Powerbar woes

[email hidden] (Tom Keats) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

the black rose said:

I think I should start making my own.

I've set out to make powerbars a few times. But each time,
I figured 'in for a dime; in for a dollar', and ended up
making cookies or date-nut loaf instead.

Try this:

<http://cookie.allrecipes.com/az/PowerBars.asp>

Not for those who already said they are allergic to peanuts!

O

Quoted message said:

meat, fish, fowl, eggs, cheese, veggies...

yep but trying finding a fun food. almost no pre made sausage or pre made
anything. even a can of peas has added sugar.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Claire Petersky wrote:
:: "David Reuteler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
::: the black rose <[email hidden]> wrote:
:::: Avocados make my mouth itch and get blisters, which means no
:::: guacamole. Hardly the same scale as being forbidden baklava.
:::
::: mon dieu! i would sooner starve to death than live a life without
::: avacados. baklava is certainly tasty but avacados are something
::: else entirely. a gift from the gods for vegetarians. it's up
::: there with portabello mushrooms and eggplants. incomparable to a
::: mere dessert.
::
:: I believe that avocados are also recommended to cyclists because of
:: their vitamin and especially potassium content -- higher than
:: bananas. Of course, it's their fat content that makes them so tasty
:: -- but isn't it one of those "good" fats?

Yes.

I LOVE avocados- I can just sit and eat one like an apple.

On Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:17:52 -0400, Marlene Blanshay <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Claire Petersky wrote:
:: "David Reuteler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
::: the black rose <[email hidden]> wrote:
:::: Avocados make my mouth itch and get blisters, which means no
:::: guacamole. Hardly the same scale as being forbidden baklava.
:::
::: mon dieu! i would sooner starve to death than live a life without
::: avacados. baklava is certainly tasty but avacados are something
::: else entirely. a gift from the gods for vegetarians. it's up
::: there with portabello mushrooms and eggplants. incomparable to a
::: mere dessert.
::
:: I believe that avocados are also recommended to cyclists because of
:: their vitamin and especially potassium content -- higher than
:: bananas. Of course, it's their fat content that makes them so tasty
:: -- but isn't it one of those "good" fats?

Yes.

I LOVE avocados- I can just sit and eat one like an apple.

I ate a low fat diet for so long that avocados are something verboten.
However, now that I'm on low carb, I'm going to see if they are any good.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

the black rose said:

I think I should start making my own

try Fig Bars--they're energy dense and cheap. I used to eat a half a
package per day when I worked on my mouth. Lots of sugar and refined
flour, just the ticket. LOL

Warning, make sure to have water about as they like to stick to the roof
of your mouth an the yu tah lah theth. 😄

As to the posters claiming to be on low carb diets: can you really enjoy
long rides on such a diet, or do you bonk after half an hour? I'm not
trolling, it just seems impractical.

maxo said:

the black rose said:

I think I should start making my own

try Fig Bars--they're energy dense and cheap. I used to eat a half a
package per day when I worked on my mouth. Lots of sugar and refined
flour, just the ticket. LOL

Warning, make sure to have water about as they like to stick to the roof
of your mouth an the yu tah lah theth. 😄

As to the posters claiming to be on low carb diets: can you really enjoy
long rides on such a diet, or do you bonk after half an hour? I'm not
trolling, it just seems impractical.

No. I do take carbs (dextrose and a relatively low carb bar, and perhaps
protein) with me for long rides (over 2 hours) and I will take in small
amounts (10-20 grams) of carbs before and after the rides. If I have a
very long ride, say 4+ hours, I'll do some small amount of carbo loading
the day before (like eating some fruit) and I typically will have one high
carb meal immediately after the ride. Other than that, I eat vegetables
and meat. It's very strange -- I have as much energy at the end of the
ride as I have at the beginning, it's just that I'm physically pooped
after my long rides. I have the energy to continue; I just don't want to
continue.

The only bad thing about fig bars is that they have partially hydrogenated
oils. I was thinking of using them, too, but the oils killed that idea.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

"Marlene Blanshay" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I LOVE avocados- I can just sit and eat one like an apple.

