LA "didn't earn his six TDF wins, " the
    implication being that he must be dirty because he is on what became (he
    thinks) a dirty team after he left.

    Geez -- this is even flimsier than I thought.

    Ya have ta start connecting all the dots.

    Quoted message said:


    Z

  16. "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "zeno" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >> From L'Equipe...


    (snip)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    My French is rusty but ...


    (snip)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    He doesn't say anything about
    informing the managment that this had happened

    However, he did state in the ESPN interview that he received a certified
    letter from Tailwind threatening him with legal action if he said anything
    that would impact negatively on Postal sponsorship. I find it interesting
    that he is speaking only after USPS has decided to get out of cycling.


    He he, they could still sue him, if they thought he was worth the trouble.
    (Tyler could sue him too) But his story is so lame and totally unsupported.
    (It's also not new.) He doesn't even claim that to his knowledge, despite
    his connections to the team, that any doping actually occurered Why bother
    with him?

    One thing that is undisputed is that the Doc was fired. It's common practice
    for a high profile company to threaten legal action against a disgruntled
    former employee if they get even a hint that the fired employee is bad
    mouthing them. It's in no way an admission of guilt to threaten such
    action. We have never heard the Posties side of why he was fired (and no
    HRD manager in their right mind would ever discuss that publicly.) We are
    only getting the fired guy's side of it.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    (snip)
    Although he doesn't know it for a fact or even by hearsay, he assumes


    that

    Quoted message said:

    the team became dirty after he left.because of this claimed approach by
    the two riders.

    No doubt, because he refused to provide dope to these riders, they
    completely reconsidered their request, realized it was improper and
    potentially healt damaging and reversed course 180 defrees. And then
    Armstrong came to town and any vestige of the thought of doping was tossed
    in the dumpster.


    No reason to believe that what you describe wasn't the case.The Doc presents
    no evidence to the contrary He was fired months after the alleged
    event.There is no evidence presented that his replacement was pro doping. At
    the time, EPO was easier to get than popcorn if a rider really wanted it,
    yet the Doc makes no claim they were using in the months before he left.
    Again. if he was such a righteous dude, why didn't he inform team management
    that he had been approached by two riders asking for dope on what he says
    had previously been a clean team? That sounds very fishy to me..

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    (snip)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Geez -- this is even flimsier than I thought.

    Ya have ta start connecting all the dots.


    Yeah, it's called "paranoia."

    Z

  17. Quoted message said:

    From: "B. Lafferty"

    Quoted message said:

    Ya have ta start connecting all the dots.

    Including the ones on the Grassy Knoll?

    Three dots: positive test for banned substance(s), A&B samples; possession of
    banned substances; uncoerced confession. Not hesaidshesaid from fired
    employees, delivered over three years late. And this great "revelation", the
    doctor naming names, left before Armstrong arrived, so his "testimony" is even
    more dated than O'Reilly's; further, he didn't implicate Armstrong. Nor did he
    provide drugs or "know" of use of illicit performance enhancing drug use by the
    two Postals he did name. Wow. Not much in the way of "dots" there.

    But at least under the new "rules", anyone who talks about drugs can get thrown
    out of competition. There's some progress. Wiretaps for everyone, volunteers to
    man the listening consoles, the War on Racing has commenced! --TP

  18. Quoted message said:

    But one day Marty Jemison (currently retired) and Tyler Hamilton
    (Phonak) came looking for me asking if I could supply them with Illegal
    Products. I had the impression that they came in the name of the whole
    squad and were ``testing the waters.''

    All this talk of mineral water, orange juice and pissing is starting to
    make my head spin. Could it be that the entire crisis confronting
    professional cycling is no more than a simple misunderstanding in a cafe
    order or a mistranslation of team menus?

    Or does it cast more light on what the La Vie Claire was all about back
    in the 80s...?

  19. Gosh, this is getting so tiresome. The tour finished today already the
    posting here has stopped being about riding and strategy and recapping
    the action. No emerging rider discussion. No predictions for the future.
    No "wait until the Vuelta!" stuff. Gosh, maybe you all could start a
    group "rec.bicycles.doping." Geesh!

    B. Lafferty said:

    "zeno" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "JOE" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 21:11:54 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>
    wrote:

    >"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >news:[email hidden]...
    >
    >
    >>From L'Equipe, todat:
    >>Un ancien médecin parle
    >>
    >>
    So... what does it say?


    My French is rusty but ...

    This is the same doctor who was previously reported to have claimed he was
    fired by U.S. Postal for refusing to prescribe drugs. He claims Hamilton
    and Jemison were the ones that approached him to ask for drugs so they


    could

    Quoted message said:

    be more competitive and that, although they didn't say so, he claims they
    were probably representing others on the team. (There is no suggestion


    that

    Quoted message said:

    the team management supported this approach. He doesn't say anything


    about

    Quoted message said:

    informing the managment that this had happened)

    However, he did state in the ESPN interview that he received a certified
    letter from Tailwind threatening him with legal action if he said anything
    that would impact negatively on Postal sponsorship. I find it interesting
    that he is speaking only after USPS has decided to get out of cycling.

    Quoted message said:

    He says he refused to get the dope. A few months later, he was asked to
    leave the team, He does not claim that his purported refusal to dope the
    riders was the stated reason for his separation, but it's clear he assumes
    it was. (It's worth noting that he was let go months later, not
    immediately. He does not claim to have any evidence that in the interim


    the

    Quoted message said:

    riders found another way to get dope and started using it.)

    Although he doesn't know it for a fact or even by hearsay, he assumes


    that

    Quoted message said:

    the team became dirty after he left.because of this claimed approach by


    the

    Quoted message said:

    two riders.

    No doubt, because he refused to provide dope to these riders, they
    completely reconsidered their request, realized it was improper and
    potentially healt damaging and reversed course 180 defrees. And then
    Armstrong came to town and any vestige of the thought of doping was tossed
    in the dumpster.

    Quoted message said:

    He also says this was before LA was on the team, that he never dealt with
    LA, but that he charges that LA "didn't earn his six TDF wins, " the
    implication being that he must be dirty because he is on what became (he
    thinks) a dirty team after he left.

    Geez -- this is even flimsier than I thought.

    Ya have ta start connecting all the dots.

    Quoted message said:

    Z

  20. Quoted message said:

    From: Gary [email hidden]
    Date: 7/25/2004 8:42 PM Eastern

    Quoted message said:

    The tour finished today already the
    posting here has stopped being about riding and strategy and recapping
    the action. No emerging rider discussion. No predictions for the future.
    No "wait until the Vuelta!" stuff. Gosh, maybe you all could start a
    group "rec.bicycles.doping." Geesh!

    B. Lafferty wrote:


    This is Brian's year round topic.
    the rest of us do occasionally talk about other things.
    Bill C

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