All time favorite seat? [LONG}

The Rotator seats use bungi cord on seat bottoms whereas Lightning uses regular cord so the seat
bottoms are not "bouncy" . I have owned both a P-38 and a Stealth with the cord fastened seats and
they are very firm ,the P-38 I now have uses Zip ties which don't give at all. I would agree with
the O.E. seat being a good one but,unlike the Lightning seat, the seat back is lower and not curved.
So it would be a close second to the Lightning seat for me. Of course I haven't owned 45 bents yet,
but enough to know what I like.

"bentbiker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I get this asked a lot of me by novices etc. [after owning 45 bents in the last 15 years] here's
how i'd rank them, just in: 1. Organic Engines full mesh: nice lumbar, nice back height, and
curled down seat ends to facilitate getting my legs down 2. Turner. Milt's hard shell is the
only hardshell i didn't get recumbent but on, was fairly ventilated, I wish it was slightly
wider in the shoulders, but I compensated for this with "pipe foam" wrapped around the seat back
and then the cover put over that. 3. Bachetta, nicer RANS type seat, it beats out RANS due to
the forward tip of the top back rails, helps craddle the shoulders. 4. RANS, never had a issue
with them if I tip them to 45 degrees, I love the simplicity of the sliding rail. 5. Burley.
Nice, especially with 1" piece of foam on top of the Corbin seat base with a RANS cover, no
slipping. Seat back needs to be higher though. CLOSE, but not quite there for me: 1.
Rotator/Lightning, too bouncy, probably could have been rectified though 2. Vision. No lumbar
support, and the seat horn, while not uncomfortable, is always noticeable in an area i'd rather
not have notice while ride:rolleyes .

Ben Fox said:

The Rotator seats use bungi cord on seat bottoms whereas Lightning uses regular cord so the seat
bottoms are not "bouncy" . I have owned both a P-38 and a Stealth with the cord fastened seats and
they are very firm ,the P-38 I now have uses Zip ties which don't give at all. I would agree with
the O.E. seat being a good one but,unlike the Lightning seat, the seat back is lower and not
curved. So it would be a close second to the Lightning seat for me. Of course I haven't owned 45
bents yet, but enough to know what I like.

The Earth Cycles seat has a base similar to the Lightning seat (but slightly narrower), and a pad
cover made from natural materials [1]. It is also lighter and has a better shaped lumbar curve to
the back than the Lightning seat.

[1] Industrial hemp to be exact. Why it is illegal to grow this in the US I do not understand [2],
especially since George Washington was a proponent of its use and the original copy of the US
Constitution was written on industrial hemp paper. It also does not require the use of sulpheric
acid in paper production.
[2] Unless it is due to the political influence of the paper companies who have a vested interest in
continuing to make products from wood.

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[2] Unless it is due to the political influence of the paper companies who have a vested interest
in continuing to make products from wood.

There's always a conspiracy, isn't there, Tom?

bentbiker <[email hidden]> wrote in news:3EB4677E.50204 @accesstoledo.com:

Quoted message said:

I get this asked a lot of me by novices etc. [after owning 45 bents in the last 15 years] here's
how i'd rank them, just in: 1. Organic Engines full mesh: nice lumbar, nice back height, and
curled down seat ends to facilitate getting my legs down 2. Turner. Milt's hard shell is the
only hardshell i didn't get recumbent but on, was fairly ventilated, I wish it was slightly
wider in the shoulders, but I compensated for this with "pipe foam" wrapped around the seat back
and then the cover put over that. 3. Bachetta, nicer RANS type seat, it beats out RANS due to
the forward tip of the top back rails, helps craddle the shoulders. 4. RANS, never had a issue
with them if I tip them to 45 degrees, I love the simplicity of the sliding rail. 5. Burley.
Nice, especially with 1" piece of foam on top of the Corbin seat base with a RANS cover, no
slipping. Seat back needs to be higher though. CLOSE, but not quite there for me: 1.
Rotator/Lightning, too bouncy, probably could have been rectified though 2. Vision. No lumbar
support, and the seat horn, while not uncomfortable, is always noticeable in an area i'd rather
not have notice while ride:rolleyes .

