2008 Novara Strada opinions?

Woland99 said:

Howdy - I am trying to decide on my first decent road (or cyclocross)
bike
(have MTB and commuter one). Local REI bike shop was always kind to
me plus I can get the 20% off from $1100 price tag and use my REI
dividend
so final price would be about $870 (tax incl).
As I posted in separate thread - I am on heavier side (mid 200s) so I
am
a bit concern about the rims. I do not know much about components
but except for Tiagra brakes that seems like 105 bike (I include the
specs
below).
Comparing gearing 50/39/25 and 12/25 10 spd with eg. Bianchi Axis
26/36/48 and 11/32T 9spd it would seem that Bianchi would be much (?)
better climbing bike. Is that correct? Austin has a lot of hills so
that is
a bit of a concern.

TIA for any input/pointers/suggestion,

JT

PS. Novara Strada specs:
Frame 6061 Aluminum with carbon seatstays
Fork Aprebic EVO carbon
Crankset FSA Gossamer MegaExo Triple 50/39/30
Shifters Shimano 105
Brakes Shimano Tiagra
Brake levers Shimano 105
Front derailleur Shimano 105
Rear derailleur Shimano 105
Head set Integrated semi-cartridge
Bottom bracket FSA integrated cup bearings
Rear cog Shimano 105 12/25 10-speed
Front hub Shimano R500
Rear hub Shimano R500
Rims Shimano R500
Tires Vittoria Zaffiro Pro 700x25c
Stem Ritchey OE
Handlebar Ritchey Biomax OE
Seat post Ritchey OE
Saddle San Marco Ponza Lux
Pedals Sold separately
Chain Shimano 105

That looks like a nice bike with no obvious cheap-outs in the spec. If
you can get for $870 that sound good.

Those wheels are pretty nice, so if I were you I'd just ride them and
see if they are up to the task rather than spending money right off
the bat, and only replace if they break.

As far as gearing goes, a 30x25 is a very low gear. The Bianchi is a
cross bike meant to be taken off road where there are much steeper
hills so it has lower gearing.

As a test take your MTB out to some of the road hills you may ride and
try in a similar gear to the 30x25. to make sure. You can always buy a
slightly bigger cassette if the 30x25 is too hard.

Joseph

email hidden said:

Woland99 said:

Howdy - I am trying to decide on my first decent road (or cyclocross)
bike
(have MTB and commuter one). Local REI bike shop was always kind to
me plus I can get the 20% off from $1100 price tag and use my REI
dividend
so final price would be about $870 (tax incl).
As I posted in separate thread - I am on heavier side (mid 200s) so I
am
a bit concern about the rims. I do not know much about components
but except for Tiagra brakes that seems like 105 bike (I include the
specs
below).
Comparing gearing 50/39/25 and 12/25 10 spd with eg. Bianchi Axis
26/36/48 and 11/32T 9spd it would seem that Bianchi would be much (?)
better climbing bike. Is that correct? Austin has a lot of hills so
that is
a bit of a concern.

Quoted message said:

TIA for any input/pointers/suggestion,

Quoted message said:

JT

Quoted message said:

PS. Novara Strada specs:
Frame 6061 Aluminum with carbon seatstays
Fork Aprebic EVO carbon
Crankset FSA Gossamer MegaExo Triple 50/39/30
Shifters Shimano 105
Brakes Shimano Tiagra
Brake levers Shimano 105
Front derailleur Shimano 105
Rear derailleur Shimano 105
Head set Integrated semi-cartridge
Bottom bracket FSA integrated cup bearings
Rear cog Shimano 105 12/25 10-speed
Front hub Shimano R500
Rear hub Shimano R500
Rims Shimano R500
Tires Vittoria Zaffiro Pro 700x25c
Stem Ritchey OE
Handlebar Ritchey Biomax OE
Seat post Ritchey OE
Saddle San Marco Ponza Lux
Pedals Sold separately
Chain Shimano 105

That looks like a nice bike with no obvious cheap-outs in the spec. If
you can get for $870 that sound good.

Those wheels are pretty nice, so if I were you I'd just ride them and
see if they are up to the task rather than spending money right off
the bat, and only replace if they break.

As far as gearing goes, a 30x25 is a very low gear. The Bianchi is a
cross bike meant to be taken off road where there are much steeper
hills so it has lower gearing.

