Dot said:caseydoug said:Sorry for the long post, but people have said they need detail to give
a useful response.
No need to apologize! You hit the detail that people would need to give
you a decent response! And this frequently reflects the level of
experience and/or knowledge of the poster, i.e. you know how to ask the
question. I plugged your hr values into a zone calculator and your
descriptions of the efforts were right on for the type training you were
doing. Basic endurance plus some shorter, higher efforts.
It sounds like you've done a lot of good training and have a decent
strength and aerobic base. (A lot better condition than I am.) Others
have also made comments. You also have 7 wks left to train AND recover
to be in peak condition for the climb. (note: some of my comments are
things you may already know, but wanted to make a complete response for
others following the thread or responding to other responders.)
One thing you might consider is longer climbs, that might better
simulate the endurance aspect, i.e. time on legs. I know you indicated
that it's hard to train more, but maybe instead of 2x a week for your
climbs, make it one long one (or reps), or maybe back to back - or drop
a weight workout or one longer climb every 2 wks - whatever works for
you. You mentioned 9000 ft in 24 hrs so wasn't sure if this was a 1-day
summit push or an overnighter.
Also, be very aware of your recovery times in your workouts so you don't
get injured. Since you've been doing this a few months and have a hiking
background, you've probably got a handle on this, but use caution when
extending either the duration or the intensity (intervals). This might
be new territory for you - or maybe not because of your past experience.
I was looking for information on the routes to get an idea of slope and
maybe if it was a one-day push or whatever and found this:
http://www.rmiguides.com/rainier/conditioning.html
(looks like this might be what you had been following?)
"Be able to carry a 40-pound pack for five hours on 20-degree snow slopes.
Be able to ascend steadily for 5,000 feet (slopes up to 40 degrees) in
seven hours"
I'm sure you're aware that 20 degree slopes are almost twice as steep as
20% slopes (what you've been using), so it's good you've been doing some
additional strength. This is where a Stepmill (wasn't sure if you were
using Stepmill or one of the other stepping devices) works much better
than a tm, which usually only go to 15% in US. On snow slopes, you may
be following in someone's kicked steps, so the steppers may be more
appropriate than tm on a couple counts (flat footing as well as greater
strength requirement). Or might you be snowshoeing on smooth surface -
which is another ball game?
If you're presently at 2000ft/hr with pack, which I think is really
good, your 4000 ft climbs are probably about 2 hr up (and maybe 1-1.5 hr
down?). So this suggests that longer climbs might be helpful. In order
to accommodate this, you might need to reduce something else.
The longer climbs will also get you drinking and eating as needed. You
may not be getting that much of "finding what works for you" on the
shorter efforts. Hydration at altitude and cooler temperatures is really
important as is energy (carbs) - and there's a real tendency to overlook
drinking in cooler temperatures. And don't forget electrolytes.
Regarding your question on intervals, RMI suggests
"(3) If you are using a step mill, step moderately (at the high end of
your aerobic training range) for ten minutes. Every five minutes
thereafter, increase your pace for 1 to 1½ minutes, then return to
moderate intensity."
They suggest upper end of aerobic zone (LT), which makes sense to me.
You wanted to try:
"I was thinking about trying to work some kind of interval training into
one or two of my exercise sessions each week. The idea would be to push
my heart rate up over 170 for a couple of minutes, then let it drop back
below 140 for a couple of minutes, and repeat this pattern. I've heard
that this is a good and quick way to increase aerobic capacity. I've
also read, however, that it may not be that helpful if your goal is
endurance"
You're suggesting going beyond LT zone for a couple minutes. This also
has advantages. When moving with a pack at 14,000 feet on snow,
everything is hard.
However, whether it makes more sense to train for over-LT efforts or
whether to be stronger and more efficient and having larger aerobic
base, hence spending less time near LT, I would bet *my* training time
on going for the strength endurance. But I'm slow, so I'm not one to
listen to. However, their recommendation is to keep it aerobic - hard
breathing is ok, but keep it below gasping level.
From their page:
"We have had success with interval training when we have a minimum of
three months of training time. "
Not sure if they mean 3 months total or 3 months remaining.
Regardless, you probably don't want to increase the endurance aspect AND
the intensity at the same time. If you have to make your long climbs
every 2 wks to make room for them, then maybe you could do an interval
workout in the other week, BUT be sure to allow recovery time - both
within a week, between weeks, and before the big event.
One thing you didn't mention with your weights is whether you were doing
traditional weights (2 legs with barbell or whatever) or something more
hiking specific, like 1 leg squats, etc. Their balance and agility
suggestions are also good, esp. for traversing snow. (I live and run
year round in Alaska, so I spend a lot of time on snow.)
Regarding altitude acclimation, I've been in lowlands the last couple
decades (have spent time in CO mtns either hiking or field research
above treeline), but from what I've read among experienced runners, you
may not be able to train for it, it varies among people, and it varies
among different times. You might check with your guide and see what
their suggestions are.
Oh, be sure to carry your camera where you can get to it readily!!
And have fun! Sounds like a great adventure to enjoy.
Dot
--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
These are enormously helpful comments. I am very appreciative (and
impressed). Let me respond to a couple of the suggestions or questions.
First, yes I am going with RMI. I read their materials a while back,
but I must confess that I either overlooked or forgot some of the
points raised by Dot, including their suggestions on interval training.
And no, I had not caught that they were describing the slope in degrees
rather than percent. It is my understanding that the total climb
involves 9,000 feet in about eight miles (hence an average of around
20%, but apparently with some slopes that are much steeper). RMI
requires a one-day training course, held at Paradise (5400'😉. I will be
doing that the day before we start the climb. Then the first day of the
climb, we leave Paradise early and hike to Camp Muir (10,000'😉, about
halfway in both distance and elevation gain. I'm told this takes about
five hours. The second day begins at 1:00 or 2:00 a.m., reaching the
summit (14,410'😉 in the morning, and then decending all the way back to
Paradise by that afternoon.
All of you seem to agree that I need to increase the duration of my
training hikes. The challenge will be to find hikes that are not too
far away, so that I don't spend all day getting there. A staple of my
training has been Mount Si, which is about 3500 feet over four miles,
and is very close to home. I could do that hike twice in one day,
perhaps lightening my pack for the second trip. I also want to do one
or two training hikes from Paradise to Camp Muir. That will not only
increase my volume, but will give me more experience at altitude. I may
not be able to condition myself for the altitude, but it would be
helpful to know beforehand how I am going to respond. If nothing else,
it will give me a basis for taking Diamox prophylactically.
Thank you for the suggestion about tapering, Roeret. I did not know
about that. I did learn the hard way about overdoing it. My first time
out this season, I carried 40 pounds up Mount Si. It was fine going up,
but my knees killed me on the way down, and for several days
thereafter. I lowered the weight for my next hike, and then increased
it gradually on subsequent hikes, but I still get some pain on the
descent. Knee braces, walking sticks, and ice have been my friends.
I found the suggestions from those of you who have done hard climbs to
be very helpful. Fortunately, I will be doing this with a friend, so I
will have someone to pace and encourage me. Unfortunately, he is much
bigger, stronger, and half my age, which means he is a faster hiker
even though he trains less (carrying 20% of your body weight is easier
than carrying 30%). :>😉 It's hard not to worry about whether I can
maintain an adequate pace if I have to strain while others make it look
easy.
Dot, you asked about the stair machine. I actually own a Stairmaster
Freeclimber 4400 PT. It was a great investment, mostly because I can
and do use it a lot, without having to go to the gym. This is the one
where the footpads go up and down (not the escalator type). On the
climb, we will be using crampons, not snowshoes, so I think the machine
is a reasonably good training device for this. The RMI materials
suggest a training range of 65% - 85% of HRMax, which for me would be
124 - 162. For interval training, they suggest spending 10 minutes at
the high end of that range, and then pushing above the range for
repeated short periods. So I think my earlier proposal of getting up to
170 is in line with RMI's suggestion. I'll try it and see how it makes
me feel. I do know that I experience significant "heart rate drift"
after about an hour, which means I should be doing intervals only on
shorter workouts.
You also asked about my resistance training. It's pretty traditional
with respect to chest, back, shoulders, triceps, and biceps. With legs,
however, I am doing lots of lunges, bench stepping, calves, etc.,
usually holding dumbells. Also lots of core strengthening.
I feel quite encouraged by what you have said. Also, resolved to do
longer hikes. Thanks again, all, for the time and effort that went into
those comments.
