Advice wanted on stronger wheelset

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by mikeg

Alex (X-1200)?

should be Alex (X-2100)?

Also what hubs would be a good choice?

brand? model?

mikeg

Hi Mikeg,
It sounds more like the wheel build is the problem, rather than quality of the rim....

No doubt it was a factory assembled wheel - in other words a wheel just strong enough to last the trip home from the bike shop.

You say that your riding consists mostly of roads and paths? If you're not bombing it over rock gardens etc then any 'decent' rim should suffice - as long as it gets built properly. The hubs you already have should be plenty good enough if they're only 2000k's old. Stick with those.

Two rims I have had generally good success with are Mavic and Sun... different models for different riding and budgets.

$220 might be pushing it though for 2 hand-built wheels but if you use your current hubs it should be enough?
Cheers,
Troy

mikeg <[email hidden]> wrote:
: Looking for some advice

: On the weekend I had a spoke break on the drive side on the rear wheel on my mountain bike. The
: bike is a year old, and this is the second spoke to break on the rear wheel. both have been on the
: drive side. The first time was in August four months ago.

: I am looking at buying a stronger wheelset, and I would like to know what is recommended in the
: budget range (about AU$220 for a front and rear wheelset)

Did you have the wheels retensioned at anytime? With your weight this is the critical factor.
Wheels, properly tensioned are inherently strong. When they are undertensioned, the bend (as the
spoke exits the hub) goes through a flexing cycle which inevitably suffers metal fatigue. Look at
the broken spoke. I'll bet that's where it failed.

You could buy another set of wheels, but a cheaper and more effective option is to go to a reputable
bike shop and have you rear wheel respoked and properly tensioned. This should be a minimal cost -
perhaps $50 with a new set of spokes, nipples and labour. Also make a date in your diary some 500ks
down the road to have the wheels retensioned. The wheels will settle in and not need major
retensioning beyond a certain point.

If you want wheels designed for absolute strength, buy yourself a set of tandem wheels - 40 spokes!
They are expensive and heavy.

As far as three cross goes, take a look at your wheels and count how many times a spoke is crossed
by others in its length. It is common these days to have 'no cross' (radial laced), 1, 2, 3. 4-cross
is getting out there in terms of utility. The number of crosses doesn't give a wheel dramatically
more strength in the plane that you need.

I hope this helps, cheerz, Lynzz

"mikeg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Looking for some advice

On the weekend I had a spoke break on the drive side on the rear wheel on my mountain bike. The
bike is a year old, and this is the second spoke to break on the rear wheel. both have been on the
drive side. The first time was in August four months ago.

I am looking at buying a stronger wheelset, and I would like to know what is recommended in the
budget range (about AU$220 for a front and rear wheelset)

What brands and models would be good: Alex (X-1200)? Mavic ? Velocity?

Double walled? triple walled?

Should I stay with 36 hole?

What lacing pattern is recomended, and what does it mean? eg 3 cross?

Some additional info:

I weigh about 100Kg, and have rack and panniers on the rear, sometimes needing to carry spares and
tools for mine and the kids bikes etc. on recreational rides on paths and roads.

The current wheels are Weinmmann 520 alloy rims on Alloy Parallax cassette hub, and the bike is an
entry level Apollo LSX 1.0 hardtail MTB.

To date I have done about 2000 kms since February.

If you have 36 hole hubs, these won't be causing any problems with your wheels, so I would suggest a
new strong rim and thick gauge spokes.

I am also 100kgs (and treat the wheels rough) - stock wheels never last and I end upgrading the rim
and spokes for the back wheel at least.

For your budget, you could get your rear wheel rebuilt with a good strong rim and thicker spokes - I
was recommended by my LBS a mavic rim for about $180. I'm not sure of the model.

In the end I ended up purchasing a new wheelset from ebay - Deore hubs, velocity VXC disc specific
rims and thick spokes hand built by an expert.

Cost about $280 all up. I am going to do the change over work myself - I am awaiting a mail
order toolkit.

Tim

mikeg <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Looking for some advice

On the weekend I had a spoke break on the drive side on the rear wheel on my mountain bike. The
bike is a year old, and this is the second spoke to break on the rear wheel. both have been on the
drive side. The first time was in August four months ago.

I am looking at buying a stronger wheelset, and I would like to know what is recommended in the
budget range (about AU$220 for a front and rear wheelset)

[snip]

Before spending your hard-earned on new wheels, you may find that your spokes have not been "stress
relieved". If you're going to trash the wheel anyway, it might pay to give it a go.

See draco.acs.uci.edu8c.1.htmlOpen ↗ for an explanation

Ritch

Jose Rizal _@_._ said:

mikeg:

Quoted message said:

I am looking at buying a stronger wheelset, and I would like to know what is recommended in the
budget range (about AU$220 for a front and rear wheelset)

Unless the rim you have now has developed flat spots, stick to it and just have the wheel re-spoked
and re-built. Use double-butted spokes (these are thick on the ends and thinner in the middle), and
go to a wheel builder of good reputation, who must have a spoke tensiometer.

I agree with all of the above apart from the tensiometer. Is it absolutely necessary?

Take my (road bike) example. I'm around 100 Kg. My rear wheel is Mavic Open Pro rim, Chorus hub, DT
Swiss Competition double-butted spokes
(2.0mm/1.8mm), 32 spokes. It originally had the same spokes, but black. I had it rebuilt by a _good_
wheel guy with the plain spokes because of problems with the black spokes. That was 7,500 km ago.
I took it back for a touch-up after 200 km. Since then it hasn't been touched and is still
perfect. Oh yeah. It cost $50.

Quoted message said:

Broken spokes that fatigue do so because they have been inadequately tensioned.

Yup. Loose spokes break. Which is sort of counter-intuitive.

Regards, Richard.

Richard Sherratt:

Quoted message said:

Jose Rizal _@_._ said:

Unless the rim you have now has developed flat spots, stick to it and just have the wheel re-
spoked and re-built. Use double-butted spokes (these are thick on the ends and thinner in the
middle), and go to a wheel builder of good reputation, who must have a spoke tensiometer.

I agree with all of the above apart from the tensiometer. Is it absolutely necessary?

Not unless the wheel builder can gauge tension accurately by tone. I think it's prudent to tension
the spokes close to the maximum that the rim can withstand, as well as having even tension amongst
the spokes on each side of the wheel. A tensiometer allows you to do these things much easier than
plucking the spokes for tone.

Quoted message said:

Take my (road bike) example. I'm around 100 Kg. My rear wheel is Mavic Open Pro rim, Chorus hub,
DT Swiss Competition double-butted spokes
(2.0mm/1.8mm), 32 spokes. It originally had the same spokes, but black. I had it rebuilt by a
_good_ wheel guy with the plain spokes because of problems with the black spokes. That was
7,500 km ago. I took it back for a touch-up after 200 km. Since then it hasn't been touched and
is still perfect. Oh yeah. It cost $50.

You don't say how the wheelbuilder determined the tension in the spokes; he may well have used a
tensiometer.

Jose Rizal _@_._ said:

Richard Sherratt:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I agree with all of the above apart from the tensiometer. Is it absolutely necessary?

Not unless the wheel builder can gauge tension accurately by tone. I think it's prudent to tension
the spokes close to the maximum that the rim can withstand, as well as having even tension amongst
the spokes on each side of the wheel. A tensiometer allows you to do these things much easier than
plucking the spokes for tone.

I'm sold :-)

<snip>

Quoted message said:

You don't say how the wheelbuilder determined the tension in the spokes; he may well have used a
tensiometer.

I'm pretty sure he didn't use a tensiometer, but I could be wrong. He's built a lot of wheels over
the last 20 years. His experience includes some years as a mechanic on professional racing teams in
Europe and the USA. They have quite high standards :-)

One other thing. The original build is a prime example of the result of not asking enough
questions. The bike was new two years ago. The frame is yellow, black and pearl grey. I figured
that black rims and

manager (not the wheel builder - Matt - he wasn't at the shop at the time) said that he didn't think
that Mavic Open Pro came in black but he'd check ... "Oh! They do. And they're a bit cheaper." I
said "Sounds good". What I should have said is "Why are they cheaper?" The reason is that they are
not Open Pro CD. Amongst other things, according to Matt, the "CD" means that the wheel is easier to
true and holds its 'true' much better. I should also have asked if the black spokes performed as
well as the plain spokes. They don't for heavy riders. They seem to lose their tension a bit and
when they do they are noisy.

The moral of the story is that if you are over, say, 80 Kg, you need to emphasise function over
form. OK, the shop manager didn't know that the black option could be a problem for a heavy rider.
He's an elite athlete and he's used to fit people. So I'm not annoyed with the shop. And it only
cost me $50 (plus embarrassment in the bunch because I was riding a noisy bike).

Regards, Richard.