As a test take your MTB out to some of the road hills you may ride and
try in a similar gear to the 30x25. to make sure. You can always buy a
slightly bigger cassette if the 30x25 is too hard.

Joseph

Thanks for comments - I will take it for a spin but (as mentioned
in "max load"😉 thread I may decide to just get 27spd steel frame
touring type road bike. That way I a year or so if I go for a good
road bike (hopefully with less of weight related constraints) I will
be left with decent touring/commuter bike.
I will check Novara Randonee, Trek 520, Surly LHT, Bianchi Volpe and
perhaps Bianchi Eros.

Woland99 said:

On Feb 20, 2:52 am, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

On 19 Feb, 22:38, Woland99 <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Howdy - I am trying to decide on my first decent road (or cyclocross)
bike
(have MTB and commuter one). Local REI bike shop was always kind to
me plus I can get the 20% off from $1100 price tag and use my REI
dividend
so final price would be about $870 (tax incl).
As I posted in separate thread - I am on heavier side (mid 200s) so I
am
a bit concern about the rims. I do not know much about components
but except for Tiagra brakes that seems like 105 bike (I include the
specs
below).
Comparing gearing 50/39/25 and 12/25 10 spd with eg. Bianchi Axis
26/36/48 and 11/32T 9spd it would seem that Bianchi would be much (?)
better climbing bike. Is that correct? Austin has a lot of hills so
that is
a bit of a concern.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

TIA for any input/pointers/suggestion,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

JT

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

PS. Novara Strada specs:
Frame 6061 Aluminum with carbon seatstays
Fork Aprebic EVO carbon
Crankset FSA Gossamer MegaExo Triple 50/39/30
Shifters Shimano 105
Brakes Shimano Tiagra
Brake levers Shimano 105
Front derailleur Shimano 105
Rear derailleur Shimano 105
Head set Integrated semi-cartridge
Bottom bracket FSA integrated cup bearings
Rear cog Shimano 105 12/25 10-speed
Front hub Shimano R500
Rear hub Shimano R500
Rims Shimano R500
Tires Vittoria Zaffiro Pro 700x25c
Stem Ritchey OE
Handlebar Ritchey Biomax OE
Seat post Ritchey OE
Saddle San Marco Ponza Lux
Pedals Sold separately
Chain Shimano 105

Quoted message said:

That looks like a nice bike with no obvious cheap-outs in the spec. If
you can get for $870 that sound good.

Quoted message said:

Those wheels are pretty nice, so if I were you I'd just ride them and
see if they are up to the task rather than spending money right off
the bat, and only replace if they break.

Quoted message said:

As far as gearing goes, a 30x25 is a very low gear. The Bianchi is a
cross bike meant to be taken off road where there are much steeper
hills so it has lower gearing.

Quoted message said:

As a test take your MTB out to some of the road hills you may ride and
try in a similar gear to the 30x25. to make sure. You can always buy a
slightly bigger cassette if the 30x25 is too hard.

Quoted message said:

Joseph

Thanks for comments - I will take it for a spin but (as mentioned
in "max load"😉 thread I may decide to just get 27spd steel frame
touring type road bike. That way I a year or so if I go for a good
road bike (hopefully with less of weight related constraints) I will
be left with decent touring/commuter bike.
I will check Novara Randonee, Trek 520, Surly LHT, Bianchi Volpe and
perhaps Bianchi Eros.

The Novara and Surly are both fantastic--good ramblin' bikes. Put some
big ass platform pedals on 'em and ride anywhere for any reason. No
excuses. Need 3" espresso machine gaskets? Jump on and ride ten miles
to the espresso-gaskets-R-us. See a fire road on the way? You can
always get gaskets another day.

I did one of those rides on Sunday. Went out for a can of beer, ended
up running into a buddy and cranking out 30 miles that went by way too
quickly. Never would have happened with a pure road bike.

Something that can carry 3-4 smoked mackerels is really the ticket,
IMHO.

Woland99 said:

I am a bit concerned about the rims.

I'm not familiar with the R500 rims. But the most important thing is
how well the wheels are built. You want adequate and even spoke
tension, as well as having the spokes stress relieved. How many
spokes?

http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/wheels/wheelsets/shimano/PRD_366355_2490crx.aspx

Art Harris

Art Harris said:

Woland99 said:

I am a bit concerned about the rims.

