2008 Ftp?

KP....................265W.......48.5kg.... 5.46W/kg(olympic bound female MTBer)
Squint...............332W.......63.5 kg...5.22 W/kg
Markster............352W......69kg......5.10 W/kg
BullGod...............340W (KK)69kg......4.9W/Kg (elite, Benelux)
Piotr..................260W.......54kg......4.81W/kg (M35+, Cat III, Utah)
rmur(Mar.08).......410W.......86kg......4.77 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
Midbunchlurker....290w.......61.5kg....4.72W/Kg (35-39, Cape Town, SA)
PSUcycling..........315W.......67kg......4.70w/kg (26,cat 1,Tx)
rmur(Feb.08).......395W.......87kg......4.54 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
doctorSpoc.........250W.......55kg......4.5W/kg (M1/MB Ontario)
esammuli............292W......65.5kg.....4.46 W/kg (Cat IV, SoCal, soon to be Cat III)
strader...............285W.......66.5kg......4.28W/kg (Cat V, Sport MTB)
bbrauer..............290W.......68kg.......4.26W/kg
Ade Merckx.........300W (KK)72kg.......4.16W/Kg (UK 3rd cat)
waterrockets.......335W.......80.9kg....4.14W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
bigbadwoulfe.......298W.......72.0kg....4.13W/kg (Not yet a racer but will be beginner this April)
Miscreant............260W.......63.5kg....4.09W/kg (Cat 5,new to racing)
tonyzackery........340W.......86kg.......3.95W/kg
ctgt...................270W.......70kg......3.94W/kg (M2 Ontario, previously S4, mostly Citizen MTB)
Betulla ...............269W.......70kg......3.85W/kg (Cat V, Ohio, training for the 2008 Etape)
No1kung1.............294W......77kg.......3.82W/kg (Cat 3, NYC)
Millzebub..............310W......86kg......3.6W/kg (Cat 5, new racer, 36, oakland, ca)
dkrenik................250W.......78.9kg....3.17W/kg (4erver4, M45+, Colorado)
RJBTrek...............230W.......86kg.......2.67W/kg (Cat 5, Chicago, 47, new to racing)
Alex Simmons......130W.......95kg.......1.4W/kg (estimate only. M 40+ recovering from injury, Sydney, Aust.)

updated...

KP....................265W.......48.5kg.... 5.46W/kg(olympic bound female MTBer)
Squint...............332W.......63.5 kg...5.22 W/kg
Markster............352W......69kg......5.10 W/kg
BullGod...............340W (KK)69kg......4.9W/Kg (elite, Benelux)
Piotr..................260W.......54kg......4.81W/kg (M35+, Cat III, Utah)
rmur(Mar.08).......410W.......86kg......4.77 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
Midbunchlurker....290w.......61.5kg....4.72W/Kg (35-39, Cape Town, SA)
PSUcycling..........315W.......67kg......4.70w/kg (26,cat 1,Tx)
rmur(Feb.08).......395W.......87kg......4.54 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
doctorSpoc.........250W.......55kg......4.5W/kg (M1/MB Ontario)
esammuli............292W......65.5kg.....4.46 W/kg (Cat IV, SoCal, soon to be Cat III)
strader...............285W.......66.5kg......4.28W/kg (Cat V, Sport MTB)
bbrauer..............290W.......68kg.......4.26W/kg
waterrockets.......345W.......80.9kg....4.26W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
Ade Merckx.........300W (KK)72kg.......4.16W/Kg (UK 3rd cat)
bigbadwoulfe.......298W.......72.0kg....4.13W/kg (Not yet a racer but will be beginner this April)
Miscreant............260W.......63.5kg....4.09W/kg (Cat 5,new to racing)
tonyzackery........340W.......86kg.......3.95W/kg
ctgt...................270W.......70kg......3.94W/kg (M2 Ontario, previously S4, mostly Citizen MTB)
Betulla ...............269W.......70kg......3.85W/kg (Cat V, Ohio, training for the 2008 Etape)
No1kung1.............294W......77kg.......3.82W/kg (Cat 3, NYC)
Millzebub..............310W......86kg......3.6W/kg (Cat 5, new racer, 36, oakland, ca)
dkrenik................250W.......78.9kg....3.17W/kg (4erver4, M45+, Colorado)
RJBTrek...............230W.......86kg.......2.67W/kg (Cat 5, Chicago, 47, new to racing)
Alex Simmons......130W.......95kg.......1.4W/kg (estimate only. M 40+ recovering from injury, Sydney, Aust.)

still gaining a bit

update again...