I hope you peel it first. 8-)

Dave

Bob in CT said:

I used to eat a half a

Quoted message said:

package per day when I worked on my mouth.

mouth=bike

that's my favourite typo of the day

[slaps self]

Bob in CT said:

maxo said:

the black rose said:

I think I should start making my own

try Fig Bars--they're energy dense and cheap. I used to eat a half a
package per day when I worked on my mouth. Lots of sugar and refined
flour, just the ticket. LOL

Warning, make sure to have water about as they like to stick to the roof
of your mouth an the yu tah lah theth. 😄

As to the posters claiming to be on low carb diets: can you really enjoy
long rides on such a diet, or do you bonk after half an hour? I'm not
trolling, it just seems impractical.

No. I do take carbs (dextrose and a relatively low carb bar, and
perhaps protein) with me for long rides (over 2 hours) and I will take
in small amounts (10-20 grams) of carbs before and after the rides. If
I have a very long ride, say 4+ hours, I'll do some small amount of
carbo loading the day before (like eating some fruit) and I typically
will have one high carb meal immediately after the ride. Other than
that, I eat vegetables and meat.

I'm honestly curious what kind of intensity a non-diabetic low-carb
dieter can maintain when exercising. What I'm reading as I do research
on the topic is that people who exercise at moderate to high intensity
are hitting the wall way early if they play around with low carb diets.
And it makes sense -- even if you're at the 60-80 carbs/day level with
Atkins, 80 carbs are only 320 calories. To put that into practical
terms, for me, that's only about 35 minutes at 75% of my VO2max. If
you're bigger than me (I'm only 135 pounds, so most of you are), it's
even less time than that.

I'm convinced that low carb diets are for sedentary people and people
with insulin-related disorders such as diabetes (such as Bob). It looks
like it's possible to maintain low intensity exercise on a low carb
diet, but anything more than that and you just can't replenish your
glycogen stores fast enough to replace what you're using on what little
carbohydrate is allowed by such diets. Maybe moderate to high intensity
exercise with several days between, I dunno; it's certainly not
something you could do every day.

The early weight loss on low carb diets is very seductive, but I'm not
convinced that being deprived of so many nutritious fruits and
vegetables -- most of which are important for building a healthy immune
system and guarding against cancer and heart disease -- is really that wise.

I could be wrong, of course. But if I am, someone is going to have to
explain Japan to me -- where the usual diet is composed of 70-80% carbs,
but where the rate of obesity, cancer, diabetes and heart disease is one
of the lowest in the world.

-km

--
the black rose
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

I'm on low carb too, the variation known as the south beach diet.
http://www.southbeachdiet.com but get the book under 20.
Good fat nsautrated fats is like LDL, e.g. vegatable (corn, soybean,
sunflower) oils
Almost as good is mono-unsaturated fats, e.g. olive oil.
Moderately bad is saturated fats, like lard from animals or on meat.
The worst are trans-fats, also known as hydrogenated vegatable oil, e.g.
margarin. Transfats do not occur in nature so out bodies are not
adapted to digest them.

Bob in CT said:

DRS said:

"Bob in CT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:26:18 -0400, Roger Zoul <[email hidden]>
wrote:
> Claire Petersky wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

>>> I believe that avocados are also recommended to cyclists because of
>>> their vitamin and especially potassium content -- higher than
>>> bananas. Of course, it's their fat content that makes them so tasty
>>> -- but isn't it one of those "good" fats?
>
> Yes.

If there is such a thing as a "good" or "bad" fat...

There most certainly are.

I'm unconvinced. I'm on low carb and eat more saturated fat than I ever
have (after being on low fat for many years), and I've increased my HDL,
decreased my fasting blood glucose, decreased my triglycerides and
improved my total cholesterol/HDL ratios. All the while losing almost 60
pounds.

For opposing viewpoints to yours, see:

http://www.thincs.org/
http://www.mercola.com/2002/aug/17/saturated_fat1.htm
http://www.westonaprice.org/know_your_fats/know_your_fats.html

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

Low carb is not no carb. Actually, you want good carbs in un0refined
foods where the carbs are slowly absorbed into the blood stream. Bad
carbs to avoid are like sugar, fruit juice, potatoes where the carbs are
quickly absorbed and stored as fat. And just before and during
exercise, you certainly should have some carbs as fuel.

maxo said:

the black rose said:

I think I should start making my own

try Fig Bars--they're energy dense and cheap. I used to eat a half a
package per day when I worked on my mouth. Lots of sugar and refined
flour, just the ticket. LOL

Warning, make sure to have water about as they like to stick to the roof
of your mouth an the yu tah lah theth. 😄

As to the posters claiming to be on low carb diets: can you really enjoy
long rides on such a diet, or do you bonk after half an hour? I'm not
trolling, it just seems impractical.

