Bent axles

"Keith Willoughby" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My options, as I see them

1) Buy a wheel with a freehub, rather than a freewheel, and hope that
the reduced leverage on the axle will stop it bending. Pro: I can
sill cycle. Con: it might not work, and it's going to cost money. If
I'm going to start spending serious money, I'd rather save up and buy
a new bike.

We've not bent an axle on our tandem since going to a freehub. I'd go for
that solution - they are much better, especially because the reason you have
a freewheel wheel is because it's cheap so unlikely to be great quality.

I'd go for something like a deore hub with 36 spokes. Get the wheel properly
built - ie don't just buy a cheap readymade wheel. If money is an object,
you can do this yourself.

If your current freewheel is 7 speed, you can put a 7 speed cassette on an
8/9 speed hub with the addition of a suitable spacer, which would mean no
need to change shifters/rear mech/chain.

What's your definition of serious money?

cheers,
clive

Clive George said:

"Keith Willoughby" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My options, as I see them

1) Buy a wheel with a freehub, rather than a freewheel, and hope that
the reduced leverage on the axle will stop it bending. Pro: I can
sill cycle. Con: it might not work, and it's going to cost money. If
I'm going to start spending serious money, I'd rather save up and buy
a new bike.

We've not bent an axle on our tandem since going to a freehub. I'd go for
that solution - they are much better, especially because the reason you have
a freewheel wheel is because it's cheap so unlikely to be great quality.

OK, so you reckon that the difference in leverage is likely to be enough
to really make the difference?

Quoted message said:

I'd go for something like a deore hub with 36 spokes. Get the wheel properly
built - ie don't just buy a cheap readymade wheel. If money is an object,
you can do this yourself.

Hah. I guess I could try. If I cocked it up, could I still get someone
competent to make it with the same spokes?

Quoted message said:

If your current freewheel is 7 speed,

It is.

Quoted message said:

you can put a 7 speed cassette on an 8/9 speed hub with the addition
of a suitable spacer, which would mean no need to change shifters/rear
mech/chain.

What's your definition of serious money?

Well, the bike is only a cheapish Giant MTB. I wouldn't mind replacing
it at some point, either with, say, the EBC hybrid, or even something
with drop handles. If building a new wheel is 70 quid, as a quick shufti
on Wiggle suggests, then I think I'd rather lose some weight and save up
a few hundred extra for a new bike. It's not as if a front-sus MTB is
ideal for what I do anyway.

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
Shoulders back, lovely boy

in message <[email hidden]>, Keith Willoughby

(') said:

You might remember me bending an axle a while back. Well, I replaced
it, then bent another one. More through hope than judgement, I
replaced it, but I just went to try to true the wheel, and noticed
it's bent again. It hasn't been used for anything more than the odd
bit of utility cycling on this latest one.

Any further suggestions? I know there's at least one other 20-stoner
on the group - do you just use stronger axles?

Are you using axles with quick release skewers? If so, solid axles might
be stronger. If you're riding a mountain bike type bike (including a
hybrid with 26" wheels) you might consider getting downhill hubs.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; not so much a refugee from reality, more a bogus
;; asylum seeker

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Keith Willoughby

(') said:

You might remember me bending an axle a while back. Well, I replaced
it, then bent another one. More through hope than judgement, I
replaced it, but I just went to try to true the wheel, and noticed
it's bent again. It hasn't been used for anything more than the odd
bit of utility cycling on this latest one.

Any further suggestions? I know there's at least one other 20-stoner
on the group - do you just use stronger axles?

Are you using axles with quick release skewers?

Yeah.

Quoted message said:

If so, solid axles might be stronger.

Hmm. Can I just stick a solid axle through the current hub? That might
be doable.

Quoted message said:

If you're riding a mountain bike type bike (including a hybrid with
26" wheels) you might consider getting downhill hubs.

I think that anything involving having a new wheel made up is just going
to be a matter of good money after bad (see my other post) when I could
use the money towards a nicer bike.

Cheers.

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
"Living in a jungle, living in a tent. Better than a prefab - no rent."

Keith Willoughby said:

1) Buy a wheel with a freehub, rather than a freewheel, and hope that
the reduced leverage on the axle will stop it bending.

It will indeed be stronger.

Quoted message said:

Con: it might not work

If you mean it might not be compatible, solutions can be worked out. I
suppose there is still a risk of it failing but that's got to be worth
taking.

Quoted message said:

and it's going to cost money.
If I'm going to start spending serious money, I'd rather save up
and buy a new bike.

Reasonable logic for many bike parts but not wheels because good wheels
can very easily be transfered to future bikes as well. If you get a
really good modern handbuilt rear wheel now, it'll probably be much better
than whatever is supplied on your next bike (if you do ever buy another
complete bike).

