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Aerobic Exercise - Went Backwards - Why?

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
8 October 2003
Last activity
12 October 2003
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Nelson Win
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  1. At 48 I returned to slow jogging after a break of many years. I wanted to improve my health
    (depressed) and energy levels (low). I took it easily and slowly, following all the medical advice
    as regards frequency and intensity. Yet my heart was weakened by it. After 8 weeks my heart beat
    faster for the same distance and pace as it did at the start of the program (I use a heart rate
    monitor watch). I felt it too - my heart began to race, an uncomfortable feeling (which has improved
    since I stopped jogging). I'm working on two theories as to why this happened.
    1. Antioxidant levels were low, jogging led to free radical damage.
    2. Glutamine levels were depleted, couldn't make enough HGH for tissue repair.

    Any other ideas? Finding the right explanation will direct my nutritional program. I can then test
    my theories in the field - the jogging field, that is.

    Nelson Win

  2. "Nelson Win" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    At 48 I returned to slow jogging after a break of many years. I wanted to improve my health
    (depressed) and energy levels (low). I took it easily and slowly, following all the medical advice
    as regards frequency and intensity. Yet my heart was weakened by it. After 8 weeks my heart beat
    faster for the same distance and pace as it did at the start of the program (I use a heart rate
    monitor watch). I felt it too - my heart began to race, an uncomfortable feeling (which has
    improved since I stopped jogging). I'm working on two theories as to why this happened.
    1. Antioxidant levels were low, jogging led to free radical damage.
    2. Glutamine levels were depleted, couldn't make enough HGH for tissue repair.

    Any other ideas? Finding the right explanation will direct my nutritional program. I can then test
    my theories in the field - the jogging field, that is.

    Nelson Win

    Where you getting your rest? I've noted by personal observation that my resting pulse rate rises
    progressively if I continuously "run on" 2 to 6 hour nights.

    What supplements are you taking? What does your diet look like? Where you running ever day or every
    other day?

    Given your age, your body is making less testosterone, dhea, free testosterone, and growth hormone.

    At your age, I'd suggest a lower impact exercise like swimming or the use of a Stairmaster.

    What meds are you taking? Niacin?

    Expecting a short night.......... ..................William A. Noyes

  3. Nelson Win <[email hidden]> wrote in message =
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    At 48 I returned to slow jogging after a break of many years. I wanted to improve my health
    (depressed) and energy levels (low). I took it easily and slowly, following all the medical advice
    as regards frequency and intensity. Yet my heart was weakened by it. After 8 weeks my heart beat
    faster for the same distance and pace as it did at the start of the program (I use a heart rate
    monitor watch). I felt it too - my heart began to race, an uncomfortable feeling (which has
    improved since I stopped jogging). I'm working on two theories as to why this happened.
    1. Antioxidant levels were low, jogging led to free radical damage.
    2. Glutamine levels were depleted, couldn't make enough HGH for tissue repair.
    =20
    Any other ideas? Finding the right explanation will direct my nutritional program. I can then test
    my theories in the field - the jogging field, that is.
    =20
    Nelson Win

  4. Quoted message said:

    Were you getting your rest? I've noted by personal observation that my resting pulse rate rises
    progressively if I continuously "run on" 2 to 6 hour nights.

    Good point! My sleep was broken (would wake after afew hours) and not long enough (5 or 6 hours).
    Jogging deepened my sleep a few times, though. But it didn't last.

    Quoted message said:

    What supplements are you taking?

    None, but intend taking a range of antioxidants (vitamins, OPCs, lipoic acid etc), essential
    saccharides and glutamine - from my research these are my best bet at the moment. I'm open to
    suggestions here.

    Quoted message said:

    What does your diet look like?

    Little red meat and chicken, mostly fish, some tofu, eggs, little dairy, complex carbs, greens and
    fruit. Under 2000 calories daily.

    Quoted message said:

    Were you running ever day or every other day?

    At the most every other day. I kept it to 3 times per week.

    Quoted message said:

    Given your age, your body is making less testosterone, dhea, free testosterone, and growth
    hormone.

    Good point. My blood test for all these is at the lower end of the reference range. In fact, all my
    hormone levels are low.

    Quoted message said:

    At your age, I'd suggest a lower impact exercise like swimming or the use of a Stairmaster.

    I'll stick to slow jogging as long as I can, I enjoy it. I also see it as a litmus test for my
    health and an unmasker of underlying problems.

    Quoted message said:

    What meds are you taking? Niacin?


    None at present.

    Nelson

  5. You said you followed "all the medical advice........" Does that mean that before you began your
    running routine, you were given a stress EKG or underwent other coronary screening to check for CAD?
    Ischemic disorders can sometimes appear as unusual fatique, lack of energy, and heart irregularities
    following exercise-induced heart stress. There are also studies showing depression may be a risk
    factor for CAD. IMO,if you frequently experienced heart beat irregularities as a result of light
    running you should attempt to rule out CAD. I wouldn't be worried about what supplements to
    take......I'd be making an appointment with the best cardiologist I could afford, pronto! Good luck
    with everything....I hope you get relief from whatever is causing the problem.

    Ron

    "Al Hephy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<1065615437.476729@savina>...

    Quoted message said:

    Nelson Win <nelson [email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    At 48 I returned to slow jogging after a break of many years. I wanted to improve my health
    (depressed) and energy levels (low). I took it easily and slowly, following all the medical
    advice as regards frequency and intensity. Yet my heart was weakened by it. After 8 weeks my
    heart beat faster for the same distance and pace as it did at the start of the program (I use a
    heart rate monitor watch). I felt it too - my heart began to race, an uncomfortable feeling
    (which has improved since I stopped jogging). I'm working on two theories as to why this
    happened.
    1. Antioxidant levels were low, jogging led to free radical damage.
    2. Glutamine levels were depleted, couldn't make enough HGH for tissue repair.

    Any other ideas? Finding the right explanation will direct my nutritional program. I can then
    test my theories in the field - the jogging field, that is.

    Nelson Win

  6. "Nelson Win" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Were you getting your rest? I've noted by personal observation that my resting pulse rate rises
    progressively if I continuously "run on" 2 to 6 hour nights.

    Good point! My sleep was broken (would wake after afew hours) and not long enough (5 or 6 hours).
    Jogging deepened my sleep a few times, though. But it didn't last.

    One needs their sleep. As one ages sleep quality deteroiates so the comment that older folks need
    less sleep is wrong. They just tend to get less sleep due to pain, frequency of urination, and
    hormonal dysregulation. I've found that melatonin tends to increase sleep quality though it doesn't
    help to reset the circadian rhythm. If you tend to stay awake too late, it will not help. I've been
    on and off it and I've not noticed any dependency due to exogenous melatonin use.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    What supplements are you taking?

    None, but intend taking a range of antioxidants (vitamins, OPCs, lipoic acid etc), essential
    saccharides and glutamine - from my research these are my best bet at the moment. I'm open to
    suggestions here.

    I wouldn't forget the B's. I take a high gamma vitamin E. It said if one takes lipoic acid then they
    should take extra biotin. Vitamin K looks like a useful supplement provided you aren't clot prone.
    It has antioxidant properties as well as helps to prevent hardening of the arteries and keeping the
    bones strong. I use gingko and pine bark extract, these seem to help endothelial function as does
    arginine which I also take.

    "essential saccharides".....what do you mean?

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    What does your diet look like?

    Little red meat and chicken, mostly fish, some tofu, eggs, little dairy, complex carbs, greens and
    fruit. Under 2000 calories daily.

    It sounds fair. I'd also include raw nuts such as filberts, pecans, walnuts, pumpkin seeds, and
    sunflower seeds. You maybe trying to run on too few calories. It is easy to deceive ones self on the
    amount of daily calorie intake unless one counts calories. I simply burn more calories than
    that......but that is just me and my lifestyle.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    Were you running ever day or every other day?

    At the most every other day. I kept it to 3 times per week.

    Very good. At your age it is vital to have a good stretching routine and good shoes. I don't like
    Nike Air running shoes as they go flat. Sorbathane insoles can be nice addition if you can find a
    pair of shoes in which they will fit........I've had very mixed success with this.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    Given your age, your body is making less testosterone, dhea, free testosterone, and growth
    hormone.

    Good point. My blood test for all these is at the lower end of the reference range. In fact, all
    my hormone levels are low.

    Low testosterone can have whole range of adverse effects. If you are in the low "normal" range, you
    are going very likely undergoing these effects. In a word, you are in andropause......or so I'd
    guess. I'd strongly consider raising your testosterone levels, if I were you. There are indirect
    means as well as direct means. At a minimum, I start physician shopping to find one willing to
    prescribe testosterone gels or pellets or HCG. The book, "The Testosterone Syndrome" is a good
    popular level book on the topic. As most physician are poorly informed on the topic, it vital to be
    up to speed on the topic. Endocrinologists are best.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    At your age, I'd suggest a lower impact exercise like swimming or the use of a Stairmaster.

    I'll stick to slow jogging as long as I can, I enjoy it. I also see it as a litmus test for my
    health and an unmasker of underlying problems.

    When I was your age, I would have said the same thing. The problem is running can create problems as
    well as unmask them. Weight bearing exercises are also very important. With running, it is vital to
    exercise the abdominal and lower back muscles to protect the back.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    What meds are you taking? Niacin?


    None at present.

    Good. At you age, it would be good to start monitoring your blood pressure on a regular basis.

    Finally, I hope your body mass index is at least below 25 and better yet between 19 and 23 if you
    are a male.

    Quoted message said:


    Nelson

  7. Quoted message said:

    I've not noticed any dependency due to exogenous melatonin use.

    I too take melatonin, 2.5mg, and have found no dependency issues.

    Quoted message said:

    I take a high gamma vitamin E.

    I assume its gamma-tocopherol, not gamma-tocotrienol?

    Quoted message said:

    Vitamin K looks like a useful supplement provided you aren't clot prone. It has antioxidant
    properties as well as helps to prevent hardening of the arteries and keeping the bones strong. I
    use gingko and pine bark extract, these seem to help endothelial function as does arginine which I
    also take.

    Thanks, I plan to take all these, except Vitamin K, which I didn't know anything about, but will
    research it.

    Quoted message said:

    "essential saccharides".....what do you mean?

    I'm reading a book "Sugars That Heal" by Emil Mondoa. He says certain sugars (glyconutrients) may be
    essential in the diet (glucose is the most common, others less so). I'm taking this new information
    seriously. The subject of glyconutrtion has appeared in a few mainstream scientific publications
    recently. One source of glyconutrients is mushrooms. It may be the placebo effect, but I feel better
    since adding more mushrooms to my diet.

    Quoted message said:

    It sounds fair. I'd also include raw nuts such as filberts, pecans, walnuts, pumpkin seeds, and
    sunflower seeds. You maybe trying to run on too few calories. It is easy to deceive ones self on
    the amount of daily calorie intake unless one counts calories.

    Good point! I better count my calories during my next jogging program.

    Quoted message said:

    At your age it is vital to have a good stretching routine and good shoes.

    Good point. My gym offers yoga and pilate classes. I'll start attending regularly.

    Quoted message said:

    Low testosterone can have whole range of adverse effects. ...I'd strongly consider raising your
    testosterone levels

    Hmmm, tempting. I've heard good reports from testosterone users and that sales of testosterone in
    the US doubled last year. But I've also heard low testosterone levels increase lifespan (castrated
    males live 14 years longer). So I'll sit on the fence on this one for the time being. Ideally, I'd
    like my own body to make more testosterone.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I'll stick to slow jogging as long as I can, I enjoy it. I also see it as a litmus test for my
    health and an unmasker of underlying problems.


    When I was your age, I would have said the same thing. The problem is running can create problems
    as well as unmask them.

    I'll keep that in mind. It will take a lot to stop me from slow jogging - its such an enjoyable,
    relaxing state it puts me in, which walking doesn't.

    Quoted message said:

    Weight bearing exercises are also very important. With running, it is vital to exercise the
    abdominal and lower back muscles to protect the back.

    I fully agree. I've returned to working with weights and on my "abs". Using the "super slow" method,
    I feel re-charged after weight training, not drained.

    Nelson

  8. "Nelson Win" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    At 48 I returned to slow jogging after a break of many years. I wanted to improve my health
    (depressed) and energy levels (low). I took it easily and slowly, following all the medical advice
    as regards frequency and intensity. Yet my heart was weakened by it. After 8 weeks my heart beat
    faster for the same distance and pace as it did at the start of the program (I use a heart rate
    monitor watch). I felt it too - my heart began to race, an uncomfortable feeling (which has
    improved since I stopped jogging). I'm working on two theories as to why this happened.

    Let's see: Racing heart and uncomfortable feeling with excercise? Call your doctor. Today.

    Jeff

    (...)

  9. Jeff said:

    "Nelson Win" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    At 48 I returned to slow jogging after a break of many years. I wanted to improve my health
    (depressed) and energy levels (low).

    Quoted message said:

    Let's see: Racing heart and uncomfortable feeling with excercise? Call your doctor. Today.

    Likely...Drum roll. Maybe something is going on and exercise exacerbates the problem. As others have
    suggested see your GP for a checkup and a possible diagnosis. It's also possible that while you
    think you started off slowly it may still be too much for your current physical condition, aka
    overtraining.

    Even if a good bill of heath start off with a walking program. In your spare time take a look at
    runnersworld.com0,1300,,00.html an focus on startup training. .

    --
    Doug Freese [email hidden]

  10. Once upon a time, our fellow Jeff rambled on about "Re: Aerobic Exercise - Went Backwards - Why?."
    Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

    Quoted message said:

    Let's see: Racing heart and uncomfortable feeling with excercise? Call your doctor. Today.

    Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

    Call your doctor. Today? Yeah, ... Sure, Right! Doctors got to feed their kiddies too. You might as
    well call you plumber!!!

    Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

  11. "Nelson Win" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I've not noticed any dependency due to exogenous melatonin use.

    I too take melatonin, 2.5mg, and have found no dependency issues.

    Quoted message said:

    I take a high gamma vitamin E.

    I assume its gamma-tocopherol, not gamma-tocotrienol?

    Yes. Ideally I'd upgrade my supplement choice to include the latter.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    Vitamin K looks like a useful supplement provided you aren't clot prone. It has antioxidant
    properties as well as helps to prevent hardening of the arteries and keeping the bones strong. I
    use gingko and pine bark extract, these seem to help endothelial function as does arginine which
    I also take.

    Thanks, I plan to take all these, except Vitamin K, which I didn't know anything about, but will
    research it.

    Well it is worth it.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    "essential saccharides".....what do you mean?

    I'm reading a book "Sugars That Heal" by Emil Mondoa. He says certain sugars (glyconutrients) may
    be essential in the diet (glucose is the most common, others less so). I'm taking this new
    information seriously. The subject of glyconutrtion has appeared in a few mainstream scientific
    publications recently. One source of glyconutrients is mushrooms. It may be the placebo effect,
    but I feel better since adding more mushrooms to my diet.

    Thanks. Your comment should provide a search word or two to get me started.

    Quoted message said:


    <snip things we agree on>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Low testosterone can have whole range of adverse effects. ...I'd strongly consider raising your
    testosterone levels

    Hmmm, tempting. I've heard good reports from testosterone users and that sales of testosterone in
    the US doubled last year. But I've also heard low testosterone levels increase lifespan (castrated
    males live 14 years longer). So I'll sit on the fence on this one for the time being. Ideally, I'd
    like my own body to make more testosterone.

    This issue is complex. Many MD's don't understand it. I'll suggest two other usenet forums:
    alt.support.impotence and sci.life-extension. One doesn't have to be impotent to benefit from the
    former forum. It is possible with use to HCG to make the Leydig cells make more testosterone. Don't
    assume that low T will lengthen your life; moreover, low levels will impair the quality of your
    life. Low T can weaken your heart, your bones, trigger depression, reduce motivation, abolish
    libido, and render impotent. Also there is the issues of elevated estrogen and prolactin in males
    causing various adverse effects.

    You are in andropause.

    Quoted message said:

    I fully agree. I've returned to working with weights and on my "abs". Using the "super slow"
    method, I feel re-charged after weight training, not drained.


    Sounds good.

    William Noyes

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