Adult tricycle

Kazzy said:

Hi friends,
I live in Tameside near manchester, and I'm looking for a reasonably priced
adult tricycle (medical problems stop me from riding bicycles) either new or
second hand - can any kind soul suggest anything please?

http://www.cobr.co.uk/acatalog/Trikes.html

George Longstaff was the acknowledged expert on "barrows". He died last
year but Longstaffs the company are still going. A new custom one would
probably fall outside your definition of "reasonably priced", but these
s/h ones look fine.

Kazzy said:

Hi friends,
I live in Tameside near manchester, and I'm looking for a reasonably priced
adult tricycle (medical problems stop me from riding bicycles) either new or
second hand - can any kind soul suggest anything please?

http://www.anthrotech.de/Info_e/index_e.html

Cheap (relatively) and cheerful.

Cheaper and possibally better is the trice T at 1500 quid, but i suspect
that's a bit pricy!

See http://www.ice.hpv.co.uk/trikes_t.htm

Or try the for sale ads in http://www.velovision.co.uk/

Or try contacting http://www.tricycle-association.org.uk/

Good luck

Quoted message said:

http://www.anthrotech.de/Info_e/index_e.html

Cheap (relatively) and cheerful.

Kazzy said:

Hi friends,
I live in Tameside near manchester, and I'm looking for a reasonably priced
adult tricycle (medical problems stop me from riding bicycles)

This might be some use to you:
http://www.londonrecumbents.co.uk/index.php?id=106

You might be VAT exempt - you can only ask, and that might
make the difference in getting a decent model.

John Hearns said:

You might be VAT exempt - you can only ask, and that might
make the difference in getting a decent model.

I would say, but am absolutely not an expert here,
that if you get a trike either made for you, or in some
way adapted to accomodate your condition then you could
get it VAT free.

I am willing to be proved wrong - I'm sure there is someone
on this group with experience.

John Hearns said:

Kazzy said:

Hi friends,
I live in Tameside near manchester, and I'm looking for a reasonably priced
adult tricycle (medical problems stop me from riding bicycles)

This might be some use to you:
http://www.londonrecumbents.co.uk/index.php?id=106

You might be VAT exempt - you can only ask, and that might
make the difference in getting a decent model.

I have looked into this for customers and VAT exemption is apparently
only given if the trike (or whatever) is built specially for a disabled
person or adapted specially for a disabled person's use.

Seems a tad unfair, but then we *are* talking about the taxman....

--
Carol
"Mmmmooooowooooff!" - the Moobark, "The Treacle People"

Carol Hague said:

I have looked into this for customers and VAT exemption is apparently
only given if the trike (or whatever) is built specially for a disabled
person or adapted specially for a disabled person's use.

Seems a tad unfair, but then we *are* talking about the taxman....

I don't think its that unfair.
What would happen is that disabled people would buy trikes, and cars, etc.
and just sell them on.

As I said in my next post, and as you say, Kazzy could either get a trike
specially made, or have some small adaptation made to a new off-the-shelf
model.
The VAT saving may make the difference between one which doesn't do well,
and a top-notch model. But I'm no trike expert!

John Hearns said:

Carol Hague said:

I have looked into this for customers and VAT exemption is apparently
only given if the trike (or whatever) is built specially for a disabled
person or adapted specially for a disabled person's use.

Seems a tad unfair, but then we *are* talking about the taxman....

I don't think its that unfair.
What would happen is that disabled people would buy trikes, and cars, etc.
and just sell them on.

That's a very cynical view. It hadn't even occurred to me that that
would happen. I am obviously far too nice.

--
Carol
"Mmmmooooowooooff!" - the Moobark, "The Treacle People"

Carol Hague said:

I have looked into this for customers and VAT exemption is apparently
only given if the trike (or whatever) is built specially for a disabled
person or adapted specially for a disabled person's use.

Hase make disability specific modifications for the Kettwiesel trike, so
I wonder if something can be wangled there. I guess you'd have to be
registered disabled for starters.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Carol Hague said:

That's a very cynical view. It hadn't even occurred to me that that
would happen. I am obviously far too nice.

No, I'm not being cynical.
I'm just trying to get across my understanding of why the VAT people
apply such rules.
I think it is sensible.
Human nature being what it is, people would sell them on if the tax
people didn't keep a tight rein.

Same thing with Blue Badge permits - I've seen them on many flash
cars, Mercedes and Rolls, parked in Soho/Fitzrovia in London.
I doubt the driver is disabled. Either the driver is using a relative's
badge, or has bought a stolen one.

On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:07:23 +0100, John Hearns <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have looked into this for customers and VAT exemption is apparently
only given if the trike (or whatever) is built specially for a disabled
person or adapted specially for a disabled person's use.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Seems a tad unfair, but then we *are* talking about the taxman....

Quoted message said:

I don't think its that unfair.
What would happen is that disabled people would buy trikes, and cars, etc.
and just sell them on.

Yup. Also if someone who requires no adaptations cannot afford a new
car, they can buy second-hand. Those who require adaptations are
often very restricted as to which makes and models can be adapted, and
are extremely unlikely to find a ready-adapted second-hand example.

I can't say I've ever heard a disabled person complain about this
rule, but I don't know that many disabled people these days.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

John Hearns said:

Same thing with Blue Badge permits - I've seen them on many flash
cars, Mercedes and Rolls, parked in Soho/Fitzrovia in London.
I doubt the driver is disabled. Either the driver is using a relative's
badge, or has bought a stolen one.

How does the type of car identify whether or not the driver is disabled?
Are all disabled people poor Reliant Robin drivers? Are people only
disabled if they need specially adapted cars and cannot move without a
stick or wheelchair?

I think your prejudices are showing

Tony

Tony Raven said:

John Hearns said:

Same thing with Blue Badge permits - I've seen them on many flash
cars, Mercedes and Rolls, parked in Soho/Fitzrovia in London.
I doubt the driver is disabled. Either the driver is using a relative's
badge, or has bought a stolen one.

How does the type of car identify whether or not the driver is disabled?
Are all disabled people poor Reliant Robin drivers? Are people only
disabled if they need specially adapted cars and cannot move without a
stick or wheelchair?

I agree with your point. There are hidden disabilities, such as heart
problems which mean you might not be able to walk far.

But please take my point - I used to work in Soho,
and I regularly saw the same Rolls-Royce sitting in
the street, complete with badge. I never saw a disabled person anywhere
near it. I think a relative's badge was being used.
I'm talking about cynical people dodging the regulations in central
London, which is very, very short of disabled parking spaces.
Blue Badges are regularly stolen and sold on.

On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 12:55:07 +0100, John Hearns <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

please take my point - I used to work in Soho,
and I regularly saw the same Rolls-Royce sitting in
the street, complete with badge. I never saw a disabled person anywhere
near it. I think a relative's badge was being used.
I'm talking about cynical people dodging the regulations in central
London, which is very, very short of disabled parking spaces.
Blue Badges are regularly stolen and sold on.

And then you get the Paul Smiths of this world, who think that the
disabled should not have these special privileges in the first place.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

John Hearns said:

But please take my point - I used to work in Soho,
and I regularly saw the same Rolls-Royce sitting in
the street, complete with badge. I never saw a disabled person anywhere
near it. I think a relative's badge was being used.

Do you know that or are you just assuming that because its a Rolls the
driver must be abusing the system rather than a genuine disabled person
parking near his office

Tony

Tony Raven said:

Do you know that or are you just assuming that because its a Rolls the
driver must be abusing the system rather than a genuine disabled person
parking near his office

I despair.
This particular car sat in the street near my place of work
on most days. I never saw a disabled person getting in or out.

As I have said, it is common to see high-value cars sporing
blue badges in the inner city area of London.
As far as I'm concerned, people are using their relatives badges
or are buying them from thieves. Which I find cynical in the extreme.

John Hearns said:

I despair.
This particular car sat in the street near my place of work
on most days. I never saw a disabled person getting in or out.

As I have said, it is common to see high-value cars sporing
blue badges in the inner city area of London.
As far as I'm concerned, people are using their relatives badges
or are buying them from thieves. Which I find cynical in the extreme.

I too despair.

You've not seen a disabled person getting in and out the Rolls. If you
saw how can you tell just by looking at them that they are disabled.
They don't all limp or walk with a stick you know.

Your sole reason for thinking they are abusing the system is the value
of their cars. Why can't a disabled person drive a high value sports
car or Rolls Royce? I've seen nothing that says you have any evidence
these cars are not being used by genuinely disabled people. Your only
evidence is they are "high value" and parked in London.

Tony

Tony Raven said:

Your sole reason for thinking they are abusing the system is the value
of their cars. Why can't a disabled person drive a high value sports
car or Rolls Royce? I've seen nothing that says you have any evidence
these cars are not being used by genuinely disabled people. Your only
evidence is they are "high value" and parked in London.

Obviously a single car proves nothing one way or the other, but
overall you would expect the proportion of disabled people who own
high value cars to be about the same as the proportion of the rest
of the population who own high value cars. Actually you might
expect it to be somewhat less as disabled people are often economically
disadvantaged[1]

Now if (and this is a big if) one observes that a high proportion
of cars owned by disabled people are luxury cars, then that might
indicate abuse of the badge system is going on, eg people selling
on[2] their badges one way or another.

However, after the endless H* debates I am sure all our regular
readers are aware of the problems with statistics in self-selecting
populations. Two relevant factors here:-

* Unless you do a thorough survey of all cars, you don't know for
sure what proportion of cars with disabled badges are luxury cars.
It is human nature to notice flash cars more than boring ones, so
you're more likely to notice a Mercedes with badge than a Fiat Panda.

* You would need to do your survey over a wide area - I would imagine
that people who drive to work in Soho daily are more affluent than average,
whether disabled or not.

Pete.

[1] eg http://www.jrf.org.uk/knowledge/findings/socialpolicy/060.asp
"Despite these improvements, and real absolute income gains across
all severity categories, disabled people remain poor relative to
the general population (see Figure 2)"

[2] Insert trice thread tie-in here

Pete Bentley said:

[2] Insert trice thread tie-in here

Gah, I should really read the Subject line form time to time...