Ahhhh, The Good Hamburger

Dave Bugg said:

Some hints on making a great burger. As Sheldon always says: "Grind your own
meat".

.... using a food processor ?!!?!?

Pbbbbt!

-sw

On 23 May 2007 13:07:39 -0700, Sheldon <[email hidden]> wrote:

For the life of me I can't comprehend why so many

Quoted message said:

(who claim to be cooks) have an aversion to owning a meat grinder, it
can't be the few dollars, not when the same fools spend hundreds on
stupid designer cookware. Imagine, folks spend upwards of $200 on a
little pan and thousands on a grill to cook mystery meat.

Sheldon

Well..I am now thinking of getting a meat grinder. I know various
brands, etc have been mentioned here at one time or another, but I
certainly can't remember which ones they are.

So, for any of you, what's a decent model/brand,etc? I have a
KitchenAid attachment, but I think I am wanting a standalone one now.
I can't afford too much money though...

Christine

"Dave Bugg" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:bI05i.448$Ui3.367
@newsfe04.lga:

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/2o46vv

WOW!!! This is scary!!! According to the article:

If you grind your own beef, you can make a mixture and taste it raw. To
reassure the queasy, there's little difference, safety-wise, between raw
beef and rare beef: salmonella is killed at 160 degrees, and rare beef is
cooked to 125 degrees.)

Who ever wrote this should be sued for reckless public endangerment because
he knows nothing about salmonella. It infects the SURFACE of beef - not
the interior. This means you can eat rare steak or roasts because, while
the interior temperature is less than 160 degrees, the exterior, where the
salmonella resides, is well above that when the steak or roast is cooked
and the deadly bacteria is therefore killed.

However, if you grind that same cut of beef, the infected exterior surface
gets mixed up with the interior, and if you cook that mixture to anything
less than an interior temperature of 160 degrees (well done), you run the
risk of contracting a bacterial e-coli infection.

Bottom line: ALL GROUND BEEF, BE IT STORE-BOUGHT OR HOME-GROUND, SHOULD BE
COOKED TO A MINIMUM INTERIOR TEMPERATURE OF 160 DEGREES. Anything less and
you're putting your life and that of your children in danger.

M

MORON Stayner said:

"Dave Bugg" wrote

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/2o46vv

WOW!!! This is scary!!! According to the article:

If you grind your own beef, you can make a mixture and taste it raw. To
reassure the queasy, there's little difference, safety-wise, between raw
beef and rare beef: salmonella is killed at 160 degrees, and rare beef is
cooked to 125 degrees.)

Who ever wrote this should be sued for reckless public endangerment because
he knows nothing about salmonella. It infects the SURFACE of beef - not
the interior. This means you can eat rare steak or roasts because, while
the interior temperature is less than 160 degrees, the exterior, where the
salmonella resides, is well above that when the steak or roast is cooked
and the deadly bacteria is therefore killed.

However, if you grind that same cut of beef, the infected exterior surface
gets mixed up with the interior, and if you cook that mixture to anything
less than an interior temperature of 160 degrees (well done), you run the
risk of contracting a bacterial e-coli infection.

Bottom line: ALL GROUND BEEF, BE IT STORE-BOUGHT OR HOME-GROUND, SHOULD BE
COOKED TO A MINIMUM INTERIOR TEMPERATURE OF 160 DEGREES. Anything less and
you're putting your life and that of your children in danger.

MORON STAINER <--- Yes, that's you.

In your little moron world the element of *time* does not exist... you
are truly retarded.

Sheldon

Sheldon <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

MORON Stayner said:

"Dave Bugg" wrote

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/2o46vv

WOW!!! This is scary!!! According to the article:

If you grind your own beef, you can make a mixture and taste it raw.
To reassure the queasy, there's little difference, safety-wise,
between raw beef and rare beef: salmonella is killed at 160 degrees,
and rare beef is cooked to 125 degrees.)

Who ever wrote this should be sued for reckless public endangerment
because he knows nothing about salmonella. It infects the SURFACE of
beef - not the interior. This means you can eat rare steak or roasts
because, while the interior temperature is less than 160 degrees, the
exterior, where the salmonella resides, is well above that when the
steak or roast is cooked and the deadly bacteria is therefore killed.

However, if you grind that same cut of beef, the infected exterior
surface gets mixed up with the interior, and if you cook that mixture
to anything less than an interior temperature of 160 degrees (well
done), you run the risk of contracting a bacterial e-coli infection.

