About the LBS

Tom Nakashima said:

What would you do in this case?
This actually happened to me.
I was in one of my favorite LBS, where I know the owner. A gal walked in
with her road bike and wanted her shimano ultegra dual pivot front brake
caliper centered, because it was touching on one side of the rim. One of
the service guys (not the owner) said he could do it for $15.00, but said
she had to leave the bike and pick it up in a few hours. Most everyone
here knows, that the ultegra brake caliper can be adjusted in seconds with
no tools for centering. The gal also happened to be in our bike club. I
was tempted to save her some money and adjust it for her, but thought I
better not interfere.

I see this sort of thing from time to time. Clearly stepping in would
[censored] the guy at the shop, but $15 to adjust a dual-pivot brake is
petty theft. Certainly talk to her later on, and put that shop a bit
further down your list of favorites.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Do not worry about your difficulties in mathematics, I can
_`\(,_ | assure you that mine are all greater. -- A. Einstein
(_)/ (_) |

Tom Nakashima said:

What would you do in this case?
This actually happened to me.
I was in one of my favorite LBS, where I know the owner. A gal walked in
with her road bike and wanted her shimano ultegra dual pivot front brake
caliper centered, because it was touching on one side of the rim. One of
the service guys (not the owner) said he could do it for $15.00, but said
she had to leave the bike and pick it up in a few hours. Most everyone
here knows, that the ultegra brake caliper can be adjusted in seconds with
no tools for centering. The gal also happened to be in our bike club. I
was tempted to save her some money and adjust it for her, but thought I
better not interfere.

I see this sort of thing from time to time. Clearly stepping in would
[censored] the guy at the shop, but $15 to adjust a dual-pivot brake is
petty theft. Certainly talk to her later on, and put that shop a bit
further down your list of favorites.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Do not worry about your difficulties in mathematics, I can
_`\(,_ | assure you that mine are all greater. -- A. Einstein
(_)/ (_) |

Same thing happened to me, mine started rubbing during a ride, I stopped by
my LBS which is right on the trail I ride and he adjusted it for one dollar!
Even worse than what this lady experienced we have a few shops in town that
charge a minimum of $40 for service!

"Tom Nakashima" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What would you do in this case?
This actually happened to me.
I was in one of my favorite LBS, where I know the owner. A gal walked in
with her road bike and wanted her shimano ultegra dual pivot front brake
caliper centered, because it was touching on one side of the rim. One of
the service guys (not the owner) said he could do it for $15.00, but said
she had to leave the bike and pick it up in a few hours. Most everyone
here
knows, that the ultegra brake caliper can be adjusted in seconds with no
tools for centering. The gal also happened to be in our bike club. I was
tempted to save her some money and adjust it for her, but thought I better
not interfere.
-tom

tom-<< I was in one of my favorite LBS, where I know the owner. A gal walked
in
with her road bike and wanted her shimano ultegra dual pivot front brake
caliper centered, because it was touching on one side of the rim. One of
the service guys (not the owner) said he could do it for $15.00, but said
she had to leave the bike and pick it up in a few hours. Most everyone here
knows, that the ultegra brake caliper can be adjusted in seconds with no
tools for centering. The gal also happened to be in our bike club. I was
tempted to save her some money and adjust it for her, but thought I better
not interfere.
-tom

Talk to the owner. If he agrees with the wrench, find a new bike shop, tell him
why.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

tom-<< I was in one of my favorite LBS, where I know the owner. A gal

walked

Quoted message said:

in
with her road bike and wanted her shimano ultegra dual pivot front brake
caliper centered, because it was touching on one side of the rim. One of
the service guys (not the owner) said he could do it for $15.00, but said
she had to leave the bike and pick it up in a few hours. Most everyone

here

Quoted message said:

knows, that the ultegra brake caliper can be adjusted in seconds with no
tools for centering. The gal also happened to be in our bike club. I was
tempted to save her some money and adjust it for her, but thought I better
not interfere.
-tom

