7 HOURS FOR A MARATHON ?

I can't think of a single activity that I'd be interested in doing for 7 hours, let alone one where
you're surrounded by dull witted joggers.

Quoted message said:

This year under new management all categories of runners finishing under 6 hours and 59 minutes
were recognized as having completed the marathon and their times appeared in the newspaper the
next day. A power walker could finish without running at all, I'd bet !

Great, power walkers are often slighted by time limits.

Quoted message said:

Are there any national standards that specify the maximim time lapsed for "completing a
marathon" ?

Nope! It's at the discretion of the RD. It's matter of setting the time limit and securing
volunteers that length of time.

Quoted message said:

Should 4 hours be the max ?

Only if you want to go down in the record books for having hosted a road marathon with fewest
entries. Ok, I'll bite, where did the 4 hours come from? My instincts sense an elitist attitude.
Indy is that you?

--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email hidden]

Where did my 4 hour max time for a marathon come from ?

Not from me.

No, I'm no elitist, but I've heard time and time again that anymore than 4 hours to complete a
marathon indicates that an entrant didn't really "run a marathon" . He/she "walked-ran" 26.2 miles.

What do you think of such a distinction ?

If someone comes across the finish line, say, 12 hours after the starting gun, is the/she a
marathoner ? Or are they, um, something else ?

Is a 26.2 mile hike a marathon, for instance ?

~Pitstop

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Are there any national standards that specify the maximim time lapsed for "completing a
marathon" ?

Should 4 hours be the max ?

~Pitstop

Nope. The four hours thinking sounds logical for a 30 year old male, but it basically proves whoever
proposes it was not thinking about women, or even older men.

Breaking 4 will give a lot of women a Boston qualifier, so by cutting marathon off at 4 hours you're
saying no women over 45 should have a shot.

20 years ago less than 10% of the running population was women. Now it's nearly 50% and many of
those are women in their 30's, 40's, and older.

Those advocating 4 hour cutoffs are in essense saying marathons should be open to men and young
women only.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Should 4 hours be the max ?

No.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

- Homer J. Simpson

An aerobic walker at 4 miles per hour can finish 26.2 miles in 6.6 hours. Fast race walkers do it in
3.5 hours.

In my experience, I hit the wall too, when I hike more than 20 miles a day. Same cause: low
glycogen. So I'd consider it an acheivement to walk 26 miles in one stretch.

Quoted message said:

When I ran the hometown 26.2 mile marathon the course was always officially closed down at exactly
5 hours after the starting gun had fired.

Runners crossing the Finish Line after 5 hours were not recognized as having completed the marathon
and times were not recorded for their "finish".

This year under new management all categories of runners finishing under 6 hours and 59 minutes
were recognized as having completed the marathon and their times appeared in the newspaper the next
day. A power walker could finish without running at all, I'd bet !

Are there any national standards that specify the maximim time lapsed for "completing a marathon" ?

Should 4 hours be the max ?

~Pitstop

Responding more to various other post than to yours. Although I agree that there should be
no cutt off for a marathon, I do have to question finishes of 7,8,9 hrs for normal, not
extreme, road marathons for your typical, not extreme, age limits. A 6 hr 8 min marathon
finish is a 14min mi average. Using a typical pace calculator(Yes I'm aware their not real
accurate) it predicts a 37 min 5K pace. Again without being pinned as one of those "elitist"
I think we all can agree that it's certainly, not absolutely necessary, but certainly the
smart way to have a certain amount of training before moving on to a marathon. I've been to
quite a few 5K & 10K races and the overwhelming majority finish before 37min & 1:18
respectively. Matter of fact the only people that don't finish in these times, save a few
exceptions, are people who are "strolling" and admittedly so. Granted there are a few
exceptions. People who are truly trying and don't hit the 37 min or 1:18. However in almost
every case I certainly wouldn't reccommend that these people "go do a marathon". Also in
almost every case with further training these people could undoubtably finish a 5K
significantly faster and potential finish a marathon faster and probably safer. Again
without being pinned as an "elitist", which I really can't be because I'm to freakin slow, I
have absolutely no problem with anyone doing a marathon for any reason in any time they
chose. As somebody said, at least there off the couch. To me it boils down to effort. Simply
stated a healthy 30-40yr old male running a 6-7hr marathon is either significatly
genetically or physically handicapped or simply hasn't put enough effort forth in both the
race and or training. On top of this the only way to find out if your genetically
handicapped is by putting in alot of effort and realizing your not getting any faster. The
end result, IMO, is this. I can't see someone saying "Hey I ran a marathon" at the age of 35
if they finished in 6 hrs knowing that they simply went out and walked 26.2 miles with
little or no training. It just seems dishonest to me and cheapens the efforts of those that
truly work at there endevours. For those that a 6hr+ effort is truly there best effort that
they've worked on and can do no better, I applaud them and would glady volunteer to work the
course no matter how long it took for them to finish. (OK I might just have to leave at some
point) In the end I think it's impossible to put a time on what would be considered an
acceptable limit to finish any race under all circumstances. Obvioulsy from a practical
point of view the course must be shut down at some point. However the only person that can
truly say whether you "raced" the "race" or not is the athlete.