In article <[email hidden]>,

(R.White) said:

Try this:

<http://cookie.allrecipes.com/az/PowerBars.asp>

Not for those who already said they are allergic to peanuts!

Yeah, well, these li'l b*st*rds'll keep ya goin':

http://www.sweetbabymedia.com/recipes/allbynumber4/016835.shtml

Cowboy Cookies ... yumm[y]. A Google search on "cowboy cookies"
readily turns up other variations, but the basic, oatmeal/
chocolate-chip idea permeates all the recipes.

Make 'em soft enough, and they won't friably crumble in your
fingers and fall all over the road before ya get a chance ta
eat 'em. No sticky goo to transfer from your fingers to your
brake levers, and they don't melt like the Wicked Witch of the
West doused in a bucketful of water, or a Godiva Bar in a jersey
pocket on a hot summer day. As far as I can see, they're just
round, homemade PowerBars. With a little more palatableness.
No peanuts (unless ya want 'em.) And you can add, subtract or
substitute ingredients as desired.

So, they're not crumbly, not sticky, and not melty.
And they just plain taste good.

cheers,
Tom

--
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Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Wed, 4 Aug 2004 23:53:13 -0700, <[email hidden]>,

(Tom Keats) said:

As far as I can see, they're just
round, homemade PowerBars. With a little more palatableness.

My friend Guy makes Power Balls that are delicious. Lotsa seeds
--
zk

the black rose said:

Bob in CT said:

maxo said:

On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 17:26:51 +0000, the black rose wrote:

> I think I should start making my own

try Fig Bars--they're energy dense and cheap. I used to eat a half a
package per day when I worked on my mouth. Lots of sugar and refined
flour, just the ticket. LOL

Warning, make sure to have water about as they like to stick to the
roof
of your mouth an the yu tah lah theth. 😄

As to the posters claiming to be on low carb diets: can you really
enjoy
long rides on such a diet, or do you bonk after half an hour? I'm not
trolling, it just seems impractical.

No. I do take carbs (dextrose and a relatively low carb bar, and
perhaps protein) with me for long rides (over 2 hours) and I will take
in small amounts (10-20 grams) of carbs before and after the rides. If
I have a very long ride, say 4+ hours, I'll do some small amount of
carbo loading the day before (like eating some fruit) and I typically
will have one high carb meal immediately after the ride. Other than
that, I eat vegetables and meat.

I'm honestly curious what kind of intensity a non-diabetic low-carb
dieter can maintain when exercising. What I'm reading as I do research
on the topic is that people who exercise at moderate to high intensity
are hitting the wall way early if they play around with low carb diets.
And it makes sense -- even if you're at the 60-80 carbs/day level with
Atkins, 80 carbs are only 320 calories. To put that into practical
terms, for me, that's only about 35 minutes at 75% of my VO2max. If
you're bigger than me (I'm only 135 pounds, so most of you are), it's
even less time than that.

I'm convinced that low carb diets are for sedentary people and people
with insulin-related disorders such as diabetes (such as Bob). It looks
like it's possible to maintain low intensity exercise on a low carb
diet, but anything more than that and you just can't replenish your
glycogen stores fast enough to replace what you're using on what little
carbohydrate is allowed by such diets. Maybe moderate to high intensity
exercise with several days between, I dunno; it's certainly not
something you could do every day.

The early weight loss on low carb diets is very seductive, but I'm not
convinced that being deprived of so many nutritious fruits and
vegetables -- most of which are important for building a healthy immune
system and guarding against cancer and heart disease -- is really that
wise.

I could be wrong, of course. But if I am, someone is going to have to
explain Japan to me -- where the usual diet is composed of 70-80% carbs,
but where the rate of obesity, cancer, diabetes and heart disease is one
of the lowest in the world.

-km

The Japanese have different genes? They work more/walk more/etc.? I'm
not Japanese?

