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UK and Europe
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6 August 2004
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11 August 2004
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[Not Responding]
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  1. Full text, below. The Spectator now requires registration so I have
    fewer qualms about violating their copyright.

    Listen hard and you can hear J. Bonington-Jagworth grumbling loudly.
    The Association of London Government has announced that it is to fine
    motorists up to £100 a time for driving in the capital’s cycle lanes.
    The RAC Foundation, one of the many real-life organisations which have
    come to ape Peter Simple’s splendid Motorists’ Liberation Front, has
    already complained. Soon the dinner parties of Fulham will reverberate
    to moans that it is all but damned impossible to negotiate the King’s
    Road at more than 50 mph without landing a wheel or two of your Super
    Yobbo Sports Utility Vehicle in a cycle lane.

    We are inclined towards a libertarian approach to government.
    Nevertheless, it won’t prevent us from asking whether there might
    actually be some merit in the business of creating and policing cycle
    lanes. Unless one is going to embrace anarchy, it is impossible not
    feel sympathy with the London cyclist who is obliged to do battle with
    an angry stream of powered vehicles. If there ever was a proper role
    for the law, it is surely in protecting the weak and vulnerable.

    Sadly, it has become a grim orthodoxy in certain conservative circles
    that motorists’ rights must be supported at all costs and that lesser
    forms of road traffic, namely cyclists and pedestrians, must
    necessarily be treated with contempt. According to this philosophy,
    all motorists are red-blooded, free-born Englishmen merely attempting
    to mind their own business, while all cyclists and pedestrians are
    smug environmental fascists motivated by some puritanical desire to
    stop people having fun. True, there is some merit in this view; there
    are, indeed, some people who claim to have discovered mankind’s true
    vocation the moment that they venture out on a bicycle, and who care
    little for the needs of a mother of four children, isolated in a
    shopless village, attempting to deliver her young charges to various
    schools or bring home enough nuggets to feed her ravenous brood.

    Yet it is a travesty to claim that there is some kind of ‘war against
    the motorist’ in progress. The concept of fining motorists for
    reckless behaviour is hardly new: the first driver to find himself on
    the wrong side of the law was a Kentish miller by the name of Walter
    Arnold, fined one shilling for rampaging through the streets of
    Paddock Wood at the speed of eight miles per hour in January 1896. New
    Labour did not even introduce speed cameras to Britain’s roads. Much
    though the Conservatives love to try to make political capital from
    standing up against them now — this week they announced a review of
    cameras — it was they who introduced the wretched things to our
    streets in 1992.

    Transport policy encompasses everything that is depressing about
    public administration in modern Britain, from sclerotic bureaucracy to
    ill-thought-out populist gestures, wrapped up in a grandiose waste of
    our money. Take speed cameras. Although they are dumb animals in many
    respects — useless, for example, at detecting the morons who
    ‘tailgate’ you at 70 mph on the motorway — no sooner were they found
    to be doing their job than the government rendered them next to
    useless by painting them bright yellow, allowing reckless motorists to
    slow down for a few yards before accelerating away again on their
    murderous passage.

    Or take the countless ‘cycling initiatives’ which the government has
    launched over the past few years. They always follow the same pattern:
    a minister in helmet turns up at a school for a photocall with lots of
    grinning seven-year-olds. Then the council spends £500,000 on a
    feasibility study, which, following complaints from the bus-driving
    unions, ends up consisting of painting on the roads a few stretches of
    ‘cycle path’ which last for a mere 20 yards before delivering the
    cyclist straight into a bollard or into the path of oncoming traffic.
    Parents wisely decide that they are not, after all, going to risk
    letting little Rupert or Samantha pedal to school, so they go and buy
    an even bigger and better SUV instead.

    For a fraction of the money wasted on strategies, feasibility studies
    and half-hearted public works, the country could have a decent network
    of cycle paths entirely removed from road traffic. Just look at
    Holland, where you can happily pedal from one end of the country to
    the other on dedicated tracks. Why can’t we do the same here? In the
    countryside such a network could be provided at minimal cost. The thin
    strips of land required ought to cost no more than the average £2,500
    an acre commanded by agricultural land; better still, the land should
    be forcibly handed over to the public good in return for the mountains
    of agricultural subsidy paid to farmers over the past half century.

