10 Speed chains

Doug Taylor said:

Received an e-mail this a.m. from Excel Sports for New Products.

The 2007 SRAM 10 speed chain with Powerlock (not "Powerlink"😉 is now
available:
http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?page=8&description=Chain%20PC-1090%20Hollow%20pin%2010sp&vendorCode=SRAM&major=1&minor=11

Interestingly, no picture of what the "Powerlock Connecting Link"
looks like seems to be available. You can buy one at Bikeman for
$14.00, whatever it is:

http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/c/COMPCHMASTER

Here's how Lennard Zinn described it last April:

"The PowerChain has hollow pins, and, like other SRAM chains, a master
link, but in this case, the new PowerLock link is not removable.
Pippin credits an engineer in SRAM's Portugal facility for coming up
with PowerLock and says, 'the linking system is always the weakest
link, but our 9-speed PowerLink is as strong as the surrounding links.
We wanted to do the same with the connector link in our 10-speed
chain, but because of the constraints of the narrow chain, we made it
a permanent connection.'

It locks in by hand like the PowerLink, but if the rider wants to open
the chain, he must do so at a different link and then install another
PowerLock link to close it up again."

http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/9723.0.html

" The 1070 chain is the base model, the 1090 chain has hollow pins,
and the 1090R also has hollow outer plates."

1070 = $40
1090 = $44
1090R=$54

http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/c/COMPCHBRSRAM

Well, what if I'm addicted to the good old "powerlink"?

Well, I can buy a Wipperman and get an asymmetrical connex link, which
won't work if you are dumb enough to put it on backwards or upside
sown or whatever (that WOULD be me). I can even spend close to $100
on a friggin' chain if for some bizarre reason I want a stainless one
(and trust me, I don't).

I can buy any 10 speed chain (as long as I get the width right) and
separately buy a KMC missing link @ $14.

What I have opted for, finally, is IRD, which sells both Shimano and
Campy compatible 10 speed chains @ $40 with a "Snap Link" (which looks
and works similar to the SRAM 9 speed Powerlink) with the correct
width, comes with the chain, and retails separately for $11 if you
need one.

http://www.interlocracing.com/chains.html

But I'm open to any better suggestions.

Dump the new-fangled stuff that costs an arm and a leg, is finicky,
and wears quickly.

Honestly, who needs thirty different combinations of gears in the
range between, say, 35 and 100 inches? A well-chosen five or six-speed
rear and two or three front rings is more than enough; the cycle
manufacturers would dearly love it if we bought all new,
incompatible-with-the-previous every year, but wouldn't you have more
value from your pound by taking a cycling holiday in the Loire valley
than buying new kit?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with PowerLock and says, 'the linking system is always the weakest
link, but our 9-speed PowerLink is as strong as the surrounding links.

Ummm....so the linking system is NOT always the weakest link?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well, what if I'm addicted to the good old "powerlink"?

That would be me. I switched to PowerLink on my 8/9 speed drivetrains
a few months ago, and I love the "power" of quick, tool-less chain
removal. I really miss it on my 10-speed setup. No local suppliers
seem to carry any 10-speed (Wipperman, KMC, IRD) quick links. Clearly
you think that the Wipperman is more trouble than it is worth....has
anyone else experienced problems with the conneX link? Based solely on
the limited marketing I've seen, this would be my first choice.

Any specific reason you chose the IRD over the KMC?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But I'm open to any better suggestions.

Dump the new-fangled stuff that costs an arm and a leg, is finicky,
and wears quickly.

Right...because I'm going to switch my 10 speed system to an older 9
speed drivetrain. It's not like you have much choice on most new road
bikes...I haven't seen any (local) Shimano 105, Ultegra, or DA bikes
setup with a 9-speed drivetrain this year. I'm not saying that
10-speed is better, but cost/effort involved in swapping a drivetrain
coupled with 'downgrading' to 9-speed would be a difficult sell for
most people. I don't have any experience with Campy kit.

Quoted message said:

Honestly, who needs thirty different combinations of gears in the
range between, say, 35 and 100 inches?

Nobody. But if the gears are there, people will use them. I was
served well by my 12-speed steed, but I certainly wouldn't go back to
it after riding my 2x10 setup.

Quoted message said:

wouldn't you have more
value from your pound by taking a cycling holiday in the Loire valley
than buying new kit?

Seems that the OP already had a 10-speed drivetrain, so I don't see
this as a valid argument. Does anyone know the price difference
between Shimano 105 for this year (10 speed) vs. last year (9 speed)?
I bet that it wouldn't cover a cycling holiday!

Borrall Wonnell said:

Any specific reason you chose the IRD over the KMC?