~Matt

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Should 4 hours be the max ?

Since the word "marathon" has become synonymous with lengthy, I say, the longer the better. In fact,
all those speed-demons finishing in just over two hours should be disqualified!

ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º eNo "The longer the better."
ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º

Pitstop: I think this is pretty harsh to be brutally honest.

I am embarking on my first marathon, having never been a runner and at age 30, I will be
dissappointed not to go under 4 hours, but I still think it is a huge ask for those of us that
do not do this for a 'living'. 4 hours is a long time to be running in anyones books, let alone
us learners.

Yes, 7 hours is a bit extreme, but 4 hours is also unbreakable for a lot of people so Ive heard.

Brendon

<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]... Where
did my 4 hour max time for a marathon come from ?

Not from me.

No, I'm no elitist, but I've heard time and time again that anymore than 4 hours to complete a
marathon indicates that an entrant didn't really "run a marathon" . He/she "walked-ran" 26.2 miles.

What do you think of such a distinction ?

If someone comes across the finish line, say, 12 hours after the starting gun, is the/she a
marathoner ? Or are they, um, something else ?

Is a 26.2 mile hike a marathon, for instance ?

~Pitstop

Quoted message said:

Where did my 4 hour max time for a marathon come from ?

Not from me.

No, I'm no elitist, but I've heard time and time again that anymore than 4 hours to complete
a marathon indicates that an entrant didn't really "run a marathon" . He/she "walked-ran"
26.2 miles.

Don't listen to those the say "time and time again..." It's a childish big [censored] contest. Why not
pose the same silly question if someone finishes a 5k in over 30 minutes, or a 10k over 60 minutes
or a 100 miles over 24 hours.

Quoted message said:

What do you think of such a distinction ?

A sign of low self esteem.

Quoted message said:

If someone comes across the finish line, say, 12 hours after the starting gun, is the/she a
marathoner ? Or are they, um, something else ?

They are someone that finished the race if they came in under the established time limit. Any
further distinction is for those feel the need to feel bigger then they really are.

Quoted message said:

Is a 26.2 mile hike a marathon, for instance ?

Asked and answered but keep asking. Will your next question be to distinguish the difference between
a runner and jogger? This all leads to that most important of all macho knuckle dragging Neanderthal
questions, "define a REAL runner."

Takes me back a few years to my idle, er, idol Indy, who drew this macho line in the sand at 3:30
for the marathon. Then we found his real name and him finishing closer to 4 hours and he
slithered off

--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Where did my 4 hour max time for a marathon come from ?

Not from me.

No, I'm no elitist, but I've heard time and time again that anymore than 4 hours to complete
a marathon indicates that an entrant didn't really "run a marathon" . He/she "walked-ran"
26.2 miles.

Keep in mind that some people can probably walk-run a marathon in < 4 hrs and others may run the
entire way and take over 5 hr to finish. A

In addition to what others have already said, remember that not everybody is a young male. There's
80-year old women out there running ultras and marathons - and setting records.

Also, not all marathons are on relatively flat roads. One goes up and down Pikes Peak where the
course record is over 4 hrs for about 3/4 of the age groups. I think the 2x-3x males are the only
ones under 4 hrs - and that's the record. No woman has finished under 4 hr in the results I saw.

Cutoff times are related to administrative issues - road closures, time for volunteers to be on
course, how long a reasonably trained person might take to finish (longer for trail and hilly
courses), whether the RD wants a fast race (Olympics, worlds, etc) or whether they want an event for
everyone, including walkers. More participants = more entry fees = $$$. What constitutes a finisher
is up to the race organization. You read those rules and agree to them when you register. If you
want to say you finished Y marathon, then you either train to finish Y marathon in the cutoffs or
pick another marathon that's an easier course or more generous cutoffs.

All official finishers of a X marathon have the right to call themselves a "X marathon finisher".
Does anybody care how they finished? I don't - although I'd be really impressed if they ran all of
Pike's Peak 🙂

There shouldn't be any national standard for saying a person "finished" a marathon. Otherwise,
you're going to have everybody flocking to the fast courses, like they do for Boston qualifiers.
There's some nice marathon courses out there to challenge people in aspects other than speed.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

[email hidden] (Miss Anne Thrope) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

WHO WAS IT, THREATENED THE PRESIDENT?

WHO ADVOCATED AID TO TERRORISTS?

YEP, our own BILL DAVIDSON, just one day after the 9-11 attack, while the victims were
still burning.
___________________________________________________
"we should bomb that pathetic excuse for a man too, or at least give his location to every terrorist
group we can find, and let them take him out. Just what we need in the white house, a coked-up
dopehead running the country".

