Titanium vs. aluminium

On 12 Aug 2004 16:14:33 GMT, "Arthur Clune" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Rick Onanian <[email hidden]> wrote:
: Speaking of "cranks" and "triple", don't even consider a triple
: crank, especially if you live or ride near any hills. Get a bike
: with a 39-52 crank and a 13-22 cassette.

Don't you mean 42-55 and 11-19?

Nope. Never seen that. It's what I'd use if I only ever went
downhill, I suppose. Also, it's only 9s; in this context, nothing
less than 10s is acceptable.

Not ultra-tall gearing, just ultra-close-ratio. Of course, I can't
imagine what close-ratio-"I can only pedal within 2 rpm of my
optimum cadence"-people do when they get to hills and run out of
gears. Maybe their CF frame and ultra-low handlebars float up the
hill, and they don't bother trying for a new top speed down...
--
Rick Onanian

Corrosion/rust on titanium is quite unlikely.

"Derk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
| Rick Onanian wrote:
|
| > On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:39:39 +0200, Derk <[email hidden]>
| > wrote:
| > You _discarded_ a titanium frame because of bad welds? I wish I had
| > been in your neighborhood on trash day...
| Not just bad welds: it looks like the welds have rust all over them.
Several
| people advised me not to continue riding this frame. It was still under
| guearantee, so in my case "trashed" means "I stopped using it" (got
another
| frame on guarantee).
|
| Greets, Derk

Doug Huffman said:

Corrosion/rust on titanium is quite unlikely.

I know, but it shows some odd discolouring. I saw how this got worse over
the period of about 2 years. Something must be wrong here.

The frame was welded in the open air in Russia. I heard of more examples of
frames that had problems.

Anyway, Titanium is advertised as being a material that is ageless and will
be around forever. I paid good money for teh frame and I compared it to 2
other titanium frames I have here (Merckx and Colnago).These frames look
perfect, so why should I accept welds that look like they're rusty?

Greets, Derk

(Tectoron) said:

What should I choose, I have been offered a titanium frame (some years
old but never used) to the price of an (medium class) new aluminium
frame (ex. E Merxcks ALU Sprint).

One question :

Do you want to replace that frameset in 10 years or 40 ??

I used to ride a carbon/aluminum frameset. Then my seat lug cracked.
My next newer bike will be titanium.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

I, not a welder but dependent on good welds, am of the impression/opinion
that Ti must be welded in an inert atmosphere.

"Derk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
| Doug Huffman wrote:
|
| > Corrosion/rust on titanium is quite unlikely.
| I know, but it shows some odd discolouring. I saw how this got worse over
| the period of about 2 years. Something must be wrong here.
|
| The frame was welded in the open air in Russia. I heard of more examples
of
| frames that had problems.
|
| Anyway, Titanium is advertised as being a material that is ageless and
will
| be around forever. I paid good money for teh frame and I compared it to 2
| other titanium frames I have here (Merckx and Colnago).These frames look
| perfect, so why should I accept welds that look like they're rusty?
|
| Greets, Derk
|

Doug Huffman said:

I, not a welder but dependent on good welds, am of the impression/opinion
that Ti must be welded in an inert atmosphere.

Exactly, I read in TOUR Magazin that the Russians claim they have welded all
their spacecraft and subs this way, so according to them there's no problem
with welding with a flame surrounded by some gas other than oxygen.
Pilorget from France, on the other hand, I read, said even some strict
french norms about flooding an airtight welding space were not strict
enough. I guess he really knows what he's doing.

I really recommend inspecting welds before buying any cheapo titanium frame.
Or get yourself possibly into a lot of trouble with guarantee claims.

Greets, Derk

Please read about welding, especially Ti, in a 'welding' magazine. Cyclists
are poor engineers. I doubt even Russians can weld Ti with a 'flame'.

"Derk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
| Doug Huffman wrote:
|
| > I, not a welder but dependent on good welds, am of the
impression/opinion
| > that Ti must be welded in an inert atmosphere.
| Exactly, I read in TOUR Magazin that the Russians claim they have welded
all
| their spacecraft and subs this way, so according to them there's no
problem
| with welding with a flame surrounded by some gas other than oxygen.
| Pilorget from France, on the other hand, I read, said even some strict
| french norms about flooding an airtight welding space were not strict
| enough. I guess he really knows what he's doing.
|
| I really recommend inspecting welds before buying any cheapo titanium
frame.
| Or get yourself possibly into a lot of trouble with guarantee claims.
|
| Greets, Derk

(Donald Gillies) said:

(Tectoron) said:

What should I choose, I have been offered a titanium frame (some years
old but never used) to the price of an (medium class) new aluminium
frame (ex. E Merxcks ALU Sprint).

One question :

Do you want to replace that frameset in 10 years or 40 ??

Who the hell rides a single frame (on a regular basis) for 15 years?

Bill Lloyd said:

(Donald Gillies) said:

(Tectoron) said:

What should I choose, I have been offered a titanium frame (some years
old but never used) to the price of an (medium class) new aluminium
frame (ex. E Merxcks ALU Sprint).

One question :

Do you want to replace that frameset in 10 years or 40 ??

Who the hell rides a single frame (on a regular basis) for 15 years?

Dear Bill,

I think that Jobst Brandt has been riding the same frame on
a regular basis for at least that long.

Carl Fogel

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In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill Lloyd said:

(Donald Gillies) said:

(Tectoron) said:

What should I choose, I have been offered a titanium frame (some years
old but never used) to the price of an (medium class) new aluminium
frame (ex. E Merxcks ALU Sprint).

One question :

Do you want to replace that frameset in 10 years or 40 ??

Who the hell rides a single frame (on a regular basis) for 15 years?

_ Me. I've got a frame that's at least 30 years old and has over
40K miles on it that I ride at least once a week these days. It
got a ten year rest in the 90's when I ventured into MTB.

"A thing of beauty is a joy forever." - John Keats.

_ Booker C. Bense

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Bill Lloyd said:

Who the hell rides a single frame (on a regular basis) for 15 years?

Gosh, I have a garage full of bicycles (about 12 now) and the newest
road bike is 26 years old.

I did have a road bike that was 5 years old, but it was carbon and
titanium and now its toast. The grouppo is sitting unused in the
corner.

Buy a titanium bike. If you read the 1994 bridgestone catalogue, the
most ecologically sound bicycle purchasing decisions are to buy either
a steel frameset or as a second choice a titanium frameset. Aluminum
takes 1000 more power per ton to produce, and with a lifespan of only
10 years, an aluminum frameset is the MOST ECOLOGICALLY UNSOUND
bicycle you can possibly buy.

So the next time you "greeners" go out for a ride on your "aluminum
mountain bikes", i have just one word for you :

hypocrites!

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

Bill Lloyd said:

(Donald Gillies) said:

(Tectoron) said:

What should I choose, I have been offered a titanium frame (some years
old but never used) to the price of an (medium class) new aluminium
frame (ex. E Merxcks ALU Sprint).

One question :

Do you want to replace that frameset in 10 years or 40 ??

Who the hell rides a single frame (on a regular basis) for 15 years?

I'm going on 10 years with my current ride and don't see a whole lot of
reason to change.

Bill-<< Who the hell rides a single frame (on a regular basis) for 15 years?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

I did, a Ciocc. Still have it.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

"Donald Gillies" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

buy either
a steel frameset or as a second choice a titanium frameset. Aluminum
takes 1000 more power per ton to produce, and with a lifespan of only
10 years, an aluminum frameset is the MOST ECOLOGICALLY UNSOUND
bicycle you can possibly buy.

So the next time you "greeners" go out for a ride on your "aluminum
mountain bikes", i have just one word for you :

hypocrites!

Yeah, but aluminum is probably recycled more than any other common material
because of its high scrap value.

In article <cHrTc.7590$mD.4358@attbi_s02>,

Peter Cole said:

"Donald Gillies" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

buy either
a steel frameset or as a second choice a titanium frameset. Aluminum
takes 1000 more power per ton to produce, and with a lifespan of only
10 years, an aluminum frameset is the MOST ECOLOGICALLY UNSOUND
bicycle you can possibly buy.

So the next time you "greeners" go out for a ride on your "aluminum
mountain bikes", i have just one word for you :

hypocrites!

Yeah, but aluminum is probably recycled more than any other common material
because of its high scrap value.

And the power it takes isn't as ecologically unsound as you might think.
British Columbia, for example, is a major refiner of aluminum ore
(bauxite) even though we don't produce much of it. Almost all of the
power for this refining in BC comes from hydroelectric power, and the
abundance of such power is why raw ore gets shipped from where it is
extracted to Canada.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com
Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Qui si parla Campagnolo ) said:

Bill-<< Who the hell rides a single frame (on a regular basis) for 15 years?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

I did, a Ciocc. Still have it.

My Serotta is only at 13 years, but I pretty much guarantee I'll be
riding it regularly over the next two years.

I rode a Trek 400 regularly for 16 or so years as a commuter until I
retired it to my parents' house last year.

Baird

Bill Lloyd said:

(Donald Gillies) said:

Do you want to replace that frameset in 10 years or 40 ??

Who the hell rides a single frame (on a regular basis) for 15 years?

Ask me again in circa 2006.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!

Quoted message said:

Who the hell rides a single frame (on a regular basis) for 15 years?

I am going on 16 years with one of mine.
B

(remove clothes to reply)

Bill Lloyd said:

Who the hell rides a single frame (on a regular basis) for 15
years?

A lot of people. If it's a good fit there's no need to change
besides a crash or the preference of the rider to get something new.

--
MfG/Best regards
helmut springer

Ryan Cousineau said:

Quoted message said:

And the power it takes isn't as ecologically unsound as you might think.
British Columbia, for example, is a major refiner of aluminum ore
(bauxite) even though we don't produce much of it. Almost all of the
power for this refining in BC comes from hydroelectric power, and the
abundance of such power is why raw ore gets shipped from where it is
extracted to Canada.

Its ignorant to think that hydroelectric power is "clean power". The
salmon stocks on the Columbia river basin, with its 8 hydropower
plants, are expected to go extinct in the next 20 years. Why?
Hydropower and fish ladders do not work. The columbia used to have
the largest fish runs in the world.

Where are the salmon still thriving ?? On BC's Fraser river, just 200
mi north of the Columbia, which has had a moratorium on hydropower
development since the beginning of the century.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA