A few novice wheel questions....

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Ted, Mar 7, 2003.

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  1. Ted

    Ted Guest

    Recently, on my daily ride on my MTB to Wolverhampton, I managed to buckle my rear wheel - about
    half-way there meaning another 15 miles on a buckled wheel! That's OK I thought, I've buckled it
    before, so I'll take it down the LBS and get it straitened. I left it there overnight, and on
    return, the guy told me that the wheel was impossible to true but had got it as close as possible.
    He told me he had to make some of the spokes very tight, and some very loose to keep it in shape,
    replacing 3 spokes in the process - and charged my £9 for the pleasure.

    After another 40 miles on the "repaired" wheel, the deterioration is obvious. Is it possible to have
    damaged the wheel to the degree that it can't be straightened, or is this bloke at the LBS blagging
    me? Possibly his wheel building skills aren't up to scratch? There is no visual damage to the hub or
    rim, and the original buckle was not so bad that I couldn't ride the bike home.

    If I do need to buy a new rear wheel, is there anything I need to look out for? I want one of a
    similar quality to the one off my Schwinn Moab 3 (it was double rimmed, and had a Shimano Parallax
    hub whatever that means??!?!?), possibly a bit stronger to cope with my 14 stone arse. Would it be
    difficult to take the cassette off my old wheel and stick it on a new one (any special tools etc)?
    Should I replace the cassette chain etc(my bikes done 1500 miles)?

    What would be the best online bike shop to buy from (whats the customer service like from Leisure
    Lakes, Wiggler etc), or would you suggest I pay extra at my LBS?

    Cheers,

    Ted
     
    Tags:


  2. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Ted wrote:
    > After another 40 miles on the "repaired" wheel, the deterioration is obvious. Is it possible to
    > have damaged the wheel to the degree that it can't be straightened

    Yes

    > or is this bloke at the LBS blagging me? Possibly his wheel building skills aren't up to scratch?
    > There is no visual damage to the hub or rim, and the original buckle was not so bad that I
    > couldn't ride the bike home.

    He may well be right. Rims can easily be damaged, and it's hard to repair them to a good degree.
    Truing can be enough if lucky (and it depends on rim type and exact nature of damage) -- in fact,
    I'm still using a rear wheel which badly went out of shape in two accidents, trued my yours truly --
    but really, one is supposed to bend the rim back before rebuilding the wheel. But this can be
    virtually impossible to do well sometimes. Frankly, it's not worth bothering with if you like your
    wheels round and your brakes close and smooth. Rims usually aren't that expenisve. Better just to do
    a rim transplant with a new rim (spokes are probably ok).

    > If I do need to buy a new rear wheel, is there anything I need to look out for?

    Unless a replacement wheel would be extremely cheap or existing hub is in a bad way, you just need a
    new rim, not a new wheel.

    > Would it be difficult to take the cassette off my old wheel and stick it on a new one (any special
    > tools etc)?

    Not difficult with a cassette remover and chain whip (get from bike shop or Mike Dysaon Ltd).

    > Should I replace the cassette chain etc(my bikes done 1500 miles)?

    Not cassette yet. Might possibly benefit from a new chain. Find the chain advice on
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/

    > What would be the best online bike shop to buy from (whats the customer service like from Leisure
    > Lakes, Wiggler etc), or would you suggest I pay extra at my LBS?

    LBS would be best to use if you're unsure what to get or you want to donate to their coffers.
    Otherwise, customer service and prices from Wiggle, Settle, Parker International and plenty of
    others are good.

    > Wiggler
    :)

    --
    ~PB FA: 62cm Ti frame: http://tinyurl.com/6stt
     
  3. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Ted wrote:
    > Recently, on my daily ride on my MTB to Wolverhampton, I managed to buckle my rear wheel

    How? Pothole?

    ~PB
     
  4. On Fri, 07 Mar 2003 12:55:45 +0000, Ted did issue forth:

    > After another 40 miles on the "repaired" wheel, the deterioration is obvious. Is it possible to
    > have damaged the wheel to the degree that it can't be straightened, or is this bloke at the LBS
    > blagging me? Possibly his wheel building skills aren't up to scratch? There is no visual damage to
    > the hub or rim, and the original buckle was not so bad that I couldn't ride the bike home.

    Entirely possible. A wheel has three possible states: True, out of true and wanged. I guess yours
    was wanged.

    > If I do need to buy a new rear wheel, is there anything I need to look out for? I want one of a
    > similar quality to the one off my Schwinn Moab 3 (it was double rimmed, and had a Shimano Parallax
    > hub whatever that means??!?!?), possibly a bit stronger to cope with my 14 stone arse. Would it be
    > difficult to take the cassette off my old wheel and stick it on a new one (any special tools etc)?
    > Should I replace the cassette chain etc(my bikes done 1500 miles)?