    There is only one thing standing in the way of this great contribution
    to health, the environment and human happiness: patheticness. Our
    public administrators have come to resemble a grumbling DIYer who
    keeps promising to put up a bookshelf; and who after several months’
    prevarication finally gets going on the project only to bash his thumb
    with the hammer and abandon the whole business. If they can overcome
    their instinctive nastiness towards non-motorists, perhaps cycle paths
    might even provide an opening for the Tories.

  2. Save us, please, from transport apartheid, where cyclists aren't allowed on the
    road!

    Digressing, there was the following article from one of the poor, beleageured
    motoring lobby, complaining about being caught speeding - on more than one
    occasion - by a speed camera. Poor dear... it was in the Torygraph yesterday.

    "Speed cameras can't read my thoughts
    By Harry Mount
    (Filed: 05/08/2004)

    If everything goes according to plan, I'll be banned from driving today. In
    Taunton at midday, the Avon and Somerset magistrates are sitting to consider
    whether, a few months ago, I drove at 71mph along a stretch of the M4 that had
    been temporarily restricted to 60mph for roadworks. If they decide I'm guilty,
    that's another three points to add to the nine I've already picked up. The
    chances are I'll be banned for a year.

    However good and kind the Taunton magistrates are - and I'm sure they're very
    good and very kind - they are given hardly any room for manoeuvre by the law,
    and I'm sure that, by lunchtime, I'll be off the road for having gone 11mph
    over the limit four times in three years.

    The first time I got snapped by a camera - 51mph in a 40mph zone in Richmond -
    I tried to appeal. The road was the feeder off the M3 that leads into London.
    Before you know it, you're being forced down from 70mph to 40mph, while still
    on a three-lane road. There were a few old signs, concealed by thornbushes, but
    there was no time to notice them before - flash, flash - I'd been caught.

    I didn't stand a chance of winning my appeal, even with the thornbush defence.
    The good, kind magistrates of Richmond looked at the crystal-clear photo of me
    barrelling along an empty road on a sunny day, gave me three points and doubled
    my fine for having the cheekiness to appeal.

    It wasn't their fault. They have as little room for interpretation of the law
    as the Taunton magistrates - i.e. next to none.

    Speeding charges are dropped only in exceptional circumstances. Like if you're
    driving the Home Secretary to a speaking engagement in Exeter. Four years ago,
    the Chief Crown Prosecutor for Avon and Somerset let Jack Straw's Special
    Branch driver off for belting down the southbound carriageway of the M5 at
    103mph - incidentally, near that jewel of the West Country, lovely, scenic
    Taunton.

    The prosecutor's excuse was that there had been an incident involving other
    cars nearby that concerned the driver; and that the then Home Secretary was one
    of the very small number of people known to be at significant risk of lethal
    attack.

    If you're not one of that very small number of people, there's no choice. You
    get photographed - and, so the official thinking goes, the speed camera never
    lies - so you get fined and have your licence endorsed.

    There are no other offences like it. As any junior barrister knows - even Tony
    Blair, who practised law for eight years, or Jack Straw, who did it for just
    two - most offences are made up of two parts: the mens rea (an evil intent) and
    the actus reus (an evil act). When you're caught by a speed camera, it doesn't
    matter whether you had the mens rea - the intention to speed - or not. All that
    matters in the eyes of the law is that you did it, irrespective of your state
    of mind.

    There are quite a few offences like this, called strict liability offences,
    where your intentions are neither here nor there. Strict liability offences are
    usually to do with things such as health and safety, or road traffic;
    quasi-criminal cases, where there's little stigma attached to the violation.

    So, for people who've done the most awful things, such as murder, there are all
    sorts of excuses about your state of mind that lessen the offence; such as the
    fact that you're a glue-sniffer or a domestic violence victim. But, when it
    comes to little things, like going 11mph too quickly down the M4, the law
    doesn't allow any mitigation over your intentions.

    It all seems to be the wrong way round. If you've been really naughty, you're
    allowed an excuse. But if you've done something footling, well, it doesn't
    matter if you've been slapped on the wrist a little too hard, does it? It's not
    like you're going to jail or anything.

    And, of all the strict liability offences, speed camera convictions are unique.
    Not only do you not need the evil intent in order to get prosecuted, but the
    way in which the cameras are set up - on long motorway straights or, like me in
    the West Country and in Richmond, just after a badly signed change from one
    speed limit to another - they are also specially designed to catch those with
    no evil intent.

    That's why the Tories at last seem to be doing something sensible in their
    promise to raise the speed limit to 80mph on those open straights and to audit
    speed cameras to gauge their effectiveness; particularly at a time when the
    Government is road-testing a new form of futuristic priggishness - a car that
    breathalyses you and won't let you drive if you've had a small glass of wine, a
    quarter of the current legal limit.

    No one could take against convicting somebody who drives a car at high speed
    through a town centre when their recklessness is so great that it practically
    amounts to the same as evil intent. In the same way, there's nothing wrong in
    putting up speed cameras in accident blackspots.

    But the vast majority of the 5,000 speed cameras in the country are not at
    accident black spots and they don't catch people who are driving dangerously.
    Instead, they are precisely positioned to catch out generally safe,
    conscientious drivers.

    To legislate by speed camera flies in the face of English legal history.
    Criminal law has accumulated over the past millennium as a combination of
    statute and common law to be interpreted by judges to give as fair a verdict as
    possible. It was never meant to be a device to catch out the normally
    law-abiding who are subject to the universally human fault of
    absent-mindedness, and, occasionally, let the speedo-meter creep up to 80mph on
    an empty motorway in high summer."

    The fact that if he'd actually not have broken the law in the first place, he
    wouldn't be facing the loss of his licence seems to have escaped the
    speedophile :-(

    Cheers, helen s

    --This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
    to get correct one remove fame & fortune
    h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

    --Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--

  3. dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:

    Save us, please, from transport apartheid, where cyclists aren't allowed on the
    road!

    Digressing, there was the following article from one of the poor, beleageured
    motoring lobby, complaining about being caught speeding - on more than one
    occasion - by a speed camera. Poor dear... it was in the Torygraph yesterday.

    <snip>

    Ah bless him... perhaps he should cycle for the next year? Erm...
    actually, no - second thoughts - he should get the bus.

    --
    Chris

  4. Quoted message said:

    It was never meant to be a device to catch out the normally
    law-abiding who are subject to the universally human fault of
    absent-mindedness, and, occasionally, let the speedo-meter creep up to 80mph on
    an empty motorway in high summer."

    That's a great line. The same defence could obviously be used for
    running someone over as after all, absent-mindedness is a "universally
    human fault".

    Jon

  5. in message <[email hidden]>, [Not

    Responding (') said:

    We are inclined towards a libertarian approach to government.

    If there ever was a proper role
    for the law, it is surely in protecting the weak and vulnerable.

    Transport policy encompasses everything that is depressing about
    public administration in modern Britain, from sclerotic bureaucracy to
    ill-thought-out populist gestures, wrapped up in a grandiose waste of
    our money.

    ... better still, the land should
    be forcibly handed over to the public good in return for the mountains
    of agricultural subsidy paid to farmers over the past half century.

    ... perhaps cycle paths
    might even provide an opening for the Tories.

    Good God! Well, everyone is said to get more right wing as they get
    older, but it seems I'm finally becoming a Conservative!

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    ;; An enamorata is for life, not just for weekends.

  6. mae <jon@restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk.remove> wedi ysgrifennu:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It was never meant to be a device to catch out the normally
    law-abiding who are subject to the universally human fault of
    absent-mindedness, and, occasionally, let the speedo-meter creep up
    to 80mph on an empty motorway in high summer."

    That's a great line. The same defence could obviously be used for
    running someone over as after all, absent-mindedness is a "universally
    human fault".

    I'd love to see the Torygraph defending a young, single mother who had
    "absent-mindedly" forgotten to pay for a bottle of vodka in Kwik Save.

    --
    Rob

    Please keep conversations in the newsgroup so that all may contribute
    and benefit.

  7. (dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers) said:

    By Harry Mount
    (Filed: 05/08/2004)

    Quoted message said:

    But the vast majority of the 5,000 speed cameras in the country are
    not at accident black spots and they don't catch people who are
    driving dangerously. Instead, they are precisely positioned to
    catch out generally safe, conscientious drivers.

    He knows that's not true and he still wrote it. Liar.

    A

  8. Quoted message said:

    I'll be off the road for having gone 11mph
    over the limit four times in three years.

    Sorry but No, little whining man, it's for having been _caught_
    significantly over the limit in four years. Surely even you have to admit
    that something like that only happens to stupid people?

  9. Mark Thompson said:
    Quoted message said:

    I'll be off the road for having gone 11mph over the limit four
    times in three years.

    Sorry but No, little whining man, it's for having been _caught_
    significantly over the limit in four years. Surely even you have to
    admit that something like that only happens to stupid people?

    It seems abundantly clear from the article that this time round it
    happened to an arrogant person not a stupid one (at least not stupid
    by some measures.)

    A

  10. [Not Responding] vaguely muttered something like ...

    Quoted message said:

    Full text, below. The Spectator now requires registration so I have
    fewer qualms about violating their copyright.

    Hear, hear .. 😉

    Quoted message said:

    Unless one is going to embrace anarchy, it is impossible not
    feel sympathy with the London cyclist who is obliged to do battle with
    an angry stream of powered vehicles.

    Most connurbations are similar during the 'rush-hours', why do so many
    'reporters' focus on just London problems ?

    Quoted message said:

    If there ever was a proper role
    for the law, it is surely in protecting the weak and vulnerable.

    Quite.

    Quoted message said:

    Yet it is a travesty to claim that there is some kind of 'war against
    the motorist' in progress.

    I'd agree .. but there does seem to be a constant stream of minor battles
    between each section of road-users. It'd suit me fine when everyone just
    kept to the laws, and that the laws were sufficiently clear and simple to
    understand so that they everyone could keep to them, including cyclists and
    drivers .. 😉

    Quoted message said:

    Much
    though the Conservatives love to try to make political capital from
    standing up against them now - this week they announced a review of
    cameras - it was they who introduced the wretched things to our
    streets in 1992.

    Applause ... about time someone actually pointed this out in public ..

    Quoted message said:

    Or take the countless 'cycling initiatives' which the government has
    launched over the past few years. They always follow the same pattern:
    a minister in helmet turns up at a school for a photocall with lots of
    grinning seven-year-olds. Then the council spends £500,000 on a
    feasibility study, which, following complaints from the bus-driving
    unions, ends up consisting of painting on the roads a few stretches of
    'cycle path' which last for a mere 20 yards before delivering the
    cyclist straight into a bollard or into the path of oncoming traffic.
    Parents wisely decide that they are not, after all, going to risk
    letting little Rupert or Samantha pedal to school, so they go and buy
    an even bigger and better SUV instead.

    Heheheh, cycling initiatives fuelling the trend in purchasing 4x4's and
    alienating people to cycling .. a strange, so therefore probably true, idea
    ... 😉

    Quoted message said:

    For a fraction of the money wasted on strategies, feasibility studies
    and half-hearted public works, the country could have a decent network
    of cycle paths entirely removed from road traffic.

    Thus driving road-users apart and decreasing the chance of common ground and
    understanding .. or at best maybe, tolerance.

    I don't have any answers, but then, neither does this article ..

    --
    Paul ...

    (8(|) ... Homer Rocks

  11. "[Not Responding]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Full text, below. The Spectator now requires registration so I have
    fewer qualms about violating their copyright.

    It was all going well until...

    Quoted message said:


    For a fraction of the money wasted on strategies, feasibility studies
    and half-hearted public works, the country could have a decent network
    of cycle paths entirely removed from road traffic. Just look at
    Holland, where you can happily pedal from one end of the country to
    the other on dedicated tracks. Why can?t we do the same here?

    Perhaps decent policing and a consequent improvement in considerate
    driving would make the existing roads safer and more pleasant for all.

  12. Ambrose Nankivell said:
    (dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers) said:

    By Harry Mount
    (Filed: 05/08/2004)

    Quoted message said:

    But the vast majority of the 5,000 speed cameras in the country are
    not at accident black spots and they don't catch people who are
    driving dangerously. Instead, they are precisely positioned to
    catch out generally safe, conscientious drivers.

    He knows that's not true and he still wrote it. Liar.

    Have you been to see every speed camera in the country and had the accident
    data for that stretch of road and looked at it? I'd be surprised if you had.
    AFAIK the Safety Camera Partnerships aren't keen to explain what an accident
    black spot is, and aren't keen on giving out accident figures either. And of
    course, the cameras only legally need to be within 1 kilometer of the
    blackspot. I wouldn't like to make a statement either way on the placement
    of cameras, but a lot of cameras I see are in the middle of overtaking
    straights rather than just before nasty bends / cambers / blind spots etc.

  13. Doki said:
    Ambrose Nankivell said:
    (dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers) said:

    By Harry Mount
    (Filed: 05/08/2004)

    Quoted message said:

    But the vast majority of the 5,000 speed cameras in the country are
    not at accident black spots and they don't catch people who are
    driving dangerously. Instead, they are precisely positioned to
    catch out generally safe, conscientious drivers.

    He knows that's not true and he still wrote it. Liar.

    Have you been to see every speed camera in the country and had the accident
    data for that stretch of road and looked at it? I'd be surprised if you had.
    AFAIK the Safety Camera Partnerships aren't keen to explain what an accident
    black spot is, and aren't keen on giving out accident figures either. And of
    course, the cameras only legally need to be within 1 kilometer of the
    blackspot. I wouldn't like to make a statement either way on the placement
    of cameras, but a lot of cameras I see are in the middle of overtaking
    straights rather than just before nasty bends / cambers / blind spots etc.

    Isn't that because the average driver is incapable of determining and
    adjusting his/her speed whilst also paying proper attention to the road
    around and what's coming up next?

    If the camera is sited just before such a place, it would (apparently)
    increase the danger, because they'd be focussed on their speedo and
    reducing their speed to just within the limit to avoid the flash, rather
    than judging the upcoming hazard...

    I'd point out that I don't think the above is a valid excuse, and it's
    brought about either by driver incompetence and they shouldn't be on the
    road if truly incapable to this extent, or it's just an argument used in
    the quest to get the speed cameras removed.

    --

    Velvet

  14. Doki said:
    Ambrose Nankivell said:
    (dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers) said:

    By Harry Mount
    (Filed: 05/08/2004)

    Quoted message said:

    But the vast majority of the 5,000 speed cameras in the country are
    not at accident black spots and they don't catch people who are
    driving dangerously. Instead, they are precisely positioned to
    catch out generally safe, conscientious drivers.

    He knows that's not true and he still wrote it. Liar.

    Have you been to see every speed camera in the country and had the accident
    data for that stretch of road and looked at it? I'd be surprised if you had.
    AFAIK the Safety Camera Partnerships aren't keen to explain what an accident
    black spot is, and aren't keen on giving out accident figures either. And of
    course, the cameras only legally need to be within 1 kilometer of the
    blackspot. I wouldn't like to make a statement either way on the placement
    of cameras, but a lot of cameras I see are in the middle of overtaking
    straights rather than just before nasty bends / cambers / blind spots etc.

    AIUI, it takes a several of serious negligents before a camera is
    permitted to be placed, but I've not read the regulations.

    I imagine overtaking straights aren't as safe to drive fast on as you
    may think, either.

    A

  15. Velvet said:

    If the camera is sited just before such a place, it would (apparently)
    increase the danger, because they'd be focussed on their speedo and
    reducing their speed to just within the limit to avoid the flash, rather
    than judging the upcoming hazard...

    I'd point out that I don't think the above is a valid excuse

    And it's also a classic case of "Doctor Doctor, it hurts when I do
    this!"; "then don't do that", with the "that" in question being
    routinely breaking speed limits so you have to slow down for cameras.

    It's not difficult. If you really don't want speeding tickets then
    /don't speed/. Duh.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  16. On 06 Aug 2004 14:19:39 +0100 someone who may be Ambrose Nankivell
    <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

    Quoted message said:

    AIUI, it takes a several of serious negligents before a camera is
    permitted to be placed, but I've not read the regulations.

    A figure of four deaths in some time period is often quoted.

    What is clear is that speed cameras are not the great infringement
    to "the right to ignore speed limits" which some claim they are.

    --
    David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
    I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
    prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

  17. Doki said:

    Have you been to see every speed camera in the country and had the accident
    data for that stretch of road and looked at it? I'd be surprised if you had.
    AFAIK the Safety Camera Partnerships aren't keen to explain what an accident
    black spot is, and aren't keen on giving out accident figures either.

    4 KSI over 3 years, in London. Your council can get the figures - ask
    a councillor if officers won't co-operate.

    Quoted message said:

    And of course, the cameras only legally need to be within 1 kilometer of the
    blackspot.

    Really? That is a big help. Maybe I can get one put in after all.

    Quoted message said:

    I wouldn't like to make a statement either way on the placement
    of cameras, but a lot of cameras I see are in the middle of overtaking
    straights rather than just before nasty bends / cambers / blind spots etc.

    And if they weren't, drivers would complain about them being hidden.

    The proper purpose of speed cameras is to make people drive slower,
    not to fine those that don't. A very low number of cameras could
    achieve this, if they were concealed and mobile.

    Colin McKenzie

    --
    The great advantage of not trusting statistics is that
    it leaves you free to believe the damned lies instead!

  18. David Hansen said:

    On 06 Aug 2004 14:19:39 +0100 someone who is indeed Ambrose Nankivell
    <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

    Quoted message said:

    AIUI, it takes a several of serious negligents before a camera is
    permitted to be placed, but I've not read the regulations.

    A figure of four deaths in some time period is often quoted.

    What is clear is that speed cameras are not the great infringement
    to "the right to ignore speed limits" which some claim they are.

    They are a great infringement of that right. It's merely that this
    right doesn't exist. I'm pointing this out not just out of pedantry
    but also because it highlights their diversion of the argument.

    A

  19. in message <[email hidden]>, Doki

    (') said:
    Ambrose Nankivell said:

    [email hidden] (dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers)

    Quoted message said:

    By Harry Mount
    (Filed: 05/08/2004)

    Quoted message said:

    But the vast majority of the 5,000 speed cameras in the country are
    not at accident black spots and they don't catch people who are
    driving dangerously. Instead, they are precisely positioned to
    catch out generally safe, conscientious drivers.

    He knows that's not true and he still wrote it. Liar.

    Have you been to see every speed camera in the country and had the
    accident data for that stretch of road and looked at it?

    What part of 'the vast majority' do you not understand?

    Quoted message said:

    I wouldn't like to
    make a statement either way on the placement of cameras, but a lot of
    cameras I see are in the middle of overtaking straights rather than
    just before nasty bends / cambers / blind spots etc.

    Almost all the accident blackspots around here _are_ on the 'overtaking
    straights'. Some idiot winds his BMW[1] up to 130mph to overtake a
    stream of slower moving traffic, and runs out of space at the end,
    because the straight wasn't as long or the stream as slow moving as he
    thought. And then head-on smash into whatever does come round the next
    corner.

    [1] No, of course it isn't _always_ a BMW.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    Due to financial constraints, the light at the end of the tunnel
    has been switched off.

  20. David Hansen said:

    On 06 Aug 2004 14:19:39 +0100 someone who may be Ambrose Nankivell
    <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

    Quoted message said:

    AIUI, it takes a several of serious negligents before a camera is
    permitted to be placed, but I've not read the regulations.

    A figure of four deaths in some time period is often quoted.

    Actually, speed cameras can be placed anywhere. There is a clause (and
    I forget the wording) that says the blood on the road measure need not
    be met if there are local circumstances or local pressure for a
    camera.

    Unfortunately, such is the fear of being perceived as warring on the
    motorist, cameras are virtually never put up until the requisit number
    of bodies have been carted to the morgue.

    Quoted message said:

    What is clear is that speed cameras are not the great infringement
    to "the right to ignore speed limits" which some claim they are.

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