I'm not familiar with the R500 rims. But the most important thing is
how well the wheels are built. You want adequate and even spoke
tension, as well as having the spokes stress relieved. How many
spokes?

http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/wheels/wheelsets/shimano/PRD_366355...

Boy, those reviews sure speak da truth! The only solution when
something like that fails, is to buy buy buy new wheels. With
traditional wheels, if they come with gimpy rims--it's easy and cheap
to just swap them out and tighten 'em up.

That said, if the OP can get a stellar deal on the bike, a set of
prebuilt Ultegra/Openpros are a relatively inexpensive commodity item
that can be tuned quite easily.

Art Harris said:

Woland99 said:

I am a bit concerned about the rims.

I'm not familiar with the R500 rims. But the most important thing is
how well the wheels are built. You want adequate and even spoke
tension, as well as having the spokes stress relieved. How many
spokes?

http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/wheels/wheelsets/shimano/PRD_366355...

Art Harris

The R500's I've seen used regular spokes as I recall. This is part of
my assesment that they are fine to start with. Not as good as a high
spoke count standard wheelset, but not crazy either.

Joseph

You say "27spd" as if it matters. It doesn't. The middle ring on
virtually any triple provides nothing but redundant gears. This does
not mean it is useless. It makes for less shifts, mechanically much
easier shifts, and physiometrically much pleasanter shifts (no need to
shift across the cassette first when up shifting, or back when down
shifting) than a comparable "compact" double. And you can space the
big and little rings so the chain won't catch or fall in between, and
has a slightly better angle at the extremes. So, all this for the
fairly small weight of a 3d ring and some bolts.

But it doesn't end there. The big and small ring also crossover
(overlap) at the 52/21. So you lose a few more gears. And you will
find that closely spaced low gears just aren't all that useful... So
you end up with about a dozen real gears, and a "30spd" will give you
a baker's dozen if you do it right..

A steel touring bike is a perfectly fine road bike. It will differ
from a club racer mostly in geometry and wheels, and a little bit in
weight. You can change wheels, unless you are weaving through a pack
you will want to keep the geometry, and as far as the weight goes,
think percentages!-)

JG

Art Harris said:

Woland99 said:

I am a bit concerned about the rims.

I'm not familiar with the R500 rims. But the most important thing is
how well the wheels are built. You want adequate and even spoke
tension, as well as having the spokes stress relieved. How many
spokes?

http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/wheels/wheelsets/shimano/PRD_366355...

Art Harris

Those reviews are not very flattering - it seems that with my weight
I would have to change the wheels right away. That means extra cost
hmmm... I think I will drop the Strada from my list and follow with
touring bike idea. Novara Randonee comes with Mavic A319S - are
those somewhat better than R500?

I will test ride Novara Randonee, Bianchi Volpe, Jamis Aurora,
Surly LHT (if I can find dealer that has them in stock) and maybe
Trek 520, Aurora Elite and Raleigh Sojourn (depends how much I can
get for my commuter bike). Salsa Casseroll Triple is also nice but
a bit outside my price range - $800-1100.
I like Randonee b/c I had very good experience with local REI shop
and it seems it has somewhat lower gears than others: 48/36/26 and
11/32 9spd. Altho I am not sure if those numbers are really
meaningful without length of cranks.

Woland99 said:

touring bike idea. Novara Randonee comes with Mavic A319S - are
those somewhat better than R500?

Yes, and I think the wheels have 36 spokes. My only reservation on the
A319S is that I think it uses a single eylet instead of a "socket" to
support the spoke nipple. You're going to need a good amount of spoke
tension to keep the wheels true, and the single eyelet may result in
the rim cracking and the spoke pulling through. A socket spreads the
spoke tension over both surfaces of the rim. The Mavic A719 uses
sockets. Here's a picture of a Mavic Open Pro rim to illustrate what a
socket is:

http://www.performancebike.com/product_images/500/30-0720-NCL-SIDE.jpg

Quoted message said:

I like Randonee b/c I had very good experience with local REI shop
and it seems it has somewhat lower gears than others: 48/36/26 and
11/32 9spd. Altho I am not sure if those numbers are really
meaningful without length of cranks.

Those are really low gears. Crank length has a pretty small effect,
usually only varying by a couple of mm.

Art Harris

Art Harris said:

Woland99 said:

touring bike idea. Novara Randonee comes with Mavic A319S - are
those somewhat better than R500?

