13G spokes?

[[email protected]]

This could be a dumb question, but after the look my <heavy
satire>friendly</heavy satire> LBS gave me when I asked for one I'm
reluctant to ring around other bike shops. So is there a good source
of 13G[1] spokes in Australia? Common as muck or no chance?

I've got a 15G (I think, its 2mm anyway) in there at the moment but
I'd prefer a matching spoke. Also some *ahem* "field" get-you-home
type truing with a little shifter when I broke the spoke originally
has buggered a few 13G nipples so I need some nipples anyway (I now
own a spoke key and will have it with me at all times on the bike in
future after seeing how far the wheel went out of true with only one
broken spoke).

Oh, err, and when I say 13G, that's the slot in my spoke tool that
fits. When I measured the spoke pre owning a spoke tool it showed
2.24mm. I couldn't get any conclusive translation between AWG and
2.24mm. Sheldon Brown seems to think 13G is 2.34mm...

Any help appreciated. If anyone wants to come an true my wheel that'd
be good too ;-)

[1] Yes, the wheel is carrying a lot of weight [2]
[2] No, it's not all me

 

[[email protected]]

On Feb 1, 3:01 pm, "Theo Bekkers" <[email protected]> wrote:
> tryhttp://www.mogami.com/e/cad/wire-gauge.html
>
> Theo

Thanks Theo! Question now as before but substitue 12 for 13, in which
case I have absolutely no idea what the little numbers on my spoke key
refers to.

 

[Theo Bekkers]

[email protected] wrote:
> On Feb 1, 3:01 pm, "Theo Bekkers" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> tryhttp://www.mogami.com/e/cad/wire-gauge.html

> Thanks Theo! Question now as before but substitue 12 for 13, in which
> case I have absolutely no idea what the little numbers on my spoke key
> refers to.

Nor do I. The larger the gauge number, the smaller the wire. Just key the
number into the calculator and click on compute.
My spoke spanner is in mm. Gauge is a wire size and is vaguely related to
the size of the nut on the nipple. It is not unusual on bicycle spokes to
have a spanner which fits nuts on different gauge spokes.

Theo

 

[[email protected]]

On Feb 1, 3:42 pm, "Theo Bekkers" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Nor do I. The larger the gauge number, the smaller the wire. Just key the
> number into the calculator and click on compute.
> My spoke spanner is in mm. Gauge is a wire size and is vaguely related to
> the size of the nut on the nipple. It is not unusual on bicycle spokes to
> have a spanner which fits nuts on different gauge spokes.
>
> Theo


Maybe I can just find someone who'll sell me 2.24mm spokes. I just
thought bike shops spoke "gauge" which is why I started (a decision
I'm regretting). I'm now slightly more confused than when I started.
Sheldon Brown says 2.3mm = 13G but that converter says it = 12G. He
says 2mm = 14G, it says 13G. *sigh*.

Still, I've got a spare brand new rear wheel in the shed, sort of.
<whistles innocently while making sure BT isn't looking>

 

[BT Humble]

On Feb 1, 3:55 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Feb 1, 3:42 pm, "Theo Bekkers" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Nor do I. The larger the gauge number, the smaller the wire. Just key the
> > number into the calculator and click on compute.
> > My spoke spanner is in mm. Gauge is a wire size and is vaguely related to
> > the size of the nut on the nipple. It is not unusual on bicycle spokes to
> > have a spanner which fits nuts on different gauge spokes.
>
> > Theo
>
> Maybe I can just find someone who'll sell me 2.24mm spokes. I just
> thought bike shops spoke "gauge" which is why I started (a decision
> I'm regretting). I'm now slightly more confused than when I started.
> Sheldon Brown says 2.3mm = 13G but that converter says it = 12G. He
> says 2mm = 14G, it says 13G. *sigh*.
>
> Still, I've got a spare brand new rear wheel in the shed, sort of.
> <whistles innocently while making sureBTisn't looking>

I don't like your chances for fitting a 27" 3-speed-hubbed rear wheel
into a 26" MTB frame.

The other way around might work though!


BTH

 

[Terryc]

[email protected] wrote:

> Oh, err, and when I say 13G, that's the slot in my spoke tool that
> fits.

If that is the righle angle profiled doughnut one, then the sizes are
"loose".

13G were common 20 years ago {.

 

[Sheldon Brown]

>From "Machinery's Handbook" 21st edition, 1980 p463:

"WIRE AND SHEET METAL GAGES

"The thickness of sheet metals and the diameters of wires conform to
various gaging systems. These gage sizes are indicated by numbers and
the following tables give the decimal equivalents of the different
gage numbers.Much confusion has resulted from the use of gage numbers
and in ordering materials it is preferable to give the exact
dimensions in decimal fractions of an inch... [millimeters preferred
nowadays-SB]

"...the decimal method of indicating wire diameters ...has the
advantage of being self-explanatory, whereas arbtrary gage numbers are
not. The decimal system of indicating gage sizes is now being used
quite generaly, and gage numbers are gradually being discarded.
Unfortunately there is is considerable vaiation in the use fo
different gages. For example a gage commonly used for copper, brass
and other non-ferrous metals may at times be used for steel, and vice
versa...

"The wire gage system used by practically all the steel producers in
the United States is known by the name Steel Wire Gage or to
distinguish if from the Standard Wire Gage (S.W.G.) used in Great
Britain it is called he United States Stee Wire Gage. It is the same
as te Washburn and Moen, American Steel and Wire Company, and Roebling
Wire Gages. The name has the official sanction o fthe Bureau of
Standards at Washington, but is not legally effective. The only gage
which has been recognized in Acts of Congress is the Birmingham
Gage...the Birmingham Gage is, however, nearly obsolete both in the
United States and in Great Britain, where it originated...

"In Great Britain one wire gage has been legalized. This is called
the Standard Wire Gage (S.W.G.), formerly called Imperial Wire Gage."

The U.S. system, S.W.G. and Birmingham gages are all the same for 15
gage, 0.72" (1.8288 mm.)

I have added this infromation to my Bicycle Glossary at: http://
sheldonbrown.com/gloss_g.html#gauge

I have also added an excerpt from the detailed chart with higher
precision, for those who are interested.

Sheldon "Numbers" Brown
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
| Want of care does us more damage than want of knowledge. |
| -- Benjamin Franklin |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[[email protected]]

On Feb 1, 10:22 pm, Terryc <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > Oh, err, and when I say 13G, that's the slot in my spoke tool that
> > fits.
>
> If that is the righle angle profiled doughnut one, then the sizes are
> "loose".

Like this super el-cheapo one?
http://www.torpedo7.com/page/australia/PROD/tools-accessories/SBTOONNSKXXXXX
Live and learn I suppose...

> 13G were common 20 years ago {.

Buying a Chinese made bike is like a history lesson in bicycle
technology ;-) On the upside, there's spare parts aplenty to be had
at the local rubbish tip!

 

[[email protected]]

On Feb 1, 10:07 pm, "BT Humble" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Feb 1, 3:55 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > Still, I've got a spare brand new rear wheel in the shed, sort of.
> > <whistles innocently while making sureBTisn't looking>
>
> I don't like your chances for fitting a 27" 3-speed-hubbed rear wheel
> into a 26" MTB frame.

Well I haven't got that wheel as yet, but I did pick up this nice
shiny still-in-the-box bike yesterday and I reckon that wheel would
work perfectly ;-)

> The other way around might work though!

Why I outghta... *shakes fist*

 

[Terryc]

[email protected] wrote:

> Like this super el-cheapo one?
> http://www.torpedo7.com/page/australia/PROD/tools-accessories/SBTOONNSKXXXXX
> Live and learn I suppose...

Yep, that is it.


> Buying a Chinese made bike is like a history lesson in bicycle
> technology ;-) On the upside, there's spare parts aplenty to be had
> at the local rubbish tip!

Alas, we are not allowed to do that. I have to continually ride the
streets looking for hard rubbish collections. We can ask for four each
any time of the year, so it makes it rather hard.

Also, there is at least one non-official truck doing the rounds taking
away any metal in the piles.
>

 

[[email protected]]

Found!

http://www.phantomcycles.com.au/product.php?productid=1128&cat=0&page=2

 

[Paulie-AU]

If you want 13g spokes then get DT Alpine III. (these are butted so are 13 at head and then reduce to 14g along the length of the spoke)

2mm is a 14g spoke (DT Champion)

1.8mm is a 13g spoke (DT Revolution....actually these vary in Gauge over length)

If you are breaking spokes at the head then a butted spoke will do the job (DT Alpine III).

Another cause of breaking spokes at the head is due to wear in the spoke holes of the hub. Prolonged use at low tension will increase the size of the hole and then allow wear. If your hub is worn, ditch it and get a new one and make sure the person who builds your wheel seats the spoke heads correctly.

 

[[email protected]]

On Feb 7, 2:58 pm, Paulie-AU <Paulie-AU.2lm...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> If you want 13g spokes then get DT Alpine III. (these are butted so are
> 13 at head and then reduce to 14g along the length of the spoke)

That's exactly what Kerry from Phantomcycles suggested.

> 2mm is a 14g spoke (DT Champion)
>
> 1.8mm is a 13g spoke (DT Revolution....actually these vary in Gauge
> over length)

Erk, I thought 13G = 2.3mm

> If you are breaking spokes at the head then a butted spoke will do the
> job (DT Alpine III).
>
> Another cause of breaking spokes at the head is due to wear in the
> spoke holes of the hub. Prolonged use at low tension will increase the
> size of the hole and then allow wear. If your hub is worn, ditch it and
> get a new one and make sure the person who builds your wheel seats the
> spoke heads correctly.

The bike only has 1700km on it so I don't think it's the hub being
worn, though it did break at the head. When I broke it I thought it
was my rough handling of the bike, but Kerry reckoned it shouldn't
have broken when I described what I did. He's familiar with the model
of bike and wheel since he rebuilt one for a customer. I'm afraid
it's probably a victim of Chinese metalurgy.

I'm currently torn between buying a few spokes (so I have spares) and
replacing the broken one myself, or sending the wheel to Phantomcycles
and having them rebuild it with double butted spokes for ~$100 (~$72
for spokes + labour and truing). I'm not feeling motivated/capable of
respoking the whole wheel myself.

I like the idea of having it done professionally but I've never posted
a bicycle wheel before so not sure how to package it. I would guess
sandwiched between two thick pieces of cardboard would be a good start
though.

 

[Friday]

[email protected] wrote:
> On Feb 7, 2:58 pm, Paulie-AU <Paulie-AU.2lm...@no-
> mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
>> If you want 13g spokes then get DT Alpine III. (these are butted so are
>> 13 at head and then reduce to 14g along the length of the spoke)
>
> That's exactly what Kerry from Phantomcycles suggested.
>
>> 2mm is a 14g spoke (DT Champion)
>>
>> 1.8mm is a 13g spoke (DT Revolution....actually these vary in Gauge
>> over length)
>
> Erk, I thought 13G = 2.3mm
>
>> If you are breaking spokes at the head then a butted spoke will do the
>> job (DT Alpine III).
>>
>> Another cause of breaking spokes at the head is due to wear in the
>> spoke holes of the hub. Prolonged use at low tension will increase the
>> size of the hole and then allow wear. If your hub is worn, ditch it and
>> get a new one and make sure the person who builds your wheel seats the
>> spoke heads correctly.
>
> The bike only has 1700km on it so I don't think it's the hub being
> worn, though it did break at the head. When I broke it I thought it
> was my rough handling of the bike, but Kerry reckoned it shouldn't
> have broken when I described what I did. He's familiar with the model
> of bike and wheel since he rebuilt one for a customer. I'm afraid
> it's probably a victim of Chinese metalurgy.
>
> I'm currently torn between buying a few spokes (so I have spares) and
> replacing the broken one myself, or sending the wheel to Phantomcycles
> and having them rebuild it with double butted spokes for ~$100 (~$72
> for spokes + labour and truing). I'm not feeling motivated/capable of
> respoking the whole wheel myself.
>
> I like the idea of having it done professionally but I've never posted
> a bicycle wheel before so not sure how to package it. I would guess
> sandwiched between two thick pieces of cardboard would be a good start
> though.
>

I know of people that won't use "butted" spokes because they often break
at the "butting".

Friday