2007 Redline 925 first impressions

One last thing that was disappointing. It was supposed to come with IRC
30mm tandem tires with an oval cross-section, but came with Kenda
Cosmos instead. I'm a little bummed, as the Kendas are a major step
down. Calling the shop about this seems petty, as I'm assuming that it
happened on the production line, not the shop, as Kenda Cosmos seem to
be OEM only. 28mm with a goofy tread, but not a dealbreaker.

landotter said:

Big thumbs up. Only major thing I would have changed are using
semi-horizontal rear drops to make wheel removal simple. Track style
dropouts are fashionable, with their rockin' chain tugs and all, but
quite dumb when you're using a rear brake. I can live with that.

Coolness plus-max in NYC circa 1998.

Things to not do:

Flat.

(In the rain.)

(With stern fender(ersatz rudder?).)

landotter said:

Finally, after 7 weeks, the dang thing came. Of course on the stormiest
of nasty days. Gave me the patience to dial it in at least.

Everything on it is good quality for starters. Nothing is skimpy
feeling. Stuff like house branded post and Alex rims are
inexpensive--but it's a two bolt post and double wall eyeletted rim
regardless. Tektro brakes are fantastic, I don't care if they're
inexpensive. Super feel, and stopped with aplomb in this downpour.
Frame welds are small and neat, and the paint looks to be very decent,
fading from black to grey. Two bottles of touch up paint, black and
grey are included. Fenders are top notch Planet Bike. Hubs are value
Formulas w/o labeling, and smooooth. Crankset is a FSA with bmx sized
rings, so cheap to replace. Pedals are Wellgo, but the model that comes
with the non-cubical bearings, plenty smooth. Mini-clips are a matter
of personal taste. The included chainguard is next to invisible, and if
you run it fixed, a super safety device, if a bit Fredly. Mine's
staying on. Finally, the included saddle feels suspiciously like a
rebadged or cloned WTB. It's narrow, and a bit squishy--but seems
perfect for sub ten mile urban rides. The ladies will deffo need a
wider saddle.

Shortfalls: moustache bars on this thing are set up like [censored] in my
experience and on all the photos I've seen on the net. Most shops set
the bars with too much angle, but you want almost flat with just a
slight downward lean on the flats. The brake levers are completely set
up wrong. Redline should deal with this on the production line. I
unwrapped the bars and slid them a few centimeters inward. The clamp
needs to be at the center of or a little towards the stem in relation
to the curve. Angle works best flat or very slightly down with the
hoods. Making them right makes the cables too long, so I've left mine
exiting the tape at the lever, not the stem, till I can shorten the
housings. Have your shop fix this if they sell you one, as it really
makes a difference in comfort and safety as the stock setup offers
measly lever travel.

Sizing: if in doubt, size up. I've got a short inseam of around 33" for
a 6 footer, and my shop insisted on the 58, but I kindly demanded a
60cm. It fits like a glove--mind, I do have a long torso. Post is
extended enough to read the whole RL logo. It's still a good healthy
lean to the bars. If you buy this bike small, you'll be wanting a
higher rise stem.

All in all, Redline did well by this simple but smartly specced
machine. They do need to mount the brake levers properly is the main
thing. I hear folks claim that the Nitto bars are far more comfy than
the moustache bars on this bike. Nope, they're almost identical, but
the brake levers come too far outboard from the factory is all.

Big thumbs up. Only major thing I would have changed are using
semi-horizontal rear drops to make wheel removal simple. Track style
dropouts are fashionable, with their rockin' chain tugs and all, but
quite dumb when you're using a rear brake. I can live with that.

One thing about the 2006 is that the cog seemed to be a pretty low end
one. Low end track cogs have a tendency to cause spontaneously stripped
threads on the hub or cog, but I didn't hear about this happening on
any 925s. Any comments on the apparent quality of the cog on this bike?

landotter said:

Finally, after 7 weeks, the dang thing came. Of course on the stormiest
of nasty days. Gave me the patience to dial it in at least.

Everything on it is good quality for starters. Nothing is skimpy
feeling. Stuff like house branded post and Alex rims are
inexpensive--but it's a two bolt post and double wall eyeletted rim
regardless. Tektro brakes are fantastic, I don't care if they're
inexpensive. Super feel, and stopped with aplomb in this downpour.
Frame welds are small and neat, and the paint looks to be very decent,
fading from black to grey. Two bottles of touch up paint, black and
grey are included. Fenders are top notch Planet Bike. Hubs are value
Formulas w/o labeling, and smooooth. Crankset is a FSA with bmx sized
rings, so cheap to replace. Pedals are Wellgo, but the model that comes
with the non-cubical bearings, plenty smooth. Mini-clips are a matter
of personal taste. The included chainguard is next to invisible, and if
you run it fixed, a super safety device, if a bit Fredly. Mine's
staying on. Finally, the included saddle feels suspiciously like a
rebadged or cloned WTB. It's narrow, and a bit squishy--but seems
perfect for sub ten mile urban rides. The ladies will deffo need a
wider saddle.

Shortfalls: moustache bars on this thing are set up like [censored] in my
experience and on all the photos I've seen on the net. Most shops set
the bars with too much angle, but you want almost flat with just a
slight downward lean on the flats. The brake levers are completely set
up wrong. Redline should deal with this on the production line. I
unwrapped the bars and slid them a few centimeters inward. The clamp
needs to be at the center of or a little towards the stem in relation
to the curve. Angle works best flat or very slightly down with the
hoods. Making them right makes the cables too long, so I've left mine
exiting the tape at the lever, not the stem, till I can shorten the
housings. Have your shop fix this if they sell you one, as it really
makes a difference in comfort and safety as the stock setup offers
measly lever travel.

Sizing: if in doubt, size up. I've got a short inseam of around 33" for
a 6 footer, and my shop insisted on the 58, but I kindly demanded a
60cm. It fits like a glove--mind, I do have a long torso. Post is
extended enough to read the whole RL logo. It's still a good healthy
lean to the bars. If you buy this bike small, you'll be wanting a
higher rise stem.

All in all, Redline did well by this simple but smartly specced
machine. They do need to mount the brake levers properly is the main
thing. I hear folks claim that the Nitto bars are far more comfy than
the moustache bars on this bike. Nope, they're almost identical, but
the brake levers come too far outboard from the factory is all.

Big thumbs up. Only major thing I would have changed are using
semi-horizontal rear drops to make wheel removal simple. Track style
dropouts are fashionable, with their rockin' chain tugs and all, but
quite dumb when you're using a rear brake. I can live with that.

Thanks for the review, I love the look of this bike with the moustache
bars. I've never ridden with a pair, but would like to give them a try
sometimes. How do they compare to a regular drop bar for things like
climbing and riding out of the saddle?

Smokey

Smokey said:

Thanks for the review, I love the look of this bike with the moustache
bars. I've never ridden with a pair, but would like to give them a try
sometimes. How do they compare to a regular drop bar for things like
climbing and riding out of the saddle?

If you wanted to try moustache bars on the cheap, Nashbar has polished
steel ones with a 25.4mm clamp area (you'd probably want a shorter reach
stem than what you'd normally use with drop bars anyway if you don't
have a 25.4mm stem) for $15 at the moment. I have both the 52cm and
56cm wide ones. The latter are *huge* both in width and reach.

On my fixed gear bike (a Bridgestone MB-6 setup for road use), I find
the 52cm bars OK for out of the saddle climbing with my hands on the
flats, though I think they're a little too wide overall (I normally use
46cm wide drop bars, though I think I'll eventually settle on 44cm bars).

--
I do not accept unsolicited commercial e-mail. Remove NO_UCE for
legitimate replies.

landotter said:

Big thumbs up. Only major thing I would have changed are using
semi-horizontal rear drops to make wheel removal simple. Track style
dropouts are fashionable, with their rockin' chain tugs and all, but
quite dumb when you're using a rear brake. I can live with that.

Same here with my One-Way. I'm thinking I will get a chaintug for it.

Another poster asked about cheap cogs. My One-Way doesn't seem to have
a very nice fixed cog, so I'll be upgrading that soon - though my main
reason is that I'd like a different gearing.

--
Paul M. Hobson
Georgia Institute of Technology
..:change the f to ph to reply:.

Smokey said:

Thanks for the review, I love the look of this bike with the moustache
bars. I've never ridden with a pair, but would like to give them a try
sometimes. How do they compare to a regular drop bar for things like
climbing and riding out of the saddle?

Smokey

I don't know about for long distance, for that I'd probably prefer
drops, but for the four city utility trips I took last evening,
moustache bars are incredibly comfy. At least three distinct hand
positions. Superb for out of saddle work, btw. Just set them up
correctly.

aebike.com has the Dimension clones for $23, totally worth a try:

http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30&action=details&sku=HB2085

Moustache bar setup:
http://www.stanford.edu/~dru/moustache.html

Skip the "vestigal levers" unless you're truly bored out of your mind.
The location illustrated for the primary levers is spot on in my
opinion.

Nate Knutson said:

One thing about the 2006 is that the cog seemed to be a pretty low end
one. Low end track cogs have a tendency to cause spontaneously stripped
threads on the hub or cog, but I didn't hear about this happening on
any 925s. Any comments on the apparent quality of the cog on this bike?

Compared to the Shimano DX on my other bike, it's visually a Clay Aiken
compared to the thick and no-nonsense DX's Ron Jeremy-ness. It's
something like half as wide, and chromed. My X-ray vision is a bit
gimpy, so can't comment on the threads or lockring.

In article <[email hidden]>,

landotter said:

Moustache bar setup:
http://www.stanford.edu/~dru/moustache.html

Which, I realized, hasn't been updated in a very long time. It now has
the correct mailing address for Rivendell (but the href was probably all
anyone ever used), and notes on the Nashbar, Redline and On-One
moustache bars.

Quoted message said:

Skip the "vestigal levers" unless you're truly bored out of your mind.
The location illustrated for the primary levers is spot on in my
opinion.

Do you mean skip the dummy levers entirely? I don't see too many people
using them, but they do provide a nice alternate hand location, provided
you can ride with your hands so close to the stem. Of course, they also
provide a nice way to injure yourself, as they can get pretty close to
the knees, depending on how you ride.

If I rode the XO-1 much, I'd get a new stem with a longer quill (too old
to care about aerodynamics vs. a comfortable back), and then the dummy
levers might not be as useful. As I have it now, they get me a little
more upright by bringing my hands closer.

Drew

--
Drew W. Saunders

dru (at) stanford (dot) eee dee you

Drew Saunders said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

landotter said:

Moustache bar setup:
http://www.stanford.edu/~dru/moustache.html

Which, I realized, hasn't been updated in a very long time. It now has
the correct mailing address for Rivendell (but the href was probably all
anyone ever used), and notes on the Nashbar, Redline and On-One
moustache bars.

There's also the Dimension bars which retail for $23 at aebike.com

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Skip the "vestigal levers" unless you're truly bored out of your mind.
The location illustrated for the primary levers is spot on in my
opinion.

Do you mean skip the dummy levers entirely? I don't see too many people
using them, but they do provide a nice alternate hand location, provided
you can ride with your hands so close to the stem. Of course, they also
provide a nice way to injure yourself, as they can get pretty close to
the knees, depending on how you ride.

It's purely aesthetic. Makes me wince. Sort of like trekking bars which
turn any bike in to a YMCA stair climber. I can get pretty aero on the
hoods when they're properly set up so no major deal, and this is a
short distance bike anyway.

I do think Redline makes themselves look bad with improper brake lever
installation out of the box, as most wrenches out there aren't familiar
with moustache bar setup. My bike also came with the sorta lame Kenda
Cosmos tires as well, instead of the specced IRC Tandem. I mean, the
Kendas are so lame they come specced on unicycles and I can't find them
on an English language site. No rim decals either. They look like the
specced rims, but can't be sure. Small complaints considering the price
of course.

Victor Kan said:

If you wanted to try moustache bars on the cheap, Nashbar has polished
steel ones with a 25.4mm clamp area (you'd probably want a shorter reach
stem than what you'd normally use with drop bars anyway if you don't
have a 25.4mm stem) for $15 at the moment. I have both the 52cm and
56cm wide ones. The latter are *huge* both in width and reach.

And I've got a pair I'm not using which I will mail to anyone who will
reciprocate with a package of books in English. 😉

-M

In article <[email hidden]>,

landotter said:

Drew Saunders said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

landotter said:

Moustache bar setup:
http://www.stanford.edu/~dru/moustache.html

Quoted message said:

There's also the Dimension bars which retail for $23 at aebike.com

Found them. The web page says "Compatible with road levers, not
compatible with bar end shifters." So I guess they're for downtube
shifters, or single-speeds, or maybe Ergo, but why not get the Nitto if
you have Ergo? Anyway, I put the link on the page, for those interested.
Thanks for the heads-up.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Skip the "vestigal levers" unless you're truly bored out of your mind.
The location illustrated for the primary levers is spot on in my
opinion.

Do you mean skip the dummy levers entirely? I don't see too many people
using them, but they do provide a nice alternate hand location, provided
you can ride with your hands so close to the stem. Of course, they also
provide a nice way to injure yourself, as they can get pretty close to
the knees, depending on how you ride.

It's purely aesthetic. Makes me wince. Sort of like trekking bars which
turn any bike in to a YMCA stair climber. I can get pretty aero on the
hoods when they're properly set up so no major deal, and this is a
short distance bike anyway.

I see. They are quite handy, if you don't mind putting 4 brake levers on
one handlebar, but I can see why they're not so popular.

Quoted message said:

I do think Redline makes themselves look bad with improper brake lever
installation out of the box, as most wrenches out there aren't familiar
with moustache bar setup.

Yes, but since there's so many ways to set up M-bars, and everyone's
going to be a bit different, I think they should offer to let the
customer ride a bit, fiddle and tweak, then wrap (or re-wrap) them once
they're set up. I've seen people with the brake levers much closer, or
much further apart. Then there's the whole issue of brake lever angle, I
happen to tilt them down a bit to get them where my (admittedly very
large) hands like them best, etc.

Drew

--
Drew W. Saunders

dru (at) stanford (dot) eee dee you

Drew Saunders said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"landotter" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I do think Redline makes themselves look bad with improper brake lever
installation out of the box, as most wrenches out there aren't familiar
with moustache bar setup.

Yes, but since there's so many ways to set up M-bars, and everyone's
going to be a bit different, I think they should offer to let the
customer ride a bit, fiddle and tweak, then wrap (or re-wrap) them once
they're set up. I've seen people with the brake levers much closer, or
much further apart. Then there's the whole issue of brake lever angle, I
happen to tilt them down a bit to get them where my (admittedly very
large) hands like them best, etc.

Just curious: Have (any of) you ever tried putting time-trial(??) style
brake levers that go in bull-horn type bars in the ends of mustache
bars? That'd seem to be a pretty nice place to have them, but I never
seen that done. Is there a reason it's not favorable?
\\paul

--
Paul M. Hobson
Georgia Institute of Technology
..:change the f to ph to reply:.

