Merckx, Hoste Move to Discovery

Axel Merckx?? Do they really need another rider of that type? They've
already got Hincapie to fail to win the Belgian classics, but show enough
class to keep the underdog-watchers hoping with palms clutched to their
hearts...

-Sonarrat.

"Sonarrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Axel Merckx?? Do they really need another rider of that type? They've
already got Hincapie to fail to win the Belgian classics, but show enough
class to keep the underdog-watchers hoping with palms clutched to their
hearts...

Come on Jeff, you're better than that.

Axel and George are both coming into their best Spring Classic years right
now. Axel has consistantly tested stronger, faster and more enduring than
his father. He just doesn't have Eddy's killer instinct. Maybe he'll get it
and maybe he won't.

But I'll tell you one thing for certain - if Eddy was racing today he sure
as hell wouldn't be winning like he did in his day. He would have to
specialize or end up like Laurent Jalabert, always being ALMOST a great
rider.

in article [email hidden], Tom Kunich
at [email hidden] wrote on 8/4/04 8:24 PM:

Quoted message said:

"Sonarrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Axel Merckx?? Do they really need another rider of that type? They've
already got Hincapie to fail to win the Belgian classics, but show enough
class to keep the underdog-watchers hoping with palms clutched to their
hearts...

Come on Jeff, you're better than that.

Axel and George are both coming into their best Spring Classic years right
now. Axel has consistantly tested stronger, faster and more enduring than
his father. He just doesn't have Eddy's killer instinct. Maybe he'll get it
and maybe he won't.

But I'll tell you one thing for certain - if Eddy was racing today he sure
as hell wouldn't be winning like he did in his day. He would have to
specialize or end up like Laurent Jalabert, always being ALMOST a great
rider.

I don't see any of this taking away from what I said.

You may see it as a good thing or as a bad thing, but Hincapie and Merckx
alike have always been highly touted, but have not visibly improved with
age. They make the same tactical errors, too - I may be just an armchair
coach, but it's not that hard to figure out that the rider who forces the
selection will be the rider who's out of gas at the finish 99% of the time.

-Sonarrat.

Sonarrat said:

but it's not that hard to figure out that the rider who forces the
selection will be the rider who's out of gas at the finish 99% of the time.

Like Betini?

Sonarrat <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

in article [email hidden], Tom Kunich
at [email hidden] wrote on 8/4/04 8:24 PM:

Quoted message said:

"Sonarrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Axel Merckx?? Do they really need another rider of that type? They've
already got Hincapie to fail to win the Belgian classics, but show enough
class to keep the underdog-watchers hoping with palms clutched to their
hearts...

Come on Jeff, you're better than that.

Axel and George are both coming into their best Spring Classic years right
now. Axel has consistantly tested stronger, faster and more enduring than
his father. He just doesn't have Eddy's killer instinct. Maybe he'll get it
and maybe he won't.

But I'll tell you one thing for certain - if Eddy was racing today he sure
as hell wouldn't be winning like he did in his day. He would have to
specialize or end up like Laurent Jalabert, always being ALMOST a great
rider.

I don't see any of this taking away from what I said.

You may see it as a good thing or as a bad thing, but Hincapie and Merckx
alike have always been highly touted, but have not visibly improved with
age. They make the same tactical errors, too - I may be just an armchair
coach, but it's not that hard to figure out that the rider who forces the
selection will be the rider who's out of gas at the finish 99% of the time.

-Sonarrat.

I think they picked up Axel for two reasons...

1) He's another good face to have if looking for Belgian sponsors.
2) I think Lance, who pretty much calls these shots, recognizes
potential (and has a pretty good record) and with the right team Axel
could do much better. He's really no slouch, he placeed 21st overall
in the TdF this year.

Sonarrat said:

Axel Merckx?? Do they really need another rider of that type? They've
already got Hincapie to fail to win the Belgian classics, but show enough
class to keep the underdog-watchers hoping with palms clutched to their
hearts...

Insurance for the TDF, after all there's no guarantee that Hincapie will
always be in the best of health at future TDF's. After all its common
knowledge that Postal/Discovery are really only interested in the TDF.

Sonarrat said:

Axel Merckx?? Do they really need another rider of that type? They've
already got Hincapie to fail to win the Belgian classics, but show enough
class to keep the underdog-watchers hoping with palms clutched to their
hearts...

-Sonarrat.

Well maybe there's other reasons. Buying the competition, for instance?
Don't laugh, I've heard it said. ;-p

-B

Tom Kunich said:

"Sonarrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Axel Merckx?? Do they really need another rider of that type? They've
already got Hincapie to fail to win the Belgian classics, but show enough
class to keep the underdog-watchers hoping with palms clutched to their
hearts...

