7-speed Drivetrain upgrade

[billy1974]

I just started riding again after several years off of the bike. Now that I'm getting into it on a regular basis (no racing; just training rides, about 100-150 mi. per week), I'm considering upgrading my drivetrain.

My bike is an old (circa 1990?) Cannondale 3.0 Criterium frame w/ Shimano 105 components throughout. Shifters are on the downtubes; 7-speed Ultraglide cog in the rear; 52/42 rings up front. I assume the frame is 126mm spacing in the rear.

I do like the frame. I'm accustomed to it and it suits me (I'm about 6'2", currently 235 lbs). I am very interested, however, in moving to an STI-based shifting system. I've gotten mixed feedback from bike shops and my own research on how to proceed. One shop said a group upgrade is possible, but would take a lot of work. Another said I'd be better off just buying a new bike (since I'd probably need new wheels, derailleurs, cogset, cables, shifters, etc., and have the frame widened).

So, here are my main questions:

- Did Shimano ever make a 7-speed group in STI format?
- Are the Sora 7-speed shifters/brake levers worth considering? (I did find these new for sale, at a cost of $130, incl. cables)
- If I need to go to 8-speed, can I put an 8-speed cog on my existing (Ultraglide) hub without widening the frame?
- Can an aluminum frame be widened at all?
- Is it just time to bite-the-bullet and get a new bike?

(My guess is that a new one would run me $800-$1,000, to stay at the Shimano 105 level of components. New components, wheels, etc. on my current Cannondale will probably run me in the neighborhood of $600-$700.)

Thanks for anyone's input here.

 

[daveornee]

Originally posted by billy1974
I just started riding again after several years off of the bike. Now that I'm getting into it on a regular basis (no racing; just training rides, about 100-150 mi. per week), I'm considering upgrading my drivetrain.

My bike is an old (circa 1990?) Cannondale 3.0 Criterium frame w/ Shimano 105 components throughout. Shifters are on the downtubes; 7-speed Ultraglide cog in the rear; 52/42 rings up front. I assume the frame is 126mm spacing in the rear.

I do like the frame. I'm accustomed to it and it suits me (I'm about 6'2", currently 235 lbs). I am very interested, however, in moving to an STI-based shifting system. I've gotten mixed feedback from bike shops and my own research on how to proceed. One shop said a group upgrade is possible, but would take a lot of work. Another said I'd be better off just buying a new bike (since I'd probably need new wheels, derailleurs, cogset, cables, shifters, etc., and have the frame widened).

So, here are my main questions:

- Did Shimano ever make a 7-speed group in STI format?
- Are the Sora 7-speed shifters/brake levers worth considering? (I did find these new for sale, at a cost of $130, incl. cables)
- If I need to go to 8-speed, can I put an 8-speed cog on my existing (Ultraglide) hub without widening the frame?
- Can an aluminum frame be widened at all?
- Is it just time to bite-the-bullet and get a new bike?

(My guess is that a new one would run me $800-$1,000, to stay at the Shimano 105 level of components. New components, wheels, etc. on my current Cannondale will probably run me in the neighborhood of $600-$700.)

Thanks for anyone's input here.

Yes, you found Sora shifters, and they are made for 7 speed STI.
$130 seems high to me, but I am not shopping for them.
You can't put an 8 speed cassette on your current UG cassette body. You can put 8 of 9 speed HG cassette cogs on a 7 speed HG cassette body, keeping your existing 126 spacing and using 9 speed STI to shift 8 cogs.
There are also current Shimano bar end shifters that would give you shift control from the bars and the 8 of 9 shifting... which is what I do on my old carbon fiber road bicycle that is 126 mm OLD.
I swapped the rear wheel for one with 7 speed HG cassette body, bought the bar end shifters, 9 speed cassette, and 9 speed chain. I have 8 speeds, bar accessible shifting, and a large choice of chains and cassettes that work.
Before you start, you need to decide what you are willing to spend on your old steed, and do the total package pricing.
I am in the camp that says widening aluminum and cabor frames isn't a good idea. You can measure the actual frame to see how close you are to 130 mm. You should speak directly with Cannondale to see what they say.

 

[boudreaux]

Originally posted by billy1974
I just started riding again after several years off of the bike. Now that I'm getting into it on a regular basis (no racing; just training rides, about 100-150 mi. per week), I'm considering upgrading my drivetrain.

My bike is an old (circa 1990?) Cannondale 3.0 Criterium frame w/ Shimano 105 components throughout. Shifters are on the downtubes; 7-speed Ultraglide cog in the rear; 52/42 rings up front. I assume the frame is 126mm spacing in the rear.