Honestly, I ate low fat for many years and ate low carb for the last two.
All low fat did for me was give or exacerbate my insulin resistance and
cause me to be depressed (there's nothing like huge swings in blood sugar
to cause depression) and hungry. Moreover, on low carb, my blood lipids
have improved (HDL increased, blood glucose much lower, triglycerides
lower, total cholesterol/HDL better, liver and kidney funtion better -- I
could go on). Plus, I feel so much better on low carb than I did on low
fat. The 3pm sleepies? Gone. Any heartburn? Gone. Constant blood
sugar swings? Gone.

This weekend, I'll ride about 63-65 miles. During that ride, my HR will
be above 90% of my max HR for about 1/3 of the time. That means that for
about 1.5 to two hours (I estimate it'll take me 4.5-4.75 hours), my HR
will be above 90% of my max HR. I'll gain between 5-6,000 feet in
elevation (I'll know exactly, as I'm taking my GPS with me). The ride
profile starts relatively flat, then goes all uphill until I turn around.
Then, it's quite a bit of downhill except for one very hard hill (where I
exceed 50mph down it, and that's with the brakes on), and then the last
two miles include the hardest hill I've ever ridden. It's only about a
mile long but it's extremely steep and just keeps going -- there's no
respite. It's especially hard when I've ridden 60+ miles.

And, as for not eating vegetables and fruits, I eat a ton of vegetables
and berries and some selected fruits. People think "low carb = no carb,"
and this is totally wrong. I eat more vegetables on low carb than I ever
ate on low fat. Remember, pasta is at the bottom of the food pyramid, so
I ate tons of pasta, whole wheat bread, brown rice, beans, etc. I simply
stopped eating that [censored] (though I do eat beans every now and then) and
dramatically increased my vegetable intake.

What I ate yesterday:

breakfast: 3 eggs, fresh mozarella (sp?), 2 slices canadian bacon, fresh
basil
lunch: 2 pork chops
snacks: cucumber, radishes, mushrooms, calamata olives in vinegar
dinner: shrimp with tomatoes, herbs, feta cheese; salad with olive oil and
lemon dressing; cous cous with brocolli, additional vegetables, and
calamata olives (typically, I would not eat cous cous, but my girlfriend
made it; instead, I'd eat more vegetables, such as brocolli, grean beans,
peas, or peppers)

I usually will also have yoghurt with berries and nuts, although I did not
have that yesterday.

What did you eat?

--
Bob in CT
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"Bob in CT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

[...]

Quoted message said:

And, as for not eating vegetables and fruits, I eat a ton of
vegetables and berries and some selected fruits. People think "low
carb = no carb," and this is totally wrong. I eat more vegetables on
low carb than I ever ate on low fat.

That needed to be said again. And again and again. I'm so sick of people
criticising low-carb when they haven't got a clue what it is or how it
works.

Quoted message said:

Remember, pasta is at the
bottom of the food pyramid, so I ate tons of pasta, whole wheat
bread, brown rice, beans, etc. I simply stopped eating that [censored]
(though I do eat beans every now and then) and dramatically increased
my vegetable intake.

Brown rice is OK.

--

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Tom Keats said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

(R.White) said:

Try this:

<http://cookie.allrecipes.com/az/PowerBars.asp>

Not for those who already said they are allergic to peanuts!

Yeah, well, these li'l b*st*rds'll keep ya goin':

http://www.sweetbabymedia.com/recipes/allbynumber4/016835.shtml

Mmmm, thanks for the link. Those look good. I think I'll add some
pecans... *drool*

-km

--
the black rose
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

DRS said:

"Bob in CT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

[...]

Quoted message said:

And, as for not eating vegetables and fruits, I eat a ton of
vegetables and berries and some selected fruits. People think "low
carb = no carb," and this is totally wrong. I eat more vegetables on
low carb than I ever ate on low fat.

That needed to be said again. And again and again. I'm so sick of people
criticising low-carb when they haven't got a clue what it is or how it
works.

Low carb is < 80 carbs/day, yes? That's what I was basing my analysis on.

I was also specifically excluding diabetics like Bob. He stated that he
takes carbs with him on rides and does moderate carbo-loading before
long rides (which doesn't really fit with Atkins' ideas as far as I can
tell). It would be really interesting if Bob actually counted up all
his carbs each day for, say, a week, and see if his intake really is
below 80 gm/day. Veggies have a lot of complex carbs.

