Air Crash Sites.

toad said:

In an attempt to add some fake 'purpose' to my walking I 'collect'
three things. Trig Points, Hewitt tops and Air Crash Sites. (It has to
be said that as yet I've seen a grand total of zero aircraft parts)

Quoted message said:

Anyone other UKRWers look out for air crash sites?

Not to the same extent as hill bagging. I'll wander over and have a
look if there is one near where I'm going. The chances of me wandering
over are increased enormously if there is something to see.
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/phil_spix/Oct03/exp.htm
--
Phil Cook, last hill: Angletarn Pikes via Beda Fell.

Phil Cook said:

Not to the same extent as hill bagging. I'll wander over and have a
look if there is one near where I'm going. The chances of me wandering
over are increased enormously if there is something to see.
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/phil_spix/Oct03/exp.htm

Do you have a grid ref for the Vampire, Phil? I plan to visit that again
very soon.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/weblog/

Paul Saunders said:

Phil Cook said:

Not to the same extent as hill bagging. I'll wander over and have a
look if there is one near where I'm going. The chances of me wandering
over are increased enormously if there is something to see.
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/phil_spix/Oct03/exp.htm

Do you have a grid ref for the Vampire, Phil? I plan to visit that again
very soon.

Let me see...
<Ozi> load track
Thinks... I had trouble with batteries, no the track is all there
except for when I was taking photos - the digicam I was using took the
same batteries as my GPS.
<compare timestamp with image file>
09:18 on 26/10/03
I was between SN 82638 20035 to SN 82686 20113 acording to my track.
--
Phil Cook, last hill: Angletarn Pikes via Beda Fell.

"Phil Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

toad said:

In an attempt to add some fake 'purpose' to my walking I 'collect'
three things. Trig Points, Hewitt tops and Air Crash Sites. (It has
to
be said that as yet I've seen a grand total of zero aircraft parts)

Quoted message said:

Anyone other UKRWers look out for air crash sites?

Not to the same extent as hill bagging. I'll wander over and have a
look if there is one near where I'm going. The chances of me
wandering
over are increased enormously if there is something to see.
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/phil_spix/Oct03/exp.htm
--
Phil Cook, last hill: Angletarn Pikes via Beda Fell.

There used to be a Hudson wreck on Beda Fell

Regards

Pat Macguire

In message <[email hidden]>, Phil Cook
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Paul Saunders said:

Phil Cook said:

Not to the same extent as hill bagging. I'll wander over and have a
look if there is one near where I'm going. The chances of me wandering
over are increased enormously if there is something to see.
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/phil_spix/Oct03/exp.htm

Do you have a grid ref for the Vampire, Phil? I plan to visit that again
very soon.

Let me see...
<Ozi> load track
Thinks... I had trouble with batteries, no the track is all there
except for when I was taking photos - the digicam I was using took the
same batteries as my GPS.
<compare timestamp with image file>
09:18 on 26/10/03
I was between SN 82638 20035 to SN 82686 20113 acording to my track.

The Grid reference was supplied by me!

Paul - you have mail :-)
--
Bill Grey

Phil Cook said:

Quoted message said:

Do you have a grid ref for the Vampire, Phil?

Let me see...
<Ozi> load track
Thinks... I had trouble with batteries, no the track is all there
except for when I was taking photos - the digicam I was using took the
same batteries as my GPS.
<compare timestamp with image file>
09:18 on 26/10/03
I was between SN 82638 20035 to SN 82686 20113 acording to my track.

Thanks Phil. The first GR looks correct for the main body of wreckage,
comparing the map with the photos. The bits of the nose section would be a
bit further south than the second GR, in the stream.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/weblog/

In message <[email hidden]>, toad
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

In an attempt to add some fake 'purpose' to my walking I 'collect'
three things. Trig Points, Hewitt tops and Air Crash Sites. (It has to
be said that as yet I've seen a grand total of zero aircraft parts)

The planes thing started when a chap on a hilltop stopped for a chat
and suggested a visit to the Beacons Mountain Centre (http://
www.brecon-beacons.com/mountain-centre.htm). Personally I thought it
was [censored] _but_ the literature available was first class. Amongst many
gems was a pamphlet of Beacon's air crash sites which was right up me
street.

Anyone other UKRWers look out for air crash sites?

Incidently, a quick web search search just turned this up:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/mid/sites/breconbeacons/pages/frankstokes.shtml

Ho toad,

A pity you didn't mention this prior to your recent visit to the Western
Fans - Fan Brycheiniog etc., I could have given you some grid refs for a
couple of wreck sites in the immediate vicinity.

Not far from Fan Brycheiniog - an Anson, a Vampire, and a Lancaster
Bomber all with some wreckage - NOT TO BE REMOVED AT ANY PRICE .
I'll e-mail a list of GR's.
--
Bill Grey

Phil Cook said:

SN 82638 20035

By the way, that's about 180m SSW of the GR listed in the Aircraft Crash
Sites handbook - SN 827 202.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/weblog/

Bill Grey said:

Quoted message said:

I was between SN 82638 20035 to SN 82686 20113 acording to my track.

The Grid reference was supplied by me!

Paul - you have mail :-)

Thanks Bill, so the correct GR is SN 82655 20048.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/weblog/

In message <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Bill Grey said:

Quoted message said:

I was between SN 82638 20035 to SN 82686 20113 acording to my track.

The Grid reference was supplied by me!

Paul - you have mail :-)

Thanks Bill, so the correct GR is SN 82655 20048.

Paul

Well as correct as my GPS 12 is :-)
--
Bill Grey

The message <[email hidden]>
from "Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/phil_spix/Oct03/exp.htm

Quoted message said:

Do you have a grid ref for the Vampire, Phil? I plan to visit that again
very soon.

I went looking for it some years ago in mist on a tour of all the wreck
sites on the Black Mountain other than the well known Wellington which
is a bit distant from the others. Didn't find it on that occasion armed
only with a grid ref and a gps. Visited it earlier this year approaching
from the Bwlch above in the clear and no problem finding it without a
grid ref. It is in the headwaters of the Haffes. On my previous attempt
I had been searching the Giedd. (I see in another message that the
reported GR was way out).

We later found the site of the Beaufighter wreck which is a much more
difficult proposition. Contouring round the side of Fan Hir makes a
change from endless traverses of the summit ridge.:-)

Incidentally I have my doubts about the reported position of the
American plane wreck on the summit of Moel Fiety. The grid reference is
right on the summit, there is no wreckage there and planes do not
usually crash right on a summit.

--
Roger Chapman
Nearest Marilyn still to be visited - Great Orme.
89 miles as the crow flies,
considerably more as the walker drives.

In article <[email hidden]>, Roger
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Incidentally I have my doubts about the reported position of the
American plane wreck on the summit of Moel Fiety. The grid reference is
right on the summit, there is no wreckage there and planes do not
usually crash right on a summit.

This site gives a grid ref close to the summit and shows the small
amount wreckage there:

http://www.gpswalker.cwc.net/liberator.htm

--

Dominic Sexton

The message <[email hidden]>
from Dominic Sexton <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Incidentally I have my doubts about the reported position of the
American plane wreck on the summit of Moel Fiety. The grid reference is
right on the summit, there is no wreckage there and planes do not
usually crash right on a summit.

Quoted message said:

This site gives a grid ref close to the summit and shows the small
amount wreckage there:

Quoted message said:

http://www.gpswalker.cwc.net/liberator.htm

The grid ref quoted - SN848230 - is the summit*. I am sure I would have
found the wreckage in the photograph, mist or no mist, if it was still
there and at that reference. :-)

*SN 84820 23010 laborously scaled off the paper map as Tracklogs won't
oblige with anything more than a 6 figure reference. The photograph is
not much help but if that is East of the actual summit then I think the
GR could be wrong. The man navigates by gps so why doesn't he quote the
10 figure reference?
--
Roger Chapman
Nearest Marilyn still to be visited - Great Orme.
89 miles as the crow flies,
considerably more as the walker drives.

On Tue, 22 May 2007 19:35:59 +0100, Roger <[email hidden]>
wrote:

|!The message <[email hidden]>
|!from Dominic Sexton <[email hidden]> contains these words:
|!
|!> >Incidentally I have my doubts about the reported position of the
|!> >American plane wreck on the summit of Moel Fiety. The grid reference is
|!> >right on the summit, there is no wreckage there and planes do not
|!> >usually crash right on a summit.
|!
|!> This site gives a grid ref close to the summit and shows the small
|!> amount wreckage there:
|!
|!> http://www.gpswalker.cwc.net/liberator.htm
|!
|!The grid ref quoted - SN848230 - is the summit*. I am sure I would have
|!found the wreckage in the photograph, mist or no mist, if it was still
|!there and at that reference. :-)
|!
|!*SN 84820 23010 laborously scaled off the paper map as Tracklogs won't
|!oblige with anything more than a 6 figure reference. The photograph is
|!not much help but if that is East of the actual summit then I think the
|!GR could be wrong. The man navigates by gps so why doesn't he quote the
|!10 figure reference?

Because a 10 figure reference should be accurate to *1 m*, and you should
never quote a measurement to a greater accuracy than reality allows.

Any crash site will be more than *10 m* across, 8 figure ref, and maybe
more than *100 m* across 6 figure ref.

Remember to allow for the inaccuracy of the gps as well.
--
Dave Fawthrop <sf hyphenologist.co.uk> 165 *Free* SF ebooks.
165 Sci Fi books on CDROM, from Project Gutenberg
http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page Completely Free to any
address in the UK. Contact me on the *above* email address.