I do like the frame. I'm accustomed to it and it suits me (I'm about 6'2", currently 235 lbs). I am very interested, however, in moving to an STI-based shifting system. I've gotten mixed feedback from bike shops and my own research on how to proceed. One shop said a group upgrade is possible, but would take a lot of work. Another said I'd be better off just buying a new bike (since I'd probably need new wheels, derailleurs, cogset, cables, shifters, etc., and have the frame widened).

So, here are my main questions:

- Did Shimano ever make a 7-speed group in STI format?
- Are the Sora 7-speed shifters/brake levers worth considering? (I did find these new for sale, at a cost of $130, incl. cables)
- If I need to go to 8-speed, can I put an 8-speed cog on my existing (Ultraglide) hub without widening the frame?
- Can an aluminum frame be widened at all?
- Is it just time to bite-the-bullet and get a new bike?

(My guess is that a new one would run me $800-$1,000, to stay at the Shimano 105 level of components. New components, wheels, etc. on my current Cannondale will probably run me in the neighborhood of $600-$700.)

Thanks for anyone's input here.

To start with, a Cdale of that vintage if correct could have a compromise dropout spacing of 128mm and that can be used with 8,9, or 10 speed hubs.So have it checked to be sure. Otherwise it is not recommended to use a 130 hub in an aluminum frame with 126 dropout spacing. Shimano made 7 speed RSX,but it's long out of print,but can be found on ebay. There is no such thing as ultraglide,but it could be uniglide. A 7 speed hub will not accept 8 speeds. Given the current situation, 8 speed is hardly an option either, since the only shifters currently available new are sora,of possibly some obscure new ones shimano supposedly introduced to fill a parts void. If you had a hyperglide hub/casette,there is an option I won't even mention with that uniglide setup. The cheap way would be to use 7 speed sora shifters and nothing else would have to be changed assuming it is all in good working ordeer. I think they can be had for under $100.

 

[ThrillBilly]

nashbar has 8-sp sora shifter kit for $90. it could be used for 7-sp.

i had several LBS check for 7-sp sora kits. the kit (including cables and stops) ranged from $80-120 (US$) and install averaged $25 + new tape at these LBS.

i get WIDELY varied opinions if the sora shifters are worth the lets call it $125 upgrade. i "suspect" that for me (not pretending to be a racer anymore), the sora would work fine, and that the negative rap on the sora is based more in attitude toward the lower-class label on the group than actual fact-based experience.

im at the point in my life that the shifters could say HUFFY on the cap if they perform the task they are asked to do.

im at the exact same dilema with a narrow 7-sp, and am now thinking that the sora $125 solution is a rather inexpensive upgrade that will actually improve the comfort, safety and ease-of-use for my old bike.

 

[boudreaux]

Originally posted by ThrillBilly
nashbar has 8-sp sora shifter kit for $90. it could be used for 7-sp.

i had several LBS check for 7-sp sora kits. the kit (including cables and stops) ranged from $80-120 (US$) and install averaged $25 + new tape at these LBS.

i get WIDELY varied opinions if the sora shifters are worth the lets call it $125 upgrade. i "suspect" that for me (not pretending to be a racer anymore), the sora would work fine, and that the negative rap on the sora is based more in attitude toward the lower-class label on the group than actual fact-based experience.

im at the point in my life that the shifters could say HUFFY on the cap if they perform the task they are asked to do.

im at the exact same dilema with a narrow 7-sp, and am now thinking that the sora $125 solution is a rather inexpensive upgrade that will actually improve the comfort, safety and ease-of-use for my old bike.

7 speed Shimano cog spacing is 5mm and 8 is 4.8mm. Close enough that it works for many. Some ARs don't buy it. I've usd shimano 7 speed shifters on an otherwise 8 speed drivetrain and it works ok.YMMV.

 

[billy1974]

thanks to all for your input. i checked with cannondale, and they said that the frame will NOT accept 130mm hubs. must be an older frame than i thought.

given that, i think i'm gonna stick with the 7-speed setup (which is, in fact, Hyperglide; not sure where I got Ultraglide from) and try to snag some of those 7-speed sora shifters. i have a ways to go before i can justify a huge expense on this bike or a purchase of a new bike. i'll do the bare minimum on the c-dale, keep riding as much as i can, get myself back in shape, and look forward to a new bike some time down the road. (perhpas a custom Ti frame? campy chorus? one can dream...)

thanks again.

 

[Gonzo Bob]

Originally posted by billy1974
thanks to all for your input. i checked with cannondale, and they said that the frame will NOT accept 130mm hubs. must be an older frame than i thought.

given that, i think i'm gonna stick with the 7-speed setup (which is, in fact, Hyperglide; not sure where I got Ultraglide from) and try to snag some of those 7-speed sora shifters. i have a ways to go before i can justify a huge expense on this bike or a purchase of a new bike. i'll do the bare minimum on the c-dale, keep riding as much as i can, get myself back in shape, and look forward to a new bike some time down the road. (perhpas a custom Ti frame? campy chorus? one can dream...)

thanks again.

