Alloy wheel question



K

Ken

Guest
I was at the local bike shop today, spending some money on some new city
slick skins, and I asked the one helpful guy that works there about a new
wheel to replace the hoppy one that is on the back of an mtb, and he showed
me one for like 35, and said it was alloy and would be a big step up in
strength. Now I have read that alloys are lighter, but stronger? Is this
true? what other benefits are there between alloy and steel rims?

Ken

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Ken wrote:
> I was at the local bike shop today, spending some money on some new city
> slick skins, and I asked the one helpful guy that works there about a new
> wheel to replace the hoppy one that is on the back of an mtb, and he showed
> me one for like 35, and said it was alloy and would be a big step up in
> strength. Now I have read that alloys are lighter, but stronger? Is this
> true? what other benefits are there between alloy and steel rims?
>

It's been a long time, but I remember steel rims as being pretty
fragile. They also don't brake well when wet.
 
"Ken" wrote: (clip) what other benefits are there between alloy and steel
rims?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
1.) Steel is heavier.
2.) Rim brakes on steel don't work well when wet.
3.) Steel is used only on low end bikes, so the quality is likely to be
poorer.
4.) Steel will label you as a "low end" biker to people who stop to chat,
so may lead to endless discussions about who is a bigger snob, who is being
unfriendly or overly sensitive or overreacting. <G>

I met a rider on the trails recently who was riding on steel wheels--in
spite of this, he exhibited every characteristic of a strong, accomplished
properly equipped rider. He was on an old bike in pristine condition, and
was proud of what he was riding. He was concerned that one of his wheels
was slightly bent, and he was having trouble finding a proper STEEL
replacement. He told the people in his riding group that if he followed
their urging, and changed to aluminum wheels, he would have to move up to a
faster group, so they would no longer be able to ride together. I LIKED
him, wheels and all.
 
Ken wrote:

> I was at the local bike shop today, spending some money on some new city
> slick skins, and I asked the one helpful guy that works there about a new
> wheel to replace the hoppy one that is on the back of an mtb, and he showed
> me one for like 35, and said it was alloy and would be a big step up in
> strength. Now I have read that alloys are lighter, but stronger? Is this
> true?

It's true for *most* alloy rims, because an extruded box-section is
stronger than a pressed steel rim. Steel can't be extruded.
 
Ken wrote:

> I was at the local bike shop today, spending some money on some new city
> slick skins, and I asked the one helpful guy that works there about a new
> wheel to replace the hoppy one that is on the back of an mtb, and he
> showed me one for like 35, and said it was alloy and would be a big step
> up in strength. Now I have read that alloys are lighter, but stronger? Is
> this true? what other benefits are there between alloy and steel rims?

(Aluminum) alloy rims work well with rim brakes, even in the rain.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Although the moon is smaller than the earth, it is farther away.
 
Ken wrote:
> I was at the local bike shop today, spending some money on some new
city
> slick skins, and I asked the one helpful guy that works there about a
new
> wheel to replace the hoppy one that is on the back of an mtb, and he
showed
> me one for like 35, and said it was alloy and would be a big step up
in
> strength. Now I have read that alloys are lighter, but stronger? Is
this
> true? what other benefits are there between alloy and steel rims?
>
> Ken

Steel rims are generally thinner and thus easier to dent. Back when
similar bikes were available with both (i.e. Schwinn Le Tour had steel
rims, Schwinn Super Le Tour had aluminum rims), I saw more dented steel
rims than aluminum. Of course, we sold more Le Tours than Super Le
Tours, too.

Rim material is almost irrelevant to wheel strength. How well the wheel
is built, tensioned, and stress-relieved has much more to do the
wheel's durability than any of the materials. At 35 (what? dollars?
marks? shillings?) the wheel is almost certainly machine-built and
trued. It will probably not be properly tensioned and won't be a
durable as the same wheel after it has been tensioned by a good human
wheelbuilder.

Jeff
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Peter Cole <[email protected]> writes:
> Ken wrote:
>> I was at the local bike shop today, spending some money on some new city
>> slick skins, and I asked the one helpful guy that works there about a new
>> wheel to replace the hoppy one that is on the back of an mtb, and he showed
>> me one for like 35, and said it was alloy and would be a big step up in
>> strength. Now I have read that alloys are lighter, but stronger? Is this
>> true? what other benefits are there between alloy and steel rims?
>>
>
> It's been a long time, but I remember steel rims as being pretty
> fragile.

Maybe the fragility you remember is that of the chrome plating?
On most of the old steel rims I've seen in recent years, the
plating was worn off in spots, with associated rust in the steel
underneath. I've also seen lots of blisters in the plating.


cheers,
Tom

--
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Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
 
Tom Keats wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Peter Cole <[email protected]> writes:
>
>>Ken wrote:
>>
>>>I was at the local bike shop today, spending some money on some new city
>>>slick skins, and I asked the one helpful guy that works there about a new
>>>wheel to replace the hoppy one that is on the back of an mtb, and he showed
>>>me one for like 35, and said it was alloy and would be a big step up in
>>>strength. Now I have read that alloys are lighter, but stronger? Is this
>>>true? what other benefits are there between alloy and steel rims?
>>>
>>
>>It's been a long time, but I remember steel rims as being pretty
>>fragile.
>
>
> Maybe the fragility you remember is that of the chrome plating?
> On most of the old steel rims I've seen in recent years, the
> plating was worn off in spots, with associated rust in the steel
> underneath. I've also seen lots of blisters in the plating.

No, I kept denting steel rims (rear) on my bike boom (Raleigh Grand
Prix) bike until I got set up with an alloy rim, no more dents! It was a
beginning...
 
Ken Marcet wrote:

> I was at the local bike shop today, spending some money on some new city
> slick skins, and I asked the one helpful guy that works there about a new
> wheel to replace the hoppy one that is on the back of an mtb, and he showed
> me one for like 35, and said it was alloy and would be a big step up in
> strength. Now I have read that alloys are lighter, but stronger? Is this
> true?

Yes. "Alloy" (in the bike biz, that's usually a colloquial synonym for
"aluminum") rims are made by extrusion, while steel rims are folded out
of flat stock.

This makes "alloy" rims considerably stronger in terms of resisting
dents that might change their cross section.

Any superior material may be used to make parts either lighter or
stronger, depending on how much of it you use.

"Alloy" rims have a greater volume of metal, to make up for the fact
that steel is a stronger material.

However, aluminum only weighs about 1/3 the amount of the same volume of
steel, so aluminum rims wind up being lighter than steel.

> what other benefits are there between alloy and steel rims?

They don't rust, and the brakes work substantially better, especially
when conditions get wet.

Sheldon "Nobody Should Have To Ride On Steel Rims" Brown
+----------------------------------------------------+
| A little inaccuracy sometimes saves tons of |
| explanation. --H.H.Munro ("Saki")(1870-1916) |
+----------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
 
"Leo Lichtman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Ken" wrote: (clip) what other benefits are there between alloy and steel
> rims?
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 1.) Steel is heavier.
> 2.) Rim brakes on steel don't work well when wet.
> 3.) Steel is used only on low end bikes, so the quality is likely to be
> poorer.
> 4.) Steel will label you as a "low end" biker to people who stop to chat,
> so may lead to endless discussions about who is a bigger snob, who is
being
> unfriendly or overly sensitive or overreacting. <G>
>
> I met a rider on the trails recently who was riding on steel wheels--in
> spite of this, he exhibited every characteristic of a strong, accomplished
> properly equipped rider. He was on an old bike in pristine condition, and
> was proud of what he was riding. He was concerned that one of his wheels
> was slightly bent, and he was having trouble finding a proper STEEL
> replacement. He told the people in his riding group that if he followed
> their urging, and changed to aluminum wheels, he would have to move up to
a
> faster group, so they would no longer be able to ride together. I LIKED
> him, wheels and all.
>
>
Interesting, I know I am not the most seasoned ride, and my bike is not the
newest or the shiniest. But I don't really care. I don't ride to impress
others. But on the other hand if alloy is *stronger* I would consider this
to be the biggest selling point for me. I don't really care too much about
weight, and braking performance is not an issue either. About being a *low
end* biker. maybe it would keep the thieves from ripping the bike off.