Quoted message said:

2) Stop cycling until I'm a more reasonable weight. Take up walking as
exercise. Take diet seriously.

Don't stop cycling!!!

Quoted message said:

I'm tending towards number two. For one, it's cheaper. For two,
perversely, the lack of cycling might actually make me take the diet
part more seriously, because I've really enjoyed it.

The amount of cakes biscuits I eat, I'd be 30 stone if I didn't cycle at
all (I'm 11ish). Exercise is more important that diet, and cycling is one
of the very best forms of it.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

Keith Willoughby said:

1) Buy a wheel with a freehub, rather than a freewheel, and hope that
the reduced leverage on the axle will stop it bending.

It will indeed be stronger.

Quoted message said:

Con: it might not work

If you mean it might not be compatible, solutions can be worked out. I
suppose there is still a risk of it failing but that's got to be worth
taking.

The latter. I've already gone through three axles, and it's getting a
little wearing 🙂 I could really do without spending money if it failed,
too.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and it's going to cost money.
If I'm going to start spending serious money, I'd rather save up
and buy a new bike.

Reasonable logic for many bike parts but not wheels because good wheels
can very easily be transfered to future bikes as well. If you get a
really good modern handbuilt rear wheel now, it'll probably be much better
than whatever is supplied on your next bike (if you do ever buy another
complete bike).

On the other hand, I'd really like a road bike at some point, but I'd be
replacing a 26" wheel on the current MTB. I don't see myself ever buying
a new MTB (real MTBing doesn't appeal to me at all)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2) Stop cycling until I'm a more reasonable weight. Take up walking as
exercise. Take diet seriously.

Don't stop cycling!!!

:-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm tending towards number two. For one, it's cheaper. For two,
perversely, the lack of cycling might actually make me take the diet
part more seriously, because I've really enjoyed it.

The amount of cakes biscuits I eat, I'd be 30 stone if I didn't cycle at
all (I'm 11ish). Exercise is more important that diet, and cycling is one
of the very best forms of it.

I agree, but walking would also be good exercise, and as I say, not
being able to cycle until I lose weight might actually be better
motivation for doing so, stupidly enough.

(btw, I know it sounds like I'm poo-poohing everyone's suggestions, but
I'm really only playing devil's advocate until I know what the best
options are)

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
"Not waving, but drowning."

Keith Willoughby said:

Pete Biggs said:

Reasonable logic for many bike parts but not wheels because good
wheels can very easily be transfered to future bikes as well. If
you get a really good modern handbuilt rear wheel now, it'll
probably be much better than whatever is supplied on your next bike
(if you do ever buy another complete bike).

On the other hand, I'd really like a road bike at some point, but I'd
be replacing a 26" wheel on the current MTB. I don't see myself ever
buying a new MTB (real MTBing doesn't appeal to me at all)

Nothing wrong with a "road" MTB if it fits you in all other respects. Many
friends of mine use them; slick tyres, mudguards, rack, etc, I've known
people change the bars to drops (!). This includes friends who have road
bikes with 700c wheels available as alternatives. Whilst your weight stays
high, you may be better off on 26in wheels anyway (tend to be stronger).

I'd look at getting the strongest hub you can into either the current wheel
(if the rim is OK and reasonable quality) or into a new rim. Not going to
be the cheapest solution. It might be worth talking to a decent bike shop
about the specification (eg. one which can build wheels, perhaps bits used
in tandem wheels, etc).

- Nigel

--
NC - Webmaster for http://www.2mm.org.uk/
Replies to newsgroup postings to the newsgroup please.

x-no-archive: yes

Keith Willoughby said:

Clive George wrote:

Well, the bike is only a cheapish Giant MTB. I wouldn't mind replacing
it at some point, either with, say, the EBC hybrid, or even something
with drop handles. If building a new wheel is 70 quid, as a quick shufti
on Wiggle suggests, then I think I'd rather lose some weight and save up
a few hundred extra for a new bike. It's not as if a front-sus MTB is
ideal for what I do anyway.

You should be able to find a good wheel for around 50 pounds
http://www.evanscycles.com/product.jsp?style=11242
http://www.cyclestore.co.uk/itemviewer.asp?ID=44&type=wheels

Peter

"Keith Willoughby" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clive George said:

"Keith Willoughby" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My options, as I see them

1) Buy a wheel with a freehub, rather than a freewheel, and hope that
the reduced leverage on the axle will stop it bending. Pro: I can
sill cycle. Con: it might not work, and it's going to cost money. If
I'm going to start spending serious money, I'd rather save up and buy
a new bike.

We've not bent an axle on our tandem since going to a freehub. I'd go for
that solution - they are much better, especially because the reason you have
a freewheel wheel is because it's cheap so unlikely to be great quality.

OK, so you reckon that the difference in leverage is likely to be enough
to really make the difference?

Yes, it really does make a difference, all else being equal. You are reducing
the bending moment about the right hand bearing by a factor of from 2 to 4
depending on the wheel.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd go for something like a deore hub with 36 spokes. Get the wheel properly
built - ie don't just buy a cheap readymade wheel. If money is an object,
you can do this yourself.

If money is an object, someone like Merlin can build it for you for less than
you can get the components for.

Quoted message said:

Hah. I guess I could try. If I cocked it up, could I still get someone
competent to make it with the same spokes?

Trouble is that a [censored] can ruin the rim.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If your current freewheel is 7 speed,

It is.

Quoted message said:

you can put a 7 speed cassette on an 8/9 speed hub with the addition
of a suitable spacer, which would mean no need to change shifters/rear
mech/chain.

But this would be weaker (greater bending moment) than having a proper 7-speed
hub.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What's your definition of serious money?

Well, the bike is only a cheapish Giant MTB. I wouldn't mind replacing
it at some point, either with, say, the EBC hybrid, or even something
with drop handles. If building a new wheel is 70 quid, as a quick shufti
on Wiggle suggests, then I think I'd rather lose some weight and save up
a few hundred extra for a new bike. It's not as if a front-sus MTB is
ideal for what I do anyway.

Suggestions:

First, #2 is already part of your programme, so stick with it.

Second, you can adopt a staged approach to spending money. Simon suggested a
solid axle. Since they cost about £3.99 at your LBS complete with cones,
spacers, and tracknuts, why not try one first? If that still bends (and it may
last long enough to give you time to lose some more weight) then try finding a
7-speed wheel cheap on ebay and simply retension it yourself.

The thing you have to remember is that cycling very rarely has only extreme
solutions.
--
"But, I really think that hate is the dominant factor here."
- Marc Goodman in alt.religion.kibology

Peter Simons said:

Keith Willoughby said:

Clive George wrote:

Well, the bike is only a cheapish Giant MTB. I wouldn't mind replacing
it at some point, either with, say, the EBC hybrid, or even something
with drop handles. If building a new wheel is 70 quid, as a quick shufti
on Wiggle suggests, then I think I'd rather lose some weight and save up
a few hundred extra for a new bike. It's not as if a front-sus MTB is
ideal for what I do anyway.

You should be able to find a good wheel for around 50 pounds
http://www.evanscycles.com/product.jsp?style=11242
http://www.cyclestore.co.uk/itemviewer.asp?ID=44&type=wheels

Plus another 15-20 quid for a 7-speed cassette?

Hmm. Dunno. A third of the price of a new EBC hybrid (I'd have to lose
weight to ride it, of course)

Decisions, decisions.

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
"No problem is so formidable that you can't walk away from it"
- Charles Schultz

NC said:

Keith Willoughby said:

Pete Biggs said:

Reasonable logic for many bike parts but not wheels because good
wheels can very easily be transfered to future bikes as well. If
you get a really good modern handbuilt rear wheel now, it'll
probably be much better than whatever is supplied on your next bike
(if you do ever buy another complete bike).

On the other hand, I'd really like a road bike at some point, but I'd
be replacing a 26" wheel on the current MTB. I don't see myself ever
buying a new MTB (real MTBing doesn't appeal to me at all)

Nothing wrong with a "road" MTB if it fits you in all other respects. Many
friends of mine use them; slick tyres, mudguards, rack, etc,

I've got slicks and a rack on mine. It's just that I wouldn't see myself
buying a new one (I got this current one for nowt).

Quoted message said:

I've known people change the bars to drops (!). This includes friends
who have road bikes with 700c wheels available as alternatives.
Whilst your weight stays high, you may be better off on 26in wheels
anyway (tend to be stronger).

Aye, buying a new bike is predicated on losing 5 or 6 stone
anyway. Doable in time for next summer.

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
Turning rebellion into money

Mark South said:

Second, you can adopt a staged approach to spending money. Simon suggested a
solid axle. Since they cost about £3.99 at your LBS complete with cones,
spacers, and tracknuts, why not try one first?

OK, if I can just do this on the current hub, it's probably by miles
the best answer for the time being. I'm getting the hang of changing the
axle, too. First time took me a couple of hours; last time took me about
10 minutes 🙂

Quoted message said:

If that still bends (and it may last long enough to give you time to
lose some more weight) then try finding a 7-speed wheel cheap on ebay
and simply retension it yourself.

Aye.

Cheers all.

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
Mae bys Mari-Ann wedi brifo

Keith Willoughby said:

The latter. I've already gone through three axles, and it's getting a
little wearing 🙂 I could really do without spending money if it
failed, too.