-km

--
the black rose
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

Mike Schwab said:

Low carb is not no carb. Actually, you want good carbs in un0refined
foods where the carbs are slowly absorbed into the blood stream. Bad
carbs to avoid are like sugar, fruit juice, potatoes where the carbs are
quickly absorbed and stored as fat.

Carbs are only stored as fat if you don't use 'em. If your glycogen
stores need replenishing, that's where they go first.

-km

--
the black rose
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

"the black rose" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

DRS said:

"Bob in CT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

[...]

Quoted message said:

And, as for not eating vegetables and fruits, I eat a ton of
vegetables and berries and some selected fruits. People think "low
carb = no carb," and this is totally wrong. I eat more vegetables
on low carb than I ever ate on low fat.

That needed to be said again. And again and again. I'm so sick of
people criticising low-carb when they haven't got a clue what it is
or how it works.

Low carb is < 80 carbs/day, yes? That's what I was basing my
analysis on.

Not necessarily. Atkins' approach is to drop carbs back to 20g per day
during the heavily restrictive Induction Phase and progressively eases up
during the later, less restrictive phases. There is no set figure for carbs
because it's ridiculous to even try. It must be proportional to your TDEE,
which obviously is going to vary enormously from person to person. 80g per
day might be right for you but not for me. It cannot be arbitrarily
determined. The Atkins method is to increase your carb intake from very low
induction level in 5g increments until the weight loss stops. That is then
considered your upper limit for carbs and you now know to stay below it.
It's not an approach I agree with or endorse but then I don't do Atkins,
even though I am on a high protein diet.

[...]

Quoted message said:

below 80 gm/day. Veggies have a lot of complex carbs.

Quite so. And Atkins encourages people to eat them. It's against high GI
starchy vegetables like potatoes but leafy green vegetables and the like are
not just approved but recommended and I wish people would stop trying to
pretend otherwise.

--

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Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 01:00:29 +1000, "DRS" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

below 80 gm/day. Veggies have a lot of complex carbs.

Quite so. And Atkins encourages people to eat them. It's against high GI
starchy vegetables like potatoes but leafy green vegetables and the like are
not just approved but recommended and I wish people would stop trying to
pretend otherwise.

What might be fun is to create a 'low carb diet for athletes', taking into
account the glucose window (time window on either side of an activity
spike), and supporting some theory on how 'being in a keto burning phase'
(if there is such a thing) enables or inhibits modestly active exercising.

Personally, I think it enables it, such that you can get into and stay in
the 'fat-burning phase' - typically at 90 - 120 minutes biking - more
easily, your system being "used" to burning ketones. No cites or evidence
for that, I'm aware of. I find I seem to get into that fat-burning phase
sooner b/c of the LC diet, usually about 45 min I start to feel 'different'
energy coming out. It doesn't seem to be second-wind (whatever that is),
b/c That seems to come at 20 minutes.

As most know, I just spent 2 weeks at the beach on a fun biking vacation,
taking advantage of the flats to do some speed work. During that time I
lived with my brother who is hard-core LC. For the main course we had
mostly protein, cheese, nuts and milk. For snacks we munched on raw
veggies: celery, turnips, peppers, radish, mushroom, onion, cauliflower,
and cucumbers but not huge quantities - a handfull a 2-3 times a day.

Anyway, on this diet (no obvious carbs, is what I call it), we cycled 150
miles for two weeks, average speed on the flats 16-17mph, ending up with a
20 miler with avg speeds of 18-19mph. That's not -really fast-, but there's
some heavy breathing involved on the false flats.

Before going on a long ride (20-30miles), I'd eat three small pieces of
candy before the ride - no good reason - but maybe thinking 'glucose
pre-load'. If food is digested more slowly when exercising, I figured it
would be timed to hit the bloodsteam in the glucose window, or at ~90
minutes.

At no time did I bonk, or anything and at 12 miles, typically had a surge
of energy, even on shorter rides with no 'candy' supplementation.

I did lose 11lbs, though, and waistline decreased 2 inches. Quads diameter
increased 3/4 of an inch. (I call it a 'whoosh', b/c it happened over a 3
day period, beginning of week 2, where it just dropped off). I remember
waking up in the morning and looking in the mirror and thinking 'hey I look
different!' - one of the often reported features of the LC diet, btw).

So, for me, it's a diet that I can work with. I could be all wrong on the
'reasons' postulated above - that's just the current working hypothesis.
;-)

-B