KP....................265W.......48.5kg.... 5.46W/kg(olympic bound female MTBer)
Squint...............332W.......63.5 kg...5.22 W/kg
BullGod...............340W (KK)69kg......4.9W/Kg (elite, Benelux)
Markster............344W......71kg.......4.85W/kg
Piotr..................260W.......54kg......4.81W/kg (M35+, Cat III, Utah)
PSUcycling..........322W.......67kg......4.80w/kg (cat 1,Tx, peak in ~april)
rmur(Mar.08)....410W......86kg......4.77 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
Midbunchlurker....290w.......61.5kg....4.72W/Kg (35-39, Cape Town, SA)
doctorSpoc.........250W.......55kg......4.5W/kg (M1/MB Ontario)
esammuli............292W......65.5kg.....4.46 W/kg (Cat IV, SoCal, soon to be Cat III)
strader...............285W.......66.5kg......4.28W/kg (Cat V, Sport MTB)
bbrauer..............290W.......68kg.......4.26W/kg
Ade Merckx.........300W (KK)72kg.......4.16W/Kg (UK 3rd cat)
waterrockets.......335W.......80.9kg....4.14W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
bigbadwoulfe.......298W.......72.0kg....4.13W/kg (Not yet a racer but will be beginner this April)
Miscreant............260W.......63.5kg....4.09W/kg (Cat 5,new to racing)
tonyzackery........340W.......86kg.......3.95W/kg
ctgt...................270W.......70kg......3.94W/kg (M2 Ontario, previously S4, mostly Citizen MTB)
Betulla ...............269W.......70kg......3.85W/kg (Cat V, Ohio, training for the 2008 Etape)
No1kung1..........294W.....77kg.........3.82W/kg (Cat 3, NYC)
Millzebub.............310W.......86kg......3.6W/kg (Cat 5, new racer, 36, oakland, ca)
dkrenik...............250W.......78.9kg....3.17W/kg (4erver4, M45+, Colorado)
RJBTrek..............230W.......86kg.......2.67W/kg (Cat 5, Chicago, 47, new to racing)
Alex Simmons......130W.......95kg.......1.4W/kg (estimate only. M 40+ recovering from injury, Sydney, Aust.)

PSUcycling said:

update again...

KP....................265W.......48.5kg.... 5.46W/kg(olympic bound female MTBer)
Squint...............332W.......63.5 kg...5.22 W/kg
BullGod...............340W (KK)69kg......4.9W/Kg (elite, Benelux)
Markster............344W......71kg.......4.85W/kg
Piotr..................260W.......54kg......4.81W/kg (M35+, Cat III, Utah)
PSUcycling..........322W.......67kg......4.80w/kg (cat 1,Tx, peak in ~april)
rmur(Mar.08)....410W......86kg......4.77 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
Midbunchlurker....290w.......61.5kg....4.72W/Kg (35-39, Cape Town, SA)
doctorSpoc.........250W.......55kg......4.5W/kg (M1/MB Ontario)
esammuli............292W......65.5kg.....4.46 W/kg (Cat IV, SoCal, soon to be Cat III)
strader...............285W.......66.5kg......4.28W/kg (Cat V, Sport MTB)
bbrauer..............290W.......68kg.......4.26W/kg
Ade Merckx.........300W (KK)72kg.......4.16W/Kg (UK 3rd cat)
waterrockets.......335W.......80.9kg....4.14W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
bigbadwoulfe.......298W.......72.0kg....4.13W/kg (Not yet a racer but will be beginner this April)
Miscreant............260W.......63.5kg....4.09W/kg (Cat 5,new to racing)
tonyzackery........340W.......86kg.......3.95W/kg
ctgt...................270W.......70kg......3.94W/kg (M2 Ontario, previously S4, mostly Citizen MTB)
Betulla ...............269W.......70kg......3.85W/kg (Cat V, Ohio, training for the 2008 Etape)
No1kung1..........294W.....77kg.........3.82W/kg (Cat 3, NYC)
Millzebub.............310W.......86kg......3.6W/kg (Cat 5, new racer, 36, oakland, ca)
dkrenik...............250W.......78.9kg....3.17W/kg (4erver4, M45+, Colorado)
RJBTrek..............230W.......86kg.......2.67W/kg (Cat 5, Chicago, 47, new to racing)
Alex Simmons......130W.......95kg.......1.4W/kg (estimate only. M 40+ recovering from injury, Sydney, Aust.)

keep up the good work 🙂 ! But you didn't copy the latest list when you posted. Could you correct that please?

rmur17 said:

keep up the good work 🙂 ! But you didn't copy the latest list when you posted. Could you correct that please?

whoops!