Bottom line: ALL GROUND BEEF, BE IT STORE-BOUGHT OR HOME-GROUND,
SHOULD BE COOKED TO A MINIMUM INTERIOR TEMPERATURE OF 160 DEGREES.
Anything less and you're putting your life and that of your children
in danger.

MORON STAINER <--- Yes, that's you.

In your little moron world the element of *time* does not exist... you
are truly retarded.

Sheldon

What kind of a person changes someone's signature, makes it appear as a
quote, and then states: "Yes, that's you."

If you don't agree with what I said, why don't you refute it and post
some references (link to web sites) to prove your point, instead of
resorting to name-calling. But of course, you're Sheldon and everyone
knows about you.

M

Moroon [Stainer] STINKER loogied:

Quoted message said:

MOROON!

Sheldon <[email hidden]> wrote in news:1179965953.228157.65190
@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

Quoted message said:

Moroon [Stainer] STINKER loogied:

Quoted message said:

MOROON!

I'm not going to let this go because it's too important, especially now
that the BBQ season is here.

Here are a just three excerpts from hundreds, inf not thousands of
articles about cooking ground beef.

Of course, Sheldon knows more than any of these people, including Harold
McGee, a world-renowned scientist who specializes in the chemistry of
foods and cooking.

Oh, and Sheldon, please respond in your usual manner to confirm your lack
of social responsiblity and intelligence.

M

http://www.beefusa.org/NEWSAMERICASMEATTEMPERATUREIQNEEDSIMPROVEMENT4374.
aspx
Not only do Americans not use an instant-read thermometer, they are not
aware of the proper cooking temperatures for different cuts of beef. The
survey found that only five percent of the respondents correctly
identified the proper temperature of 160 degrees F for ground beef
patties. Three-quarters of all respondents replied that they judge the
safety of ground beef by its color rather than accurately checking
doneness with an instant-read thermometer. No respondents knew that the
minimum internal temperature of steak must be at least 145 degrees F, and
only five percent recognized that the internal temperature of ground beef
must be at least 160 degrees F to be safe.

http://www.hormel.com/templates/knowledge/knowledge.asp?catitemid=19&id=
104

Bacteria such as E. Coli may be present on any cut of beef, but it is
most common on ground beef because the grinding process may distribute
the bacteria throughout the meat. Whole beef cuts usually have bacteria
on the surface, so cooking them to an internal temperature of 145°F is
sufficient to kill the bacteria. (The surface of the meat will be at a
much higher temperature; usually 160°F or higher). Ground beef must be
cooked until the internal temperature reaches a minimum of 160°F to
ensure that dangerous bacteria are destroyed.

Traditional guidelines state that beef cooked very rare, rare, or medium
rare should have an internal temperature ranging between 115ºF to 140°F.
With increased concern over bacteria that may be present in the internal
portions of meat, it is now recommended that whole beef cuts be cooked to
an internal temperature of not less than 145°F, even though bacteria is
usually only on the surface of the meat. Searing beef on the stovetop
before roasting is also a good method of killing surface bacteria as well
as browning the surface and adding flavor.

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/mh_beef/article/0,1977,FOOD_10263_
4852388,00.html

A Few Notes on Beef Safety:

When determining the temperature to cook your beef to, there's a crucial
distinction to be made between whole muscle cuts and ground beef. The
food scientist Harold McGee explains:

"...meats inevitably harbor bacteria, and it takes temperatures of 160
degrees Fahrenheit or higher to guarantee the rapid destruction of the
bacteria that can cause human disease-temperatures at which meat is well-
done and has lost much of its moisture. So is eating juicy, pink-red meat
risky? Not if the cut is an intact piece of healthy muscle tissue, a
steak or chop, and its surface has been thoroughly cooked: bacteria are
on the meat surfaces, not inside."

In other words, with whole cuts of beef it is the external temp, not the
internal temp that must exceed 160 degrees Fahrenheit. Normal cooking
methods-sautéing, grilling, roasting, braising, etc.-raise surface
temperatures far above 160 degrees Fahrenheit. (To get a sense of this,
consider that meat only begins to brown at 230 degrees Fahrenheit.)
People very rarely get sick from rare or medium rare meat.
Overwhelmingly, people get sick from the way beef is handled in the home:
from cross-contamination, lack of cleanliness and holding meat at
dangerous temps. Internal temperature should be the least of your
worries.