Talk to the owner. If he agrees with the wrench, find a new bike shop,

tell him

Quoted message said:

why.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

I'ts not heavy on my mind, but I know the owner of the shop and the service
worker. What I don't know is, if the owner told him to charge for the gal's
brake adjustment. I don't want to cause friction between myself and the
LBS, and friction between the service worker and the owner. My Dad always
said, if it's none of your business, stay out of it. Sometimes, what you
don't know, don't ask. I figured the gal in our club got her brake centered
for $15.00 and I'll leave it at that. The thing that bothers me the most,
is this gal doesn't have money to burn, she's pretty quiet and honest, and
I'm sure the service worker or the owner doesn't know this. If I tell the
gal about the brake adjustment and how easy it is to do it, she might have
ill feelings towards the LBS and feel that she got ripped off.
-tom

Tom Nakashima said:

What would you do in this case?
This actually happened to me.
I was in one of my favorite LBS, where I know the owner. A gal walked in
with her road bike and wanted her shimano ultegra dual pivot front brake
caliper centered, because it was touching on one side of the rim. One of
the service guys (not the owner) said he could do it for $15.00, but said
she had to leave the bike and pick it up in a few hours. Most everyone here
knows, that the ultegra brake caliper can be adjusted in seconds with no
tools for centering. The gal also happened to be in our bike club. I was
tempted to save her some money and adjust it for her, but thought I better
not interfere.

If you are confident of yoru mechanical ability, I would urge you to
interfere by showing her how to do it herself.

JT

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John Forrest Tomlinson said:

If you are confident of yoru mechanical ability, I would urge you to
interfere by showing her how to do it herself.

Sorry to reply to my own post, but I should clarify by saying I don't
mean interfere directly by criticising the shop, but instead show this
rider how to do the work herself. It's her call if the shop feel is
worth it once she knows how simply the work is.

JT

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"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

If you are confident of yoru mechanical ability, I would urge

you to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

interfere by showing her how to do it herself.

Sorry to reply to my own post, but I should clarify by saying I

don't

Quoted message said:

mean interfere directly by criticising the shop, but instead

show this

Quoted message said:

rider how to do the work herself. It's her call if the shop

feel is

Quoted message said:

worth it once she knows how simply the work is.

No shop should charge for two seconds of pivoting a caliper.
That is work that should be performed free for the purpose of
building good will. If I wanted to please everyone, I would have
called the woman over and explained to her out of earshot of the
mechanic that she could do the work in two seconds without tools.
She could then draw her own conclusions about the shop, or about
the mechanic. If I did not care about the shop, I would have
screamed "you're kidding, $15 for nothing -- and keeping the bike
overnight. That's [censored]. It's a two second job." Then I
would have talked to the woman, while running from the shop. --
Jay Beattie.

Jay Beattie said:

No shop should charge for two seconds of pivoting a caliper.

i love this stuff. if a business was run this way, it would
be out-of-business in no time. everybody wants
something for free. when you touch something
you implicitly guarantee your work. who would
provide a guarantee for free? even if she just
dropped in a day or two later cause it
wasn't "quite right", they'd waste more time.
should that be free too?

please. be willing to pay for anything
you can't/won't do yourself. pay for knowledge.
....thehick

"frank-in-toronto" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jay Beattie said:

No shop should charge for two seconds of pivoting a caliper.

i love this stuff. if a business was run this way, it would
be out-of-business in no time. everybody wants
something for free. when you touch something
you implicitly guarantee your work. who would
provide a guarantee for free? even if she just
dropped in a day or two later cause it
wasn't "quite right", they'd waste more time.
should that be free too?

please. be willing to pay for anything
you can't/won't do yourself. pay for knowledge.
...thehick

thehick sounds like an ambulance chaser. Sometimes a little goodwill can go
a very long way. So can a little bad will. If I became aware that my LBS
had done that to someone, you can be sure I'd take my business elsewhere --
and my business is formidable. What that employee did was take advantage of
someone ... ripped them off. Pure and simple. I wouldn't hesitate for a
second to call them on it. I'd laugh and smile and yuk it up to take the
edge off, but I'd make my point, too. That's a screw job (pardon the pun).

Bob C.

"frank-in-toronto" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jay Beattie said:

No shop should charge for two seconds of pivoting a caliper.

i love this stuff. if a business was run this way, it would
be out-of-business in no time. everybody wants
something for free. when you touch something
you implicitly guarantee your work. who would
provide a guarantee for free? even if she just
dropped in a day or two later cause it
wasn't "quite right", they'd waste more time.
should that be free too?

please. be willing to pay for anything
you can't/won't do yourself. pay for knowledge.
...thehick

Funny. That's the way my father ran our family business. That
is the way I run my business. I give free advice all of the
time. I get paying customers that way. I refuse to deal with
everyone as a profit center and to charge for common courtesy. --
Jay Beattie.

David L. Johnson said:

Tom Nakashima said:

What would you do in this case?
This actually happened to me.
I was in one of my favorite LBS, where I know the owner. A gal walked in
with her road bike and wanted her shimano ultegra dual pivot front brake
caliper centered, because it was touching on one side of the rim. One of
the service guys (not the owner) said he could do it for $15.00, but said
she had to leave the bike and pick it up in a few hours. Most everyone
here knows, that the ultegra brake caliper can be adjusted in seconds with
no tools for centering. The gal also happened to be in our bike club. I
was tempted to save her some money and adjust it for her, but thought I
better not interfere.

For the OP, Why not save the whole club some money and do a bit of a seminar on
bike tuning instead of a club ride or scheduled with a ride.

Quoted message said:

I see this sort of thing from time to time. Clearly stepping in would
[censored] the guy at the shop, but $15 to adjust a dual-pivot brake is
petty theft. Certainly talk to her later on, and put that shop a bit
further down your list of favorites.

Okay, I'm not a bike mechanic, please fill me in:

How do you earn a living if not by charging people to work on their bikes?

Ron

Tom Nakashima said:

I'ts not heavy on my mind, but I know the owner of the shop and the service
worker. What I don't know is, if the owner told him to charge for the gal's
brake adjustment. I don't want to cause friction between myself and the
LBS, and friction between the service worker and the owner. My Dad always
said, if it's none of your business, stay out of it. Sometimes, what you
don't know, don't ask. I figured the gal in our club got her brake centered
for $15.00 and I'll leave it at that. The thing that bothers me the most,
is this gal doesn't have money to burn, she's pretty quiet and honest, and
I'm sure the service worker or the owner doesn't know this. If I tell the
gal about the brake adjustment and how easy it is to do it, she might have
ill feelings towards the LBS and feel that she got ripped off.

Personally, I would have no qualms about telling her how to adjust it
when the opportunity presents itself. If she then concludes that the
shop was ripping her off, it's not your fault. It's also possible
that she may ask "Why didn't they show me that?" Conversely, she may
also not want to do it herself. I have noted that in the automotive
repair trade, it is common for service personnel to routinely
overcharge women for all sorts of things on the assumption that they
know nothing about automobiles...and don't want to. (Once in a while,
they discover that they're wrong, but not often enough IMO.) I would
like to believe that this sort of thing is not as common in the bike
business. I would, however, not be surprised if the person at the
bike shop was thinking "If you haven't figured out how to do that
yourself, I'm going to charge you enough to make it worth filling out
the paperwork."
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

"Jay Beattie" wrote: (clip) I give free advice all of the time. I get
paying customers that way. I refuse to deal with everyone as a profit
center and to charge for common courtesy. --
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
When I had a retail store (not bicycles), I realized, after a while, that
while you are transacting business with each customer, all the others in the
store may be listening. People's opinions of you and your store are formed,
not only by how you treat them individually, but how you treat every one
else, as well.

This is an example. The poor girl got charged $15 for what could have been
a freebie, or at most a $2 or $3 adjustment. Now, Tom, your opinion of the
store has been undermined, plus, I'll bet there are people in your club you
have also discussed it with. If you really want to do the manager a favor,
you should tell him about this, and tell him how conflicted it made you
feel. Maybe he'll offer the girl her money back, and thank you for caring.