    It should be possible to re-rim the wheel. All but the very nastiest rims are now box section,
    rerimming will allow you to keep your hub. You can either get this done at your LBS (who will
    probably charge you £9 again, plus the cost of the rim; Whether to replace the spokes or not is a
    bit of a religious topic) or you can bite the bullet and buy yourself a spoke key.

    > What would be the best online bike shop to buy from (whats the customer service like from Leisure
    > Lakes, Wiggler etc), or would you suggest I pay extra at my LBS?

    Many wheels need truing after a month or so of use, this is why many bike shops will tell you to
    bring them back after a while and they'll retrue them for free. If you get a wheel online, you may
    end up having to pay for it to be retrued locally (unless you do it yourself). That said, if you
    manage to find a well built wheel online, it shouldn't need retruing.

    --
    Huw Pritchard Replace bounce with huw to reply by mail
     
  5. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    "Huw Pritchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > Entirely possible. A wheel has three possible states: True, out of true and wanged. I guess yours
    > was wanged.

    Is that a technical term? :)

    > Many wheels need truing after a month or so of use, this is why many bike shops will tell you to
    > bring them back after a while and they'll retrue them for free.

    Is that 'many badly built wheels need truing after a month or so of use'?

    cheers, clive
     
  6. J-P.S

    J-P.S Guest

    On Fri, 7 Mar 2003 12:55:45 +0000 (UTC), Ted scrawled: ) After another 40 miles on the "repaired"
    wheel, the deterioration is ) obvious. Is it possible to have damaged the wheel to the degree that
    it ) can't be straightened, or is this bloke at the LBS blagging me?

    Spoke tightening is a shady method of repairing a buckled wheel. Like a little centripetal circle of
    elastic bands, if you tighten the spokes too far then they just give. Chances are he was able to
    just about true the wheel, but your weight (if I may beg your pardon) was enough to overtighten the
    spokes and they've simply given up.

    J-P
    --
    There's a fire out on the wing And I was hoping you might ring
     
  7. Ted

    Ted Guest

    > Ted wrote:
    > > Recently, on my daily ride on my MTB to Wolverhampton, I managed to buckle my rear wheel
    >
    > How? Pothole?

    Not a pothole, I just heard a "twang" as I was riding. I must admit, however, that I have seen
    better road surfaces on Iraqi runways than on roads between Walsall and Wolverhapton.

    Ted
     
  8. Ted

    Ted Guest

    "j-p.s" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Fri, 7 Mar 2003 12:55:45 +0000 (UTC), Ted scrawled: ) After another 40 miles on the "repaired"
    > wheel, the deterioration is ) obvious. Is it possible to have damaged the wheel to the degree that
    > it ) can't be straightened, or is this bloke at the LBS blagging me?
    >
    > Spoke tightening is a shady method of repairing a buckled wheel. Like a little centripetal circle
    > of elastic bands, if you tighten the spokes too far then they just give. Chances are he was able
    > to just about true the wheel, but your weight (if I may beg your pardon)

    Look, I'm very sensetive about my weight ;-)

    Actually, I'm 6'4" and of average build - you want to try and get a bike for a 37" inside leg (or
    anything else for that matter).

    Ted
     
  9. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    Ted <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > Actually, I'm 6'4" and of average build - you want to try and get a bike for a 37" inside leg (or
    > anything else for that matter).
    >

    Well I've got another 2" on your height and finding bikes that fit has not been a
    particular problem.

    Tony

    --
    http://www.raven-family.com

    "I don't want any yes-men around me. I want everybody to tell me the truth even if it costs them
    their job."

    Samuel Goldwyn
     
  10. Peter B

    Peter B Guest

    "Huw Pritchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Whether to replace the spokes or not is a bit of a religious topic) or you can bite the bullet and
    > buy yourself a spoke
    key.

    Being a tight git I don't normally bother, but on the one I've just done I had little option as the
    nipples were frozen on most of the spokes. The braking surface was well worn which was the real
    reason for re-rimming but on a ride awhile back a spoke broke and after replacing it I found I
    couldn't true the wheel due to the frozen spokes so had to cut out and replace another 4.

    Pete
     
  11. Ted

    Ted Guest

    > > Actually, I'm 6'4" and of average build - you want to try and get a bike for a 37" inside leg
    > > (or anything else for that matter).
    > >
    >
    > Well I've got another 2" on your height and finding bikes that fit has
    not
    > been a particular problem.

    Maybe its to do with your body geometry - most of my height is on my legs.

    Ted
     
  12. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    Ted <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>> Actually, I'm 6'4" and of average build - you want to try and get a bike for a 37" inside leg
    >>> (or anything else for that matter).
    >>>
    >>
    >> Well I've got another 2" on your height and finding bikes that fit has not been a particular
    >> problem.
    >
    > Maybe its to do with your body geometry - most of my height is on my legs.
    >
    > Ted

    Legs a bit longer than yours.

    Tony

    --
    http://www.raven-family.com

    "I don't want any yes-men around me. I want everybody to tell me the truth even if it costs them
    their job."

    Samuel Goldwyn
     
  13. Dave Kahn

    Dave Kahn Guest

    On Fri, 7 Mar 2003 15:42:32 +0000 (UTC), "j-p.s" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Chances are he was able to just about true the wheel, but your weight (if I may beg your pardon)
    >was enough to overtighten the spokes and they've simply given up.

    The rider's weight does not increase the tension in the spokes; it only reduces tension in the
    lower ones.

    --
    Dave...
     
  14. Msa

    Msa Guest

    I guess yours was wanged.

    I hate these techie answers! :)

    Wanged...I'll have to remember that one Huw...well done!

    --
    Mark
    ______________________________________

    "Just ask yourself: What would Scooby Doo?"
     
  15. Dave Kahn

    Dave Kahn Guest

    On Fri, 7 Mar 2003 15:42:32 +0000 (UTC), "j-p.s" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Spoke tightening is a shady method of repairing a buckled wheel. Like a little centripetal circle
    >of elastic bands, if you tighten the spokes too far then they just give.

    You're more likely to collapse the rim than break a spoke by over-tightening. However, spokes can
    break when you tighten them, and being under such tension they can come flying out of the rim like
    an arrow so please be careful not to line your eyeball up with the end of a spoke. For this reason
    it's a good idea to keep the rim tape on while you true the wheel.

    --
    Dave...
     
  16. On Fri, 07 Mar 2003 14:34:15 +0000, Clive George did issue forth:

    >> Entirely possible. A wheel has three possible states: True, out of true and wanged. I guess yours
    >> was wanged.
    >
    > Is that a technical term? :)

    Yup. Defined as when you have to crank some of the spokes up to "Nnnnnnnnnnnnngh", and you still
    can't get the rim's lateral wottsit sorted out.

    > Is that 'many badly built wheels need truing after a month or so of use'?

    I think that's what I meant.

    Talking about wheelbuilding before you've had your usual dose of coffee is a bad idea! ;-)

    --
    Huw Pritchard Replace bounce with huw to reply by mail
     
  17. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    >> Whether to replace the spokes or not is a bit of a religious topic)

    Jobst Brandt (author of The Bicycle Wheel) advises using the existing spokes.

    --
    ~PB FA: 62cm Ti frame: http://tinyurl.com/6stt
     
  18. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Ted wrote:
    >>> Recently, on my daily ride on my MTB to Wolverhampton, I managed to buckle my rear wheel
    >>
    >> How? Pothole?
    >
    > Not a pothole, I just heard a "twang" as I was riding.

    In that case, I reckon it's worth getting the wheel retensioned and trued one more time by another
    mechanic. But if that fails, I would then cut my losses and replace the rim (or possibly whole wheel
    if cheap one).

    --
    ~PB FA: 62cm Ti frame: http://tinyurl.com/6stt
     
  19. J-P.S

    J-P.S Guest

    On Fri, 07 Mar 2003 21:58:39 +0000, Dave Kahn scrawled: ) The rider's weight does not increase the
    tension in the spokes; it ) only reduces tension in the lower ones.

    While doing that it must decrease their extension by a slight displacement of the hub, surely?
    Force as a function of extended length and all that. If the hub is displaced then the upper spokes
    must therefore have an increased extension, the vector sum of all these forces equalling the
    rider's weight.

    J-P
    --
    Then it will conveniently Urinate in the Palm of your hand!!! Believe me my friend!!! Hand Held
    Technology just got a whole lot WARMER!!!
     
  20. J-P.S

    J-P.S Guest

    On Fri, 7 Mar 2003 21:25:34 -0000, Tony Raven scrawled: ) > Maybe its to do with your body geometry
    - most of my height is on my legs. ) ) Legs a bit longer than yours.

    "Fight! Fight! Fight!"

    I've never seen a leg fight. The reception for Polvesojamees24 is always poor and you can never get
    it on cable.

    J-P
    --
    "Every time you feel 'is it worth the trouble that will be caused by printing this piece?' and every
    time the editor says, 'Well, perhaps we should wait for a more opportune time', you can suddenly
    feel Orwell reproaching you, and then you remember why you came into the journalism business in the
    first place."
     
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