Achillies Tendonitis question

In article said:

I am training for a 1/2 marathon in January. I have been doing 20miles per week for a little over
a year. No major problems in that year. I ran 6.5 miles Sunday and about mile 2 my left achilles
started to ache. I have done 6 miles several time before with no problems. I stretched good when I
finished, but after I sat down for a while, my left achilles really tightened up. I iced it for 3
days and took NSAIDs. It was feeling better, but it still felt a little tight. I ran a very easy 4
miles this morning, and it started killing me immediatly after. I stretched some, but was scared
to stretch anything on my left side for fear of aggrevating it even more. I am icing it now, but
should I stop running until it is better? I only have 10 weeks to work up my long runs. I can "run
through it", but I hate limping all day. The pain sucks too. Any suggestions/experience is greatly
appreciated.

First, the good news: it's OK to keep training on achilles tendonitis. It may be worth taking a
brief layoff in your case (2 weeks should be OK given your time constraints), since it's hurting
even on short runs -- but even then, you should be able to crosstrain. Do any crosstraining that
doesn't hurt it.

The two things that caused me the most trouble were long runs and speed work. Running long AND fast
was what made it hurt most.

Now some suggestions. Some of these you're already probably doing, but here it
is:

(1) be prepared to revise your goals -- you can't train as hard.
(2) less speed work (consider eliminating), less long runs, more rest days (start with a short
layoff followed by rest), less milage.
(3) Ice after every run, especially if you do long runs or speed work.

Any idea what caused this anyway ? You need to find out so that you can adjust your training when
you're back to it.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

ElvisIsDead said:

I am training for a 1/2 marathon in January. I have been doing 20miles per week for a little over a
year. No major problems in that year. I ran 6.5 miles Sunday and about mile 2 my left achilles
started to ache. I have done 6 miles several time before with no problems. I stretched good when I
finished, but after I sat down for a while, my left achilles really tightened up. I iced it for 3
days and took NSAIDs. It was feeling better, but it still felt a little tight. I ran a very easy 4
miles this morning, and it started killing me immediatly after. I stretched some, but was scared to
stretch anything on my left side for fear of aggrevating it even more. I am icing it now, but
should I stop running until it is better? I only have 10 weeks to work up my long runs. I can "run
through it", but I hate limping all day. The pain sucks too. Any suggestions/experience is greatly
appreciated.

Hmm, I can give you an idea of what caused my bouts of AT troubles and wwhat I did about them but,
in the end,

EVERYBODY'S DIFFERENT! :-)

The two major things that get my ATs are tight calves and shoes that have started to go south on me.
If it's the calves that are causing my AT probs then my shins usually feel a little tight, too. That
lets me know that I know to spend a little more time rolling my calves. If you can find someone who
thinks you're cute and likes scented oils, they could rub your calves for you (cross training). The
shoes situation isn't nearly as much fun to resolve - try new shoes.

A few other things that seem to have caused AT pains (for me): too much running on the beach (or any
other surface that causes my traction to slip); long meetings where I ended up slumping with my
ankles in an unusual position (pictures upon request); resting my ankles (ATs) on railings and the
like while I'm doing my part ot support the hops growers; and, lessee, viruses (viri?),
overexertion, dehydration, and shoes that are too high in the heel.

I'm not too sure about running through an AT problem since I know several people who have been
trying to "run through" an AT problem for the last several years. My suggestion would be to recover
and find out what may have caused the problem (it may not be possible but it's worth a try). The
thought of stretching a painful AT is enough to make me break into a sweat. It may work for some but
I've found that a little walking around stretched my AT just fine. 10 weeks seems (to me) to be
enough time to figure out if you have an AT problem that needs a prenup or a temporary problem. I'd
suggest at least backing off your running intensity for a week or so.

