accident liability...Help!

If it's not your fault, you're not liable for any of the cost.
Proving it's not your fault is the trick. But don't let her bully you;
she's the one with the insurance company and the damage to repair, so if
it never gets taken to any authorities, she's the one who's put out, not
you. The fact that she doesn't want to file an insurance claim doesn't
make you responsible for paying for her repairs.

It might be worth making an offer for half of the cost, if you're
worried that she would take you to court and if you don't think you'd
win. But if she tries to extract the full amount from you, you should
take *her* to court; she doesn't want the authorities involved, so
she'll probably not press the point.

--
tholub - Kinetic Sculptor
------------------------------------------------------------------------
tholub's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/804
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/40443

As you know from reading your accurate tabloids, all disputes of this
manner are handled with short-range firearms in the streets in the US. I
would suggest that you push for looser firearms laws in the highly
restrictive UK.

--
harper - TANKED at GASWORKS

-Greg Harper

B L U E S H I F T

"My world view has come crashing down like a drunk clown on a giraffe,
riding through a cactus patch..." -evil-nick on "Entry of the
Gladiators"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
harper's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/426
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/40443

I offered to pay half when she started talking money. but she insisted
that I had to pay the full amount. It just seems ridiculous that if I
hadn't been wearing a helmet she'd be on a charge of death by dangerous
driving but because I was she's trying to get me to pay for damage to
her car.

--
MrBoogiejuice - Loyal subject of the crown

Make crumbs not War!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
MrBoogiejuice's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/5515
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/40443

harper said:

*As you know from reading your accurate tabloids, all disputes of this
manner are handled with short-range firearms in the streets in the US.
I would suggest that you push for looser firearms laws in the highly
restrictive UK. *

Perhaps there is something to be learned from our cousins across the
pond after all...

--
MrBoogiejuice - Loyal subject of the crown

Make crumbs not War!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
MrBoogiejuice's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/5515
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/40443

Based on the relatively sketchy details of the accident scene that we
have, it sounds like you both believe you were relatively equally at
fault for allowing yourselves to come into contact with each other.

If this is the case, my suggestion is to give her half of what she
asked, and call yourselves both lucky. Lucky you, as you are not
injured. Lucky her, as you are not injured.

-------------------

Additional info:
Don't let yourself be discriminated against for being a unicyclist. If
you're not a bike, you're a pedestrian. But the thing is, somehow you
allowed yourself to ride in front of a car so I believe you do own some
of the fault in this incident.

If there is indeed no police report, this can work in your favor. It is
her word against yours, and nothing more, that you are the cause to the
damage of her car. But morally, I wouldn't want to go that way.

If she demands more than half from you, I'd tell her it's time to file
an insurance claim. I don't think either of you wants to bring lawyers
into this, as then you both lose (they win).

--
johnfoss - The wilder Wilder

John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com

"Read the rules!" -- 'IUF Rulebook'
(http://www.unicycling.org/iuf/rulebook/) -- 'USA Rulebook'
(http://www.unicycling.org/usa/competition/)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
johnfoss's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/832
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/40443

It depends on your local law, but i'm pretty sure that a unicycle will
be considered a bicycle.

Unless you were doing something obviously illegal, then she is liable
for both her expenses and your expenses. It would be smart of you to
take pictures of your helmet, your unicycle, your own physical damages,
and her car.

As you've explained, the car hit you; you didn't hit the car! So,
unless you are super-sneaker, were wearing some great urban camouflage,
or were doing something irrefutably illegal, then she owes you money.
Of course, this is assuming that things over there are like they are
over here.

I'm pretty sure that because she hit a "bicyclist", that it is her
burden to prove that you were absolutely in the wrong. If she can't,
then it is her fault, even if you are equally responsible (i think). If
you know that you weren't in the wrong, then you should tell her to
screw off.

--
hecklar - Street Rider (Level 4)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
hecklar's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/6917
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/40443

This is from New York State laws, but I'm sure it's the same in most
places. 1st of all, Pedestrians have the right of way.

"Is a motorist required to treat bicyclists any differently than a
motorist?

The motorist must always remember that cyclists have the same rights and
responsibilities as drivers of motor vehicles, and motorists are
required to exercise "due care" to avoid colliding with bicyclists (Sec.
1146). As a safety measure, motorists should make scanning for
bicyclists second nature, give cyclists plenty of clearance when passing
them, and give them the right-of-way when appropriate."

You should be considered in between a pedestrian and a bicyclist.

--
shibumi - On A Uni

Jeff
------------------------------------------------------------------------
shibumi's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/8816
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/40443

Personally I would tell her that you want it sorted out properly and
officially, i.e. through her insurance. For that sort of money and given
the circumstances the insurance company will probably not take it any
further with you as it sounds as though, legally, she is probably to
blame and she'll either have to claim or pay for it herself.

