"Lictor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:"Robert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:You will be surprised on some of those changes that they will make. It
will
Quoted message said:include more private enterprise for one particular reason only.
Accountability.
The goal of many of the current changes to health care systems is to make
them go bankrupt. Exactly like what the right wing is doing in the USA
with
Quoted message said:what is left of your public system. What do you think? That the right wing
in the various countries of the world is actively trying to protect a
system
Quoted message said:that benefits 99% of the population instead of one that benefits the 1% of
the richest?
Quoted message said:Exactly as they are accountable for their own business. They must make
changes or lose customers. It is competitive. There is no compitition in
public healthcare in Canada so no one is accountable as is typical of
most
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:government.
There is also no competition in the American system, as exhibited by the
prices you pay your drugs.
Canada is selling Americans a lot of drugs thank you and the Canadian drug
manufacturers are making some good money on them. They are profiting off of
American health problems. I am not alarmed as Canadians are crossing the
border for treatment.
It's a wash either way.
Your country has *laws* that protect a
Quoted message said:monopolistic situation, where you cannot use the free trade system and
purchage their drugs abroad.
LOL as Canada has many laws outlawing competing health care companies. It
also has drug companies by law selling with a cap on meds.
Likewise, your public hospitals make no use of
Quoted message said:competitive mecanisms to get the best deal possible on their drugs and
medical equipment.
There are competitive bids on anything they buy and most hospitals are
non-profit private hospitals. Public hospitals are so called "county
hospitals".
Likewise, there is supposed to be competition between the
Quoted message said:insurance providers, but they don't try to compete. Much like the music
industry, competition has not pushed the cost of CDs down. What is
competition worth if you don't use it?
On the other hand, a well designed public system has a huge leverage to
negotiate prices. When you're "purchasing" drugs for 60 million people,
you
Quoted message said:can drag the prices amazingly low. Now, imagine the same situation in the
USA while negotiating drugs for 250 million people...
Obviously, your competitive model doesn't work. Just check the prices of
the
Quoted message said:private insurances - have they gone down thanks to competition? What about
the prices of your drugs? With your level of competition, they are the
cheapest of the world, right?
As you stated competition is hampered by governmental laws.
Can't argue with that.
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:The government and the private sector do not do business the
same way. The government guys buys a toilet seat for $1200 and gets
promoted
Quoted message said:where in the private sector he gets fired.
Errr... $1200 toilet seats are only found in the USA. Just like $1000
hammers and $50 nails. In the rest of the world, public entities use the
full range of the free market to get the best prices they can. My
girlfriend
Quoted message said:works as a private contractor in urbanism for municipalities, and I can
tell
Quoted message said:you they negotiate their prices to the best of their ability. They will
pit
Quoted message said:the various providers to get the best cost/quality ratio through a bidding
system. All the bidding is public, as a citizen, you can check the whole
process if you want. If your municipality bought $1000 hammers, you can
check from who they were bought, and what were they criteria to buy these
instead of the $5 ones. If you find that the process was not done in the
best interrest of the citizens, it's illegal and harshly punished. We have
several judges that just *love* to send politicians to jail and/or make
then
Quoted message said:ineligible... You should try sending your politicians to jail from time to
time, it's highly educationnal to them.
If your country is run by morons, it's no surprise your public systems are
under-performing.
Ok lets look at the canadian model again and see what happens when people
and hospitals feel entitled to everything for free.
Hosp Q. 2003 Spring;6(3):47-4. Related Articles, Links
How should Canada fund the blood system? An evaluation of the chargeback
proposal.
Wilson K, MacDougall L, Pinard B, Amin MA, Fergusson D, Graham I, Blajchman
M, Freedman J, Angus D, Hebert PC.
Department of Medicine, University of Toronto, USA.
The Canadian blood system is a critical interface between public health and
the delivery of patient care. The organization of the blood system plays a
vital role in ensuring that its functions are effectively fulfilled.
Previous structural problems in the blood system led to serious health
consequences by contributing to the blood transmission of hepatitis C and
HIV in the 1980s. To address these problems, the Canadian blood system has
recently undergone considerable organizational reform. However,
policy-makers, particularly in Ontario, are considering further structural
reform specifically focusing on how the blood system is financed. This move
for reform is partially motivated by the rising cost of blood products and
the perception that the current system has failed to provide incentives for
the efficient use of these products. The suggested payment mechanism, a
"chargeback system," involves the provincial ministries of health funding
hospitals so that hospitals can directly purchase blood products from the
Canadian Blood Services. This approach would replace the current system in
which the provinces directly fund the Canadian Blood Services, which in turn
provides blood products free of charge to hospitals. Based on a review of
documents and stakeholder interviews, we report the potential advantages and
disadvantages of a change to a new system of funding and make
recommendations on how provinces should proceed.
PMID: 12846144 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:They do it because of necessity or fail and the government has not
incentive
Quoted message said:to do anything. How many more citations do you need to prove my point in
that accountability does not exist and they are NOW studying on how
start
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:being accountable.
The government has a very high incentive to do anything. If it doesn't
succeed, it is fired. If it tries to attack part of the social security
system people do not agree on, you have people marching in streets and
complaining. My current government lost the last two major local elections
because of that, and this means a lot of right wing politicians are now
unemployed.
And so know you have a lot of liberals spending like drunking sailors and
going into deficit.
Quoted message said:We do have accountability. The accounts are public, anyone can check them
and see where the money goes and comes from. I don't know how you think a
public administration is managed, but they work exactly much like private
companies, they have to have a balanced budget, they have to keep track of
where money is spent... Many CEO have moved between the private and public
Am J Public Health. 2003 Apr;93(4):658-63. Related Articles, Links
Do Canadian civil servants care about the health of populations?
Lavis JN, Ross SE, Stoddart GL, Hohenadel JM, McLeod CB, Evans RG.
Centre for Health Economics and Policy Analysis and the Department of
Clinical Epidemiology and Biostatistics, McMaster University, Hamilton,
Ontario, Canada. [email hidden]
OBJECTIVES: This article describes Canadian civil servants' awareness of,
attitudes toward, and self-reported use of ideas about the determinants of
health. METHODS: Federal and provincial civil servants in departments of
finance, labor, social services, and health were surveyed. RESULTS: With
civil servants in finance departments a notable exception, most Canadian
civil servants see the health of populations as a relevant outcome for their
sectors. Many (65%) report that ideas about the determinants of health have
already influenced policymaking in their sector, but most (83%) say they
need more information about the health consequences of the policy
alternatives their departments face. CONCLUSIONS: Civil servants should
consider developing accountability structures for health and researchers
should consider producing and transferring more policy-relevant research.
PMID: 12660214 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Quoted message said:sector back and forth, it's not like they operate on wholly different
rules
Quoted message said:(except for the non-profit rule). As always, nothing is perfect, and moves
are done to improve things. But we have a level of accountability that is
as
Quoted message said:good as yours. At least, we don't have to track the money leaked to the
Barbados or Panama.
Quoted message said:Exactly, the American public system is also not accountable as are most
government programs.
But you're too lazy to change that. You only deserve what you worked for.
Quoted message said:They are accountable to the politicians.
The politicians are accountable to *you*, if you bother to do your duty as
a
Quoted message said:citizen instead of blindly believing everything you're told.
Politicians are responsible for Canadian health and in the states only
government programs are under the politicians. I don't want my health care
regulated by the President on how many gallbladder surgeries will be
performed this year, thank you for asking though.
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:So your answer
to place all healthcare under the American public system is silly. Does
France spend 1 billion a week in Iraq? You can not compare.
Well, spending 1 billion a week in Iraq was the choice of your country.
And where will the money come from? Medicare? SS?
Quoted message said:Correction, the choice of Bush Jr. For once, our President did listen to
what the population wished, and we decided not to join in the Iraqi
fiasco.
Quoted message said:Besides, the Iraqi invasion will benefit billions to Bush's friends, it's
not like the balance of the operation is negative.
Anyway, I don't see why you bring Iraq here. What's the point?
You really don't get the point do you. Who or where is the money coming
from?
That your
Quoted message said:government wastes billions to solve the Bush's familly problems? So what?
What is it supposed to mean?
The whole social security system in France is mostly *not* on the
government
Quoted message said:budget. If our government was spending 100 billion a week in Iraq, the
social security system budget would not move a cent. It's getting 95% of
its
Quoted message said:budget on its own taxes, which are kept completely separate from the
revenue
Quoted message said:taxes. That would be a problem in the USA, since collecting taxes seem to
cost an insane amount of money, thanks to your thrifty administrations.
Anyway, social security is much like a CIA that would work on its own
taxes
Quoted message said:instead of the budget, it's pretty independant from the government. The
government has no control on how the social security system manages its
budget, it can only attempt to negotiate with it.
You know nothing about the American government budget and how it works and
you want to put health care under that budget.