Come on Jeff, you're better than that.

Axel and George are both coming into their best Spring Classic years right
now. Axel has consistantly tested stronger, faster and more enduring than
his father. He just doesn't have Eddy's killer instinct. Maybe he'll get it
and maybe he won't.

But I'll tell you one thing for certain - if Eddy was racing today he sure
as hell wouldn't be winning like he did in his day. He would have to
specialize or end up like Laurent Jalabert, always being ALMOST a great
rider.

Aren't you forgetting to factor in the other things that would -help-
Merckx if he were riding today? Nutrition, training philosophy, benefits of
being on a well-financed team, best technology, wind-tunnel, etc.?

I'm not propping Merckx, I'm just saying maybe we didn't even see his max
potential in his day b/c there wasn't stiff enough competition on the whole
to really push him. In later years he declined due to preventable injury
and maybe overtraining.

-B

in article [email hidden], Richard Adams at
[email hidden] wrote on 8/5/04 9:11 AM:

Quoted message said:

Sonarrat <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

in article [email hidden], Tom Kunich
at [email hidden] wrote on 8/4/04 8:24 PM:

Quoted message said:

"Sonarrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Axel Merckx?? Do they really need another rider of that type? They've
> already got Hincapie to fail to win the Belgian classics, but show enough
> class to keep the underdog-watchers hoping with palms clutched to their
> hearts...

Come on Jeff, you're better than that.

Axel and George are both coming into their best Spring Classic years right
now. Axel has consistantly tested stronger, faster and more enduring than
his father. He just doesn't have Eddy's killer instinct. Maybe he'll get it
and maybe he won't.

But I'll tell you one thing for certain - if Eddy was racing today he sure
as hell wouldn't be winning like he did in his day. He would have to
specialize or end up like Laurent Jalabert, always being ALMOST a great
rider.

I don't see any of this taking away from what I said.

You may see it as a good thing or as a bad thing, but Hincapie and Merckx
alike have always been highly touted, but have not visibly improved with
age. They make the same tactical errors, too - I may be just an armchair
coach, but it's not that hard to figure out that the rider who forces the
selection will be the rider who's out of gas at the finish 99% of the time.

-Sonarrat.

I think they picked up Axel for two reasons...

1) He's another good face to have if looking for Belgian sponsors.
2) I think Lance, who pretty much calls these shots, recognizes
potential (and has a pretty good record) and with the right team Axel
could do much better. He's really no slouch, he placeed 21st overall
in the TdF this year.

I was thinking in terms of having two riders of the same style as George
Hincapie. But then I heard there was a personal bond, as Axel rode for
Motorola in the mid-'90s... and when I think about it more carefully, it
wouldn't hurt to have another guy as powerful as him in reserve for a Tour
team.

-Sonarrat.

"Donald Munro" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sonarrat said:

Axel Merckx?? Do they really need another rider of that type? They've
already got Hincapie to fail to win the Belgian classics, but show

enough

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

class to keep the underdog-watchers hoping with palms clutched to their
hearts...

Insurance for the TDF, after all there's no guarantee that Hincapie will
always be in the best of health at future TDF's. After all its common
knowledge that Postal/Discovery are really only interested in the TDF.

Not only insurance for future TdF, but also the Giro and the Vuelta. I
think the ProTour will change a lot about how and who the teams do hiring.
The PT teams have to race (or represent) all the classics and grand tours.
Tough schedule

Quoted message said:

"Donald Munro" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sonarrat said:

Axel Merckx?? Do they really need another rider of that type? They've
already got Hincapie to fail to win the Belgian classics, but show

enough

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

class to keep the underdog-watchers hoping with palms clutched to their
hearts...

Insurance for the TDF, after all there's no guarantee that Hincapie will
always be in the best of health at future TDF's. After all its common
knowledge that Postal/Discovery are really only interested in the TDF.

Not only insurance for future TdF, but also the Giro and the Vuelta. I
think the ProTour will change a lot about how and who the teams do hiring.
The PT teams have to race (or represent) all the classics and grand tours.
Tough schedule

Quoted message said:

"Sonarrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

They make the same tactical errors, too - I may be just an armchair
coach, but it's not that hard to figure out that the rider who forces the
selection will be the rider who's out of gas at the finish 99% of the

time.

Just out of curiosity, just what do you think "tactical errors" are? Going
with the wrong break? Not being able to carry an attack to the end?

As for that rediculous "rider who forces the selection" business, perhaps
you'd like to explain that to Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault, Laurent Fignon,
Greg LeMond, Charly Mottet and Lance Armstrong?

I think that you have a lot of growing up to do. A great deal of racing is
based on luck. Being at the front when the right break goes is almost pure
luck. Having the "right" break form is another. Having the pack leave the
break alone for too long is another.

But apparently as an American who seems to know nothing but crits you imply
that somehow Axel or George should wait until the end and then sprint
against Petacchi.

"Badger_South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Aren't you forgetting to factor in the other things that would -help-
Merckx if he were riding today? Nutrition, training philosophy, benefits

of

Quoted message said:

being on a well-financed team, best technology, wind-tunnel, etc.?

Sorry none of that would make any difference. For one thing what do you
suppose would be "nutrition" differences? Training philosophies? Come on!
Everyone is doing it the same way. You don't get an advantage by doing it
the same as everyone else and evreyone is doing it the same because physical
training is a science and not an art.

Quoted message said:

I'm not propping Merckx, I'm just saying maybe we didn't even see his max
potential in his day b/c there wasn't stiff enough competition on the

whole

Quoted message said:

to really push him. In later years he declined due to preventable injury
and maybe overtraining.

Merckx wasn't superior to his competition because he was physically stronger
but because he was mentally stronger.

"Joe Yannie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Donald Munro" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sonarrat said:

Axel Merckx?? Do they really need another rider of that type? They've
already got Hincapie to fail to win the Belgian classics, but show

enough

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

class to keep the underdog-watchers hoping with palms clutched to their
hearts...

Insurance for the TDF, after all there's no guarantee that Hincapie will
always be in the best of health at future TDF's. After all its common
knowledge that Postal/Discovery are really only interested in the TDF.

Not only insurance for future TdF, but also the Giro and the Vuelta. I
think the ProTour will change a lot about how and who the teams do hiring.
The PT teams have to race (or represent) all the classics and grand tours.
Tough schedule

Quoted message said:

Good point, it will be interesting to watch the PT teams restructure
to better equip for the Pro Tour format. Discovery has the advantage
of having a solid budget in place before many others and seem to be
using that to get the depth they need with Popyvych and Merckx among
others. They may also be buffering themselves from the inevitable
departures as some of their stronger riders get pulled away to better
lead roles elsewhere.

Quoted message said:

Merckx wasn't superior to his competition because he was physically

stronger

Quoted message said:

but because he was mentally stronger.

Yeah, Merckx didn't have any physical gifts, he was just so GODLIKE that he
ATE THE COMPETITION.

Or not. Maybe he was born that way. I hear BS that he wasn't gifted, but he
probably had by far the highest lactic threshold of all of his competitors.

in article [email hidden], Tom Kunich
at [email hidden] wrote on 8/5/04 2:20 PM:

Quoted message said:

"Sonarrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

They make the same tactical errors, too - I may be just an armchair
coach, but it's not that hard to figure out that the rider who forces the
selection will be the rider who's out of gas at the finish 99% of the

time.

Just out of curiosity, just what do you think "tactical errors" are? Going
with the wrong break? Not being able to carry an attack to the end?

In the case of these two, being too active at the front when it should be a
domestique driving the pace. Either of them might be seen to
single-handedly drag a large group back up to a breakaway, then be surprised
when somebody counter-attacks. It's absolutely academic.

Quoted message said:

As for that rediculous "rider who forces the selection" business, perhaps
you'd like to explain that to Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault, Laurent Fignon,
Greg LeMond, Charly Mottet and Lance Armstrong?

Armstrong doesn't force the selection. He pays guys to do it for him and
then squirts off.

-Sonarrat.

Sonarrat <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Axel Merckx?? Do they really need another rider of that type? They've
already got Hincapie to fail to win the Belgian classics, but show enough
class to keep the underdog-watchers hoping with palms clutched to their
hearts...

-Sonarrat.

They still have Devolder who's able of winning Gent-Wevelgem and other
spring 1.1 and 1.2 races.

Kenny

Sonarrat <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Axel Merckx?? Do they really need another rider of that type? They've
already got Hincapie to fail to win the Belgian classics, but show enough
class to keep the underdog-watchers hoping with palms clutched to their
hearts...

-Sonarrat.

They still have Devolder who's able of winning Gent-Wevelgem and other
spring 1.1 and 1.2 races.

Kenny

Sonarrat <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Axel Merckx?? Do they really need another rider of that type? They've
already got Hincapie to fail to win the Belgian classics, but show enough
class to keep the underdog-watchers hoping with palms clutched to their
hearts...

-Sonarrat.

They still have Devolder who's able of winning Gent-Wevelgem and other
spring 1.1 and 1.2 races.

Kenny