12 speed Campy?

Who wants 12? I can't get 1000 miles out of ten speed chain. It's junk,
bring back 8.

Ken

"Llatikcuf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Maybe old news, but new to me:

http://www.campyonly.com/rumors.html

"June 22, 2005--We're hearing rumors floating around Vicenza that
Campagnolo will unveil a 12-speed Record gruppo for 2006. No details
yet on how they would fit two more cogs on the hub. More details as we
get them ..."

When will it end?

-n

IMKen said:

Who wants 12? I can't get 1000 miles out of ten speed chain. It's junk,
bring back 8.

You must be doing something wrong if you can't get 1000 miles from a
chain. I get about 4000 to 5000 miles from a 10-speed chain without
excessive wear.

-as

IMKen said:

Who wants 12? I can't get 1000 miles out of ten speed chain. It's junk,
bring back 8.

Ken

Then you need a better wrench. I see the same wear on 10s chains,
measured with a length checker(Rohloff) as I did with 8s or 9s. I hear
this '10s chains wear out in short order' all the time but I don't see
it. How do ya know the chain is worn? What do you do to confirm this?

I have one customer that rides by all the time for us to measure his
chain. He has 4000 miles and it still measures like new, a Campag 10s
chain. He keeps it clean, doesn't cross chain.

IMKen said:

Who wants 12? I can't get 1000 miles out of ten speed chain. It's junk,
bring back 8.

Ken

Thinner plates and shorter pins don't make a chain wear out any
quicker.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

IMKen said:

Who wants 12? I can't get 1000 miles out of ten speed chain. It's junk,
bring back 8.

Ken

Thinner plates and shorter pins don't make a chain wear out any
quicker.

Dear Peter,

Why wouldn't narrow pins wear more quickly than wide pins?

Carl Fogel

Carl asked: Why wouldn't narrow pins wear more quickly than wide pins?

Dear Carl:

Why would they?

I sense you believe they would by your question.

Peter (not C.)

Quoted message said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

IMKen said:

Who wants 12? I can't get 1000 miles out of ten speed chain. It's junk,
bring back 8.

Ken

Thinner plates and shorter pins don't make a chain wear out any
quicker.

Dear Peter,

Why wouldn't narrow pins wear more quickly than wide pins?

Carl Fogel

Because the contact area between the pin and the inner plates matter.
And so far as I can see that has not changed from 9 to 10 speed chains.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

On 31 Aug 2005 08:51:52 -0700, "App" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Carl asked: Why wouldn't narrow pins wear more quickly than wide pins?

Dear Carl:

Why would they?

I sense you believe they would by your question.

Peter (not C.)

Dear App,

Aaargh!

I was thinking the wrong way because I'm thinking about
motorcycles at the moment.

The bicycle chain pins and plates remain the same thickness,
so they wear at the same rate for "narrow" and "wide"
chains. All that changes on the bicycle chains is how wide
the space is for the gear tooth.

Here's a picture of the kind of "narrow" that I had in mind:

http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/chain_a.jpg

The motorcycle and bicycle chains are the same pitch, but
the pins and plates are much thicker--but that's not what
happens when 8-speed bicycle chain is narrowed to 10-speed.

You're right, Peter Chisholm was right, and I shouldn't be
up this early in the morning.

Carl Fogel

Lou Holtman said:

Quoted message said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

IMKen wrote:

>Who wants 12? I can't get 1000 miles out of ten speed chain. It's junk,
>bring back 8.
>
>Ken

Thinner plates and shorter pins don't make a chain wear out any
quicker.

Dear Peter,

Why wouldn't narrow pins wear more quickly than wide pins?

Carl Fogel

Because the contact area between the pin and the inner plates matter.
And so far as I can see that has not changed from 9 to 10 speed chains.

Lou

Dear Lou,

Aaargh!

I was thinking the wrong way because I'm thinking about
motorcycles at the moment.

The bicycle chain pins and plates remain the same thickness,
so they wear at the same rate for "narrow" and "wide"
chains. All that changes on the bicycle chains is how wide
the space is for the gear tooth.

Here's a picture of the kind of "narrow" that I had in mind:

http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/chain_a.jpg

The motorcycle and bicycle chains are the same pitch, but
the pins and plates are much thicker--but that's not what
happens when 8-speed bicycle chain is narrowed to 10-speed.

You're right, Peter Chisholm was right, and I shouldn't be
up this early in the morning.

Carl Fogel

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

IMKen said:

Who wants 12? I can't get 1000 miles out of ten speed chain. It's junk,
bring back 8.

Ken

Then you need a better wrench. I see the same wear on 10s chains,
measured with a length checker(Rohloff) as I did with 8s or 9s. I hear
this '10s chains wear out in short order' all the time but I don't see
it. How do ya know the chain is worn? What do you do to confirm this?

I have one customer that rides by all the time for us to measure his
chain. He has 4000 miles and it still measures like new, a Campag 10s
chain. He keeps it clean, doesn't cross chain.

I'll second that. 1000 miles is a ridiculous low mileage. I ride 10
speed for almost 3 years now (22000 km) and I use my second chain now
and the first cogset/chainwheels.
The other day a passed the 10000 km mark on the second C10 chain and for
fun I compared that chain with a new one, wich I have standby. Normally
I NEVER take my chain of my bike for cleaning. I use some sort of wax a
collegue of mine 'invented'. Cleaning means rinsing the chain with cold
water from a garden hose, dry the chain (usually compressed air =
quicker) and lube again. I do this every 400 km (once 1-2 week) in dry
conditions or after every (very) wet ride.
Because I was at it I compared my Connex 9 speed stainless steel chain
from my Singlespeed also with the new C10 chain.

http://home.planet.nl/~holtm072/albums/kettingslijtage20042005/

The left chain is the Connex SS 9 sp chain from my singlespeed after
4300 km, the middle chain is a new C10 chain and the right chain is the
C10 chain of my road bike after 10000 km. All chains are hanging in full
length ( about 104 links) on a nail from the ceiling.