Since it is HyperGlide, and you are looking at getting new shifters anyway, what I would do is get 9-speed shifters and a 9-speed cassette, but put only 8 of the cogs on. Eight 9-speed cogs/spacers will fit onto a 7-speed freehub and you do not have to spread your frame.

 

[billy1974]

Originally posted by Gonzo Bob
Since it is HyperGlide, and you are looking at getting new shifters anyway, what I would do is get 9-speed shifters and a 9-speed cassette, but put only 8 of the cogs on. Eight 9-speed cogs/spacers will fit onto a 7-speed freehub and you do not have to spread your frame.

yeah, i think that's what i'm going to do. i'd like to get a new cassette, anyway, to add some larger cogs (i'm running a 13-21 now, which was fine when i was racing in high school, but a little steep for me now). also, anyone have any thoughts on:

- new 9-speed chain selection
- new front derailleur (does this need to be upgraded? current 105 unit is not indexed.)
- new front chainrings: would these need to be replaced? would current-day Ultegra rings be beneficial?

 

[billy1974]

another question re: using 8 of 9 -- can i omit only the large cog, or can i omit the smallest cog? e.g., if i get a 12-?? cassette, must the 12 be used? or can i start with the 13? (i guess i'm asking if the small cog in a HG cassette serves as the lock-ring.)

 

[boudreaux]

Originally posted by billy1974
another question re: using 8 of 9 -- can i omit only the large cog, or can i omit the smallest cog? e.g., if i get a 12-?? cassette, must the 12 be used? or can i start with the 13? (i guess i'm asking if the small cog in a HG cassette serves as the lock-ring.)

You get rid of a cog and a spacer. The samll cog is designed to have the lock ring bear against it to keep things tight. Duno for sure if you can actually get away with ditching it.Have thought about that, but haven't tried it.. Get a 105 casette or lower as the cogs are just put together with removable pins and can all be separated. Sometimes a non STI FD will work with STI shifters (particularly a double crank), sometimes not.Depends on the design. Pinned and ramped rings will shift quicker,but STI and proper FD will also work with rings that aren't,especially on a double.

 

[Gonzo Bob]

Get an SRAM 9-speed chain.

Technically derailers are not "indexed". The levers are. Derailers just have to match the cable throw of the indexed levers. I am not sure if the 105 FD will work. I once tried to use an old 105 FD in an 8-speed Ultegra setup and the brifter didn't pull enough cable for the 105 FD so I went with an Ultegra FD.

No need to replace chainrings to go to 9-speed. Replace only if worn.

Which cog to remove? I would not remove the top cog (smallest). If you really want a 13 top cog, get a 9-speed cassette that starts with a 13. You can remove any of the other cogs.

 

[boudreaux]

Originally posted by Gonzo Bob
Get an SRAM 9-speed chain.

Technically derailers are not "indexed". The levers are. Derailers just have to match the cable throw of the indexed levers. I am not sure if the 105 FD will work. I once tried to use an old 105 FD in an 8-speed Ultegra setup and the brifter didn't pull enough cable for the 105 FD so I went with an Ultegra FD.

No need to replace chainrings to go to 9-speed. Replace only if worn.

Which cog to remove? I would not remove the top cog (smallest). If you really want a 13 top cog, get a 9-speed cassette that starts with a 13. You can remove any of the other cogs.

You cannot remove 'any of the other' larger cogs on ultegra and DA casettes which are mounted on carriers with other cogs.

 

[billy1974]

Originally posted by boudreaux
You cannot remove 'any of the other' larger cogs on ultegra and DA casettes which are mounted on carriers with other cogs.

so, if i want to remove the large cog at the end (to keep the spacing through the rest of the cassette relatively even), is my best bet a 105 cassette?

 

[boudreaux]

Originally posted by billy1974
so, if i want to remove the large cog at the end (to keep the spacing through the rest of the cassette relatively even), is my best bet a 105 cassette?

you got it. That's gonna leave you with a 23 big cog as the biggest with a 105 is a 25. you can also play around with lx casettes,but the small cog there is an 11 which you may not need.

 

[billy1974]

Originally posted by boudreaux
you got it. That's gonna leave you with a 23 big cog as the biggest with a 105 is a 25. you can also play around with lx casettes,but the small cog there is an 11 which you may not need.

Would a SRAM cassette work, as well? Are the cogs individually assembled, or are they grouped as with Ultegra/DA cassettes?

Also, any thoughts on using 9-speed campy Ergo levers to do the shifting? Would rear derailleur have to be replaced to use campy shifters?