KP....................265W.......48.5kg.... 5.46W/kg(olympic bound female MTBer)
Squint...............332W.......63.5 kg...5.22 W/kg
Markster............352W......69kg......5.10 W/kg
BullGod...............340W (KK)69kg......4.9W/Kg (elite, Benelux)
Piotr..................260W.......54kg......4.81W/kg (M35+, Cat III, Utah)
PSUcycling..........322W.......67kg......4.80w/kg (26,cat 1,Tx)
rmur(Mar.08).......410W.......86kg......4.77 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
Midbunchlurker....290w.......61.5kg....4.72W/Kg (35-39, Cape Town, SA)
rmur(Feb.08).......395W.......87kg......4.54 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
doctorSpoc.........250W.......55kg......4.5W/kg (M1/MB Ontario)
esammuli............292W......65.5kg.....4.46 W/kg (Cat IV, SoCal, soon to be Cat III)
strader...............285W.......66.5kg......4.28W/kg (Cat V, Sport MTB)
bbrauer..............290W.......68kg.......4.26W/kg
waterrockets.......345W.......80.9kg....4.26W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
Ade Merckx.........300W (KK)72kg.......4.16W/Kg (UK 3rd cat)
bigbadwoulfe.......298W.......72.0kg....4.13W/kg (Not yet a racer but will be beginner this April)
Miscreant............260W.......63.5kg....4.09W/kg (Cat 5,new to racing)
tonyzackery........340W.......86kg.......3.95W/kg
ctgt...................270W.......70kg......3.94W/kg (M2 Ontario, previously S4, mostly Citizen MTB)
Betulla ...............269W.......70kg......3.85W/kg (Cat V, Ohio, training for the 2008 Etape)
No1kung1.............294W......77kg.......3.82W/kg (Cat 3, NYC)
Millzebub..............310W......86kg......3.6W/kg (Cat 5, new racer, 36, oakland, ca)
dkrenik................250W.......78.9kg....3.17W/kg (4erver4, M45+, Colorado)
RJBTrek...............230W.......86kg.......2.67W/kg (Cat 5, Chicago, 47, new to racing)
Alex Simmons......130W.......95kg.......1.4W/kg (estimate only. M 40+ recovering from injury, Sydney, Aust.)

Can't wait for the weather to improve so I can get some time on the road....

12 - 23 cm of snow for tomorrow....😠

KP....................265W.......48.5kg.... 5.46W/kg(olympic bound female MTBer)
Squint...............332W.......63.5 kg...5.22 W/kg
Markster............352W......69kg......5.10 W/kg
BullGod...............340W (KK)69kg......4.9W/Kg (elite, Benelux)
Piotr..................260W.......54kg......4.81W/kg (M35+, Cat III, Utah)
PSUcycling..........322W.......67kg......4.80w/kg (26,cat 1,Tx)
rmur(Mar.08).......410W.......86kg......4.77 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
Midbunchlurker....290w.......61.5kg....4.72W/Kg (35-39, Cape Town, SA)
rmur(Feb.08).......395W.......87kg......4.54 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
doctorSpoc.........250W.......55kg......4.5W/kg (M1/MB Ontario)
esammuli............292W......65.5kg.....4.46 W/kg (Cat IV, SoCal, soon to be Cat III)
strader...............285W.......66.5kg......4.28W/kg (Cat V, Sport MTB)
bbrauer..............290W.......68kg.......4.26W/kg
waterrockets.......345W.......80.9kg....4.26W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
Ade Merckx.........300W (KK)72kg.......4.16W/Kg (UK 3rd cat)
bigbadwoulfe.......298W.......72.0kg....4.13W/kg (Not yet a racer but will be beginner this April)
Miscreant............260W.......63.5kg....4.09W/kg (Cat 5,new to racing)
tonyzackery........340W.......86kg.......3.95W/kg
ctgt...................270W.......70kg......3.94W/kg (M2 Ontario, previously S4, mostly Citizen MTB)
Betulla ...............269W.......70kg......3.85W/kg (Cat V, Ohio, training for the 2008 Etape)
Hammertoe.......242W......63kg......3.84W/kg (middle aged, well marbled, hill climber)
No1kung1.............294W......77kg.......3.82W/kg (Cat 3, NYC)
Millzebub..............310W......86kg......3.6W/kg (Cat 5, new racer, 36, oakland, ca)
dkrenik................250W.......78.9kg....3.17W/kg (4erver4, M45+, Colorado)
RJBTrek...............230W.......86kg.......2.67W/kg (Cat 5, Chicago, 47, new to racing)
Alex Simmons......130W.......95kg.......1.4W/kg (estimate only. M 40+ recovering from injury, Sydney, Aust.)

6 weeks of training ....FTP +13 but did not lose the weight I was hoping to lose -2lbs

KP....................265W.......48.5kg.... 5.46W/kg(olympic bound female MTBer)
Squint...............332W.......63.5 kg...5.22 W/kg
Markster............352W......69kg......5.10 W/kg
BullGod...............340W (KK)69kg......4.9W/Kg (elite, Benelux)
Piotr..................260W.......54kg......4.81W/kg (M35+, Cat III, Utah)
PSUcycling..........322W.......67kg......4.80w/kg (26,cat 1,Tx)
rmur(Mar.08).......410W.......86kg......4.77 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
Midbunchlurker....290w.......61.5kg....4.72W/Kg (35-39, Cape Town, SA)
rmur(Feb.08).......395W.......87kg......4.54 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
doctorSpoc.........250W.......55kg......4.5W/kg (M1/MB Ontario)
esammuli............292W......65.5kg.....4.46 W/kg (Cat IV, SoCal, soon to be Cat III)
strader...............285W.......66.5kg......4.28W/kg (Cat V, Sport MTB)
bbrauer..............290W.......68kg.......4.26W/kg
waterrockets.......345W.......80.9kg....4.26W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
Ade Merckx.........300W (KK)72kg.......4.16W/Kg (UK 3rd cat)
bigbadwoulfe.......298W.......72.0kg....4.13W/kg (Not yet a racer but will be beginner this April)
Miscreant............260W.......63.5kg....4.09W/kg (Cat 5,new to racing)
tonyzackery........340W.......86kg.......3.95W/kg
ctgt...................270W.......70kg......3.94W/kg (M2 Ontario, previously S4, mostly Citizen MTB)
Betulla ...............269W.......70kg......3.85W/kg (Cat V, Ohio, training for the 2008 Etape)
Hammertoe.......242W......63kg......3.84W/kg (middle aged, well marbled, hill climber)
No1kung1.............294W......77kg.......3.82W/kg (Cat 3, NYC)
Millzebub..............310W......86kg......3.6W/kg (Cat 5, new racer, 36, oakland, ca)
dkrenik................250W.......78.9kg....3.17W/kg (4erver4, M45+, Colorado)
RJBTrek...............243W.......85kg.......2.86W/kg (Cat 5, Chicago, 47, new to racing)
Alex Simmons......130W.......95kg.......1.4W/kg (estimate only. M 40+ recovering from injury, Sydney, Aust.)

