Urgent Help on Cycle track & lane dangers -- please.

Try http://www.thebikezone.org.uk/thebikezone/campaigning/cyclepaths.html

Regards,

Howard.

in message <[email hidden]>, Tony W

(') said:

I am meeting with the County Council's Highways engineers, their
consultants and English Partnerships tomorrow because I am questioning
the cycling provision proposed for a new road through a brown field
development in town.

They want a stupidly narrow road with shared use tracks on each side.
This road will have about 12 junctions over a 2 - 3 key route!!

I need to find some wham bam data showing how dangerous this type of
provision is -- and I simply do not have time to Google for it. I've
had a quick look at lesberries but even that is not giving me the data
fast enough.

I wasn't going to reply to this as I'm not the expert, but as no-one
else has here are my key resources:

<URL:http://www.jfparker.demon.co.uk/lane_links.html>
Lots of links

<URL:http://www.lesberries.co.uk/cycling/infra/infra.html>
A whole set of useful papers, from an acknowledged UK expert.

<URL:http://www.toronto.ca/transportation/publications/bicycle_motor-vehicle/index.htm>
Very detailed and useful.

<URL:http://www.bicyclinglife.com/Library/riskfactors.htm>
Very detailed and useful.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Anagram: I'm soon broke.

"Tony W" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am meeting with the County Council's Highways engineers, their

consultants

Quoted message said:

and English Partnerships tomorrow because I am questioning the cycling
provision proposed for a new road through a brown field development in

town.

Quoted message said:

They want a stupidly narrow road with shared use tracks on each side.

This

Quoted message said:

road will have about 12 junctions over a 2 - 3 key route!!

If you don't like the roadside tracks then nobody is forcing you to use
them. They might be useful to beginner cyclists who like to potter along at
5mph and don't like being on the road.

"Adrian Boliston" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If you don't like the roadside tracks then nobody is forcing you to use
them. They might be useful to beginner cyclists who like to potter along

at

Quoted message said:

5mph and don't like being on the road.

I do not like roadside tracks -- but I want to keep this one. This is a
complex issue and I am trying to argue for improved on and off road
provision here -- but safe provision. Currently the designers are proposing
unsafe on and off road provision.

T

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I wasn't going to reply to this as I'm not the expert, but as no-one
else has here are my key resources:

<URL:http://www.jfparker.demon.co.uk/lane_links.html>
Lots of links

<URL:http://www.lesberries.co.uk/cycling/infra/infra.html>
A whole set of useful papers, from an acknowledged UK expert.

<URL:http://www.toronto.ca/transportation/publications/bicycle_motor-vehicle
/index.htm>

Quoted message said:

Very detailed and useful.

<URL:http://www.bicyclinglife.com/Library/riskfactors.htm>
Very detailed and useful.

Thanks Simon & Howard. Saved me some time.

I owe you one.

T

"Adrian Boliston" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

If you don't like the roadside tracks then nobody is forcing you to use
them.

Try telling that to those motorists who blow their horns, drive
aggressively and shout at cyclists to 'Get on the fuc*king cycle path!
where ever some inconvenient ill-designed, poorly surfaced and
maintained 'cycle path' has been created and the cyclist prefers to
exercise their legal right to stay on the road...

in message <[email hidden]>, Adrian Boliston

(') said:

"Tony W" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am meeting with the County Council's Highways engineers, their

consultants

Quoted message said:

and English Partnerships tomorrow because I am questioning the
cycling provision proposed for a new road through a brown field
development in

town.

Quoted message said:

They want a stupidly narrow road with shared use tracks on each side.

This

Quoted message said:

road will have about 12 junctions over a 2 - 3 key route!!

If you don't like the roadside tracks then nobody is forcing you to
use
them. They might be useful to beginner cyclists who like to potter
along at 5mph and don't like being on the road.

Those are precisely the people who get killed on them. They are
_extremely_ dangerous and should not be used.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Those are precisely the people who get killed on them. They are
_extremely_ dangerous and should not be used.

Having spent nearly 2 hours telling a supercilious, inflexible, bureaucratic
[censored] just that I am [censored].

Still, round one went to the good guys. Today as an opportunity for the bad
guys to hit the good guys with rubber chickens -- on to the next Planning
Committee (who voted with the good guys last time but will doubtless get the
rubber chicken treatment).