I have an IRD cassette - I didn't want to take any risk that the chain
width would not being as compatible as possible, due to how finicky 10
speeds are adjusting the shifting (as compared with the ease of 8 and
9)

Doug Taylor said:

Borrall Wonnell said:

Any specific reason you chose the IRD over the KMC?

I have an IRD cassette - I didn't want to take any risk that the chain
width would not being as compatible as possible, due to how finicky 10
speeds are adjusting the shifting (as compared with the ease of 8 and
9)

What makes a 10 speed more finicky? I don't get it. Just get a 10 speed
chain. Never, ever had any problem for over 5 years now. Keep you cables
and chain in good condition and that's it.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

Borrall Wonnell said:

That would be me. I switched to PowerLink on my 8/9 speed drivetrains
a few months ago, and I love the "power" of quick, tool-less chain
removal. I really miss it on my 10-speed setup. No local suppliers
seem to carry any 10-speed (Wipperman, KMC, IRD) quick links.

Mail order?

Clearly

Quoted message said:

you think that the Wipperman is more trouble than it is worth....has
anyone else experienced problems with the conneX link?

No, they are easier than a powerlink.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

Doug Taylor said:

Received an e-mail this a.m. from Excel Sports for New Products.

The 2007 SRAM 10 speed chain with Powerlock (not "Powerlink"😉 is now
available:
http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?page=8&description=Chain%20PC-1090%20Hollow%20pin%2010sp&vendorCode=SRAM&major=1&minor=11

Interestingly, no picture of what the "Powerlock Connecting Link"
looks like seems to be available. You can buy one at Bikeman for
$14.00, whatever it is:

http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/c/COMPCHMASTER

Here's how Lennard Zinn described it last April:

"The PowerChain has hollow pins, and, like other SRAM chains, a master
link, but in this case, the new PowerLock link is not removable.
Pippin credits an engineer in SRAM's Portugal facility for coming up
with PowerLock and says, 'the linking system is always the weakest
link, but our 9-speed PowerLink is as strong as the surrounding links.
We wanted to do the same with the connector link in our 10-speed
chain, but because of the constraints of the narrow chain, we made it
a permanent connection.'

It locks in by hand like the PowerLink, but if the rider wants to open
the chain, he must do so at a different link and then install another
PowerLock link to close it up again."

http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/9723.0.html

" The 1070 chain is the base model, the 1090 chain has hollow pins,
and the 1090R also has hollow outer plates."

1070 = $40
1090 = $44
1090R=$54

http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/c/COMPCHBRSRAM

Well, what if I'm addicted to the good old "powerlink"?

Well, I can buy a Wipperman and get an asymmetrical connex link, which
won't work if you are dumb enough to put it on backwards or upside
sown or whatever (that WOULD be me). I can even spend close to $100
on a friggin' chain if for some bizarre reason I want a stainless one
(and trust me, I don't).

I can buy any 10 speed chain (as long as I get the width right) and
separately buy a KMC missing link @ $14.

What I have opted for, finally, is IRD, which sells both Shimano and
Campy compatible 10 speed chains @ $40 with a "Snap Link" (which looks
and works similar to the SRAM 9 speed Powerlink) with the correct
width, comes with the chain, and retails separately for $11 if you
need one.

http://www.interlocracing.com/chains.html

But I'm open to any better suggestions.

Use a 9-speed SRAM chain and it'll work fine.
--
Phil Lee, Squid

Doug Taylor said:

What I have opted for, finally, is IRD, which sells both Shimano and
Campy compatible 10 speed chains @ $40 with a "Snap Link" (which looks
and works similar to the SRAM 9 speed Powerlink) with the correct
width, comes with the chain, and retails separately for $11 if you
need one.

I've had great luck with the KMC 10sp DX/Shimano width. I use it on
my Campy and Shimano 10 cogs. A link comes with the chain. The
finish looks similar to Ultegra. On one bike, my 50/34 upshifts
faster with the KMC than it did with a Shimano 10 chain. The KMC
chain costs ~ to Shimano 105 x 10 sp chain.

Lou Holtman said:

What makes a 10 speed more finicky? I don't get it. Just get a 10 speed
chain. Never, ever had any problem for over 5 years now. Keep you cables
and chain in good condition and that's it.

The narrow gap between the cogs in my amateur opinion. I seriously
doubt that I am the only basement mechanic out there who has
discovered that adjusting 10 speed is finicky - ESPECIALLY when you
mix and match aftermarket components. With 9 speed, you set your rear
derailleur limits, shift to the small cog, stretch the cable, pull it
tight, then tighten the set screw. Voila. Maybe a quarter turn of
the adjusting screw up or down, and you are set until you need change
your chain and cogs. Adjusting 10 speed IME requires patience and
persistence on a par with trying to get a high maintenance woman in
the mood to f***. Maybe I'm too type A

Doug Taylor said:

Lou Holtman said:

What makes a 10 speed more finicky? I don't get it. Just get a 10 speed
chain. Never, ever had any problem for over 5 years now. Keep you cables
and chain in good condition and that's it.