I think that's unlikely.

/snip

Quoted message said:

On the other hand, I'd really like a road bike at some point, but I'd
be replacing a 26" wheel on the current MTB. I don't see myself ever
buying a new MTB (real MTBing doesn't appeal to me at all)

Fair point, except it's always useful to have a more rugged and practical
bike as well -- for bad-weather use, shopping trips, etc. Maybe you could
keep the old clunker going for a few years yet, with a decent wheel.

~PB

in message <[email hidden]>, Keith Willoughby

(') said:

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Keith Willoughby

(') said:

Any further suggestions? I know there's at least one other 20-stoner
on the group - do you just use stronger axles?

Are you using axles with quick release skewers?

Yeah.

Quoted message said:

If so, solid axles might be stronger.

Hmm. Can I just stick a solid axle through the current hub? That might
be doable.

In principle, yes. In practice, it does depend a little on your
bearings. Talk to your LBS.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Our modern industrial economy takes a mountain covered with trees,
;; lakes, running streams and transforms it into a mountain of junk,
;; garbage, slime pits, and debris. -- Edward Abbey

Keith Willoughby said:

You might remember me bending an axle a while back. Well, I replaced it,
then bent another one. More through hope than judgement, I replaced it,
but I just went to try to true the wheel, and noticed it's bent
again. It hasn't been used for anything more than the odd bit of utility
cycling on this latest one.

Now, I know why this is happening. I'm 20+ stone. Losing that weight
would obviously cure the problem, and one of the reasons for taking up
cycling was the exercise (although I never really cycled quite enough
to do so, and never took the diet part seriously enough)

My options, as I see them

1) Buy a wheel with a freehub, rather than a freewheel, and hope that
the reduced leverage on the axle will stop it bending. Pro: I can
sill cycle. Con: it might not work, and it's going to cost money. If
I'm going to start spending serious money, I'd rather save up and buy
a new bike.

2) Stop cycling until I'm a more reasonable weight. Take up walking as
exercise. Take diet seriously.

(1) should work. A loaded touring bike can be more than 20st if you're
camping.

Peter Simons said:

You should be able to find a good wheel for around 50 pounds
http://www.evanscycles.com/product.jsp?style=11242
http://www.cyclestore.co.uk/itemviewer.asp?ID=44&type=wheels

They're pairs, aren't they? And 32-spoke plain gauge :-(

Better:
http://www.merlincycles.co.uk/acatalog/Custom_Wheels.html

(Perhaps they would do a 36 if asked)

~PB

Keith Willoughby said:

Clive George said:

"Keith Willoughby" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My options, as I see them

1) Buy a wheel with a freehub, rather than a freewheel, and hope that
the reduced leverage on the axle will stop it bending. Pro: I can
sill cycle. Con: it might not work, and it's going to cost money. If
I'm going to start spending serious money, I'd rather save up and buy
a new bike.

We've not bent an axle on our tandem since going to a freehub. I'd go for
that solution - they are much better, especially because the
reason you have

Indeed, I've bent axles with freewheels, and I'm only 60kg (9 and a
half stone in old money).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What's your definition of serious money?

Well, the bike is only a cheapish Giant MTB. I wouldn't mind replacing
it at some point, either with, say, the EBC hybrid, or even something
with drop handles. If building a new wheel is 70 quid, as a quick shufti
on Wiggle suggests, then I think I'd rather lose some weight and save up
a few hundred extra for a new bike. It's not as if a front-sus MTB is
ideal for what I do anyway.

I'd imagine it could be less. Edinburgh Bicycle's basic one for 26.95
is well up to it. (Click first URL, then second URL, and you may
actually see it)

<url:http://www.edinburgh-bicycle.co.uk/>
<url:http://www.edinburgh-bicycle.co.uk/catalogue/detail.cfm?ID=17910>

A

Ambrose Nankivell said:

I'd imagine it could be less. Edinburgh Bicycle's basic one for 26.95
is well up to it.

29.50 for a rear one.

Quoted message said:

(Click first URL, then second URL, and you may actually see it)

Stupid web "designers"

Quoted message said:

<url:http://www.edinburgh-bicycle.co.uk/>
<url:http://www.edinburgh-bicycle.co.uk/catalogue/detail.cfm?ID=17910>

30 quid, plus a casette. More reasonable than the 60 I first assumed, I
guess. Not as big a percentage of a new bike.

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
There's a song about Alice

Ambrose Nankivell wrote:

(forgot to reply to this bit)

Quoted message said:

Indeed, I've bent axles with freewheels, and I'm only 60kg (9 and a
half stone in old money).

[censored]! Which kind of cheese are they made from?

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
Arkle for President