Are all Highways Engineers complete jerks or is it only our local ones?

Frustrated of Northampton.

T

PS -- thanks for the help guys -- at least I knew what they were trying to
quote at me and could refute some of it.

Quoted message said:

Are all Highways Engineers complete jerks or is it only our local ones?

Frustrated of Northampton.

No, it's not just your local ones. I used to work with a bunch of highways'
engineers, and sometimes, nice blokes though most of them were... there was a
certain "not of this planet" aura around some of them.

As for Norfolk County Council highways... aaaggghhhh....

Cheers, helen s
(breaking out into a cold sweat at the memory of encounters with NCC
engineers...)

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--

"Tony W" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Are all Highways Engineers complete jerks or is it only our local ones?

Frustrated of Northampton.

The main problem is that they are all car drivers and they regard
forcing cyclists off the road as being a duty to fellow drivers.

You have probabaly already seen this but this might raise a few
laughs.

http://www.thebikezone.org.uk/thebikezone/confessions/coaco.html

Regards,

Howard.

"Howard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The main problem is that they are all car drivers and they regard
forcing cyclists off the road as being a duty to fellow drivers.

You have probabaly already seen this but this might raise a few
laughs.

http://www.thebikezone.org.uk/thebikezone/confessions/coaco.html

I have chuckled my way through parts of it before.

This sentence always seems to sum up the problem:

"Emblematic of these problems was my Principal Highway engineers obsession
with building traffic islands. In order to encourage greater levels of cycle
usage and to protect existing cyclists the first priority must be to make
the existing roads system more 'cycle friendly'. The road system is
comprehensive, passes everyone's door and is generally constructed to a high
standard. Unfortunately many traffic engineers seem set on making the normal
roads system as hostile to cyclists as possible and one of the easiest way
to do this is to install central traffic islands."

T

On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 18:42:55 +0100 someone who may be "Tony W"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Are all Highways Engineers complete jerks or is it only our local ones?

They are products of their education and the system they work
within. Both of these have traditionally seen speeding motor
vehicles up as the only objective. Thus they have seen getting those
dammed cyclists out of the way, making "safer" roads by lengthening
sightlines, bus laybys, getting trams "which delay motor vehicles"
off the streets and a host of other things as the correct thing to
do. Doing anything else is so outside their frame of reference that
they appear incapable of even grasping the issues.

Education has changed slightly recently, but the senior figures and
the systems they run are still in the old mould, so it is a brave
young engineer who dares to do things differently.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

"David Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 18:42:55 +0100 someone who may be "Tony W"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Are all Highways Engineers complete jerks or is it only our local ones?

They are products of their education and the system they work
within. Both of these have traditionally seen speeding motor
vehicles up as the only objective. Thus they have seen getting those
dammed cyclists out of the way, making "safer" roads by lengthening
sightlines, bus laybys, getting trams "which delay motor vehicles"
off the streets and a host of other things as the correct thing to
do. Doing anything else is so outside their frame of reference that
they appear incapable of even grasping the issues.

Education has changed slightly recently, but the senior figures and
the systems they run are still in the old mould, so it is a brave
young engineer who dares to do things differently.

I'm not sure about differently, doing things the same would be OK. Near
where I live they have just built a new roundabout. Now, about 1 week before
it was due to open, they are going to have to completely rebuild it, at a
cost of £500k, because lorries cant get round it! I doubt the £500k will be
coming out of their wages.

A few years ago they put a new bus stop on a section of road, and for some
bizzarre reason put a small island ahead of where the bus stopped (just in
front of some traffic lights) with a left lane filter. A year later they
removed it when they noticed that the island was obstructing the traffic
using the left lane/filter lane, that the bus had to pull out into the
middle lane thereby stopping two lanes, and when there was no bus, but
traffic backed up from the lights, no one could use the filter lane.

At the same set of traffic lights they put a new set of lights in. This had
the effect of significantly reducing congestion at the lights, which had
been pretty bad (1mile queue at some times of day). A few months ago they
changed , with new lights, to a different system. Now its back to a 1mile
queue, but it now has a new nifty accident-inducing feature which is a right
filter lane you can roar up and then swoop over to the left once through the
lights.

I believe the evidence therefore points to the fact that they are [censored].

--
Tumbleweed

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