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 14:23:46 -0700, "Tom Nakashima" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

tom-<< I was in one of my favorite LBS, where I know the owner. A gal

walked

Quoted message said:

in
with her road bike and wanted her shimano ultegra dual pivot front brake
caliper centered, because it was touching on one side of the rim. One of
the service guys (not the owner) said he could do it for $15.00, but said
she had to leave the bike and pick it up in a few hours. Most everyone

here

Quoted message said:

knows, that the ultegra brake caliper can be adjusted in seconds with no
tools for centering. The gal also happened to be in our bike club. I was
tempted to save her some money and adjust it for her, but thought I better
not interfere.
-tom

Talk to the owner. If he agrees with the wrench, find a new bike shop,

tell him

Quoted message said:

why.

Quoted message said:

><BR><BR>

I'ts not heavy on my mind, but I know the owner of the shop and the service
worker. What I don't know is, if the owner told him to charge for the gal's
brake adjustment. I don't want to cause friction between myself and the
LBS, and friction between the service worker and the owner. My Dad always
said, if it's none of your business, stay out of it. Sometimes, what you
don't know, don't ask. I figured the gal in our club got her brake centered
for $15.00 and I'll leave it at that. The thing that bothers me the most,
is this gal doesn't have money to burn, she's pretty quiet and honest, and
I'm sure the service worker or the owner doesn't know this. If I tell the
gal about the brake adjustment and how easy it is to do it, she might have
ill feelings towards the LBS and feel that she got ripped off.

Maybe my previous question didn't get out there, the news server's been flakey
lately. Why this tone that it is somehow immoral to charge money to do for
someone that which they lack tools, knowledge or temperament to do for
themselves? Okay, so it's easy. Is it wrong to charge for doing an easy job?
What happens to a shop that does free "easy" jobs all day and so wastes the time
of a competent mechanic?

I understand that a shop may want to do friendly free jobs for the purpose of
building good will and getting people in the habit of coming to that shop, but
one way or another the customers pay for all of that mechanic's labor and it
should be the ones who get the benefit of it who pay. Where do we draw the line
on what jobs must be free and which must be paid?

There must be > $X in the register at the end of the day or the shop won't be
there no matter how well-loved they once were. If they do freebies then they
make up the loss by charging others more. Now, why should the guy who needs a
bottom bracket pay for that lady's brake adjust. He will. Or she will later,
when she gets something major done, is that better than charging her more now
and less later?

Truth is, I could argue this one flat or round. Just don't get the moral tone
here. Is this just the way that LBSs have always done things?

Ron

Quoted message said:

"Tom Nakashima" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

-snip- A gal walked in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with her road bike and wanted her shimano ultegra dual pivot front brake
caliper centered, because it was touching on one side of the rim. One of
the service guys (not the owner) said he could do it for $15.00, but said
she had to leave the bike and pick it up in a few hours.-snip-

Rhesus Monkey said:

Same thing happened to me, mine started rubbing during a

ride, I stopped by

Quoted message said:

my LBS which is right on the trail I ride and he adjusted

it for one dollar!

Quoted message said:

Even worse than what this lady experienced we have a few

shops in town that

Quoted message said:

charge a minimum of $40 for service!

There is a possibility that more was involved than just
moving a caliper. We don't know. Here's one possibility -
maybe she had changed to a taller stem and the cable was too
short. Maybe the guy was indeed taking advantage. If you
had interceded, you might have seen the larger problem or
the mechanic may have relented. We'll never know now.

This is something Ghandi spoke of well- you can't judge when
you don't fully understand.

But I'll offer an opinion about a $40 minimum - BS! Do they
change flats? I'm incredulous that an LBS can adhere to that
and stay in business at all. Hanging a sign that says "$40
minimum" isn't the same as practicing it. Although such a
sign would be offensive IMHO anyway.

I frequently do similar small adjustments and point the
customer to my employees' tip jar instead of writing a
service ticket. You'd be surprised how many $5 and $10 bills
show up there! And my employees really appreciate it, too.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

RonSonic said:

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 14:23:46 -0700, "Tom Nakashima" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

tom-<< I was in one of my favorite LBS, where I know the owner. A gal

walked

Quoted message said:

in
with her road bike and wanted her shimano ultegra dual pivot front brake
caliper centered, because it was touching on one side of the rim. One of
the service guys (not the owner) said he could do it for $15.00, but said
she had to leave the bike and pick it up in a few hours. Most everyone

here

Quoted message said:

knows, that the ultegra brake caliper can be adjusted in seconds with no
tools for centering. The gal also happened to be in our bike club. I was
tempted to save her some money and adjust it for her, but thought I better
not interfere.
-tom

Talk to the owner. If he agrees with the wrench, find a new bike shop,

tell him

Quoted message said:

why.
>><BR><BR>

I'ts not heavy on my mind, but I know the owner of the shop and the service
worker. What I don't know is, if the owner told him to charge for the gal's
brake adjustment. I don't want to cause friction between myself and the
LBS, and friction between the service worker and the owner. My Dad always
said, if it's none of your business, stay out of it. Sometimes, what you
don't know, don't ask. I figured the gal in our club got her brake centered
for $15.00 and I'll leave it at that. The thing that bothers me the most,
is this gal doesn't have money to burn, she's pretty quiet and honest, and
I'm sure the service worker or the owner doesn't know this. If I tell the
gal about the brake adjustment and how easy it is to do it, she might have
ill feelings towards the LBS and feel that she got ripped off.

Maybe my previous question didn't get out there, the news server's been flakey
lately. Why this tone that it is somehow immoral to charge money to do for
someone that which they lack tools, knowledge or temperament to do for
themselves? Okay, so it's easy. Is it wrong to charge for doing an easy job?
What happens to a shop that does free "easy" jobs all day and so wastes the time
of a competent mechanic?

I understand that a shop may want to do friendly free jobs for the purpose of
building good will and getting people in the habit of coming to that shop, but
one way or another the customers pay for all of that mechanic's labor and it
should be the ones who get the benefit of it who pay. Where do we draw the line
on what jobs must be free and which must be paid?

There must be > $X in the register at the end of the day or the shop won't be
there no matter how well-loved they once were. If they do freebies then they
make up the loss by charging others more. Now, why should the guy who needs a
bottom bracket pay for that lady's brake adjust. He will. Or she will later,
when she gets something major done, is that better than charging her more now
and less later?

Truth is, I could argue this one flat or round. Just don't get the moral tone
here. Is this just the way that LBSs have always done things?

Ron

Let's put this mechanical job, adjusting the brakes, in its
perspective. What if she said, "Can you show me how this
quick release works so I can adjust my saddle height?" Hell,
that might even take longer to do than the brakes. She
didn't come in and ask for her front hub to be repacked and
the cones adjusted.

RonSonic said:

Maybe my previous question didn't get out there, the news server's
been flakey lately. Why this tone that it is somehow immoral to
charge money to do for someone that which they lack tools, knowledge
or temperament to do for themselves? Okay, so it's easy. Is it wrong
to charge for doing an easy job? What happens to a shop that does
free "easy" jobs all day and so wastes the time of a competent
mechanic?

While I normally agree with that, adjusting (centering) the brakes on a road
bike literally takes two seconds and two thumbs. (V-brakes on a mtb might
take 45 seconds.)

Right?

Bill "assuming fairly true wheel, of course" S.

Quoted message said:

RonSonic said:

Maybe my previous question didn't get out there, the news server's
been flakey lately. Why this tone that it is somehow immoral to
charge money to do for someone that which they lack tools, knowledge
or temperament to do for themselves? Okay, so it's easy. Is it wrong
to charge for doing an easy job? What happens to a shop that does
free "easy" jobs all day and so wastes the time of a competent
mechanic?

S o r n i said:

While I normally agree with that, adjusting (centering) the brakes on a road
bike literally takes two seconds and two thumbs. (V-brakes on a mtb might
take 45 seconds.)
Right?
Bill "assuming fairly true wheel, of course" S.

What if the stem had been changed and the cable was too
short? What if the bike had been dumped and the inner brake
arm was bent or cracked? What if the centerbolt was hitting
the crown race? What if the rim had a dent? Maybe he saw a
tear in the tire casing or a bruise under the tread?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971