Good luck, Layne

-------------------------------------------------------
The rec.running report archives may be found at kinder.cis.unf.edurec.runningOpen ↗

Elvisisdead said:

I am training for a 1/2 marathon in January. I have been doing 20miles per week for a little over a
year. No major problems in that year. I ran 6.5 miles Sunday and about mile 2 my left achilles
started to ache. I have done 6 miles several time before with no problems. I stretched good when I
finished, but after I sat down for a while, my left achilles really tightened up. I iced it for 3
days and took NSAIDs. It was feeling better, but it still felt a little tight. I ran a very easy 4
miles this morning, and it started killing me immediatly after. I stretched some, but was scared to
stretch anything on my left side for fear of aggrevating it even more. I am icing it now, but
should I stop running until it is better? I only have 10 weeks to work up my long runs. I can "run
through it", but I hate limping all day. The pain sucks too. Any suggestions/experience is greatly
appreciated.

Think long term. The point that needs to be emphasized here is that an AT injury, without
recovery/treatment can become chronic. It can become a permanent injury that you NEVER get rid of.

You can "run through" an AT injury (on reduced volume), but you cannot "train through" (just keep
doing what you're doing): It will only get worse, more painful, and do more damage if you change
nothing. It would be possible to run a HM if you could preserve the long run and cut everything else
way back for a month or two, but given your description of your last 6 miler, I wonder if you'll be
able to go twice that distance and still be able to train.

You need to cut your volume in half, get rid of ALL hills and speedwork, and take a look at your
shoe choice. AT can be caused by overpronation OR underpronation, or by shoes with too much
cushioning in the heel. You need to make sure you have the right shoes for your running style, and
only run in "cushioned" type shoes if you underpronate.

You can maintain almost all of your aerobic fitness with a break of 10-14 days. I would take a break
of this long, then have 1 week of reduced training that includes a 6 miler. If you still have a
problem training due to AT, you need to scratch your HM and run at a reduced level until the injury
heals. If you're lucky, you might be able to scale your long run as 6-8-10-8-12 and still do your
race, but while keeping your total volume limited. It is very unlikely that you will be able to do
much volume or any speedwork by your race.

See Dr. Pribut's page for more info:

drpribut.comspachil.htmlOpen ↗

Lyndon "Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!" --US Olympic Track Coach Brooks Johnson

Check out the exercises listed at:

www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/0031a-achilles-tendonitis.htm

Those exercises are the only thing that I have found helpful.

Ed Friedman

In article said:

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:13:29 -0600, ElvisIsDead wrote:

Quoted message said:

I'm not too sure about running through an AT problem since I know several people who have been
trying to "run through" an AT problem for the last several years.

"Running through" suggests continuing training as before and ignore the problem -- and approach
certain to end in disaster. One can continue to train, but it nearly always involves some
adjustments.

Unfortunately, achilles tendonitis is very easy to "run through" -- the pain is simply not
proportionate to the damage. In the book "Running injury free", there is a discussion of a guy who
was dragged into the podatrists office icking and screaming by his friends with a complete rupture,
and wondering what the fuss was all about. Unlike some injuries (like chrondo) where you have to be
really stupid to tolerate the sort of pain required to run through it, achilles tendonitis is a
relatively painless way to trash your body.

Quoted message said:

My suggestion would be to recover and find out what may have caused the problem (it may not be
possible but it's worth a try).

The best thing from a recovery standpoint for him now would be to just take a 1 month layoff now.
But that's not going to help him much in the half marathon, he may even need to abandon the race if
he does that. It depends on how important the race is to him, and what his goals are -- if he just
wants to do the race that's OK, but if he's already run such races and is going for a PR, forget it.

If he does the race, taking a 1 month layoff afterwards would do a lot of good. Beyond that much
time, I think it helps to learn to coexist with the injury. It takes a very long time for the pain
to completely go away. As long as it doesn't hurt at all when running, there's no problem.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Layne Wallace said:

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:13:29 -0600, ElvisIsDead wrote:

I can "run through it", but I hate limping

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

all day.

FWIW, limping can also lead to other problems and imbalances.

The pain sucks too. Any suggestions/experience is greatly

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

appreciated.