Drew Saunders said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

landotter said:

Drew Saunders said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"landotter" <[email hidden]> wrote:

> Moustache bar setup:
> http://www.stanford.edu/~dru/moustache.html
>

Quoted message said:

There's also the Dimension bars which retail for $23 at aebike.com

Found them. The web page says "Compatible with road levers, not
compatible with bar end shifters." So I guess they're for downtube
shifters, or single-speeds, or maybe Ergo, but why not get the Nitto if
you have Ergo? Anyway, I put the link on the page, for those interested.
Thanks for the heads-up.

yeah, they're not of the same finish and prettiness of the Nittos' but
great for somebody that's putting together something on the cheap, or
doesn't want to commit $60 to find out they hate them. I love them btw,
the only thing I might change is adding a second layer of cork tape to
the flats..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Skip the "vestigal levers" unless you're truly bored out of your mind.
> The location illustrated for the primary levers is spot on in my
> opinion.

Do you mean skip the dummy levers entirely? I don't see too many people
using them, but they do provide a nice alternate hand location, provided
you can ride with your hands so close to the stem. Of course, they also
provide a nice way to injure yourself, as they can get pretty close to
the knees, depending on how you ride.

It's purely aesthetic. Makes me wince. Sort of like trekking bars which
turn any bike in to a YMCA stair climber. I can get pretty aero on the
hoods when they're properly set up so no major deal, and this is a
short distance bike anyway.

I see. They are quite handy, if you don't mind putting 4 brake levers on
one handlebar, but I can see why they're not so popular.

Quoted message said:

I do think Redline makes themselves look bad with improper brake lever
installation out of the box, as most wrenches out there aren't familiar
with moustache bar setup.

Yes, but since there's so many ways to set up M-bars, and everyone's
going to be a bit different, I think they should offer to let the
customer ride a bit, fiddle and tweak, then wrap (or re-wrap) them once
they're set up. I've seen people with the brake levers much closer, or
much further apart. Then there's the whole issue of brake lever angle, I
happen to tilt them down a bit to get them where my (admittedly very
large) hands like them best, etc.

I found mine to want to be about the same as yours, with the levers
slightly down, and favoring a comfy hood position to a perfectly
ergonomic braking posiition. My main beef with them as the factory set
them up was that it critically reduced lever travel, and riding the
hoods was pretty much impossible. It also looked goofy to my eyes, but
that's a whole other ball of yarn...

Thanks for the page, it's a nice resource to keep from duplicating
information.

Paul Hobson said:

Drew Saunders said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"landotter" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I do think Redline makes themselves look bad with improper brake lever
installation out of the box, as most wrenches out there aren't familiar
with moustache bar setup.

Yes, but since there's so many ways to set up M-bars, and everyone's
going to be a bit different, I think they should offer to let the
customer ride a bit, fiddle and tweak, then wrap (or re-wrap) them once
they're set up. I've seen people with the brake levers much closer, or
much further apart. Then there's the whole issue of brake lever angle, I
happen to tilt them down a bit to get them where my (admittedly very
large) hands like them best, etc.

Just curious: Have (any of) you ever tried putting time-trial(??) style
brake levers that go in bull-horn type bars in the ends of mustache
bars? That'd seem to be a pretty nice place to have them, but I never
seen that done. Is there a reason it's not favorable?

Reading my mind, Paul, I was just thinking that when sitting in traffic
a bit ago. I saw this on the now defunct momovelo.com site. Looks
really snazzy and clean. I think the bike was called the "cheeseboard"
or something. Beautiful bikes, but I heard he was a bit of an eccentric
with the service. Shame I didn't archive the pictures from the site,
some pretty idiosyncratic and sexy bikes.

Paul Hobson said:

Drew Saunders said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"landotter" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I do think Redline makes themselves look bad with improper brake lever
installation out of the box, as most wrenches out there aren't familiar
with moustache bar setup.

Yes, but since there's so many ways to set up M-bars, and everyone's
going to be a bit different, I think they should offer to let the
customer ride a bit, fiddle and tweak, then wrap (or re-wrap) them once
they're set up. I've seen people with the brake levers much closer, or
much further apart. Then there's the whole issue of brake lever angle, I
happen to tilt them down a bit to get them where my (admittedly very
large) hands like them best, etc.

Just curious: Have (any of) you ever tried putting time-trial(??) style
brake levers that go in bull-horn type bars in the ends of mustache
bars? That'd seem to be a pretty nice place to have them, but I never
seen that done. Is there a reason it's not favorable?

Reading my mind, Paul, I was just thinking that when sitting in traffic
a bit ago. I saw this on the now defunct momovelo.com site. Looks
really snazzy and clean. I think the bike was called the "cheeseboard"
or something. Beautiful bikes, but I heard he was a bit of an eccentric
with the service. Shame I didn't archive the pictures from the site,
some pretty idiosyncratic and sexy bikes.

landotter said:

Paul Hobson wrote:

Reading my mind, Paul, I was just thinking that when sitting in traffic
a bit ago. I saw this on the now defunct momovelo.com site. Looks
really snazzy and clean. I think the bike was called the "cheeseboard"
or something. Beautiful bikes, but I heard he was a bit of an eccentric
with the service. Shame I didn't archive the pictures from the site,
some pretty idiosyncratic and sexy bikes.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/contest/2003/odlandx200.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/contest/2003/index.html&h=141&w=200&sz=10&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=AD1PGQrtfgs4wM:&tbnh=73&tbnw=104&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmomovelo%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Drew Saunders said:

Quoted message said:

Moustache bar setup:
http://www.stanford.edu/~dru/moustache.html

Which, I realized, hasn't been updated in a very long time. It now has
the correct mailing address for Rivendell (but the href was probably all
anyone ever used), and notes on the Nashbar, Redline and On-One
moustache bars.

Drew

Drew, looks like you've put a fair amount of effort into researching
moustache bars. Do you, or does anyone else, know if there exists a
moustache bar that has a 25.4mm (1"😉 clamp diameter, and accepts brake
levers with 22.2mm (7/8"😉 MTB-type clamps, rather than 23.8mm (15/16"😉
road-type clamps? Such a version would be useful for converting an
existing flat-bar MTB, especially one with standard V-brakes. All the
moustache bars I've seen online were for 23.8mm brake levers, although
both 25.4mm and 26.0mm stem clamp diameters are available.

If there's no such thing, perhaps it's because MTB-type (22.2mm) brake
levers generally don't have hoods, and would make some of the hand
positions uncomfortable or useless?

Thanks,
Stephen

In article <[email hidden]>,

Stephen Greenwood said:

Drew Saunders said:

Quoted message said:

Moustache bar setup:
http://www.stanford.edu/~dru/moustache.html

Which, I realized, hasn't been updated in a very long time. It now has
the correct mailing address for Rivendell (but the href was probably all
anyone ever used), and notes on the Nashbar, Redline and On-One
moustache bars.

Drew

Drew, looks like you've put a fair amount of effort into researching
moustache bars. Do you, or does anyone else, know if there exists a
moustache bar that has a 25.4mm (1"😉 clamp diameter, and accepts brake
levers with 22.2mm (7/8"😉 MTB-type clamps, rather than 23.8mm (15/16"😉
road-type clamps? Such a version would be useful for converting an
existing flat-bar MTB, especially one with standard V-brakes. All the
moustache bars I've seen online were for 23.8mm brake levers, although
both 25.4mm and 26.0mm stem clamp diameters are available.

If there's no such thing, perhaps it's because MTB-type (22.2mm) brake
levers generally don't have hoods, and would make some of the hand
positions uncomfortable or useless?

Thanks,
Stephen

There was one, made by Hsing Lung, for certain Bridgestone XO bikes
other (XO-3 I think, maybe XO-4, the old catalogs are at home) back in
'93 or '92, that took MTB brake levers and probably had a 25.4mm clamp.
Good luck finding some of those. I don't know of any others that have
been made since to fit that setup.

The brake levers were placed towards the ends, and were matched with
thumb shifters and MTB style grips. The Albatross/Dove bars do a better
job of providing this hand position:

http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/handlebars_stems_tape/

Drew

--
Drew W. Saunders

dru (at) stanford (dot) eee dee you