Quoted message said:

Anyone other UKRWers look out for air crash sites?

Yup, i go frequently to the Peak District and bag a few wrecks.

Two excellent books for that area Dark Peak Aircraft Wrecks Vol 1 & 2 by
Ron Collier ISBN 1 871647 00 2 & ISBN 0 85052 336 2

Some excellent wrecks and some just off the Pennine Way before and after it
crosses Snake Path.

Also just got North West Aircraft Wrecks by Nick Wotherspoon & Peakland Air
Crashes by Pat Cunningham.but not had chance to do anything with them yet.

Dave

The message <[email hidden]>
from Dave Fawthrop <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Because a 10 figure reference should be accurate to *1 m*, and you should
never quote a measurement to a greater accuracy than reality allows.

In the real world the 10 figure readout from a gps gives a better
indication of position than a 6 figure grid ref and that is before you
consider the knotty problem of whether the grid reference has been given
as a point (as originally intended by the Army who developed the system
in this country) of as the corner of a square (as obscurely intended by
the OS who perverted the system when they belatedly adopted a National
Grid).

Quoted message said:

Any crash site will be more than *10 m* across, 8 figure ref, and maybe
more than *100 m* across 6 figure ref.

If you specify a point it would make sense to get the point as close to
the centre of the area as possible. In this particular case the area of
wreckage is less than a metre across anyway.

Quoted message said:

Remember to allow for the inaccuracy of the gps as well.

As well as what? If the crash site was half as large as you claim the 6
figure reference would get you to it. It would get you to it
particularly easily in this case as the summit of Moel Fiety has the
same reference as has been given for the crash site.

--
Roger Chapman
Nearest Marilyn still to be visited - Great Orme.
89 miles as the crow flies,
considerably more as the walker drives.

Bill Grey said:

In message <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Bill Grey said:

> I was between SN 82638 20035 to SN 82686 20113 acording to my track.

The Grid reference was supplied by me!

Paul - you have mail :-)

Thanks Bill, so the correct GR is SN 82655 20048.

Paul

Well as correct as my GPS 12 is :-)

Also as accurate as mine. Bill's falls between my two points.
--
Phil Cook, last hill: Angletarn Pikes via Beda Fell.

Dave Fawthrop said:

On Tue, 22 May 2007 19:35:59 +0100, Roger <[email hidden]>
wrote:

|!The message <[email hidden]>
|!from Dominic Sexton <[email hidden]> contains these words:
|!

Quoted message said:

|! The man navigates by gps so why doesn't he quote the
|!10 figure reference?

Because a 10 figure reference should be accurate to *1 m*, and you should
never quote a measurement to a greater accuracy than reality allows.

Any crash site will be more than *10 m* across, 8 figure ref, and maybe
more than *100 m* across 6 figure ref.

Remember to allow for the inaccuracy of the gps as well.

I considered that when I gave the GR for the Vampire. For some reason
I added the fifth and tenth figure to the eight figure reference I
originally typed. :-\
--
Phil Cook, last hill: Angletarn Pikes via Beda Fell.

In message <[email hidden]>, Roger
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

The message <[email hidden]>
from "Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/phil_spix/Oct03/exp.htm

Quoted message said:

Do you have a grid ref for the Vampire, Phil? I plan to visit that again
very soon.

I went looking for it some years ago in mist on a tour of all the wreck
sites on the Black Mountain other than the well known Wellington which
is a bit distant from the others. Didn't find it on that occasion armed
only with a grid ref and a gps. Visited it earlier this year approaching
from the Bwlch above in the clear and no problem finding it without a
grid ref. It is in the headwaters of the Haffes. On my previous attempt
I had been searching the Giedd. (I see in another message that the
reported GR was way out).

My visit to the Vampire was from Tafarn-y-Garreg, along Fan Hir as far
as Bwlch Giedd then dropped down to the head waters of the Haffes. The
wreckage was visible from at least 100 yards more like 200yads.

Quoted message said:

We later found the site of the Beaufighter wreck which is a much more
difficult proposition. Contouring round the side of Fan Hir makes a
change from endless traverses of the summit ridge.:-)

This wreck doesn't appear in the booklet from the Mountain centre, but
features in another out of print book which I have seen but do have a
copy.

Quoted message said:

Incidentally I have my doubts about the reported position of the
American plane wreck on the summit of Moel Fiety. The grid reference is
right on the summit, there is no wreckage there and planes do not
usually crash right on a summit.

I have been told there is some. very little, wreckage on the eastern
side of Moel Feity. I have only ever found a small piece of aluminium
measuring about 6 " x 2 " which is show on my web site:

http://graigroad.demon.co.uk.

Pictures of other bits and pieces are also shown

--
Bill Grey