Summary of what follows: try to find out what caused it and fix it. I know it's not always easy.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hmm, I can give you an idea of what caused my bouts of AT troubles and wwhat I did about them but,
in the end,

EVERYBODY'S DIFFERENT! :-)

A 1000 amen's to that.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

long meetings where I ended up slumping with my ankles in an unusual position (pictures upon
request);

Something a podiatrist recommended to me a number of years ago was to sit with the feet dorsiflexed,
as in toes propped on telephone book. His claim, and I agree with him, is that we can never stretch
enough to undo the normal positioning of feet. My feet, when left to their own, normally plantarflex
a few degrees (enough so that the podiatrist swore I was pushing against him when he cast my feet
for orthotics back then). So strengthening shin and loosening ham, calves, etc (esp. dorsiflexion)
have been a major focus of my stretch/strengthen routine.

BTW, a really effective stretch I found that helps me a lot is to sit on stability ball, tuck feet
under the ball but keep them flat on floor, then try to roll the ball forward over your heels while
keeping feet flat and trying to dorsiflex.

The bar stools we have in the lab sure don't help when sitting for hours with microscope work so I
get up and stretch periodically.

Quoted message said:

I'm not too sure about running through an AT problem since I know several people who have been
trying to "run through" an AT problem for the last several years.

I was going to suggest he do a google search and read how many posters here have dealt with AT and
the duration of their recovery when they "ran through it". Other places I've seen things as long as
6 yrs or more. Some people are lucky and catch it early and know what to do about
it.

I might add that my first bout with AT (and PF at the time) was before I did this structured running
- and before I knew about AT. Just a *slight* annoyance in my heel during field work. Since field
work has to get done, I'd learned to work through *minor* (used facetiously here) discomfort for 20
years - ya gotta get back to camp or the car at end of day. When it finally hurt so much I couldn't
tie my hiking boots, it caught my attention big time. It was until the end of the following field
season before I ran again - and a lot of that time, I didn't *want* to run because of the pain. I
give AT/PF their full respect now and have a 0 tolerance level for *any* type of pain - that is, if
something doesn't feel right anywhere, I'm trying to figure out what's causing it and correct the
situation. I've read too many stories / studies where one minor thing just cascades into a whole
myriad of other things if not dealt with. Prevention is so much easier.

My suggestion would be to recover and find out what may have

Quoted message said:

caused the problem (it may not be possible but it's worth a try).

I'll second this. Without finding out what caused it, it's likely to repeat.

Some rehab I use AFTER my PT was able to identify some issues in my biomechanics that made me AT
prone. pponline.co.uk0125.htmOpen ↗

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

In article said:

I am training for a 1/2 marathon in January. I have been doing 20miles per week for a little over
a year. No major problems in that year. I ran 6.5 miles Sunday and about mile 2 my left achilles
started to ache. I have done 6 miles several time before with no problems. I stretched good when I
finished, but after I sat down for a while, my left achilles really tightened up. I iced it for 3
days and took NSAIDs. It was feeling better, but it still felt a little tight. I ran a very easy 4
miles this morning, and it started killing me immediatly after. I stretched some, but was scared
to stretch anything on my left side for fear of aggrevating it even more. I am icing it now, but
should I stop running until it is better? I only have 10 weeks to work up my long runs. I can "run
through it", but I hate limping all day. The pain sucks too. Any suggestions/experience is greatly
appreciated.

Regards,

Elvisisdead

check out: mindfulness.comof1.aspOpen ↗

Roll the calves, cross friction to free the calf so that pressure is taken off the Achilles. Then
also massage out the anterior compartment of the shin so that the calf doesn't have to work against
a semi contracted shin muscle.

In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer - rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon
Clinic, est. 1975

Mindful Running: mindfulness.commr.aspOpen ↗ faqs.orgrunning faqOpen ↗

Dot said:

I can "run through it", but I hate limping

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

all day.

FWIW, limping can also lead to other problems and imbalances.

Good catch, Dot. I'd missed the ITBS potential.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

long meetings where I ended up slumping with my ankles in an unusual position (pictures upon
request);

Something a podiatrist recommended to me a number of years ago was to sit with the feet
dorsiflexed, as in toes propped on telephone book. His claim, and I agree with him, is that we can
never stretch enough to undo the normal positioning of feet. My feet, when left to their own,
normally plantarflex a few degrees (enough so that the podiatrist swore I was pushing against him
when he cast my feet for orthotics back then). So strengthening shin and loosening ham, calves, etc
(esp. dorsiflexion) have been a major focus of my stretch/strengthen routine.