Also be weary that a this is the kind of thing that people say when they
have no car insurance! Have you got her insurance details?

--
unicus

Every time I try to write my signature the pen slips on the monitor.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
unicus's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/869
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/40443

shibumi said:

*1st of all, Pedestrians have the right of way.*

This is generally true in most places, but it only works as a starting
point. Pedestrian right-of-way does not make you liable if someone jumps
in front of your car from behind a wall, for example.

There was a tragic accident recently here in Sacramento where three kids
ran across the street directly in the path of a car, which hit and
killed one of them. No charges were filed against the driver because he
did nothing wrong. I have had a similar experience with a squirrel. I
had no time to react; I barely saw it run under my car!

So if this happened at a blind corner of some sort, the liability would
seem to be shared. I'd still go for the 50% settlement and consider
yourself lucky. Or consider it a lesson that cost some money, but was
not as expensive as being hit a little harder. It should help you to be
more careful in similar traffic situations in the future!

--
johnfoss - The wilder Wilder

John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com

"Read the rules!" -- 'IUF Rulebook'
(http://www.unicycling.org/iuf/rulebook/) -- 'USA Rulebook'
(http://www.unicycling.org/usa/competition/)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
johnfoss's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/832
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/40443

johnfoss said:

*This is generally true in most places, but it only works as a
starting point. Pedestrian right-of-way does not make you liable if
someone jumps in front of your car from behind a wall, for example.

There was a tragic accident recently here in Sacramento where three
kids ran across the street directly in the path of a car, which hit
and killed one of them. No charges were filed against the driver
because he did nothing wrong. I have had a similar experience with a
squirrel. I had no time to react; I barely saw it run under my car!

So if this happened at a blind corner of some sort, the liability
would seem to be shared. I'd still go for the 50% settlement and
consider yourself lucky. Or consider it a lesson that cost some money,
but was not as expensive as being hit a little harder. It should help
you to be more careful in similar traffic situations in the future! *

In the US, drivers are almost never held liable for killing cyclists or
pedestrians; "I never saw him" is wielded as a defense, instead of
seized as an admission of guilt as it should be. The only exception is
in the case of DUI. The UK, where cars are not king, is likely to be
more realistic in these matters.

--
tholub - Kinetic Sculptor
------------------------------------------------------------------------
tholub's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/804
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/40443

If you weren't violating any laws, I wouldn't pay a dime. If she didn't
demand that a police officer show up and write an accident report, then
she probably thought she was lucky that you didn't because she was in
the wrong. Not sure what the law is were you are, but no accident
report, no liability.

--
bugman - Survivor 2004 Wolfman Duathalon

-* [ F O N T = c e n t u r y g o t h i c ] ' H e l p C u r e D i a
b e t e s b y S u p p o r t i n g M y R i d e ' ( h t t p : /
/ t i n y u r l . c o m / 6 8 m k v ) [ / F O N T ] * -

*Fund Raising Honor Roll*
Kathy Susanka
------------------------------------------------------------------------
bugman's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/3812
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/40443

I've just spoken to a solicitor friend of mine and to the 2 witnesses
who's numbers I have.

The first witness (an ex-copper) was quite blunt and said that he saw me
just go straight out and get hit. It sounded as if he'd spoken to the
lady already and the old unicycle bias was evident.

The other witness said he saw me approaching the turning, look each way
and then speed up to make the turn. And then saw the front of my wheel
get hit and flip me onto the car.

my solicitor friend advised me not to volunteer to pay anything. And
that if she ended up pursuing it just to tell her I'm only working
part-time and can't pay what she wants me to. Or to tell her that I'm
considering legal action against her for my injuries. and damage to the
coker (I thought it was OK, but on closer inspection the rim seems
knackered).

Sooo, going to have a chat with my mam, see what she has to say (for she
is wise) and then get back in touch with her. If it comes to it I'm
prepared to pay for half the damage (Though I've no idea how I'll pay
it), though obviously I'd rather not have to.

--
MrBoogiejuice - Loyal subject of the crown

Make crumbs not War!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
MrBoogiejuice's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/5515
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/40443

Wouldn't you immediately retort that you wanted her to pay for damage to
your Coker and put her back on the defensive?

I agree, sounds like she's bullying. I'd make sure there was a police
report on file. Without it, it seems you would have no foundation.

If all else fails, buy her a case of root beer.

--
yoopers - Bruce & Mary Edwards

Munipsycho on the art of raising children: "My job is not to keep them
from falling. It's to teach them to always get back up."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
yoopers's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/31
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/40443

MrBoogiejuice said:

I've just spoken with the woman who knocked me off my coker on
Sunday(see thread:3 cheers for Kris Holm and Bell helmets). She wants me
to pay for the damage to her car.

Are you a CTC member? If you are then you will of course have access to
the CTC legal team. If not, then if you join now you /may/ still be
able get help with this:
<URL:http://www.ctc.org.uk/>

Were you injured in the incident? If so, have you had the extent of
your injuries checked and documented by a doctor (do so ASAP)? And has
the driver informed the police of the incident, as is required by law if
an injury occurred?

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
<URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/>
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

yoopers said:

*Wouldn't you immediately retort that you wanted her to pay for damage
to your Coker and put her back on the defensive?

I agree, sounds like she's bullying. I'd make sure there was a police
report on file. Without it, it seems you would have no foundation.

If all else fails, buy her a case of root beer. *

I didn't think the coker was damaged until after I'd spoken to her. It
was Pete, who the uni belongs to, who noticed the damage.

Just spoken to the police...Basically I'm scuppered.

As I was turnng onto the road she was on, she had right of way. Despite
the fact it was a blind corner. Her (correct in retrospect) argument
would be that I should have dismounted to turn the corner.

All I can really hope to do is explain my skintness and see if she'll
accept me just paying her excess...Or for half the damage and see what
she says.

--
MrBoogiejuice - Loyal subject of the crown

Make crumbs not War!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
MrBoogiejuice's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/5515
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/40443

As I see it, as long as you were allowed on the road, and on it before
she was, you had the right of way.

e39m5

--
e39m5
------------------------------------------------------------------------
e39m5's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/9836
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/40443

MrBoogiejuice said:

*All I can really hope to do is explain my skintness...*

Pardon the quick foray into Threadjackland but I find learning new
cultural words very interesting.

From 'Hyperdictionary' (http://www.hyperdictionary.com)

Skint. Definition: [adj] lacking funds; "`skint' is a British slang
term" Synonyms: broke, bust, poor, stone-broke, stony-broke

I've never heard that word before.

--
yoopers - Bruce & Mary Edwards

Munipsycho on the art of raising children: "My job is not to keep them
from falling. It's to teach them to always get back up."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
yoopers's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/31
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/40443

I wasn't on the road before her. I was turning onto the road that she
was already on. Hence in the unforgiving eyes of law I was at fault.

I'm going to have to see how far humility will get me. She knows a
couple of people I know, her husband teaches at the school I went to so
hopefully reports of my good nature (or something like that) will soften
her resolve to extract money from me.

I'm a bit worried that this'll reflect badly on the club I'm trying to
get started at the school her hubby teaches at.

Lessons learned:

1. Always wear a helmet and other appropriate safety gear.

2. If you're going to get hit by a car make sure you have right of
way.

3. If you're turning onto a road and there's a blind corner, dismount
and walk across the road.

4. If you insist on getting hit by a car make sure you can afford it.

5. don't get hit by cars

--
MrBoogiejuice - Loyal subject of the crown

Make crumbs not War!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
MrBoogiejuice's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/5515
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/40443

MrBoogiejuice said:

my solicitor friend advised me not to volunteer to pay anything. And
that if she ended up pursuing it just to tell her I'm only working
part-time and can't pay what she wants me to. Or to tell her that I'm
considering legal action against her for my injuries. and damage to the
coker (I thought it was OK, but on closer inspection the rim seems
knackered).

This is good advice.

If it really wasn't your fault, and you can defend that statement,
don't pay a penny, and go on the offensive. However, I'd be nervous
of this myself if there was collision resulting from you pulling out
of an entrance and a vehicle on the road hitting you - which seems to
be the situation. I think you'd only be judged to be clear of blame
if it can be demonstrated (witnesses, skid marks, whatever) that teh
car was going dangerously fast round a truly blind bend.

If you go on the offensive, consider the following [all specific to
tyhe UK, but I think that's right, isn't it?]:

1: Since injury was caused, she is legally obliged to have given you
sight of her insurance certificate, OR to have produced it at a police
station within 7 days.

2: She is legally obliged to have reported it to teh police as soon as
possible. There is case law to say that ASAP means exactly that -
going home, having a cup of tea and _then_ reporting it to the police
is not acceptable.

3: If you were not at fault, you are entitled to compensation for all
injuries, and recompense for all damage. Even if you were partly at
fault, you are entitled to part compensation. Suppose teh courts
decide you're each 50% to blame - half her windscreen is probably a
lot less cash than half your mental anguish and injuries.

I don't think the police are allowed to not treat it as an incident if
you were injured, so certainly find out why they aren't taking it
seriously.

Finally, you'll get more detailed and knowledgeable help if you ask on
uk.rec.cycling - there's lots more experience there, and several
unicyclists, so you won't be automatically assumed to be in the wrong.
You WILL get assertively questioned about whether you werer actually
to blame, however - but if your defense of your fault can't satnd teh
newsgroup, it won't last a minute of teh insurance company, let alone
teh courts. Oh, and don't say your helmet saved your life - just
trust me on that one. You can say you were wearing one and you think
it did some good, but DON'T say you'd be dead without it, and DON'T
try and persuade anyone to wear one.

regards, Ian SMith