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A little OT- Jer****y Cla**son

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UK and Europe
Published
24 May 2004
Last activity
10 June 2004
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Al_mossah
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166
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  1. On the basis that it pays to know one's enemy, I usually
    watch Top Gear. Last night there were two bits which amused
    me. Firstly, Jeremy and the boys don't like the government's
    new plans for penalty points when caught speeding by
    cameras. Pay attention at the back there, because this logic
    is compelling. By getting only two points when "just "
    exceeding the limit, the government will therefore get more
    money from a driver before eventually the driver reaches the
    12 points and is banned! By a leap of logic, this apparently
    proves that the purpose of the cameras is to generate
    revenue. Therefore, the final link, they are nothing to do
    with road-safety.

    In the same diatribe, Jeremy talked about losing one's job
    and livelihood as a consequence of being banned. Of course,
    only a muesli-eating-vegetarian Grauniad reader would
    suggest that the cause of lost job and livelihood was the
    driver's inability to notice on at least four occasions big
    yellow boxes with strange flashy-things mounted by the side
    of the road, but as I'm not a vegetarian nor a Grauniad
    reader I couldn't possibly support that thesis. I do,
    however, eat muesli and ride a bike, not normally at the
    same time, so therefore am probably a nazi.

    The other amusing bit was the bit at the end when the three
    presenters each had to drive a cheap car into a brick wall
    at 30mph. Jeremy's had a broken speedo, so he had to
    estimate his speed. And yes, he actually drove into the wall
    at 40mph, thus proving that at least one unreconstructed petrol-
    head can't estimate what 30mph is like, even when driving
    straight at a brick wall when one would expect him to err on
    the slow-side if only to prevent damage to his perm!

    I was rather disappointed, as watching films has led me
    to believe that a car always explodes when hitting a
    wall. Damn!

    Peter

  2. "al_Mossah" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The other amusing bit was the bit at the end when the
    three presenters


    each

    Quoted message said:

    had to drive a cheap car into a brick wall at 30mph.
    Jeremy's had a


    broken

    Quoted message said:

    speedo, so he had to estimate his speed. And yes, he
    actually drove into the wall at 40mph, thus proving that
    at least one unreconstructed petrol-head can't estimate
    what 30mph is like, even when driving straight


    at

    Quoted message said:

    a brick wall when one would expect him to err on the slow-
    side if only to prevent damage to his perm!

    What's left of it.

    Anyway, what was the trick with the driving into a brick
    wall business? They can't have actually done what you said ,
    can they, or were the bricks plastic and loose or something?

    --

    Simon M.

  3. "al_Mossah" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On the basis that it pays to know one's enemy, I usually
    watch Top Gear. Last night there were two bits which
    amused me. Firstly, Jeremy and the boys don't like the
    government's new plans for penalty points when caught
    speeding by cameras. Pay attention at the back there,
    because this logic


    is

    Quoted message said:

    compelling. By getting only two points when "just "
    exceeding the limit,


    the

    Quoted message said:

    government will therefore get more money from a driver
    before eventually


    the

    Quoted message said:

    driver reaches the 12 points and is banned! By a leap of
    logic, this apparently proves that the purpose of the
    cameras is to generate revenue. Therefore, the final link,
    they are nothing to do with road-safety.

    And how is the logic (aside from possibly the final link
    which is tenuous) incorrect?

    The government, if they keep the current fine
    structure, will make 50% more before a driver is banned
    then they do now.

  4. How are you spelling "Jeremy"?!

    Quoted message said:

    On the basis that it pays to know one's enemy, I usually
    watch Top Gear. Last night there were two bits which
    amused me. Firstly, Jeremy and the boys don't like the
    government's new plans for penalty points when caught
    speeding by cameras. Pay attention at the back there,
    because this logic is compelling. By getting only two
    points when "just " exceeding the limit, the government
    will therefore get more money from a driver before
    eventually the driver reaches the 12 points and is banned!

    I like this logic that all drivers speed and will therefore
    always end up getting banned...

    Quoted message said:

    I do, however, eat muesli and ride a bike, not normally at
    the same time, so therefore am probably a nazi.

    Errr...yes. I must have missed the bit at school with the
    archive film of the top Reichsmen tucking into Alpen...

    Quoted message said:

    The other amusing bit was the bit at the end when the
    three presenters each had to drive a cheap car into a
    brick wall at 30mph.

    Presumably a stunt non-mortarred wall of non-bricks?

    Quoted message said:

    Jeremy's had a broken speedo, so he had to estimate his
    speed. And yes, he actually drove into the wall at 40mph,
    thus proving that at least one unreconstructed petrol-head
    can't estimate what 30mph is like, even when driving
    straight at a brick wall

    ...and in an old and presumably noisy car...

    Quoted message said:

    when one would expect him to err on the slow-side if only
    to prevent damage to his perm!

    Quoted message said:

    I was rather disappointed, as watching films has led me
    to believe that a car always explodes when hitting a
    wall. Damn!

    No, that's mostly restricted to US vehicles, which explode
    in a series of spectacular fireballs if all wheels leave the
    ground simultaneously. Except the General, of course.

    --
    Mark.

  5. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Simon Mason said:
    Quoted message said:

    the wall at 40mph, thus proving that at least one
    unreconstructed petrol-head can't estimate what 30mph is
    like, even when driving straight

    I doubt anyone could tell the difference between 30mph and
    40mph in an unfamiliar vehicle. Indeed, I challenge any
    cyclist to estimate their speed +/- 25% without instruments.
    Inability to judge speed without a speedometer was a
    constant theme for railway accidents through until the wide-
    spread fitment of instruments.

    Quoted message said:

    Anyway, what was the trick with the driving into a brick
    wall business? They can't have actually done what you said
    , can they, or were the bricks plastic and loose or
    something?

    They were vaguely loose and set into lossy sand and gravel.
    However, although I wouldn't be keen to try 30mph->0 rapidly
    in a Rover 416, in a Volvo 760 or post-facelift Audi 80,
    especially with a helmet and a HANS device, you'd not come
    to much harm if the impact is at 90 degrees to a wall which
    has a small amount of give in it.

    30mph is about 13m/s

    v^2 = u^2 - 2as

    v is 0, u is 13, s is say 1m (damage to wall plus intrusion
    into crumble zone plus stretch in seatbelt). Solving for a
    gives about 9g. Solving back for t gives about 150ms.

    JC forgot to let go of the steering wheel and broke his
    thumb: a common motorsport accident.

    More seriously, no-one's picked up on _why_ he was able to
    buy that heap for a quid. Something of an unintended
    consequence, I suggest.

    ian

  6. al_Mossah said:

    On the basis that it pays to know one's enemy, I usually
    watch Top Gear. Last night there were two bits which
    amused me. Firstly, Jeremy and the boys don't like the
    government's new plans for penalty points when caught
    speeding by cameras. Pay attention at the back there,
    because this logic is compelling. By getting only two
    points when "just " exceeding the limit, the government
    will therefore get more money from a driver before
    eventually the driver reaches the 12 points and is banned!
    By a leap of logic, this apparently proves that the
    purpose of the cameras is to generate revenue. Therefore,
    the final link, they are nothing to do with road-safety.

    I suppose they think an automatic ban with every two points
    and a longer one at twelve points is preferable, do they?

    --
    Michael MacClancy Random putdown - "He loves nature in spite
    of what it did to him." - Forrest Tucker
    www.macclancy.demon.co.uk www.macclancy.co.uk

  7. "Ian G Batten" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    More seriously, no-one's picked up on _why_ he was able to
    buy that heap for a quid. Something of an unintended
    consequence, I suggest.

    If the reason given is correct, it's astounding - I shall be
    heading down to my local Volvo dealer...

    Surely the parts/bits are worth more then a £1....

  8. Ian G Batten said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Simon

    Mason said:
    Quoted message said:

    the wall at 40mph, thus proving that at least one
    unreconstructed petrol-head can't estimate what 30mph is
    like, even when driving straight

    I doubt anyone could tell the difference between 30mph and
    40mph in an unfamiliar vehicle. Indeed, I challenge any
    cyclist to estimate their speed +/- 25% without
    instruments.

    I think what you mean is 30mph +/- 10mph ie 30mph +/- 33%.
    And I guess most cyclists could estimate their speed to +/-
    10mph. It's probably much harder estimating your speed at
    3mph +/- 1mph.

    --
    Michael MacClancy Random putdown - "I have never killed a
    man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." -
    Clarence Darrow www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
    www.macclancy.co.uk

  9. On Mon, 24 May 2004 14:26:20 +0100, "dwb" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    "Ian G Batten" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    More seriously, no-one's picked up on _why_ he was able
    to buy that heap for a quid. Something of an unintended
    consequence, I suggest.

    If the reason given is correct, it's astounding - I shall
    be heading down to my local Volvo dealer...

    Surely the parts/bits are worth more then a £1....

    I always thought that anything running was sent to the
    auctions. Only a year or so ago a colleague took an MOT
    failed Fiesta to the local garage as part of a deal - they
    said they would probably get £150 for it because it had a
    month left of the old MOT, despite the fact that the front
    end was completely rotted through.

    Gareth

  10. al_Mossah said:

    I was rather disappointed, as watching films has led me
    to believe that a car always explodes when hitting a
    wall. Damn!

    Getting a car to blow up satisfactorily usually requires a
    considerable quantity of explosives. I hasten to add that I
    know this as a result of gatecrashing a demonstration
    wherein an FX bloke was demonstrating this to a pack of film
    students, not from any nocturnal motorcar destruction
    sessions...

    --

    Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk
    ===========================================================
    Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
    bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.uk
    ===========================================================

  11. al_Mossah said:

    I was rather disappointed, as watching films has led me
    to believe that a car always explodes when hitting a
    wall. Damn!

    Getting a car to blow up satisfactorily usually requires a
    considerable quantity of explosives. I hasten to add that I
    know this as a result of gatecrashing a demonstration
    wherein an FX bloke was demonstrating this to a pack of film
    students, not from any nocturnal motorcar destruction
    sessions...

    --

    Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk
    ===========================================================
    Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
    bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.uk
    ===========================================================

  12. al_Mossah ([email hidden]) wrote:
    : The other amusing bit was the bit at the end when the
    : three presenters each had to drive a cheap car into a
    : brick wall at 30mph. Jeremy's had a broken speedo, so
    : he had to estimate his speed. And yes, he actually
    : drove into the wall at 40mph, thus proving that at
    : least one unreconstructed petrol-head can't estimate
    : what 30mph is like,

    He was in an unfamiliar car and driving on a wide disused
    airfield where there's no other traffic to help make
    judgements. Blair.

  13. in message <[email hidden]>, dwb

    (') said:

    And how is the logic (aside from possibly the final link
    which is tenuous) incorrect?

    If drivers have sufficient intelligence to LEARN FROM
    EXPERIENCE, after they receive the first fine and points)
    they'll drive more carefully and never have another. So the
    government gets less money, not more. This scheme is only a
    money-making one for the government if the whole driving
    population is terminally stupid.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke)
    jasmine.org.uk~simon

    ;; IE 3 is dead, but Netscape 4 still shambles about
    the earth, ;; wreaking a horrific vengeance upon the
    living ;; anonymous

  14. On Mon, 24 May 2004 12:47:25 +0000 (UTC), "al_Mossah"
    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    The other amusing bit was the bit at the end when the three
    presenters each had to drive a cheap car into a brick wall
    at 30mph. Jeremy's had a broken speedo, so he had to
    estimate his speed. And yes, he actually drove into the
    wall at 40mph, thus proving that at least one
    unreconstructed petrol-head can't estimate what 30mph is
    like, even when driving straight at a brick wall when one
    would expect him to err on the slow-side if only to prevent
    damage to his perm!

    What amused me was that the wall demolished two of the cars,
    but the third[1] not only took out the wall and Carkson's
    thumb, but lived to tell the tale :-D

    [1] Of course it was! (a Volvo, that is)

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

  15. On Mon, 24 May 2004 12:47:25 +0000 (UTC), "al_Mossah"
    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    The other amusing bit was the bit at the end when the three
    presenters each had to drive a cheap car into a brick wall
    at 30mph. Jeremy's had a broken speedo, so he had to
    estimate his speed. And yes, he actually drove into the
    wall at 40mph, thus proving that at least one
    unreconstructed petrol-head can't estimate what 30mph is
    like, even when driving straight at a brick wall when one
    would expect him to err on the slow-side if only to prevent
    damage to his perm!

    What amused me was that the wall demolished two of the cars,
    but the third[1] not only took out the wall and Carkson's
    thumb, but lived to tell the tale :-D

    [1] Of course it was! (a Volvo, that is)

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

  16. On Mon, 24 May 2004 14:06:08 +0100, Mark Tranchant
    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Jeremy's had a broken speedo, so he had to estimate his
    speed. And yes, he actually drove into the wall at 40mph,
    thus proving that at least one unreconstructed petrol-
    head can't estimate what 30mph is like, even when driving
    straight at a brick wall

    Quoted message said:

    ...and in an old and presumably noisy car...

    It was a Volvo 740 by the looks of things. Not especially
    quiet but not outrageously loud either.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

  17. On Mon, 24 May 2004 14:06:08 +0100, Mark Tranchant
    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Jeremy's had a broken speedo, so he had to estimate his
    speed. And yes, he actually drove into the wall at 40mph,
    thus proving that at least one unreconstructed petrol-
    head can't estimate what 30mph is like, even when driving
    straight at a brick wall

    Quoted message said:

    ...and in an old and presumably noisy car...

    It was a Volvo 740 by the looks of things. Not especially
    quiet but not outrageously loud either.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

  18. Simon Brooke said:

    If drivers have sufficient intelligence to LEARN FROM
    EXPERIENCE, after they receive the first fine and points)
    they'll drive more carefully and never have another. So
    the government gets less money, not more. This scheme is
    only a money-making one for the government if the whole
    driving population is terminally stupid.

    Not true Simon, it only needs a significant percentage to be
    terminally stupid. Now, what level actually /is/
    "significant" is, as always, up for debate, but it's not
    beyond the realms of fantasy we're there... ;-/

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
    33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
    Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
    dundee.ac.uk~pjclinch

  19. Simon Brooke said:

    If drivers have sufficient intelligence to LEARN FROM
    EXPERIENCE, after they receive the first fine and points)
    they'll drive more carefully and never have another. So
    the government gets less money, not more. This scheme is
    only a money-making one for the government if the whole
    driving population is terminally stupid.

    Not true Simon, it only needs a significant percentage to be
    terminally stupid. Now, what level actually /is/
    "significant" is, as always, up for debate, but it's not
    beyond the realms of fantasy we're there... ;-/

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
    33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
    Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
    dundee.ac.uk~pjclinch

  20. Very enlightening was the braking test though that showed
    that even an old car bought for £1 can beat the highway
    code braking distances (not including thinking distances)
    by a factor of nearly 2 and even the worst with very dodgy
    looking brakes made it well inside. The merc the previous
    week managed to brake from 120mph in the highway code
    60mph distance.

    Time the highway code was updated ?

    Russ

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