From: MrRobotTow ([email hidden]) Subject: Re: The Only Thing Newsgroups:
rec.music.makers.bagpipe Date: 2001-09-12 03:00:32 PST

groups.google.comgroupsOpen ↗
8&selm=20010912055959.21715.00001917%40mb-fi.aol.com&rnum=3
___________________________________________________

YO! Homeland Security dudes: KEY PHRASES! BOMB "WHITE HOUSE" "TERRORIST GROUP"

THERE'S YER ANTISOCIAL NUT CASE, RIGHT THERE! COULD BE another John Hinckley. Check him out!

This US citizen publicly called for AID to TERRORISTS: IS HIS NAME ON YOUR LIST? Check him out!

To long-suffering RMMB contributors: DO COPY AND PASTE this message. THEN use it to REPLY anytime
you have an urge to respond to the NOT-REALLY-ANNONYMOUS troll on RMMB and rec.running. (Why, YES,
Bill Davidson, the source of thousands of lowlife postings under dozens of account names, is also
"TheBillRodgers" and his clones.

Will Bill's own words amuse him as much as they amuse us? WILL THEY AMUSE OTHERS? Let's find out.
Let's be sure BILL gets the attention he deserves and craves.

COPY, PASTE, REPLY to our TROLL. IT'S THAT EASY

rick++ said:

An aerobic walker at 4 miles per hour can finish 26.2 miles in 6.6 hours. Fast race walkers do it
in 3.5 hours.

In my experience, I hit the wall too, when I hike more than 20 miles a day. Same cause: low
glycogen.

Just like running I practice hiking to become more efficient. Between training and experience along
with eating, you can prevent your glycogen stores from hitting that "I'm in deep doo doo" stage
while running or walking.

--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email hidden]

In article <[email hidden]>,

(rick++) said:

In my experience, I hit the wall too, when I hike more than 20 miles a day. Same cause: low
glycogen. So I'd consider it an acheivement to walk 26 miles in one stretch.

Try doing it after swimming 2.4 miles and biking 112 miles! (I probably rand about 3-4 miles, adn I
think I could have run a lot more if it hadn't been 90 and humid. I'd done 18 miles in training.)

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

- Homer J. Simpson

"Brendon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Pitstop: I think this is pretty harsh to be brutally honest.

I am embarking on my first marathon, having never been a runner and at age 30, I will be
dissappointed not to go under 4 hours, but I still think it

is

Quoted message said:

a huge ask for those of us that do not do this for a 'living'. 4 hours is

a

Quoted message said:

long time to be running in anyones books, let alone us learners.

Yes, 7 hours is a bit extreme, but 4 hours is also unbreakable for a lot

of

Quoted message said:

people so Ive heard.

I used to teach a "learn to run" clinic.

At the end of the 12 week program, the class would all run a local 5k race. These are people who
never ran before in their lives. Many were overweight, or had other similar problems that probably
led them to make a lifestyle change to begin with.

The slower runners finished in the 30 - 35 minute range. These people ran the whole way... well
jogged, but whatever - they weren't walking.

If they entered a marathon and didn't slow down they would still be well over four hours. They were
working very hard, too. If anything, it's not the person's pace that should bother the original
poster - the runner's effort level is more telling.

I could run a marathon in my sleep in 4 hours. For someone else a four hour marathon is an
impossiblity even with lots of training and dedication.

Who is the person who deserves to run the race less if we both finished with a 4:01 time? I
would say me.

cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org

Hey D did the person below run faster ???that was funny!!=)) plodzilla

Doug Freese wrote: Takes me back a few years to my idle, er, idol Indy, who drew this

Quoted message said:

macho line in the sand at 3:30 for the marathon. Then we found his real name and him finishing
closer to 4 hours and he slithered off

Quoted message said:

--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email hidden]

Doug Freese <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<RD0Sb.276718he >slithered off

Was that at your request? Was his decision made after spending a night at that private club you
host? Stop trying to copnvert straighties Doug.

Dot dot.h@#att.net said:

In addition to what others have already said, remember that not everybody is a young male. There's
80-year old women out there running ultras and marathons - and setting records.

Indeed.

My wife (a mere 56) just won her age group in the Jacksonville Marathon, only her 3rd 'thon.

Her finishing time?

4:17:30, (just 2:30 from qualifying for Boston.)

A 4 hour cutoff for "real" runners? LOL

Mike Tennent "IronPenguin"

Mike Tennent said:

My wife (a mere 56) just won her age group in the Jacksonville Marathon, only her 3rd 'thon.

Her finishing time?

4:17:30, (just 2:30 from qualifying for Boston.)

A 4 hour cutoff for "real" runners? LOL

Hey, Mike, that's great!! Wasn't she originally shooting for 5 then was doing well enough in
training that 4:30 became realistic? And then apparently did even better!

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope