NCW riding speeds

From Calvine to Dalwhinnie the path is reasonably good. There is a
section on a part of the old A9 near Drumochter, which is a bit rough.
Apart from that the surface is tarred with a loose surface. This surface
was laid to counteract the effects of the Highland weather on the path.

Read the warning notices at Dalwhinnie and Calvive, there is nothing for
17 miles and very little shelter should the weather turn nasty.

I would not want to be going fast on them, if that is your want in life
take your chances on the A9.

The NCN 7 is a very good alternative to cycling on the A9, the memorial
to Mick Greatbatch testifies to that fact. Mick was killed on the A9,
while cycling LEJoG.

Aviemore to Pitlochry is a good idea, from Dalwhinnie it is more or less
one big down hill run.

Nothing is perfect.......

John Burns said:

Quoted message said:

No, that's very common. I find the paths terribly disappointing and no
use at all for "sustainable transport".

They could be a lot better. Some are a bit scary if you get over 20 on
them.

I'm thinking of a cycle from Aviemore to Pitlochry. What's the path
through Drumochter like? I'd heard it wasn't tarmac and only suitable
for mountain bikes.

--
Wallace Shackleton,

Kinross,
Scotland.

Cycling in Kinross-shire www.cyclekinross.org.uk

"Terry D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think the real problem here is one of available space.

Britain isn't that big and only a very small percentage of what we have
is scenic countryside.

Bollox. There is scenic countryside ithin a few miles of everywhere. Maybe
there is only a very limited supply of 'very senic' stuff but as another
thread points out, cycling can get you up close to the wildife so you don't
have to be in some honey pot with millions of car bound grockles to enjoy
it.

T

Quoted message said:

I've not ridden that section, but it doesn't look too bad from the A9.

I have ridden the section north out of Aviemore to Boat of Garten (shared
with the Speyside Way), that definately is mountain bike country.

I found that out the hard way. The first bit from Boat is fine, by the
time it turns to gravel you're 1/3rd of the way to Aviemore!

--
Who needs a life when you've got Unix? :-)
Email: [email hidden], John G.Burns B.Eng, Bonny Scotland
Web : http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk - The Ultimate BMW Homepage!
Need Sun or HP Unix kit? http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/unix.html

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, vernon levy

(') said:

Quoted message said:

That's not an excuse. Agreed whoever routed a National Cycle Route
and a long distance footpath over the same piece of track should be
shot, but fifteen - or even thirty - miles per hour should not be
seen as unreasonable speeds for cycles on a designated cycle route.

No, it's prudent for planners to promote shared use. In many
instances planning consent and access rights would not be granted for
single
categories of users. Excluding walkers from the outset and many of
the existing off road routes quite simply would not exist.

If you can't use them at anything more than walking speed, they might
just as well not exist.

Well, this assumes that the path is chock full of pedestrians
slowing you down. This is rarely ever the case, though.

Besides, not *everyone* wants to belt along at road speeds on
segregated cycle path. I for one am quite happy to pootle along
at lower than normal speeds. If I'm in a hurry, I'll use the road.

--
Akin

aknak at aksoto dot idps dot co dot uk

Simon Brooke said:

Quoted message said:

A cycle route is designed to accomodate non motorised transport users
from the outset. Legislation excludes non motorised transport users
from motorways from the outset.

Quoted message said:

Then shouldn't the planners be honest and stop calling them cycle
routes, since clearly cyclists are not welcome to use them?

The problem in my view is that the planners have a different mental picture
of a cyclist from the one you and I might have.

Sustrans paths are pretty good for pootling around with the kids, although
the fact that they often pass miles away from anywhere with refreshments is
a bit of a bind. And the recent trend for covering the blacktop with gravel
to slow cyclists down is a bugger for the youngest children. Either way,
the offroad routes are largely conceived as leisure paths. Even the signed
light-traffic routes are often so tortuous that they are not worth using;
the amount of traffic on some of the roads they avoid is low enough that any
but the most nervous will have little problem. But when riding with small
children, the lack of traffic makes life less stressful. So when you see
lots of pictures on Sustrans leaflets of happy families with small children,
it seems to me that that's a fair reflection of the target audience. And
that target audience is not me, for the most part.

Sustrans routes are almost always useless for transportational cycling,
because transportational cycling is generally purposeful. We don't much
care whether the route has nice statues and seats to sit on, but we do want
to be able to maintain a steady speed and not have to stop too often. My
experience indicates that the road network, which of course is designed to
carry purposeful traffic reasonably directly between adjacent towns, works
better.

I don't necessarily think this is a problem, mind. The real problem is that
everything from pootling round the park on a tricycle to extreme downhill is
lumped together as "cycling", and all the various interests substitute
"cycling" for "the kind of cycling which I imagine to be typical" in every
instance. Which is a trap I certainly fall into all the time, and the
Liddites undoubtedly do as well.

Cycling is no more homogeneous than driving or walking - probably less so,
if anything.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

Tony W said:

Bollox. There is scenic countryside ithin a few miles of everywhere.

For varying values of "scenic", obv. :-)

[thinking - reluctantly - of Scunthorpe, here]

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

you know? said:

Tony W said:

Bollox. There is scenic countryside ithin a few miles of everywhere.

For varying values of "scenic", obv. :-)

[thinking - reluctantly - of Sc**thorpe, here]

How dare you use the C word. This is a family newsgroup!

Colin

Colin Blackburn said:

Quoted message said:

[thinking - reluctantly - of Sc**thorpe, here]

How dare you use the C word. This is a family newsgroup!

Ah, that reminds me of QI. Tmesis: the splitting of a compound word and
insertion of another word. Examples given including abso-bloody-lutely and,
from Jo Brand, Scunthorpe. Brilliant. And Howard Goodall got two credits
in one episode :-)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tony W said:

Bollox. There is scenic countryside ithin a few miles of everywhere.

For varying values of "scenic", obv. :-)

[thinking - reluctantly - of Scunthorpe, here]

Don't know Scunthorpe. But I am sure there is some not unpleasant
countryside within 10 miles of the centre.

T

Tony W said:

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tony W said:

Bollox. There is scenic countryside ithin a few miles of everywhere.

For varying values of "scenic", obv. :-)

[thinking - reluctantly - of Scunthorpe, here]

Don't know Scunthorpe. But I am sure there is some not unpleasant
countryside within 10 miles of the centre.

I think that OS grid square with almost nothing in it is near Scunthorpe.

Colin

Tony W said:

Don't know Scunthorpe. But I am sure there is some not unpleasant
countryside within 10 miles of the centre.

Hmmm. I wouldn't bet on it. Steelworks, [censored] tips, salt marsh...

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

you know? said:

Colin Blackburn said:

Quoted message said:

[thinking - reluctantly - of Sc**thorpe, here]

How dare you use the C word. This is a family newsgroup!

Ah, that reminds me of QI. Tmesis: the splitting of a compound word and
insertion of another word. Examples given including abso-bloody-lutely and,
from Jo Brand, Scunthorpe. Brilliant.

Very clever. Had to explain it to the better half though. Not so sure
about their definition of light being "invisible". You can see a light
source just as well as something light has bounced off.

Quoted message said:

And Howard Goodall got two credits in one episode :-)

A man who shall live forever in my mind as the fellow who came up with
the Red Dwarf and Blackadder theme tunes, and the absurdly titled
"Howard Goodall's Organ Works". Excellent news for Mrs Goodall.

Frink

--
Doctor J. Frink : 'Rampant Ribald Ringtail'
See his mind here : http://www.cmp.liv.ac.uk/frink/
Annoy his mind here : pjf at cmp dot liv dot ack dot ook
"No sir, I didn't like it!" - Mr Horse

Doctor J. Frink said:

Quoted message said:

And Howard Goodall got two credits in one episode :-)

Quoted message said:

A man who shall live forever in my mind as the fellow who came up with
the Red Dwarf and Blackadder theme tunes, and the absurdly titled
"Howard Goodall's Organ Works". Excellent news for Mrs Goodall.

Featuring two old friends of mine, Stephen Darlington and Peter Hurford.
Plus an Allen digital organ loaned by the son of another old friend :-)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

My leisure riding tends to take place on 20mm or 23mm tyres and an
unforgiving frame geometry that is wholly incompatible with large pieces
of stone loosely strewn across a surface.

The (Often very good) Fife Millenium Cycleway has some completely random
sections where the surface changes from compacted earth / tarmac to a 3
metre section of rock where the smallest pebble is about 5cm cubed and
is sharp on all sides. There is a neat track through the grass each side
of this "moat" where the cyclists prefer to travel. Leisure? Only if you
ride knobbly tyres and suspension.

Jon

Colin Blackburn said:

I think that OS grid square with almost nothing in it is near
Scunthorpe.

A long time ago (circa 1979) the Forestry Commission decided to find
out how much of England was woodland. They got the green overlay of
all of the 1:50 000 O.S. maps, and contracted the company I then
worked for - Laser-Scan of Cambridge, to use their advanced "Fastrack"
interactive laser digitising system to gather the grid co-ordinates of
the peripheries of all of the woods in the country. The 1:50 000 maps
were divided into their four quarters before being scanned, and I can
clearly remember after more than 20 years that one map was marked up
with the quote "There are no trees in Cleethorpes".

--
Alan J. Wylie http://www.wylie.me.uk/
"Perfection [in design] is achieved not when there is nothing left to add,
but rather when there is nothing left to take away."
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Jon Senior jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk said:

My leisure riding tends to take place on 20mm or 23mm tyres and an
unforgiving frame geometry that is wholly incompatible with large pieces
of stone loosely strewn across a surface.

The (Often very good) Fife Millenium Cycleway has some completely random
sections where the surface changes from compacted earth / tarmac to a 3
metre section of rock where the smallest pebble is about 5cm cubed and
is sharp on all sides. There is a neat track through the grass each side
of this "moat" where the cyclists prefer to travel. Leisure? Only if you
ride knobbly tyres and suspension.

Only if you ride big tyres, surely.

But still, it's not the way it should be designed.

A

I am doing a wee bit of voluntary work for Sustrans.....

I forwarded your message to Sustrans Scotland.

Basically the problem with the rough surface lies with the land owner,
Sustrans have been trying to upgrade it for ages and the land owner has
not been too accommodating.

There is a cycling code of conduct on the Sustrans web site, it can be
found at http://www.sustrans.org.uk/downloads/989A18_ff15b.pdf
It outlines what should be a common sense approach to using the Network
- we all have to share the same facility.

--
Wallace Shackleton,

Kinross,
Scotland.

Cycling in Kinross-shire www.cyclekinross.org.uk

Ambrose Nankivell [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Only if you ride big tyres, surely.

Big knobbly tyres? Really big knobbly tyres? Like the ones on a tractor.
Not impressed since my "normal" bikes both run 23mm.

Quoted message said:

But still, it's not the way it should be designed.

I think the keyword in that sentence was designed. Taken in context with
the random gates at the ends of the tracks (How do you get a recumbent
through? Simple, lift it onto it's rear wheel and walk it through!) and
the signposting, I'd be inclined to suspect "thrown together" over
"designed".

Jon

Wild Wind said:

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If you can't use them at anything more than walking speed, they might
just as well not exist.

Well, this assumes that the path is chock full of pedestrians
slowing you down. This is rarely ever the case, though.

Besides, not *everyone* wants to belt along at road speeds on
segregated cycle path. I for one am quite happy to pootle along
at lower than normal speeds. If I'm in a hurry, I'll use the road.

This thread is very pertinent to some plans that came through my door
this morning about the cycle route bypassing the proposed Hindhead
tunnel (A3).

At present the road is a legal, if unpleasant, cycle route, with a
long steady climb averaging about 3% gradient - or, the other way, and
a long steady descent on which it would be easy to sustain 30mph.

The proposal is to close the road and build a cycleway, mostly shared
with pedestrians and horses, along a longer, steeper route, much of it
averaging about 5% gradient. This will be legally a bridleway.

They have changed the plan, to segregate cyclists at the steepest part
of the climb and reduce its gradient to 7%, and are hoping this will
persuade me to withdraw my objection to full closure of the old road.

I'm not convinced. The extra height is only 10m, and the extra
distance perhaps 100m, which would be a mild irritant on the uphill
and no problem going down.

But the whole surface will be new, and include filling in of the
cutting, and I see no evidence that it will be wide enough, smooth
enough, or straight enough for cyclists to take full advantage of the
slope. I think this is important, if the route is to be attractive for
transport, but the planners are clearly only thinking of leisure
cycling - just like on Sustrans routes.

I think I could accept the route with 4m of tarmac and good sightlines
at the corners - otherwise my objection will stand. Is that so
unreasonable?

In this case there won't be a parallel road alternative, so I think
the new route needs to allow road speeds. The nearest road route looks
at least 3 times as long.

Colin McKenzie
--
The great advantage of not trusting statistics is that
it leaves you free to believe the damned lies instead!

in message <[email hidden]>, Colin

McKenzie (') said:

I think I could accept the route with 4m of tarmac and good sightlines
at the corners - otherwise my objection will stand. Is that so
unreasonable?

In this case there won't be a parallel road alternative, so I think
the new route needs to allow road speeds. The nearest road route looks
at least 3 times as long.

I think you're entirely reasonable and entirely right. Mixing
potentially fast moving cyclists with horses and pedestrians is a
recipe for conflict and injuries.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; This email may contain confidential or otherwise privileged
;; information, though, quite frankly, if you're not the intended
;; recipient and you've got nothing better to do than read other
;; folks' emails then I'm glad to have brightened up your sad little
;; life a tiny bit.