Links to images? I'm still working out seat design on my homebuilt, this is really the last design
point I have to complete. After that it's just assembly and then riding. 🙂

-Bill

bentbiker <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

....Vision. No lumbar support, and the seat horn, while not uncomfortable, is always noticeable in
an area i'd rather not have notice while ride....

Others have complained about the seat horn too, most notably Robert Bryant in the pages of RCN. It
was never a problem for me but I do think a sure cure is just to layer in some more high quailty
foam in the seat base. The Vision seat also needs to be laid back some. You should not feel the seat
horn at all if you do these two things. Lumbar support is a very tricky proposition. It is far
better not to have any lumbar support at all than to have it hitting you in your back all wrong.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

organicengines.comindex.htmOpen ↗ for 150.00 it's a great value in a full mesh,
plus Dan's a good guy to deal with

Bill Hamilton said:

bentbiker <[email hidden]> wrote in news:3EB4677E.50204 @accesstoledo.com:

Quoted message said:

I get this asked a lot of me by novices etc. [after owning 45 bents in the last 15 years] here's
how i'd rank them, just in: 1. Organic Engines full mesh: nice lumbar, nice back height, and
curled down seat ends to facilitate getting my legs down 2. Turner. Milt's hard shell is the
only hardshell i didn't get recumbent but on, was fairly ventilated, I wish it was slightly
wider in the shoulders, but I compensated for this with "pipe foam" wrapped around the seat back
and then the cover put over that. 3. Bachetta, nicer RANS type seat, it beats out RANS due to
the forward tip of the top back rails, helps craddle the shoulders. 4. RANS, never had a issue
with them if I tip them to 45 degrees, I love the simplicity of the sliding rail. 5. Burley.
Nice, especially with 1" piece of foam on top of the Corbin seat base with a RANS cover, no
slipping. Seat back needs to be higher though. CLOSE, but not quite there for me: 1.
Rotator/Lightning, too bouncy, probably could have been rectified though 2. Vision. No lumbar
support, and the seat horn, while not uncomfortable, is always noticeable in an area i'd rather
not have notice while ride:rolleyes .

Links to images? I'm still working out seat design on my homebuilt, this is really the last design
point I have to complete. After that it's just assembly and then riding. 🙂

-Bill

Ryan. Bike touring I've spent up to 40 hours week on the Ryan seat in complete comfort with never a
hint of RB. Only my legs and feet determined how far I could ride. For long distance all day comfort
a pocket type sling mesh seat is where my butt wants to be.

For short distances it dosen't seem to matter that much - every one I've tried seemed relatively
comfortable, even the RB inducing Cobra.

skip

Bentbiker, Please seek professional help. There are excellent couples counselors who can help you
overcome your fear of commitment.

bentbiker <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I get this asked a lot of me by novices etc. [after owning 45 bents in the last 15 years]

all were not for me [many were though!] i've turned this into a side business/hobby, something to
keep the idle mind occupied.

Don said:

Bentbiker, Please seek professional help. There are excellent couples counselors who can help you
overcome your fear of commitment.

bentbiker <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I get this asked a lot of me by novices etc. [after owning 45 bents in the last 15 years]

I'd like to second Ed Dolan's comments. In fact, I don't think of it so much as a "horn" as just a
place to support the leading edge of the seat nylon and foam. For me, the Vision seat gives just the
right amount of support to my darierre, and the so-called "seat horn" allows the bottom of the seat
to be shorter on the outer edges, facilitating easy foot placement on the road at stoplights without
forcing me to scoot forward in the seat. I've ridden 60+ miles at a stretch without any butt
discomfort to speak of. What usually makes me take a break is when legs start cramping or bladder
starts complaining--my backside, however, has been one of the more agreeable body parts on long
rides. Perhaps the Vision you tried was a pre-2000 model, when the redesigned seat fabric came out.