Yes, and I think the wheels have 36 spokes. My only reservation on the
A319S is that I think it uses a single eylet instead of a "socket" to
support the spoke nipple. You're going to need a good amount of spoke
tension to keep the wheels true, and the single eyelet may result in
the rim cracking and the spoke pulling through. A socket spreads the
spoke tension over both surfaces of the rim. The Mavic A719 uses
sockets. Here's a picture of a Mavic Open Pro rim to illustrate what a
socket is:

Bah, it's still a Mavic. Ride it till it cracks, then rerim with an
Alex or Sun Ringle rim.

Art Harris said:

Woland99 said:

touring bike idea. Novara Randonee comes with Mavic A319S - are
those somewhat better than R500?

Yes, and I think the wheels have 36 spokes. My only reservation on the
A319S is that I think it uses a single eylet instead of a "socket" to
support the spoke nipple. You're going to need a good amount of spoke
tension to keep the wheels true, and the single eyelet may result in
the rim cracking and the spoke pulling through. A socket spreads the
spoke tension over both surfaces of the rim. The Mavic A719 uses
sockets. Here's a picture of a Mavic Open Pro rim to illustrate what a
socket is:

http://www.performancebike.com/product_images/500/30-0720-NCL-SIDE.jpg

art, with respect, you're propagating jobstian supposition. there
really isn't anything particularly superior about double-eyelet rims,
other than that you can't drop spoke nipples into the rim cavity. it's
all a matter of proportion.

here's a better picture - without the burrs that make the individual rim
components appear thicker than they really are.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/121453841/

given that the web between the two braking surfaces is the thinnest part
of the whole extrusion, the "contribution to strength" that this
makes to the double-eyelet equation is minimal. there is therefore no
reason why a properly designed single eyelet rim cannot be just as
strong. and it won't carry extra weight of unnecessary hardware.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I like Randonee b/c I had very good experience with local REI shop
and it seems it has somewhat lower gears than others: 48/36/26 and
11/32 9spd. Altho I am not sure if those numbers are really
meaningful without length of cranks.

Those are really low gears. Crank length has a pretty small effect,
usually only varying by a couple of mm.

Art Harris

The anonymous 'jim beam said:

art, with respect, you're propagating jobstian supposition.  there
really isn't anything particularly superior about double-eyelet rims,
other than that you can't drop spoke nipples into the rim cavity.  it's
all a matter of proportion.

I disagree. For example the single-eyelet Mavic MA-3 at 480g was
notorious for cracked rims and spokes pulling through. Yet I don't
recall any cases of spokes pulling through on the lighter but socketed
Mavic Open Pro (435g).

Obviously, when spoke tension is distributed over two surfaces, there
is less chance of cracking and pull through. The only way around that
(with single eyelets) is to significantly beef up the rim thickness
(i.e., increase weight).

Art Harris

Art Harris said:

Quoted message said:

art, with respect, you're propagating jobstian supposition.  there
really isn't anything particularly superior about double-eyelet
rims, other than that you can't drop spoke nipples into the rim
cavity.  it's all a matter of proportion.

Quoted message said:

I disagree. For example the single-eyelet Mavic MA-3 at 480g was
notorious for cracked rims and spokes pulling through. Yet I don't
recall any cases of spokes pulling through on the lighter but
socketed Mavic Open Pro (435g).

Quoted message said:

Obviously, when spoke tension is distributed over two surfaces,
there is less chance of cracking and pull through. The only way
around that (with single eyelets) is to significantly beef up the
rim thickness (i.e., increase weight).

The difference arises from the stress distribution that spoke sockets
give by their nearly two fold larger diameter on the inner rim bed
than an eyelet has on the outer wall... both surfaces bearing spoke
loads on a socketed rim. Of course your experience is more telling as
is mine of riding socketed rims until the braking surface is worn out,
while never having a cracked rim with high spoke tension.

Jobst Brandt

quote='landotter'On Feb 21 said:

Woland99 said:

touring bike idea. Novara Randonee comes with Mavic A319S - are
those somewhat better than R500?