The narrow gap between the cogs in my amateur opinion. I seriously
doubt that I am the only basement mechanic out there who has
discovered that adjusting 10 speed is finicky - ESPECIALLY when you
mix and match aftermarket components. With 9 speed, you set your rear
derailleur limits, shift to the small cog, stretch the cable, pull it
tight, then tighten the set screw. Voila. Maybe a quarter turn of
the adjusting screw up or down, and you are set until you need change
your chain and cogs.

That is all I do with my 10 speed stuff. I have two 10 speed bikes and
both are as easy to adjust as my 9 speed ATB. As a matter of fact there
is nothing to adjust. You can not change the amount off cable pull per
shifter click. Positioning the upper pulley right under the cog
corresponding withe the shifter position is all you can do.
To be honest I don't mix and match with aftermarket components. There is
no reason for me.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

Lou Holtman said:

That is all I do with my 10 speed stuff. I have two 10 speed bikes and
both are as easy to adjust as my 9 speed ATB. As a matter of fact there
is nothing to adjust. You can not change the amount off cable pull per
shifter click. Positioning the upper pulley right under the cog
corresponding withe the shifter position is all you can do.
To be honest I don't mix and match with aftermarket components. There is
no reason for me.

I suppose if you have a full Shimano group, you have no compatibility
problems and no adjustment problems.

Back to the OP. I run FSA compact cranks up front and IRD 11-28
cogset in the back. A 50:34 compact + 11-28 cogs have the advantages
of having a high gear of 50:11 (equal to or greater than 53:12) when
you need it, being able to stay in the big ring without shifting down
for a lot of terrain, and 2 super low gears to climb telephone poles
seated when needed. But there are a lot of 2 tooth jumps, and that
contributes to finicky shifting and fine tooth (if you will)
adjustments. So I want an IRD chain so there is no incompatibility
with that part of the drive train.

Doug Taylor said:

Lou Holtman said:

What makes a 10 speed more finicky? I don't get it. Just get a 10 speed
chain. Never, ever had any problem for over 5 years now. Keep you cables
and chain in good condition and that's it.

The narrow gap between the cogs in my amateur opinion. I seriously
doubt that I am the only basement mechanic out there who has
discovered that adjusting 10 speed is finicky - ESPECIALLY when you
mix and match aftermarket components. With 9 speed, you set your rear
derailleur limits, shift to the small cog, stretch the cable, pull it
tight, then tighten the set screw. Voila. Maybe a quarter turn of
the adjusting screw up or down, and you are set until you need change
your chain and cogs. Adjusting 10 speed IME requires patience and
persistence on a par with trying to get a high maintenance woman in
the mood to f***. Maybe I'm too type A

Actually my '10s' is easy to adjust...set the limit screws and then
shift around. never have a problem with getting the chain onto the
correct cog...10s-> 2 in the front, 5 in the back....good enough for
Eddy, good enough for me.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Actually my '10s' is easy to adjust...set the limit screws and then
shift around. never have a problem with getting the chain onto the
correct cog...10s-> 2 in the front, 5 in the back....good enough for
Eddy, good enough for me.

Yeah, but you're a "real" mechanic running a full Campy group. I'm an
amateur with mix and match aftermarket stuff. Bad combo. :-)

Doug Taylor said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Actually my '10s' is easy to adjust...set the limit screws and then
shift around. never have a problem with getting the chain onto the
correct cog...10s-> 2 in the front, 5 in the back....good enough for
Eddy, good enough for me.

Yeah, but you're a "real" mechanic running a full Campy group. I'm an
amateur with mix and match aftermarket stuff. Bad combo. :-)

But in this case, Peter is a retro-grouch using friction shifters. It
was all Eddy had, at that time. I very much doubt, that even the great
Eddy Merckx, would not take advantage of the latest and greatest
grouppo.

To me, there's good enough, and then, when there is something better,
that will be my choice. I went from a retro 10-speed, to an indexed,
but still retro 12-speed, to my current 27-speed[3x9]. Given a choice,
I will always ride the 27-speed*. If the 27-speed was not available, I
would happily ride the old 12-speed, rather than not ride at all.
Of course, to each his own.

* Yes I know it is normally referred to as a 9-speed triple, but I
didn't want to be confusing, as we were also discussing 10-speed [2x5]
and 12-speed[2x6].

Life is Good!
Jeff