Nonetheless we should emphasize that extra caution must be exercised when
cooking for at-risk groups, particularly the elderly, children under 7
and the immuno-compromised. In such cases, we suggest the USDA guidelines
be strictly followed.

When raw beef is ground up, the distinction between internal and external
no longer applies. McGee says:

"Ground meats are riskier, because the contaminated meat surface is
broken into small fragments and spread through the mass. The interior of
a raw hamburger usually does contain bacteria, and is safest if cooked
well done."

Because E. Coli is killed at 155 degrees Fahrenheit, the USDA sets the
minimum safe temperature for ground beef at 160 degrees Fahrenheit. We
can only second this.

Harold McGee's bio: "Harold McGee is a world-renowned authority on the
chemistry of foods and cooking....He has written two prizewinning books,
On Food and Cooking and The Curious Cook." For more on him see
www.curiouscook.com

Morvin Stayner said:

"Dave Bugg" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:bI05i.448$Ui3.367
@newsfe04.lga:

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/2o46vv

snip....

Quoted message said:

Bottom line: ALL GROUND BEEF, BE IT STORE-BOUGHT OR HOME-GROUND,
SHOULD BE COOKED TO A MINIMUM INTERIOR TEMPERATURE OF 160 DEGREES.
Anything less and you're putting your life and that of your children
in danger.

Let's keep things in the same context as the article. The article mentioned
tasting the grind raw as an option, not a necessity. It also mentioned that
one could also cook a small amount of the grind if one chooses.

As far as the real life danger of a food borne illness like salmonella is
concerned, it is exactly the same as what a restaurant would serve as a
Tartare. And yes, tartare's are allowed to be served in restaurants. The
risk in a hamburger grind being contaminated with 015H7 or salmonella is
directly porportional to the amount of commercial bulk meat grinding being
done. There is very little risk, if any, of a home-use amount of meat from a
prepared primal cut being contaminated. Of course those with certain medical
conditions, young or old age, or immune system problems should be aware that
they have special concerns with regard to cats, raw meats and sexual
intercourse.

--
Dave (17 years with a public health district)
www.davebbq.com

Morvin Stayner said:

Sheldon <[email hidden]> wrote in news:1179965953.228157.65190
@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

Quoted message said:

Moroon [Stainer] STINKER loogied:

Quoted message said:

MOROON!

I'm not going to let this go because it's too important, especially
now that the BBQ season is here.

You mean grilling season. Hamburgers are grilled, not 'Qd
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

"Dave Bugg" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Morvin Stayner said:

"Dave Bugg" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:bI05i.448$Ui3.367
@newsfe04.lga:

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/2o46vv

snip....

Quoted message said:

Bottom line: ALL GROUND BEEF, BE IT STORE-BOUGHT OR HOME-GROUND,
SHOULD BE COOKED TO A MINIMUM INTERIOR TEMPERATURE OF 160 DEGREES.
Anything less and you're putting your life and that of your children
in danger.

Let's keep things in the same context as the article. The article
mentioned tasting the grind raw as an option, not a necessity. It also
mentioned that one could also cook a small amount of the grind if one
chooses.

As far as the real life danger of a food borne illness like salmonella
is concerned, it is exactly the same as what a restaurant would serve
as a Tartare. And yes, tartare's are allowed to be served in
restaurants. The risk in a hamburger grind being contaminated with
015H7 or salmonella is directly porportional to the amount of
commercial bulk meat grinding being done. There is very little risk,
if any, of a home-use amount of meat from a prepared primal cut being
contaminated. Of course those with certain medical conditions, young
or old age, or immune system problems should be aware that they have
special concerns with regard to cats, raw meats and sexual
intercourse.

The restaurants that serve steak-tartare are very careful about where they
get their cuts of meat. For extra protection, many also cut off the
exterior surface and serve only the never-before-exposed interior.

If you've been with the health department for 17 years, you should know
that most e-coli contamination occurs in meat packing plant where the
animals are killed. It is generally caused by the accidental tearing or
cutting of the animal's intestine, allowing cow-[censored] to get on the surface
of the meat.

After it's infected, it doesn't matter where the meat is ground. If the
surface is contaminated and it is ground, either at the plant or in your
home, you should cook it to 160 degrees to be safe.

M

Why worry?

Eat buffalo!

Andy

Morvin Stayner said:

"Dave Bugg" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Morvin Stayner said:

"Dave Bugg" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:bI05i.448$Ui3.367
@newsfe04.lga:

> http://tinyurl.com/2o46vv

snip....

Quoted message said:

Bottom line: ALL GROUND BEEF, BE IT STORE-BOUGHT OR HOME-GROUND,
SHOULD BE COOKED TO A MINIMUM INTERIOR TEMPERATURE OF 160 DEGREES.
Anything less and you're putting your life and that of your children
in danger.

Let's keep things in the same context as the article. The article
mentioned tasting the grind raw as an option, not a necessity. It
also mentioned that one could also cook a small amount of the grind
if one chooses.

As far as the real life danger of a food borne illness like
salmonella is concerned, it is exactly the same as what a restaurant
would serve
as a Tartare. And yes, tartare's are allowed to be served in
restaurants. The risk in a hamburger grind being contaminated with
015H7 or salmonella is directly porportional to the amount of
commercial bulk meat grinding being done. There is very little risk,
if any, of a home-use amount of meat from a prepared primal cut being
contaminated. Of course those with certain medical conditions, young
or old age, or immune system problems should be aware that they have
special concerns with regard to cats, raw meats and sexual
intercourse.

The restaurants that serve steak-tartare are very careful about where
they get their cuts of meat.

The same distributors serve grocers, and butchers as well as restaurants.

Quoted message said:

For extra protection, many also cut off
the exterior surface and serve only the never-before-exposed interior.

And that also occurs with butchers and grocers.

Quoted message said:

If you've been with the health department for 17 years

Yes, I have.

Quoted message said:

you should
know that most e-coli contamination occurs in meat packing plant
where the animals are killed. It is generally caused by the
accidental tearing or cutting of the animal's intestine, allowing
cow-[censored] to get on the surface of the meat.

Uh, yes. That really isn't a unique bit of knowledge.

Quoted message said:

After it's infected, it doesn't matter where the meat is ground.

Sure it does.

Quoted message said:

If
the surface is contaminated and it is ground, either at the plant or
in your home, you should cook it to 160 degrees to be safe.

And yet we've established that, as with tartare, home grinding of meat that
is safe can be accomplished. Again, the risk is very low that eating a bit
of uncooked ground beef, whether for tartare or hamburger, can be safe.

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

Morvin Stayner said:

http://www.beefusa.org/NEWSAMERICASMEATTEMPERATUREIQNEEDSIMPROVEMENT4374.
aspx
Not only do Americans not use an instant-read thermometer, they are not
aware of the proper cooking temperatures for different cuts of beef.

Ah, yes. So much easier to blame the consumer for being poisoned than
the producer. Nevermind that safe cooking temps render beef to
tastless shoeleather. If you stupid burger eaters would cook that
ground beef patty to death like we recommned, we can continue our
risky high production cattle processing practices that create the
perfect environment for e coli and mad cow and all those other toxic
afflictions you expose yourself to. How dare you impair out ability
to wring every last cent out of you at no cost to ourselves.

Besides, don't you dare even hint that we may be at fault. Remember
what we did to Oprah.

Note: I have no idea who made the above declaration. --nb

notbob said:

Morvin Stayner said:

http://www.beefusa.org/NEWSAMERICASMEATTEMPERATUREIQNEEDSIMPROVEMENT4374.
aspx
Not only do Americans not use an instant-read thermometer, they are
not aware of the proper cooking temperatures for different cuts of
beef.

Ah, yes. So much easier to blame the consumer for being poisoned than
the producer. Nevermind that safe cooking temps render beef to
tastless shoeleather. If you stupid burger eaters would cook that
ground beef patty to death like we recommned, we can continue our
risky high production cattle processing practices that create the
perfect environment for e coli and mad cow and all those other toxic
afflictions you expose yourself to. How dare you impair out ability
to wring every last cent out of you at no cost to ourselves.

Besides, don't you dare even hint that we may be at fault. Remember
what we did to Oprah.

Note: I have no idea who made the above declaration. --nb

Well, 'twarnt me :-)

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

"Dave Bugg" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

notbob wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ah, yes. So much easier to blame the consumer for being poisoned than
the producer. Nevermind that safe cooking temps render beef to
tastless shoeleather. If you stupid burger eaters would cook that
ground beef patty to death like we recommned, we can continue our
risky high production cattle processing practices that create the
perfect environment for e coli and mad cow and all those other toxic
afflictions you expose yourself to. How dare you impair out ability
to wring every last cent out of you at no cost to ourselves.

Besides, don't you dare even hint that we may be at fault. Remember
what we did to Oprah.

Note: I have no idea who made the above declaration. --nb

Well, 'twarnt me :-)

I hope you don't plan on pinning it on me, because you'll never be
able to prove it.

nancy

Dave Bugg said:

Moroon Stinker said:

"Dave Bugg" wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/2o46vv

Quoted message said:

Bottom line: ALL GROUND BEEF, BE IT STORE-BOUGHT OR HOME-GROUND,
SHOULD BE COOKED TO A MINIMUM INTERIOR TEMPERATURE OF 160 DEGREES.
Anything less and you're putting your life and that of your children
in danger.

Let's keep things in the same context as the article. The article mentioned
tasting the grind raw as an option, not a necessity. It also mentioned that
one could also cook a small amount of the grind if one chooses.

As far as the real life danger of a food borne illness like salmonella is
concerned, it is exactly the same as what a restaurant would serve as a
Tartare. And yes, tartare's are allowed to be served in restaurants. The
risk in a hamburger grind being contaminated with 015H7 or salmonella is
directly porportional to the amount of commercial bulk meat grinding being
done. There is very little risk, if any, of a home-use amount of meat from a
prepared primal cut being contaminated. Of course those with certain medical
conditions, young or old age, or immune system problems should be aware that
they have special concerns with regard to cats, raw meats and sexual
intercourse.

--
Dave (17 years with a public health district)www.davebbq.com

Moroon Stinker thinks when folks order steaks cooked med/rare and rare
they will die... the imbecile can't even comprehend the citations he
posted, they're in direct opposition to everything he claims. There
is no more chance of becoming ill from a steak cooked rare than there
is if that same steak were ground and soon thereafter cooked rare or
frozen and cooked rare months later. It's the preground mystery meat
that's processed in questionable sanitary conditions and then sits
around for a period of time where pathogens have *time* to multiply
that is dangerous. With mystery meat there is no way to know anything
about it's history, nothing whatsoever. The internal portion of meat
is sterile, and the exterior is very easy to sanitize by means other
than cooking. And commercially operated grinders are just not clean,
neither are the food handlers, it's just that simple... when was the
last time you actually witnessed butchers wash their hands before or
after grinding their meat, never. Moroon Stinker (troublemaking
pinheaded troll) is the worst kind of alarmist and an illiterate
douchebag.

Every home kitchen should have a meat grinder, were it I had what to
say I'd condemn any residence that didn't have a meat grinder as part
of the manditory kitchen facilities (ie. stove, sink, potable water,
fridge) in order to be deemed habitable.... were I had what to say
selling preground meat at the retail level would be illegal, a class A
felony, 1st offence 5 years, 2nd offence 20 years, 3rd offence life
without possibility of parole.

Sheldon

Nancy Young said:

I hope you don't plan on pinning it on me, because you'll never be
able to prove it.

Yeah! ...what she said. 😉

nb

"notbob" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Nancy Young said:

I hope you don't plan on pinning it on me, because you'll never be
able to prove it.

Yeah! ...what she said. 😉

(laugh)

nancy

Sheldon <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Moroon Stinker thinks when folks order steaks cooked med/rare and rare
they will die... the imbecile can't even comprehend the citations he
posted, they're in direct opposition to everything he claims. There
is no more chance of becoming ill from a steak cooked rare than there
is if that same steak were ground and soon thereafter cooked rare or
frozen and cooked rare months later. It's the preground mystery meat
that's processed in questionable sanitary conditions and then sits
around for a period of time where pathogens have *time* to multiply
that is dangerous. With mystery meat there is no way to know anything
about it's history, nothing whatsoever. The internal portion of meat
is sterile, and the exterior is very easy to sanitize by means other
than cooking. And commercially operated grinders are just not clean,
neither are the food handlers, it's just that simple... when was the
last time you actually witnessed butchers wash their hands before or
after grinding their meat, never. Moroon Stinker (troublemaking
pinheaded troll) is the worst kind of alarmist and an illiterate
douchebag.

Every home kitchen should have a meat grinder, were it I had what to
say I'd condemn any residence that didn't have a meat grinder as part
of the manditory kitchen facilities (ie. stove, sink, potable water,
fridge) in order to be deemed habitable.... were I had what to say
selling preground meat at the retail level would be illegal, a class A
felony, 1st offence 5 years, 2nd offence 20 years, 3rd offence life
without possibility of parole.

Sheldon

PLONK!