C10 chain is a very very good chain IMO.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

Quoted message said:

Lou Holtman said:

Quoted message said:

On 31 Aug 2005 06:22:36 -0700, "Qui si parla Campagnolo"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

>IMKen wrote:
>
>
>>Who wants 12? I can't get 1000 miles out of ten speed chain. It's junk,
>>bring back 8.
>>
>>Ken
>
>
>Thinner plates and shorter pins don't make a chain wear out any
>quicker.

Dear Peter,

Why wouldn't narrow pins wear more quickly than wide pins?

Carl Fogel

Because the contact area between the pin and the inner plates matter.
And so far as I can see that has not changed from 9 to 10 speed chains.

Lou

Dear Lou,

Aaargh!

I was thinking the wrong way because I'm thinking about
motorcycles at the moment.

The bicycle chain pins and plates remain the same thickness,
so they wear at the same rate for "narrow" and "wide"
chains. All that changes on the bicycle chains is how wide
the space is for the gear tooth.

Here's a picture of the kind of "narrow" that I had in mind:

http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/chain_a.jpg

The motorcycle and bicycle chains are the same pitch, but
the pins and plates are much thicker--but that's not what
happens when 8-speed bicycle chain is narrowed to 10-speed.

You're right, Peter Chisholm was right, and I shouldn't be
up this early in the morning.

Carl Fogel

Early in the morning? It's 7.00 pm here ;-)

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:59:08 +0200, Lou Holtman <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The other day a passed the 10000 km mark on the second C10 chain and for
fun I compared that chain with a new one, wich I have standby. Normally
I NEVER take my chain of my bike for cleaning. I use some sort of wax a
collegue of mine 'invented

Yeah, but you use MAGIC LUBRICATION WAX!

Jasper (poke, poke)

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Thinner plates and shorter pins don't make a chain wear out any
quicker.

Since these chains are bushingless, do the thinner sideplates not also
mean that there is less material on the stamped-sideplate
bushing-replacement-thingies?

Jasper

Jasper Janssen said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Thinner plates and shorter pins don't make a chain wear out any
quicker.

Since these chains are bushingless, do the thinner sideplates not also
mean that there is less material on the stamped-sideplate
bushing-replacement-thingies?

Not necessarily.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

Lou Holtman said:

I NEVER take my chain of my bike for cleaning. I use some sort of wax a
collegue of mine 'invented'. Cleaning means rinsing the chain with cold
water from a garden hose, dry the chain (usually compressed air =
quicker) and lube again. I do this every 400 km (once 1-2 week) in dry
conditions or after every (very) wet ride.

Any chance of getting the secret formula for that wax lube? I've been
using generic furniture wax myself lately with good results... but I
apply it almost daily (spray on rag and wipe). I suppose I could spray
it into a bottle and drip it on...

And Ken... how are you only getting 1,000 miles? It hasn't even been
raining much here lately. I've got over 3,000 miles on my cheap SRAM
chain, and wear is too little to measure.

Ron Ruff said:

Lou Holtman said:

I NEVER take my chain of my bike for cleaning. I use some sort of wax a
collegue of mine 'invented'. Cleaning means rinsing the chain with cold
water from a garden hose, dry the chain (usually compressed air =
quicker) and lube again. I do this every 400 km (once 1-2 week) in dry
conditions or after every (very) wet ride.

Any chance of getting the secret formula for that wax lube? I've been
using generic furniture wax myself lately with good results... but I
apply it almost daily (spray on rag and wipe). I suppose I could spray
it into a bottle and drip it on...

And Ken... how are you only getting 1,000 miles? It hasn't even been
raining much here lately. I've got over 3,000 miles on my cheap SRAM
chain, and wear is too little to measure.

Dear Ron,

Possibly Ken spends more time in the lower gears than most
riders? Chain wear increases with the number of trips that
it makes around the gears.

Or possibly the lack of rain has left Ken's unwashed chain
in an unusually repellent state of filth?

Low-gear riding in the dirt often reduces the chain life of
off-road bicycles.

Carl Fogel

Ron Ruff said:

Lou Holtman said:

I NEVER take my chain of my bike for cleaning. I use some sort of wax a
collegue of mine 'invented'. Cleaning means rinsing the chain with cold
water from a garden hose, dry the chain (usually compressed air =
quicker) and lube again. I do this every 400 km (once 1-2 week) in dry
conditions or after every (very) wet ride.

Any chance of getting the secret formula for that wax lube? I've been

You can buy it -- I'm sure the guy would be happy to ship you a case. He's
doing it commercially now, so no free lunch. Or you can pester your local
store to carry it.

Jasper

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:59:40 +0200, Lou Holtman <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Jasper Janssen said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Thinner plates and shorter pins don't make a chain wear out any
quicker.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Since these chains are bushingless, do the thinner sideplates not also
mean that there is less material on the stamped-sideplate
bushing-replacement-thingies?

Not necessarily.

Okay, explain? Since the non-bushings are essentially formed by deforming
a piece of plate steel, wouldn't they range from the thickness of the
sideplate to a little bit less near the center?

Jasper

Have you seen a decrease in the life of cogs as they get thinner? Or do
the cogs stay about the same width and they trim the spacing? Both?
Seems like my old 7 speed cogs lasted forever, 9 speed ~5years - or
maybe 5 years just seemed like forever back then....

-n