Interesting thought. Desk jockeys that I've known (including me) do seem to sit in positions that
would not stretch calves or ATs. I'll try this. Thanks!

Quoted message said:

The bar stools we have in the lab sure don't help when sitting for hours with microscope work so I
get up and stretch periodically.

Brrrrr. Lab stools should be banned as cruel and unusual.

Quoted message said:

I might add that my first bout with AT (and PF at the time) was before I did this structured
running - and before I knew about AT. Just a *slight* annoyance in my heel during field work. Since
field work has to get done, I'd learned to work through *minor* (used facetiously here) discomfort
for 20 years - ya gotta get back to camp or the car at end of day. When it finally hurt so much I
couldn't tie my hiking boots, it caught my attention big time. It was until the end of the
following field season before I ran again - and a lot of that time, I didn't *want* to run because
of the pain. I give AT/PF their full respect now and have a 0 tolerance level for *any* type of
pain - that is, if something doesn't feel right anywhere, I'm trying to figure out what's causing
it and correct the situation. I've read too many stories / studies where one minor thing just
cascades into a whole myriad of other things if not dealt with. Prevention is so much easier.

I tend to agree. If I have some AT tingles after a run, I can count on the AT hurting on walks over
3 or 4 miles.

Layne

-------------------------------------------------------
The rec.running report archives may be found at kinder.cis.unf.edurec.runningOpen ↗

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:18:45 +0000 (UTC), Donovan Rebbechi wrote:

Hi, Donovan,

Quoted message said:

In article said:

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:13:29 -0600, ElvisIsDead wrote:

Quoted message said:

I'm not too sure about running through an AT problem since I know several people who have been
trying to "run through" an AT problem for the last several years.

"Running through" suggests continuing training as before and ignore the problem -- and approach
certain to end in disaster. One can continue to train, but it nearly always involves some
adjustments.

Saaaayyyyyy. Are you trying to pick a fight??? Well, let's settle it like men. No, not like that.
I'm older and have an advantage in a pissing contest. However, I have a half dozen or so bottles of
The MacAllen here. First one to pass out or puke loses.

Seriously, aren't we saying the same thing? The OP needs to find out what caused the AT pain and
deal with it ASAP.

Layne

-------------------------------------------------------
The rec.running report archives may be found at kinder.cis.unf.edurec.runningOpen ↗

In article said:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:18:45 +0000 (UTC), Donovan Rebbechi wrote:

Hi, Donovan,

Quoted message said:

In article said:

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:13:29 -0600, ElvisIsDead wrote:

Quoted message said:

I'm not too sure about running through an AT problem since I know several people who have been
trying to "run through" an AT problem for the last several years.

"Running through" suggests continuing training as before and ignore the problem -- and approach
certain to end in disaster. One can continue to train, but it nearly always involves some
adjustments.

Saaaayyyyyy. Are you trying to pick a fight??? Well, let's settle it like men. No, not like that.
I'm older and have an advantage in a pissing contest. However, I have a half dozen or so bottles
of The MacAllen here. First one to pass out or puke loses.

Seriously, aren't we saying the same thing? The OP needs to find out what caused the AT pain and
deal with it ASAP.

Right, I'm not disagreeing with you at all.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Right, I'm not disagreeing with you at all.

:-) Damn, we're going to have to work harder.

Layne

-------------------------------------------------------
The rec.running report archives may be found at kinder.cis.unf.edurec.runningOpen ↗

Layne Wallace said:

Dot said:

I can "run through it", but I hate limping

Quoted message said:

>all day.

FWIW, limping can also lead to other problems and imbalances.

Good catch, Dot. I'd missed the ITBS potential.

Actually, I was thinking well beyond that. If anything is weak, there's usually at *least* 2 other
neighboring muscles that have to compensate, and their neighbors, .... Also, if limping on one foot,
then there's more strain on the other side as well as awkward landing on injured side. I'm glad my
PT caught a bunch of things last year that I've been working on strengthening, hopefully before they
become major issues.

Dot yea, been reading too much biomechanics and injury stuff this past year

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope