A size problem

Peter Moran said:

You learn something new every day. I always thought flukes
were very small, but the one that Hulda claims to be the
cause of cancer etc can grow to 8 cm (over three inches)
in length. Somewhat hard to miss at autopsy or surgery.

biosci.ohio-biosci.ohio-Open ↗
state.edu/~parasite/fasciolopsis.html

Peter Moran

I"ve researched this many times and meant to ask or tell
you, here's my understanding. Flukes may be a risk factor
for cirrhosis, cirrhosis is listed as one of the risk
factors for "liver cancer" at the NCI website.
cancer.govliverOpen ↗ They also
mention parasites as a risk factor.

So from there I ask, where are these flukes and who is most
commonly affected by primary liver cancers?

and please note flukes mention with "cholangiocarcinoma"

oncologychannel.comhepatobiliaryOpen ↗ Approximately
1 million new cases of liver and biliary tract cancer are
diagnosed around the globe every year. Incidence rates vary
by country, although several areas are considered
"hotspots." These include China, Japan, and Sub-Saharan
Africa. It is believed the high rates in these regions may
be associated with hepatitis B and/or mycotoxin
contamination of foodstuffs, stored grains, drinking water,
and soil. Although tumors of the liver and biliary tract are
among the most common tumors worldwide, they are relatively
rare in the United States—approximately 15,000 new cases
annually, resulting in about 12,000 deaths. Of these new
cases, roughly half (7000) are tumors of the gallbladder, a
third (5000) are tumors of the extrahepatic and intrahepatic
biliary ducts, and the remainder (approx. 3000) are
cancerous growths of the liver called primary hepatocellular
carcinomas (HCCs), or primary liver cancer.

merck.com4Open ↗
7c.jsp OTHER PRIMARY LIVER CANCERS Fibrolamellar carcinoma
is a distinct variant of hepatocellular carcinoma with
characteristic morphology of malignant hepatocytes enmeshed
in lamellar fibrous tissue. It usually occurs in young
adults and has no association with preexisting cirrhosis,
HBV or HCV, or other known risk factors. -Fetoprotein levels
are only uncommonly elevated. The prognosis is better than
for hepatocellular carcinoma, and some patients survive
several years after tumor resection.

Cholangiocarcinoma, a tumor arising from biliary epithelium,
is common in China, where underlying infestation with liver
flukes is believed partially responsible. Elsewhere, it is
less common than hepatocellular carcinoma. Histologic
overlap between the two may occur. Patients with long-
standing ulcerative colitis and sclerosing cholangitis
occasionally develop cholangiocarcinoma. Hepatoblastoma is a
common cancer in infants. It occasionally presents with
precocious puberty caused by ectopic gonadotropin
production, but it is usually detected because of failing
systemic health and a right upper quadrant mass. The rare
angiosarcoma has attracted attention because of an
association with industrial exposure to vinyl chloride.

Diagnosis of these tumors is based on histology. Therapy is
usually of little value, and the prognosis is poor.[end
quoted material] J

Peter Moran said:

You learn something new every day. I always thought flukes
were very small, but the one that Hulda claims to be the
cause of cancer etc can grow to 8 cm (over three inches)
in length. Somewhat hard to miss at autopsy or surgery.

biosci.ohio-biosci.ohio-Open ↗
state.edu/~parasite/fasciolopsis.html

Peter Moran

To continue, so where are "liver flukes" besides places
like Asia ? probably Australia, South America etc, (but
with the warming effect which is bringing odd weather
changes to more northerly areas of the world...)
vetmed.ufl.eduflukes.htmOpen ↗
(in the US)

How are they transmitted? Well snails are an intermediate
host vetmed.ucdavis.eduINFOpen ↗
BE_cca00/INF-BE_cca0011.html

meat midwest.fws.govfluke.htmlOpen ↗ and
I think I saw mention of ova in feces.

So eating improperly cooked meats? drinking water where
infected feces may be? eating or accidentally swallowing
live snails? Some countries bathe and drink or use cooking
water out of rivers where cattle etc also bathe..

So if Hulda is the zapper thing, maybe the studies should be
longterm as to whether "zappers" kill flukes or ova in
humans? (which I really doubt, unless the zapper was full-
strength against the fluke itself inside the body, not
outside the body).

From there I ask, is there a market for this in China (if it
did work)? Probably not, they've got bigger problems to
worry about like putting food (any food) and water on the
table. So there'll probably never be studies or maybe there
were since Merck mentions flukes? J

"J" <jarretiè[email protected]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Moran said:

You learn something new every day. I always thought
flukes were very

small,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but the one that Hulda claims to be the cause of cancer
etc can grow to

8 cm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(over three inches) in length. Somewhat hard to miss at
autopsy or surgery.

biosci.ohio-biosci.ohio-Open ↗
state.edu/~parasite/fasciolopsis.html

Peter Moran

To continue, so where are "liver flukes" besides places
like Asia ? probably Australia,

South

Quoted message said:

America etc,

Not Australia, despite the usual high prevalence of cancer
in civilised countries, and I doubt South America. I
haven't looked it up but I think rice paddies or at least
very moist tropical environments are involved in the life
cycle of most flukes.

Quoted message said:

(but with the warming effect which is bringing odd weather
changes to more northerly areas of the world...)
vetmed.ufl.eduflukes.htmOpen ↗
(in the US)

How are they transmitted? Well snails are an
intermediate host

vetmed.ucdavis.eduINFOpen ↗
BE_cca00/INF-BE_cca0011.html

Quoted message said:

meat midwest.fws.govfluke.htmlOpen ↗
and I think I saw mention of ova in feces.

So eating improperly cooked meats? drinking water where
infected feces may

be?

Quoted message said:

eating or accidentally swallowing live snails? Some
countries bathe and

drink

Quoted message said:

or use cooking water out of rivers where cattle etc
also bathe..

So if Hulda is the zapper thing, maybe the studies should
be longterm as

to

Quoted message said:

whether "zappers" kill flukes or ova in humans? (which I
really doubt,

unless

Quoted message said:

the zapper was full-strength against the fluke itself
inside the body, not outside the body).

The zapper won't even cause a nerve or muscle twitch, so it
is hard to see it producing enough current to damage
anything, even if it happened to be the principal current
pathway through the body.

Hulda as always, has to go over the top. She is now into
"plate zapping" where using pathology slides along with teh
zapper people can zap their left adrenal gland or pituitary,
or whatever.

Peter Moran

Quoted message said:

From there I ask, is there a market for this in China (if
it did work)? Probably not, they've got bigger problems to
worry about like putting food

(any

Quoted message said:

food) and water on the table. So there'll probably never
be studies or maybe there were since Merck

mentions

Quoted message said:

flukes? J

Peter,

Australia has the sheep liver fluke and Intestinal Fluke:

Sheep liver fluke: Fasciola hepatica is more common in
Central and South America, parts of Africa, Asia, and
Australia. Infection is usually acquired from eating the
larva worms encysted on such aquatic vegetation as
watercress. Worms migrate to the liver and bile ducts, where
they produce upper right quadrant abdominal pain, liver
abscesses, and fibrosis.

Intestinal fluke: Fasciolopsis buski is more common in
Southeast Asia, Australia, and Latin America. Transmission
occurs when individuals bite into the unpeeled outer skin of
plants that harbor encycsted larvae. Such plants can be
water chestnuts, bamboo shoots, and lotus plant roots
because they are often cultivated in ponds and streams
infected by animal waste. Adult flukes live in the duodenum
(the shortest and widest part of the small intestine) and
jejunum (connects the duodenum and the ileum, which opens
into the large intestine), where they cause ulceration.
Symptoms include the following: diarrhea, nausea, vomiting,
abdominal pain, as well as facial and abdominal edema.

The Fluke is abundantly found in drier regions of Australia
(the Station country). Man usually becomes infected after
ingesting insufficiently cooked fish, crustaceans, or
vegetables that contain their larvae. The cycle begins when
larvae are released into freshwater by infected snails. The
free-swimming larvae can then directly penetrate the skin of
humans while swimming or be ingested after encycsting in or
on various edible vegetation, fish, or crustaceans

The "current" used by a zapper is not the issue, it is the
frequency that is said to do the damage to bacteria/virus
and pathogens. I think Radiotherapy works on frequency and
perhaps you may care to inform us about that treatment.

Best wishes, Rod.

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:40a5af6a$0$20555$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-
02.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au...

Quoted message said:

"J" <jarretiè[email protected]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Moran said:

You learn something new every day. I always thought
flukes were very

small,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but the one that Hulda claims to be the cause of
cancer etc can grow

to

Quoted message said:

8 cm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(over three inches) in length. Somewhat hard to miss
at autopsy or surgery.

biosci.ohio-biosci.ohio-Open ↗
state.edu/~parasite/fasciolopsis.html

Peter Moran

To continue, so where are "liver flukes" besides places
like Asia ? probably

Australia,

Quoted message said:

South

Quoted message said:

America etc,

Not Australia, despite the usual high prevalence of cancer
in civilised countries, and I doubt South America. I
haven't looked it up but I think rice paddies or at least
very moist tropical environments are involved in the life
cycle of most flukes.

Quoted message said:

(but with the warming effect which is bringing odd
weather changes to

more

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

northerly areas of the world...)
vetmed.ufl.eduflukes.htmOpen ↗
(in the US)

How are they transmitted? Well snails are an
intermediate host

vetmed.ucdavis.eduINFOpen ↗
BE_cca00/INF-BE_cca0011.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

meat midwest.fws.govfluke.htmlOpen ↗
and I think I saw mention of ova in feces.

So eating improperly cooked meats? drinking water where
infected feces

may

Quoted message said:

be?

Quoted message said:

eating or accidentally swallowing live snails? Some
countries bathe and

drink

Quoted message said:

or use cooking water out of rivers where cattle etc also
bathe..

So if Hulda is the zapper thing, maybe the studies
should be longterm as

to

Quoted message said:

whether "zappers" kill flukes or ova in humans? (which I
really doubt,

unless

Quoted message said:

the zapper was full-strength against the fluke itself
inside the body,

not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

outside the body).

The zapper won't even cause a nerve or muscle twitch, so
it is hard to see it producing enough current to damage
anything, even if it happened to be the principal current
pathway through the body.

Hulda as always, has to go over the top. She is now into
"plate zapping" where using pathology slides along with
teh zapper people can zap their

left

Quoted message said:

adrenal gland or pituitary, or whatever.

Peter Moran

Quoted message said:

From there I ask, is there a market for this in China
(if it did work)? Probably not, they've got bigger
problems to worry about like putting

food

Quoted message said:

(any

Quoted message said:

food) and water on the table. So there'll probably never
be studies or maybe there were since Merck

mentions

Quoted message said:

flukes? J

"Rod" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter,

Australia has the sheep liver fluke and Intestinal Fluke:

Sheep liver fluke: Fasciola hepatica is more common in
Central and South America, parts of Africa, Asia, and
Australia. Infection is usually acquired from eating the
larva worms encysted on such aquatic vegetation as
watercress. Worms

migrate

Quoted message said:

to the liver and bile ducts, where they produce upper
right quadrant abdominal pain, liver abscesses, and
fibrosis.

Intestinal fluke: Fasciolopsis buski is more common in
Southeast Asia, Australia, and Latin America. Transmission
occurs when individuals bite into the unpeeled outer skin
of plants that harbor encycsted larvae. Such plants can be
water chestnuts, bamboo shoots, and lotus plant roots
because they are often cultivated in ponds and streams
infected by animal waste. Adult flukes

live

Quoted message said:

in the duodenum (the shortest and widest part of the small
intestine) and jejunum (connects the duodenum and the
ileum, which opens into the large intestine), where they
cause ulceration. Symptoms include the following:
diarrhea, nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, as well as
facial and

abdominal

Quoted message said:

edema.

The Fluke is abundantly found in drier regions of
Australia (the Station country). Man usually becomes
infected after ingesting insufficiently cooked fish,
crustaceans, or vegetables that contain their larvae. The
cycle begins

when

Quoted message said:

larvae are released into freshwater by infected snails.
The free-swimming larvae can then directly penetrate the
skin of humans while swimming or be ingested after
encycsting in or on various edible vegetation, fish, or
crustaceans

Thanks for this. Although I have been reading the Australian
Medical Journal and practising in Australia for about thirty
years, I don't recall seeing a case of liver fluke infection
reported in humans, regardless of the claimed prevalence of
the fluke. Barramundi is also our most prized fish, and I
have never heard any cautions made concerning the eating of
this fish, which occurs in the freshwater habitats
described. So human infection must be a very rare occurrence
even here.

That is the whole point, as Hulda's theories require it to
be present in all cancer patients, even those in Melbourne.

Quoted message said:

The "current" used by a zapper is not the issue, it is the
frequency that

is

Quoted message said:

said to do the damage to bacteria/virus and
pathogens. I think

Radiotherapy

Quoted message said:

works on frequency and perhaps you may care to inform us
about that treatment.

Radiotherapy works via beams of subatomic particles with a
certain energy. The "energy" of the current also has to be a
factor in the effectiveness of anything that "works" via
frequency. But Zapper theory is so vague and so unsupported
by experimental data that it is virtually impossible to
discuss it meaningfully. The obvious experiments have never
been done.

Peter Moran

In article
<[email hidden]
om.au>,

Peter Moran said:

"Rod" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:5Ajpc.39146$TT.28622@news-
server.bigpond.net.au...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The "current" used by a zapper is not the issue, it is
the frequency that

is

Quoted message said:

said to do the damage to bacteria/virus and pathogens.
I think

Radiotherapy

Quoted message said:

works on frequency and perhaps you may care to inform us
about that treatment.

Radiotherapy works via beams of subatomic particles with a
certain energy. The "energy" of the current also has to be
a factor in the effectiveness of anything that "works" via
frequency. But Zapper theory is so vague and so
unsupported by experimental data that it is virtually
impossible to discuss it meaningfully. The obvious
experiments have never been done.

However, the Zapper can convincingly be argued not to
work solely on the basis of physics. Simply put, its
energy output is too low to kill anything, much less a
mysterious fluke.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do
|you inconvenience me with questions?"