Yes, and I think the wheels have 36 spokes. My only reservation on the
A319S is that I think it uses a single eylet instead of a "socket" to
support the spoke nipple. You're going to need a good amount of spoke
tension to keep the wheels true, and the single eyelet may result in
the rim cracking and the spoke pulling through. A socket spreads the
spoke tension over both surfaces of the rim. The Mavic A719 uses
sockets. Here's a picture of a Mavic Open Pro rim to illustrate what a
socket is:

Bah, it's still a Mavic. Ride it till it cracks, then rerim with an
Alex or Sun Ringle rim.[/QUOTE]
I agree, just make sure you start with a rim that has the same ERD as the Alex DM 18 or Adventurer.
Surly LHT comes with Adventurer rims. The Stainless Steel Eyelet (no socket to connect to the inner rim wall) works fine in this well engineered and well made rim.
At this stage, Mavic has the best marketing, but Alex has very good product value.
I think the OP would be best served by LHT if his REI will order him one and give him his member discount. The complete bicycle is a well specified package that is very difficult to beat for value. It is very suitable for heavy riders and will handle most any riding condition.
I have no connection to REI, Alex, or Surly. OK, I used to work for REI and I still shop there and have a good relationship especially with the Bike Shop folks in my local REI.

Art Harris said:

The anonymous 'jim beam said:

art, with respect, you're propagating jobstian supposition. �there
really isn't anything particularly superior about double-eyelet rims,
other than that you can't drop spoke nipples into the rim cavity. �it's
all a matter of proportion.

I disagree. For example the single-eyelet Mavic MA-3 at 480g was
notorious for cracked rims and spokes pulling through. Yet I don't
recall any cases of spokes pulling through on the lighter but socketed
Mavic Open Pro (435g).

1. they're different alloys.
2. they're different proportions.

Quoted message said:

Obviously, when spoke tension is distributed over two surfaces,

it's not "obvious" - that's the jobstian supposition. look at how thin
is that web on the cosmos rim. do you think that can carry the same
load as the other [thicker] part of the rim?

Quoted message said:

there
is less chance of cracking and pull through.

like this?
http://web.onetel.net.uk/~davidwgreen/rimpics/2.JPG

Quoted message said:

The only way around that
(with single eyelets) is to significantly beef up the rim thickness
(i.e., increase weight).

what weight are all those [steel] sockets?

look at all the high end pre-built wheels. mavic don't use
double-eyelets. shimano don't use double-eyelets, even campy don't use
double-eyelets iirc. think about that.

Art Harris said:

The anonymous 'jim beam said:

art, with respect, you're propagating jobstian supposition. there
really isn't anything particularly superior about double-eyelet rims,
other than that you can't drop spoke nipples into the rim cavity. it's
all a matter of proportion.

I disagree. For example the single-eyelet Mavic MA-3 at 480g was
notorious for cracked rims and spokes pulling through. Yet I don't
recall any cases of spokes pulling through on the lighter but socketed
Mavic Open Pro (435g).

Is the crapitude of the MA-3 to be blamed on the eyelet--or is the
strength of the Open Pro due to the socketed construction overcoming
the limitations of the [censored] alloy Mavic employs?

jim beam said:

Art Harris said:

The anonymous 'jim beam said:

art, with respect, you're propagating jobstian supposition. �there
really isn't anything particularly superior about double-eyelet rims,
other than that you can't drop spoke nipples into the rim cavity. �it's
all a matter of proportion.

I disagree. For example the single-eyelet Mavic MA-3 at 480g was
notorious for cracked rims and spokes pulling through. Yet I don't
recall any cases of spokes pulling through on the lighter but socketed
Mavic Open Pro (435g).

1. they're different alloys.
2. they're different proportions.

Quoted message said:

Obviously, when spoke tension is distributed over two surfaces,

it's not "obvious" - that's the jobstian supposition. look at how thin
is that web on the cosmos rim. do you think that can carry the same
load as the other [thicker] part of the rim?

Quoted message said:

there
is less chance of cracking and pull through.

like this?
http://web.onetel.net.uk/~davidwgreen/rimpics/2.JPG

Quoted message said:

The only way around that
(with single eyelets) is to significantly beef up the rim thickness
(i.e., increase weight).

what weight are all those [steel] sockets?

look at all the high end pre-built wheels. mavic don't use
double-eyelets. shimano don't use double-eyelets, even campy don't use
double-eyelets iirc. think about that.

Are not all those wheels mostly sold to the "gram counting" types?
Bragging rights about light weight and looking good at the coffee shop
are more important than durability for some riders.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful