Affordable Road Bike

"Adam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It's going to be used for commuting every day, rain or shine, but probably
not much else. Obviously the advice on every "beginner's guide to buying a
bike" website is to get a hybrid - but I'd quite like to get a bike with
drop handle bars because:
- it's what I'm used to
- you can squeeze through the queues easier
- you go faster?? (e.g. due to riding position?)

My budget is roughly £300 to £500.

I reckon you want an audax bike or a tourer. The latter is probably heavier
and sturdier.

I used a galaxy for several years, and it was a pretty good commuting
machine. The replacement audax-style bike is a bit more expensive and a bit
nicer - but the frame and forks were over 200 quid alone.
Dawes Horizon is 350 quid from spa.

'road bikes', ie for racing/riding fast will feel faster than the tourer - I
don't know how important this is to you. The audax-type bike is a good
compromise IMO.

Strange option : fixed wheel. Base it on an old racer with horizontal
dropouts and mudguard clearance, put a hub dynamo and mudgards on, and
you've got a very sturdy commuter. (I used a saddlebag when I had one of
these. I don't live in Cambridge any more.).

cheers,
clive

Adam said:

Hi All,

After many years riding a clapped out old,
second-hand-when-I-bought-it-as-a-penniless-student racer, I've
finally decided to buy a new bike :-) and, you've guessed it, I'm
looking for some advice.

It's going to be used for commuting every day, rain or shine, but
probably not much else. Obviously the advice on every "beginner's
guide to buying a bike" website is to get a hybrid - but I'd quite
like to get a bike with drop handle bars because:
- it's what I'm used to
- you can squeeze through the queues easier
- you go faster?? (e.g. due to riding position?)

All reasonable IMHO.

Quoted message said:

My budget is roughly £300 to £500.

Should be adequate.

Quoted message said:

I've been strangely under- *and* over-whelmed by choice. I went into a
couple of bike shops and they both gave me the massive choice of their
£500 racer or, well, that was it. (Also, the Surrey Quays Decathlon is
just round the corner from me and I went in there and they do a racer
for £250. I'm scared it'll be really crappy though.)

Quoted message said:

Then I looked on the internet and found a whole host of bikes for
around the 300-500 pound mark, but this is where I get overwhelmed.

Claud Butler: San Reno; Criterium
Dawes: Comp Giro 200 2005; Comp Giro 300 2005 ("4 stars"😉
Saracen: Tour 2005 Bike ("4 stars"😉
Scott: Speedster S5 Triple 2005 Bike
Specialized: Allez Double 2003; Allez Double 2005 Bike
Trek: 1000C 2005 Bike

How do I narrow it all down?

Ah, I think I spot the problem....

The above are almost all "racers". I suggest for commuting you need a
"tourer". The differences are primarily:

a) Mudguard clearance. Many race bikes don't have space for mudguards.
b) Bars at a "touring" height. Many race bikes have the drop bars set for
serious athletics, which is too low for traffic riding (or even most
people's backs!). These days, it usually requires additional parts to raise
handlebars.
c) Lighting. Somewhat essential for regular commuting.
d) Luggage capacity. Rear rack is the usual choice.
e) Clearance for fatter tyres.

Quoted message said:

Of course the trouble with internet buying is I don't get to size or
test-ride the bikes :-(

I think you need different bike shops !

Quoted message said:

I also talked to a guy at work who reckoned I might find a racer to be
too much hassle (maintenance-wise)

Any bike with derraileur gears has slightly higher maintenance than hub
gears. But that includes almost all mountain bikes and hybrids. Skinny thin
tyres might be a bit more puncture prone, another reason for the "tourer"
which will have space for fatter (and thicker) tyres.

Quoted message said:

and not that "sturdy".

Don't really believe that unless its a [censored] machine.

Quoted message said:

He mentioned
"hub" gear thingies and disc brakes being good (better in dirty, wet
city conditions) but I guess there're going to be out of my price
range?

Not necessarily, but unlikely to come with drop handlebars. Retro
conversion to drops might be difficult in your budget.

Suggestions:
1) second hand Dawes Galaxy (or something similar).
2) Dawes Horizon (on Evans website for £399, lights extra).
3) The Edinburgh Cycle Coop equivalent to the Horizon (currently missing
from their website, so guess its not in stock).

Must be others in the same theme for the budget, without drifting up in
price to Thorn, Hewitt or the bespoke custom builders.

In all cases, seriously consider a front-hub dynamo for lighting. SON is
usually regarded as the best (but at £120 for the hub, might be too
expensive by the time a wheel is built). Shimano do a decent alternative for
circa £60, so you ought to get a complete wheel for £100.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Adam said:

Even the website of Evans Cycles (who gave me a choice of 1 in the shop)
has a whole load of bikes in my price range :-(
Claud Butler: San Reno; Criterium
Dawes: Comp Giro 200 2005; Comp Giro 300 2005 ("4 stars"😉
Saracen: Tour 2005 Bike ("4 stars"😉
Scott: Speedster S5 Triple 2005 Bike
Specialized: Allez Double 2003; Allez Double 2005 Bike
Trek: 1000C 2005 Bike

How do I narrow it all down?

I can't help you narrow it down much, but I started off with similar
criteria to yours and ended up with the Claud Butler San Remo, mainly
because my LBS had a good deal on the previous year's model.

I've had no real problems with it as a daily commuting bike, and I cycle
all year round 7 miles each way. I certainly wouldn't say it's needed
much maintenance, or anything that I would consider 'too much hassle'.

By most proper roadies' standards I'm not that quick, but I'm definitely
one of the fastest commuters along my route. Which is nice :-)

"Adam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It's going to be used for commuting every day, rain or shine, but probably
not much else. [...] bike with drop handle bars [...]
My budget is roughly £300 to £500.

I looked for a similar thing a few months ago and decided on the Edinburgh
Bike Coop
Revolution Country. Its sturdy enough (I'm no lightweight), reasonably
quick, comfortable,
carries luggage well and has performed quite nicely on the few hundred miles
I've done
on it. It turned up on time, nicely set up and as per the spec. I couldn't
be happier with it.

stephen

Adam said:

I've been strangely under- *and* over-whelmed by choice. I went into a
couple of bike shops and they both gave me the massive choice of their
£500 racer or, well, that was it. (Also, the Surrey Quays Decathlon is
just round the corner from me and I went in there and they do a racer for
£250. I'm scared it'll be really crappy though.)

Looks perfectly good to me.
Aluminium frame, Sora components.

I have a Claud Butler bike, which it a similar thing.
Main variation I made early on was to fit Specialized Armadillos,
for lose lovely London roads.

But to be very honest, these bikes are pretend racing bikes.
Very thin tyres, and close ratio gears.
If you want a communting bike, think of the Triban which you quite like.

Quoted message said:

I also talked to a guy at work who reckoned I might find a racer to be too
much hassle (maintenance-wise) and not that "sturdy". He mentioned "hub"
gear thingies and disc brakes being good (better in dirty, wet city
conditions) but I guess there're going to be out of my price range?

The Carrera Sub 7 is in Halfords for £350 or so. It has hub gears.

My advice - think about the Edinburgh Bicycle Co-op Revolution too.
I saw one, and was quite taken with it. Good value for money, and well
liked by this group.

Or if you want the drop handlbar bike, the Decathlon.

ps. there is get-you-home maintenance workshop in Decathlon on Saturday
at 10am

pps. don't forget the 10% LCC member discount. Worth joining the LCC if
you are thinking of a new bike. Not in Decathlon though.

Adam said:

I also talked to a guy at work who reckoned I might find a racer to be
too much hassle (maintenance-wise) and not that "sturdy". He mentioned
"hub" gear thingies and disc brakes being good (better in dirty, wet
city conditions) but I guess there're going to be out of my price range?

Interestingly, Decathlon do a bike which partially fits this bill
(albeit with normal handlebars - what's the feasibility of retrofit?)
but it seems pretty weird to me - not sure what to make of it:
http://tinyurl.com/dns9p

if you live near this lot try
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/details.asp?D=X&Cat=RIBBLE&Section=XRIB&GenCode=RIBBXRIB0225

Enough people have had bad experience of there mail order service that I
would not risk it.

Peter

"Adam" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

It's going to be used for commuting every day, rain or shine, but
probably not much else. Obviously the advice on every "beginner's guide
to buying a bike" website is to get a hybrid - but I'd quite like to get
a bike with drop handle bars because:

Quoted message said:

- it's what I'm used to

OK, but do you actually use the drop section apart from during braking?

Quoted message said:

- you can squeeze through the queues easier

Is it?
http://bikesite.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/page8.html

I didn't do it this way to get through gaps though. Primarily to get the
body position of a hoods grip but to improve hand & neck comfort, brake
access & control.

Quoted message said:

- you go faster?? (e.g. due to riding position?)

Aren't tri-bars better if this is an issue?

in message <[email hidden]>, Adam

(') said:

Hi All,

After many years riding a clapped out old,
second-hand-when-I-bought-it-as-a-penniless-student racer, I've finally
decided to buy a new bike :-) and, you've guessed it, I'm looking for
some advice.

It's going to be used for commuting every day, rain or shine, but
probably not much else. Obviously the advice on every "beginner's guide
to buying a bike" website is to get a hybrid - but I'd quite like to
get a bike with drop handle bars because:
- it's what I'm used to
- you can squeeze through the queues easier
- you go faster?? (e.g. due to riding position?)

My budget is roughly £300 to £500.

I've been strangely under- *and* over-whelmed by choice. I went into a
couple of bike shops and they both gave me the massive choice of their
£500 racer or, well, that was it. (Also, the Surrey Quays Decathlon is
just round the corner from me and I went in there and they do a racer
for £250. I'm scared it'll be really crappy though.)

Then I looked on the internet and found a whole host of bikes for
around the 300-500 pound mark, but this is where I get overwhelmed. How
do I pick one from many? For example 8 bikes here:
http://tinyurl.com/a7vvj
(Including a Smith UK Custom on offer which was recommended by someone
on this group a short while ago.)

Even the website of Evans Cycles (who gave me a choice of 1 in the
shop) has a whole load of bikes in my price range :-(
Claud Butler: San Reno; Criterium

These are remarkably OK for the price. Mind you, the Vicenza is even
nicer, and the Strada is rather astonishing value for money.

Quoted message said:

Dawes: Comp Giro 200 2005; Comp Giro 300 2005 ("4 stars"😉
Saracen: Tour 2005 Bike ("4 stars"😉
Scott: Speedster S5 Triple 2005 Bike
Specialized: Allez Double 2003; Allez Double 2005 Bike

The Allez is nice, but remarkably heavy.

Quoted message said:

Trek: 1000C 2005 Bike

How do I narrow it all down?

Well, first, don't miss the Giant OCR series. The OCR 3T is an
astonishing 29% lighter than the base model Specialized Allez and
substantially cheaper, too, despite the fact that they're both mainly
Sora equipped (the Allez does have a Tiagra rear mech).

Ride them all, see which you feel most comfortable on. Some things I
would suggest:

Comfort matters most: if two are otherwise equally good, get the more
comfortable - but get them adjusted to fit you before making that
judgement, because a bike that doesn't fit won't be comfortable. A shop
that won't adjust a bike for you to try isn't worth buying from.

Weight matters next: if two are otherwise equally good, get the lighter.

Ergonomics matters quite a lot: if two are equally good, one has Shimano,
one has Campag, get the Campag. I used to think you should avoid bottom
of the range Campag, but having watched a few beginners struggling with
Shimano's untrimmable shifters and accidentally changing gear when they
wanted to brake, I've changed my mind. Campag are sufficiently better on
the ergonomics that it's worth a good bit on the price. Mind you, for
anything but bottom of the range Campag, it will /mean/ a good bit on
the price.

Yup, I _know_ that's going to start a flamewar.

Quoted message said:

Of course the trouble with internet buying is I don't get to size or
test-ride the bikes :-(

Don't buy a bike on the Internet. What you'll save is not worth it. If
you buy from a local bike shop, you'll get to try before you buy, you'll
get the size right, and you'll almost always get a free service after a
few weeks when things have had a bit of time to bed in. That's got to be
worth 10% on the price, probably more. And when you have trouble and
need help from your LBS, you'll already be a known face.

Quoted message said:

I also talked to a guy at work who reckoned I might find a racer to be
too much hassle (maintenance-wise) and not that "sturdy".

OK, maintenance. Having an exposed transmission (which all racing-type
bikes do) is not wonderful in dirty wet conditions. You have to keep
things clean and adjusted, and even so transmission parts will wear out
and need to be replaced. You are going to have to spend an hour or so a
week looking after a nice fast bike if you're using it for commuting,
otherwise it isn't going to work very well. There is merit in a
flat-barred hub-geared bike for commuting. For commuting in the rain
there's merit in good full length mudguards. But a sensible bike is very
often also a boring bike, and although you will get wet and filthy
carving up commuter traffic on a racing bike in winter, although you
will have to do more maintenance, you'll have a lot more fun.

And as for 'sturdy', bollocks. Racing bikes which aren't sturdy enough
for regular commuting cost several times your budget.

Quoted message said:

He mentioned
"hub" gear thingies and disc brakes being good (better in dirty, wet
city conditions) but I guess there're going to be out of my price
range?

Hub gears are better in dirty wet conditions, and can be a good thing on
a commuter bike. Disk brakes are better in dirty wet conditions, too -
but only for values of 'dirty' which include foot deep mud. If you
rarely encounter mud more than a couple of inches deep, disk brakes only
add weight. They're of no practical value on road, unless for some
reason (e.g. monoblades) you can't fit normal calipers.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; All in all you're just another hick in the mall
-- Drink C'lloid

Hi,

Thanks a lot for the replies already :-)

Looks like heading down the tourer route is the way to go. (Audax sounds
good but at ~£750 is pretty much out of my budget.)

I've emailed Edinburgh Co-Op about their tourer and will have a look
around for Dawes Horizon prices and details.

John Hearns said:

If you want a communting bike, think of the Triban which you quite like.

Yeah, I kind of want to buy it just to figure out how this whole, funky,
hub gear thing works! Is having no front gears normal? However, I'm
still looking for drop handle bars so it gets ruled out, I guess. (Sorry
about the poor webpage for those not familiar with it. The 2nd thing
which got my attention is it's got disc brakes on the front wheel.)

Quoted message said:

ps. there is get-you-home maintenance workshop in Decathlon on Saturday
at 10am

Cheers, I'll check that out.

Peter Simons said:

if you live near this lot try
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/details.asp?D=X&Cat=RIBBLE&Section=XRIB&GenCode=RIBBXRIB0225

Interesting - sadly I live quite a way away.

DavidR said:

"Adam" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

a bike with drop handle bars because:

Quoted message said:

- it's what I'm used to

OK, but do you actually use the drop section apart from during braking?

<thinks> Yep, I'm pretty sure I do.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- you can squeeze through the queues easier

Is it?
http://bikesite.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/page8.html

Heh.

Thanks all,
Adam
--
Adam Richardson
Carpe Diem

Quoted message said:

I've emailed Edinburgh Co-Op about their tourer and will have a look
around for Dawes Horizon prices and details.

I'd look out for a 2nd hand, nearly new Dawes Galaxy. I picked one up
earlier this year for under 300 quid, it is a 2001 model and had done only
300 miles. It was literally new, and it is an excellent bike to ride.

Adam said:

After many years riding a clapped out old,
second-hand-when-I-bought-it-as-a-penniless-student racer, I've finally
decided to buy a new bike :-) and, you've guessed it, I'm looking for
some advice.

It's going to be used for commuting every day, rain or shine, but
probably not much else. Obviously the advice on every "beginner's guide
to buying a bike" website is to get a hybrid - but I'd quite like to get
a bike with drop handle bars...

My budget is roughly £300 to £500.

I've been strangely under- *and* over-whelmed by choice.

I've just been through exactly the same thing as you - wanting to get a
new bike for commuting 7 or so miles each way every day, for almost
exactly the same budget. I pored over old magazines, talked to people
and got lots of different advice, looked at websites and talked to
people in shops. In the end none of that made any difference - I rode
several bikes from my local shops (several times...) and the moment I
sat on the right one it felt like the right one.

For me it was the Dawes Horizon (£430) but you'll have to find out for
yourself what you need, so I suggest going to your bike shop and asking
if you can try a few bikes. Mine spent ages swapping saddles and stems
for me, adjusting this and that, in an effort to find the right thing
for me (in the end I was starting to get embarrassed about how much time
they spent over helping me choose a bike).

Daniele

Nigel Cliffe said:

b) Bars at a "touring" height. Many race bikes have the drop bars set
for serious athletics, which is too low for traffic riding (or even
most people's backs!). These days, it usually requires additional
parts to raise handlebars.

Bars can be raised by replacing the stem for one with lots of rise. I
have an almost touring position on my road bike now. Still goes much
faster than a tourer, though!

Your other points are fair enough and a tourer or audax bike would better
fit the OP's bill. On the other hand, Adam might enjoy a road race bike
so much that he'd end up using it for more than commuting.

~PB

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Adam

(') said:

Of course the trouble with internet buying is I don't get to size or
test-ride the bikes :-(

Don't buy a bike on the Internet. What you'll save is not worth it.

Yes, a couple of people have made this point (and I'm sympathetic to
it) but the trouble is the price difference at the moment is in the
hundreds of pounds - not 10%. And in any case the bike shops I've been
into simply don't have *any* choice - it's no good saying "you can try
different ones out and pick the one you like" if there's only a choice
of one!

If anyone can recommend a good bike shop with a wide range of low-cost
bikes within tube/train/bus distance of SE London then I'd be grateful!

Cheers,
Adam

Quoted message said:

If anyone can recommend a good bike shop with a wide range of low-cost
bikes within tube/train/bus distance of SE London then I'd be grateful!

Depends what you mean by "low cost", really.

I popped into Evans recently (the Waterloo Cut branch, which seemed to
be quite roadie & commuter oriented -
http://www.evanscycles.com/stores.jsp#store_130 - bottom of page)

Loads of bikes from sub-£500 to over £3000. Dawes, Specialized, Trek,
Cannondale, Bianchi and more all lined up and looking fabulous!

I'm not connected with them, nor have I bought a bike from them, but
they're definitely well stocked and I haven't heard any complaints
about them on this NG. (The staff let me wander about for *ages*
drooling over bikes without bothering me at all, so they got big
brownie points for that!).

Also bear in mind that if you can wait a couple of months you'll
start to see discounts on this year's bikes as the 2006 models come
out.

--
jc

Remove the -not from email

in message <[email hidden]>, Peter Simons

(') said:

Adam said:

I also talked to a guy at work who reckoned I might find a racer to be
too much hassle (maintenance-wise) and not that "sturdy". He mentioned
"hub" gear thingies and disc brakes being good (better in dirty, wet
city conditions) but I guess there're going to be out of my price
range?

Interestingly, Decathlon do a bike which partially fits this bill
(albeit with normal handlebars - what's the feasibility of retrofit?)
but it seems pretty weird to me - not sure what to make of it:
http://tinyurl.com/dns9p

if you live near this lot try

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/details.asp?D=X&Cat=RIBBLE&Section=XRIB&GenCode=RIBBXRIB0225

Woah! That one is a bargain. Dolan frame and Campag groupset and wheels
for under £500!

Simon, who just happens to ride a Dolan frame with a Campag groupset...

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Due to financial constraints, the light at the end of the tunnel
has been switched off.

Last years Dawes galaxy new for £500 if you search ads in cycling mags
- there may even be a shop near you doing it. Really good value

cheers

Jacob

Peter Simons said:

Adam said:

I also talked to a guy at work who reckoned I might find a racer to be
too much hassle (maintenance-wise) and not that "sturdy". He mentioned
"hub" gear thingies and disc brakes being good (better in dirty, wet
city conditions) but I guess there're going to be out of my price range?

Interestingly, Decathlon do a bike which partially fits this bill
(albeit with normal handlebars - what's the feasibility of retrofit?)
but it seems pretty weird to me - not sure what to make of it:
http://tinyurl.com/dns9p

if you live near this lot try
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/details.asp?D=X&Cat=RIBBLE&Section=XRIB&GenCode=RIBBXRIB0225

Enough people have had bad experience of there mail order service that I
would not risk it.

don't think the postage is the main promble with Ribble, it is lighting
a fire under them to get them to build/package anything in a timescale.
That bike will be bespoke so might take some time to arrive. As a guide
I ordered a Ribble frame in September (wrong size, my fault) and the
bike was first ridden 3 days before Xmas!. But I would consider them
again; £499 for a proper audax bike is hard to beat, just don't expect
speedy service.

Hi All,

Just thought I'd say thanks for all the advice. I've just received my shiny
new Dawes Horizon and very nice it seems too! Hopefully I'll be cycling in to
work on Monday...

Cheers,
Adam

--
Adam Richardson
Carpe Diem