Cycling Training · Public discussion

Advice for new cyclist - duathlete

Started by EvilGoodGuy · · Last activity · 12 posts · 1,207 views

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Cycling Training
Published
29 January 2005
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1 February 2005
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EvilGoodGuy
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  1. Hello,

    I am looking for some cycling advice, I have a backgrond in running and consider myself well grounded in that aspect. I am training for a duathlon in August that is 5km Run, 40km Cycle, 10km Run. I spent 8 months working on my running and have it nearly where I want it (5km - 19mins on hills). I want to spend more time focusing on cycling. Currently I can average around 35km/hr in training for 40km. I want to train for this distance specifically. The race course is hilly. Throughout the last 2 months I've been doing one tempo ride (1hour), one technique session (single leg drills..etc.), one transition ride of about an hour, and one long ride about 3 hours. Oh and of course I am still doing 4 runs per week.

    Essentially I am looking for training specifics with regard to racing 40km... I don't really know how I should train to race 40km. What kind of specific workouts do I need...etc?

  2. If you can average 35km/h in training, whilst doing 19 minutes for a 5km run, I would think that you are already stronger at cycling than running.

  3. Really? I thought 35km/hr. was rather slow (by in training I meant I haven't raced 40km, i've only done a practice time trial), although perhaps I am not far off from where I should be. What is a "good time" for 40km? I guess I could always look up duathlon results but I'm interested in a pure cycling perspective.

  4. EvilGoodGuy said:

    Really? I thought 35km/hr. was rather slow (by in training I meant I haven't raced 40km, i've only done a practice time trial), although perhaps I am not far off from where I should be. What is a "good time" for 40km? I guess I could always look up duathlon results but I'm interested in a pure cycling perspective.

    That's 21 mph for a 40km solo ride...not bad (actually quite good) if you don't even consider yourself a biker.

  5. Huh.... Perhaps I should apply more emphasis to cycling. With the intention that it would be my strength in the duathlon. I started at 26mins for 5km, which is horrible and over 8 months brought it down to 19mins. I haven't spent much time at all with cycling specific training (2months). I guess I'll go back to my original question, I want to make the most out of the time between now and August with regard to cycling... how do I do that? log miles? What is specific to the 40km distance?

    Or am I to understand that my cycling is fine and I am weaker in running and should continue to focus on that... either way I need to train cycling in addition to running...

  6. EvilGoodGuy said:

    Huh.... Perhaps I should apply more emphasis to cycling. With the intention that it would be my strength in the duathlon. I started at 26mins for 5km, which is horrible and over 8 months brought it down to 19mins. I haven't spent much time at all with cycling specific training (2months). I guess I'll go back to my original question, I want to make the most out of the time between now and August with regard to cycling... how do I do that? log miles? What is specific to the 40km distance?

    Or am I to understand that my cycling is fine and I am weaker in running and should continue to focus on that... either way I need to train cycling in addition to running...

    If my experience with triathlon is anything to go by, the run is the first principal component of multisport success. I reckon there are a couple of reasons. First, running training helps you build a bigger motor (so does cycling, of course, but running is weight bearing). Second, you can lose a lot more time with a poor run than a poor cycle, especially if the cycle leg is very flat because the high marginal cost of increasing speed.

    Having said that, you should still train for cycling 'cos the muscles you use are different and you want to have fresh legs for the final run leg - cycling training will help you get there. Perhaps some brick sessions (cycle+run) would help.

    Ritch

  7. Thanks for the info, I appreciate the reponses...

    Ritcho,

    I wasn't aware that running would build a bigger motor than cycling. Interesting...I've heard some people claim that cycling improves running but running doesn't improve cycling, is this true? Can I expect one to help the other... If I remember correctly, iron athletes rely on a cross over effect.

    I've found bricks and reverse bricks to be effective thus far. When I first started them, I found the typical "jelly legs" but now I can come off the bike or run without any lag.

    In terms of the 40km cycling distance, what system should I train the most? I assume this would be mostly aerobic effort. So long slow miles? How far beyond the 40km distance should I go in training? Or is more simply better? In my plan (as of now) I am planning to go upto 6 hour long rides, but is that necessary?

  8. EvilGoodGuy said:

    Thanks for the info, I appreciate the reponses...

    Ritcho,

    I wasn't aware that running would build a bigger motor than cycling. Interesting...I've heard some people claim that cycling improves running but running doesn't improve cycling, is this true? Can I expect one to help the other... If I remember correctly, iron athletes rely on a cross over effect.

    I've found bricks and reverse bricks to be effective thus far. When I first started them, I found the typical "jelly legs" but now I can come off the bike or run without any lag.

    In terms of the 40km cycling distance, what system should I train the most? I assume this would be mostly aerobic effort. So long slow miles? How far beyond the 40km distance should I go in training? Or is more simply better? In my plan (as of now) I am planning to go upto 6 hour long rides, but is that necessary?

    My guess is that running improves cycling and vice-versa up to a point for most people as the improvement to the cardio system outweighs the effects of non-specific training. It seems reasonable that specialist training should improve you more in the discipline in which you specialise. A top athlete in one discipline would therefore gain little or even lose from training in the other, but multisport is different - it is the best package of compromises that wins.

    In triathlon, the best runners usually beat the best cyclists. You can see for yourself if you get hold of some results for a triathlon that rank competitors in each discipline as well as overall. Most of the time, the rank correlation between the run rank and overall rank is the highest, the cycle leg and overall next and then a relatively low correlation between swim rank and overall. You also find a pretty high correlation between run and cycle ranks (as you would expect).

    As for your training load, you probably have limited time for training, so you have to trade off the benefits of training for each. More training for one is less training for the other, so if you have a higher marginal benefit from cycle training, then you should probably increase the time/intensity of your cycling. A 40km TT is a lactate threshold distance (aerobic), but you want to run before and after as well, giving a total race time of around 2hrs, so an all-out 40km TT is a little different to what you want to do.

    I'm not a fan of long slow miles 'cos I don't have the time. I prefer to train similarly to how I want to race - TT intensity workouts and shorter overload intensity workouts.

    Ritch

  9. Thanks!
    That is exactly the information I wanted.

    I am going to pick your brain for alittle more info. When I set my bike up, what should be taken into account? Should I spend all my time in the aero position during training? I've heard that either moving backward or forward (i can't remember which) in the saddle engages different muscle groups. From my understanding I use my hamstrings for running, therefore I should attempt to use them the least while cycling, correct? If so, what position should I use to do this? Any other set up tips would be welcome...

  10. EvilGoodGuy said:

    Thanks!
    That is exactly the information I wanted.

    I am going to pick your brain for alittle more info. When I set my bike up, what should be taken into account? Should I spend all my time in the aero position during training? I've heard that either moving backward or forward (i can't remember which) in the saddle engages different muscle groups. From my understanding I use my hamstrings for running, therefore I should attempt to use them the least while cycling, correct? If so, what position should I use to do this? Any other set up tips would be welcome...

    I can't really tell you much about bike positioning that you couldn't find elsewhere. You can try searching for bike fit articles at www.cyclingnews.com. It's worth noting though, that a TT position is a little further forward than a normal road cycling position. I have a road bike with clip-on aero bars. The saddle is shifted forward and seatpost upwards slightly when the bike is configured for TT/tri, but is less comfortable for riding with the handlebars... however, everyone is different so I advise you to look around and if you can't sort it out yourself, then go to bike shop or a coach that can see you on the bike.

    Cheers,
    Ritch

  11. EvilGoodGuy said:

    In terms of the 40km cycling distance, what system should I train the most? I assume this would be mostly aerobic effort. So long slow miles? How far beyond the 40km distance should I go in training? Or is more simply better? In my plan (as of now) I am planning to go upto 6 hour long rides, but is that necessary?

    1. 40k TT during a duathlon is *nearly* 100% aerobic...it's nearly 100% aerobic even w/o having to run before and after for that matter.
    2. Long slow miles would be secondary to training just below, at, and slightly over your TT-60min/maximal steady state intensity.
    3. "more is better" rarely applies, and there is no reason at all to do 6hr rides as preperation for your event.

  12. Ritcho,
    I'll look into the fit a bit more, and search it out as you mentioned.
    Thanks for all the replies, I'm out of questions for now. Or atleast I will stop before I become annoying...😉

    Smart/RST,
    I was hoping I'd get a response from one of the coach types 🙂. You seem to be rather knowledgable about the technical aspects of training. The info you supplied will help me to flesh out my training plan alittle more intelligently.

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