As for lumbar support, I am aware of some people who use lumbar pads, but I haven't found this
necessary at all. And what a tragedy it would be if the seat came with a lumbar curve that was
incorrect for my spine!

Bill Anton 2001 Vision R-40 SWB OSS Lubbock, TX

[email hidden] (Edward Dolan) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

bentbiker <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

....Vision. No lumbar support, and the seat horn, while not uncomfortable, is always noticeable
in an area i'd rather not have notice while ride....

Others have complained about the seat horn too, most notably Robert Bryant in the pages of RCN.
It was never a problem for me but I do think a sure cure is just to layer in some more high
quailty foam in the seat base. The Vision seat also needs to be laid back some. You should not
feel the seat horn at all if you do these two things. Lumbar support is a very tricky
proposition. It is far better not to have any lumbar support at all than to have it hitting you
in your back all wrong.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

the seat never caused me discomfort, I just "noticed" the horn all the times i've ridden vision
seats, post and pr3 2000 models. A slight curve in the general lumbar area on the seat back, would
assist in fine tuning the mesh for some additional lumbar support.

Bill Anton said:

I'd like to second Ed Dolan's comments. In fact, I don't think of it so much as a "horn" as just a
place to support the leading edge of the seat nylon and foam. For me, the Vision seat gives just
the right amount of support to my darierre, and the so-called "seat horn" allows the bottom of the
seat to be shorter on the outer edges, facilitating easy foot placement on the road at stoplights
without forcing me to scoot forward in the seat. I've ridden 60+ miles at a stretch without any
butt discomfort to speak of. What usually makes me take a break is when legs start cramping or
bladder starts complaining--my backside, however, has been one of the more agreeable body parts on
long rides. Perhaps the Vision you tried was a pre-2000 model, when the redesigned seat fabric
came out.

As for lumbar support, I am aware of some people who use lumbar pads, but I haven't found this
necessary at all. And what a tragedy it would be if the seat came with a lumbar curve that was
incorrect for my spine!

Bill Anton 2001 Vision R-40 SWB OSS Lubbock, TX

[email hidden] (Edward Dolan) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

bentbiker <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

....Vision. No lumbar support, and the seat horn, while not uncomfortable, is always noticeable
in an area i'd rather not have notice while ride....

Others have complained about the seat horn too, most notably Robert Bryant in the pages of RCN.
It was never a problem for me but I do think a sure cure is just to layer in some more high
quailty foam in the seat base. The Vision seat also needs to be laid back some. You should not
feel the seat horn at all if you do these two things. Lumbar support is a very tricky
proposition. It is far better not to have any lumbar support at all than to have it hitting you
in your back all wrong.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Can someone refer me to a close-up picture of the vision seat, with the "so called horn"???

It does seem that this design would eliminate the down side of the full mesh seat.

The mesh sling bottom does eliminate recumbo butt for me, but the front sides complicate pedaling
efficiency for me. And start up and stopping.

--
Miles of Smiles,

Tom Blum Winter Haven, Florida (remove "nospam" to reply) Homebuilts: SWB Tour Easy Clone Speed
Machine Clone

www.gate.net/~teblum

bentbiker <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I get this asked a lot of me by novices etc. [after owning 45 bents in the last 15 years] here's
how i'd rank them, just in: 1. Organic Engines full mesh: nice lumbar, nice back height, and
curled down seat ends to facilitate getting my legs down [...]

Yes, but I am guessing not so much that this seat would work well with a high seat position and/or a
low BB. What did you use it on?

In the olden days, US recumbents often had full sling seats, but seat heights crept up, and most
went to padded bases which were easy to make in a triangular shape, which made it easier to get your
feet down.

johnriley1 (at) rogers.com

my problem with seat "horns" is a full mesh seat is comfortable and simplistic. There is a reason
that they use a foam pad on top of the mesh, it's to help off set the "horn" issue. I do understand
why they use the horn, it, like many things on recumbents are a trade off or compromise, by using
the horn, they can make the seat base shorter, and facilitate getting more people to get their feet
down with shorter legs etc. Many Full mesh seats [like haluzak] have no horn, but have an inherently
higher seat height.

Tom Blum said:

Can someone refer me to a close-up picture of the vision seat, with the "so called horn"???

It does seem that this design would eliminate the down side of the full mesh seat.

The mesh sling bottom does eliminate recumbo butt for me, but the front sides complicate pedaling
efficiency for me. And start up and stopping.

--
Miles of Smiles,

Tom Blum Winter Haven, Florida (remove "nospam" to reply) Homebuilts: SWB Tour Easy Clone Speed
Machine Clone

www.gate.net/~teblum

bentbiker said:

my problem with seat "horns" is a full mesh seat is comfortable and simplistic. There is a reason
that they use a foam pad on top of the mesh, it's to help off set the "horn" issue. I do
understand why they use the horn, it, like many things on recumbents are a trade off or
compromise, by using the horn, they can make the seat base shorter, and facilitate getting more
people to get their feet down with shorter legs etc. Many Full mesh seats [like haluzak] have no
horn, but have an inherently higher seat height.

My Sunset has a full sling mesh seat and I have no problem getting my feet down to the ground.
Maybe the real problem with the other bikes using full sling mesh seats is that their wheels are
too large. 😉

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

bentbiker <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

my problem with seat "horns" is a full mesh seat is comfortable and simplistic. There is a reason
that they use a foam pad on top of the mesh, it's to help off set the "horn" issue. I do
understand why they use the horn, it, like many things on recumbents are a trade off or
compromise, by using the horn, they can make the seat base shorter, and facilitate getting more
people to get their feet down with shorter legs etc. Many Full mesh seats [like haluzak] have no
horn, but have an inherently higher seat height.

The number one problem with the full mesh seat is that it is just not comfortable for many folks. I
start getting recumbent butt within a half hour on any mesh seat. In fact, horn or no horn, I have
to use a foam pad if I am going to be comfortable on a mesh seat. Yet I do know that others find the
mesh seat to be quite comfortable.

The horn on the Vision seat is a master stroke. It would not be nearly so comfortable without it,
but of course the foam pad is an integral part of the seat design. The horn creates a sling or cup
for your bottom that combined with the foam pad just feels perfect. This design also makes it
possible to get your legs down the sides of the seat much easier than would otherwise be the case,
but that is a side benefit. The horn is there because it increases comfort.

I have ridden most recumbents with all their various style seats and I can say that, at least for
myself, no other seat can even approach the Vision seat in comfort, no, not even the fabled RANS
seat which is also very good. I suspect that some who do not find the Vision seat to be all that
comfortable are probably riding it sitting in a too upright position. The Vision seat needs to be
laid back, but that is the best way to ride the Vision anyway because of the high BB. If you want
to ride in a more upright position, then you would get a recumbent with a lower BB which mandates
that position. The P-38 gets it all wrong in my estimation by combining an upright riding position
with a high BB.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Personally, I love my seat that is a hybrid. No, not hybrid bike but a Buely seat back and a RANS seat base hybrid.

I have wanted to try a hardsheel, type though on something other than past test rides.

Derek

Some riders don't mind seat horns, others do. There have been some fantastic seats with mesh bases
and no seat horns. Among them are the Counterpoint Presto, Haluzak (similar to Presto with seat mesh
made by the same company) and ICE trike seats (mesh with reticulated foam underneath).

The Lightfoot seat has a seat horn, but I could barely detect it. Perhaps because the seat is larger
than a Visions.

Bob Bryant recumbentcyclistnews.comrecumbentcyclistnews.comOpen ↗

Vision seat. No problems with the seat horn, but the seat should be laid back. I find vision much
more comfortable than the seat on my Rocket.

Brad