KP....................265W.......48.5kg.... 5.46W/kg(olympic bound female MTBer)
Squint...............332W.......63.5 kg...5.22 W/kg
Markster............352W......69kg......5.10 W/kg
BullGod...............340W (KK)69kg......4.9W/Kg (elite, Benelux)
Piotr..................260W.......54kg......4.81W/kg (M35+, Cat III, Utah)
PSUcycling..........322W.......67kg......4.80w/kg (26,cat 1,Tx)
rmur(Mar.08).......410W.......86kg......4.77 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
Midbunchlurker....290w.......61.5kg....4.72W/Kg (35-39, Cape Town, SA)
rmur(Feb.08).......395W.......87kg......4.54 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
doctorSpoc.........250W.......55kg......4.5W/kg (M1/MB Ontario)
esammuli............292W......65.5kg.....4.46 W/kg (Cat IV, SoCal, soon to be Cat III)
strader...............285W.......66.5kg......4.28W/kg (Cat V, Sport MTB)
bbrauer..............290W.......68kg.......4.26W/kg
waterrockets.......345W.......80.9kg....4.26W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
Ade Merckx.........300W (KK)72kg.......4.16W/Kg (UK 3rd cat)
bigbadwoulfe.......298W.......72.0kg....4.13W/kg (Not yet a racer but will be beginner this April)
Miscreant............260W.......63.5kg....4.09W/kg (Cat 5,new to racing)
tonyzackery........340W.......86kg.......3.95W/kg
ctgt...................270W.......70kg......3.94W/kg (M2 Ontario, previously S4, mostly Citizen MTB)
Betulla ...............269W.......70kg......3.85W/kg (Cat V, Ohio, training for the 2008 Etape)
Hammertoe.......242W......63kg......3.84W/kg (middle aged, well marbled, hill climber)
No1kung1.............294W......77kg.......3.82W/kg (Cat 3, NYC)
Millzebub..............310W......86kg......3.6W/kg (Cat 5, new racer, 36, oakland, ca)
dkrenik................250W.......78.9kg....3.17W/kg (4erver4, M45+, Colorado)
RJBTrek...............243W.......85kg.......2.86W/kg (Cat 5, Chicago, 47, new to racing)
Alex Simmons......130W.......95kg.......1.4W/kg
Tyson.................315W......73kg........4.3W/Kg
(Sillyoldtwit)

The above slightly out of date, but will test again in June - anticipate it to be nearer 330W. Weight expected to drop dramatically in April/May ( Very long in the tooth recreational rider)

KP....................265W.......48.5kg.... 5.46W/kg(olympic bound female MTBer)
Squint...............332W.......63.5 kg...5.22 W/kg
Markster............352W......69kg......5.10 W/kg
BullGod...............340W (KK)69kg......4.9W/Kg (elite, Benelux)
Piotr..................260W.......54kg......4.81W/kg (M35+, Cat III, Utah)
PSUcycling..........322W.......67kg......4.80w/kg (26,cat 1,Tx)
rmur(Mar.08).......410W.......86kg......4.77 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
Midbunchlurker....290w.......61.5kg....4.72W/Kg (35-39, Cape Town, SA)
rmur(Feb.08).......395W.......87kg......4.54 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
doctorSpoc.........250W.......55kg......4.5W/kg (M1/MB Ontario)
esammuli............292W......65.5kg.....4.46 W/kg (Cat IV, SoCal, soon to be Cat III)
Tyson.................315W......73kg........4.3W/Kg (Sillyoldtwit)
strader...............285W.......66.5kg......4.28W/kg (Cat V, Sport MTB)
bbrauer..............290W.......68kg.......4.26W/kg
waterrockets.......345W.......80.9kg....4.26W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
Ade Merckx.........300W (KK)72kg.......4.16W/Kg (UK 3rd cat)
bigbadwoulfe.......298W.......72.0kg....4.13W/kg (Not yet a racer but will be beginner this April)
Miscreant............260W.......63.5kg....4.09W/kg (Cat 5,new to racing)
tonyzackery........340W.......86kg.......3.95W/kg
ctgt...................270W.......70kg......3.94W/kg (M2 Ontario, previously S4, mostly Citizen MTB)
Betulla ...............269W.......70kg......3.85W/kg (Cat V, Ohio, training for the 2008 Etape)
Hammertoe..........242W......63kg......3.84W/kg (middle aged, well marbled, hill climber)
No1kung1.............294W......77kg.......3.82W/kg (Cat 3, NYC)
Millzebub..............310W......86kg......3.6W/kg (Cat 5, new racer, 36, oakland, ca)
dkrenik................250W.......78.9kg....3.17W/kg (4erver4, M45+, Colorado)
RJBTrek...............243W.......85kg.......2.86W/kg (Cat 5, Chicago, 47, new to racing)
Alex Simmons......130W.......95kg.......1.4W/kg

Now Tyson you know better than getting things out of order. :p That FTP improvement is sensational, well done buddy.🙂

daveryanwyoming said:

The book was a collaboration, there's a lot of places where Hunter and Coggan don't necessarily see eye to eye. Based on Andy's comments here and elsewhere the 20 minute * 0.95 protocol(and don't skip the pre fatigue steps before the actual test) represent a method Hunter likes. FWIW my FTP has historically come closer to 0.98 * 20 minute MMP based on actual time trials, Monod tests and other methods on that list. That 3% difference in estimates doesn't sound like much but it's the difference between an FTP of ~295 watts and ~305 watts based on 310 for 20 minutes. Yeah 10 watts isn't going to make or break my training but it starts to matter as important time trials approach and I want to plan my pacing.

I'm with rmur, tracking long interval power is just part of training so that method doesn't require any special days set aside to test.

-Dave

But don't you think that you should set aside, as part of your training, a time to actually test?

The reason I bring this up is that after I left cycling for a decade or so, I ventured off into motorsports. Time was actually set aside for testing in addition to race time. You find out, in a controlled environment, exactly where you're at... You map out your year in advance and find a weekend or two during racing season to actually devote time to monitoring progress from work carried out on engine development, chassis and suspension work. If I'd broken this down whilst bike racing and had the tools that were available today then training would have been so much easier. Relying on results to guage training progress isn't alway the most accurate means available.

swampy1970 said:

But don't you think that you should set aside, as part of your training, a time to actually test?

The reason I bring this up is that after I left cycling for a decade or so, I ventured off into motorsports. Time was actually set aside for testing in addition to race time. You find out, in a controlled environment, exactly where you're at... You map out your year in advance and find a weekend or two during racing season to actually devote time to monitoring progress from work carried out on engine development, chassis and suspension work. If I'd broken this down whilst bike racing and had the tools that were available today then training would have been so much easier. Relying on results to guage training progress isn't alway the most accurate means available.

"Training is testing, testing is training." - Andy Coggan

Alex Simmons said:

"Training is testing, testing is training." - Andy Coggan

Yeah what he said about what he said....

But to be real clear. I do put aside test days occasionally but not very often and then it's typically a Monod style test. Ideally your FTP is continually climbing during the season making it a moving target. I know some folks that schedule a testing day every third week or so in hopes of pinning down that moving target.

I'd rather be training more than testing or at least use tests that provide decent training intensity and volume. Tracking long intervals and other methods that use existing training data don't interrupt training but you can still track changes in FTP. Sure a full blown test, ideally in the form of a 40k TT, is great from time to time and it can confirm what the other data suggests.

The thing about dedicated test days is that folks want to do well so they usually rest up a bit beforehand, IOW they taper for their tests. Then the tests themselves even if they feel hard like a full lab VO2 Max test to failure, don't necessarily provide that much training but folks are beat afterwards and tend not to follow it up with more time on the bike. So it can be a bit like entering race and recover mode, you back off prior to the test in hopes of good results, the test itself may be hard but probably not real long and then you try to resume regular training. Sure it's worth it from time to time but there are other ways to get good FTP estimates that don't interrupt your regular training.

-Dave

daveryanwyoming said:

Yeah what he said about what he said....

But to be real clear. I do put aside test days occasionally but not very often and then it's typically a Monod style test. Ideally your FTP is continually climbing during the season making it a moving target. I know some folks that schedule a testing day every third week or so in hopes of pinning down that moving target.

I'd rather be training more than testing or at least use tests that provide decent training intensity and volume. Tracking long intervals and other methods that use existing training data don't interrupt training but you can still track changes in FTP. Sure a full blown test, ideally in the form of a 40k TT, is great from time to time and it can confirm what the other data suggests.

The thing about dedicated test days is that folks want to do well so they usually rest up a bit beforehand, IOW they taper for their tests. Then the tests themselves even if they feel hard like a full lab VO2 Max test to failure, don't necessarily provide that much training but folks are beat afterwards and tend not to follow it up with more time on the bike. So it can be a bit like entering race and recover mode, you back off prior to the test in hopes of good results, the test itself may be hard but probably not real long and then you try to resume regular training. Sure it's worth it from time to time but there are other ways to get good FTP estimates that don't interrupt your regular training.

-Dave

Speaking of planning (or lack of planning) for a test. This Saturday I sat on the trainer intending to do some SST interspersed with L6 efforts (to punish myself for missing a crit 🙂). After a 10 min warmup I began at Tempo and proceeded to visualize myself in a race. Within a few minutes I was riding at my FTP... so I decided to continue for an hour :eek:. Despite not being overly fresh, a rather short warmup, a nasty side stitch half way through and taking a few minutes at low L3 to recover from it, my 1 hr NP came to just 3 W short of my current FTP. Since it was indoors and I didn't taper for it, nor was I super motivated, I'm happy with that result. I suspect my real FTP may be even higher now.

Oh, and after 5 min recovery I did 40 more minutes at L3. You're right Dave, you can't rest on your laurels after only 1000kJ of work and let a silly test interupt your training. Not on a Saturday. 😄

74kg...315ftp=4.25w/kg....new cat 3 racer...

Alex Simmons said:

"Training is testing, testing is training." - Andy Coggan

I'll agree to disagree on that statement.... 😉

daveryanwyoming said:

The book was a collaboration, there's a lot of places where Hunter and Coggan don't necessarily see eye to eye. Based on Andy's comments here and elsewhere the 20 minute * 0.95 protocol(and don't skip the pre fatigue steps before the actual test) represent a method Hunter likes. FWIW my FTP has historically come closer to 0.98 * 20 minute MMP based on actual time trials, Monod tests and other methods on that list. That 3% difference in estimates doesn't sound like much but it's the difference between an FTP of ~295 watts and ~305 watts based on 310 for 20 minutes. Yeah 10 watts isn't going to make or break my training but it starts to matter as important time trials approach and I want to plan my pacing.

I'm with rmur, tracking long interval power is just part of training so that method doesn't require any special days set aside to test.

-Dave

but why this fascination with 1 hr power?

unless i'm doing lots of 40k TTs all year, who the hell cares? seriously...

if i can get my FTP within 3-5%... i'd say you can approximate by 5-10W to set your training zones (which are approximations themselves... everyones actual zones will be slightly different than what is predicted by those zones) that's good enough.. really easy to know if you are off the mark because you just won't be able to complete it or it will be too easy.. so you adjust.. or use that Monod (sp) approximation etc

why not use your 20 min power as your test? people do those all the time so no special training/testing session is necessary and since it incorporates more anCap it's probably more indicative of all round road racing fitness... i use 20min and 10min power as well as just my perceived endurance performance for longer rides and day over day performance as my indication of fitness.. as well as plugging number into Mondo every so often

my interpretation is WAY too much over think here...

doctorSpoc said:

but why this fascination with 1 hr power?

unless i'm doing lots of 40k TTs all year, who the hell cares? seriously...

if i can get my FTP within 3-5%... i'd say you can approximate by 5-10W to set your training zones (which are approximations themselves... everyones actual zones will be slightly different than what is predicted by those zones) that's good enough.. really easy to know if you are off the mark because you just won't be able to complete it or it will be too easy.. so you adjust.. or use that Monod (sp) approximation etc

why not use your 20 min power as your test? people do those all the time so no special training/testing session is necessary and since it incorporates more anCap it's probably more indicative of all round road racing fitness... i use 20min and 10min power as well as just my perceived endurance performance for longer rides and day over day performance as my indication of fitness.. as well as plugging number into Mondo every so often

my interpretation is WAY too much over think here...

we are Borg. Be careful :p

rmur17 said:

we are Borg. Be careful :p

c'mon man, you are not Borg...

you're supposed to tell me how i'm going to be assimilated... and how my uniqueness will be incorporated into the collective and all that... Borg? yeah, right! 🙄

doctorSpoc said:

....my interpretation is WAY too much over think here...

Uhhh, because these are the Power Training forums. What should we be discussing, knitting?

-Dave
[edit]P.S. Actually I agree with you in terms of just tracking 20 minute or power for whatever you do as your regular long training intervals. It's my primary way of tracking fitness and I know it's rmur's as well, something he often refers to as "working power". So yeah we may be pretty anal but it sounds like we're using similar methods to track power progress....

doctorSpoc said:

why not use your 20 min power as your test?

Because 20 min (and even 30 min) is so short that the results can be significantly influenced by changes in anaerobic capacity as well as by changes in aerobic fitness. The result is that some people may be misled into training the wrong way, and/or not understanding the real relationship between how they train and changes (or not) in 20 (or 30 min) power. Indeed, even you seem to implicitly recognize this fact, in that you use the Monod approach to differentiate between changes in critical power and changes in anaerobic work capacity.