Ken
 
On Thu, 19 May 2005 07:55:21 -0400, "Ken" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"Leo Lichtman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Ken" wrote: (clip) what other benefits are there between alloy and steel
>> rims?
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> 1.) Steel is heavier.
>> 2.) Rim brakes on steel don't work well when wet.
>> 3.) Steel is used only on low end bikes, so the quality is likely to be
>> poorer.
>> 4.) Steel will label you as a "low end" biker to people who stop to chat,
>> so may lead to endless discussions about who is a bigger snob, who is
>being
>> unfriendly or overly sensitive or overreacting. <G>
>>
>> I met a rider on the trails recently who was riding on steel wheels--in
>> spite of this, he exhibited every characteristic of a strong, accomplished
>> properly equipped rider. He was on an old bike in pristine condition, and
>> was proud of what he was riding. He was concerned that one of his wheels
>> was slightly bent, and he was having trouble finding a proper STEEL
>> replacement. He told the people in his riding group that if he followed
>> their urging, and changed to aluminum wheels, he would have to move up to
>a
>> faster group, so they would no longer be able to ride together. I LIKED
>> him, wheels and all.
>>
>>
>Interesting, I know I am not the most seasoned ride, and my bike is not the
>newest or the shiniest. But I don't really care. I don't ride to impress
>others. But on the other hand if alloy is *stronger* I would consider this
>to be the biggest selling point for me. I don't really care too much about
>weight, and braking performance is not an issue either. About being a *low
>end* biker. maybe it would keep the thieves from ripping the bike off.

I don't know if an alloy rim will be stronger than the steel thing you've got. I
do know that it will be plenty strong and otherwise better in every way. I also
know that you'll have far more trouble finding a suitable steel rim. Go ahead
with the aluminum and then replace the other to match when you find out how much
better they are.

Ron
 
Leo Lichtman wrote:

> I met a rider on the trails recently who was riding on steel wheels--in
> spite of this, he exhibited every characteristic of a strong, accomplished
> properly equipped rider. He was on an old bike in pristine condition, and
> was proud of what he was riding. He was concerned that one of his wheels
> was slightly bent, and he was having trouble finding a proper STEEL
> replacement. He told the people in his riding group that if he followed
> their urging, and changed to aluminum wheels, he would have to move up to a
> faster group, so they would no longer be able to ride together. I LIKED
> him, wheels and all.

He may have been a nice guy, but he doesn't seem to know anything about
bikes.
 
"RonSonic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 19 May 2005 07:55:21 -0400, "Ken"
<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Leo Lichtman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >> "Ken" wrote: (clip) what other benefits are there between alloy and
steel
> >> rims?
> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >> 1.) Steel is heavier.
> >> 2.) Rim brakes on steel don't work well when wet.
> >> 3.) Steel is used only on low end bikes, so the quality is likely to
be
> >> poorer.
> >> 4.) Steel will label you as a "low end" biker to people who stop to
chat,
> >> so may lead to endless discussions about who is a bigger snob, who is
> >being
> >> unfriendly or overly sensitive or overreacting. <G>
> >>
> >> I met a rider on the trails recently who was riding on steel wheels--in
> >> spite of this, he exhibited every characteristic of a strong,
accomplished
> >> properly equipped rider. He was on an old bike in pristine condition,
and
> >> was proud of what he was riding. He was concerned that one of his
wheels
> >> was slightly bent, and he was having trouble finding a proper STEEL
> >> replacement. He told the people in his riding group that if he
followed
> >> their urging, and changed to aluminum wheels, he would have to move up
to
> >a
> >> faster group, so they would no longer be able to ride together. I
LIKED
> >> him, wheels and all.
> >>
> >>
> >Interesting, I know I am not the most seasoned ride, and my bike is not
the
> >newest or the shiniest. But I don't really care. I don't ride to impress
> >others. But on the other hand if alloy is *stronger* I would consider
this
> >to be the biggest selling point for me. I don't really care too much
about
> >weight, and braking performance is not an issue either. About being a
*low
> >end* biker. maybe it would keep the thieves from ripping the bike off.
>
> I don't know if an alloy rim will be stronger than the steel thing you've
got. I
> do know that it will be plenty strong and otherwise better in every way. I
also
> know that you'll have far more trouble finding a suitable steel rim. Go
ahead
> with the aluminum and then replace the other to match when you find out
how much
> better they are.
>
> Ron
>

Well you seem to give pretty good advise whenever I have a question. So I
took your advise. But I ordered stuff from bikepartsusa.com. Here is what I
ordered.
http://www.bikepartsusa.com/product_info.phtml?p=01-141516
http://www.bikepartsusa.com/product_info.phtml?p=01-137875

Okay I am not supporting the lbs by buying online, but I gave them money
yesterday! And bikepartsusa works out to around the same price as the lbs
and I get to keep the tool!

Ken
 
On Thu, 19 May 2005 07:55:21 -0400, "Ken"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>


>
>, and braking performance is not an issue either. About being a *low
>end* biker. maybe it would keep the thieves from ripping the bike off.
>
>Ken

Braking performance should be a concern. Steel wheels are terrible for
stopping, when they are wet.

Often, people will steal anything that isn't locked up. With a beater,
they won't bother to defeat the locks. With a nice bike, if they are
prepared, then all bets are off.


Life is Good!
Jeff
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
>
>I was at the local bike shop today, spending some money on some new city
>slick skins, and I asked the one helpful guy that works there about a new
>wheel to replace the hoppy one that is on the back of an mtb, and he showed
>me one for like 35, and said it was alloy and would be a big step up in
>strength. Now I have read that alloys are lighter, but stronger? Is this
>true? what other benefits are there between alloy and steel rims?

A well built aluminum rimmed wheel can be stronger than a poorly built
steel rimmed wheel.
-----------
Alex
 
Ken wrote:
>
> Here is what I ordered.
> http://www.bikepartsusa.com/product_info.phtml?p=01-141516
> http://www.bikepartsusa.com/product_info.phtml?p=01-137875

It would be a good idea for you to have the LBS go over your new
wheels, or at the very least, do as described here:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#seating

The wheels you bought are machine-built. They are exceptionally good
value for the money, if you take the time to "condition" them a bit
before you put many miles on them. Many machine-built wheels have
chronic spoke breakage problems, though, if their spokes are not
adequately seated and stress-relieved.

Chalo Colina
 
On Wed, 18 May 2005 16:48:09 -0400, Sheldon Brown
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Sheldon "Nobody Should Have To Ride On Steel Rims" Brown

Good chromed steel rims work well enough when you ain't got no brakes on
there.

Jasper
 
"Jasper Janssen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 18 May 2005 16:48:09 -0400, Sheldon Brown
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Sheldon "Nobody Should Have To Ride On Steel Rims" Brown
>
> Good chromed steel rims work well enough when you ain't got no brakes on
> there.
>
> Jasper

I don't know about braking, but it seems every time I get to look at a bike
with steels the rims are bent!

Ken
 
I nicked:

"Nobody Should Have To Ride On Steel Rims"
>
Jasper Janssen wrote:
>
> Good chromed steel rims work well enough when you ain't got no brakes on
> there.

Yes, but _good_ chromed steel rims, like _good_ cottered cranks, have
not been made for nigh on to forty years!

Back in the day, there was considerable skepticism about the reliability
of alumin(i)um parts, especially in Britain, where steel had (has?) a
particular mystique dating from its central place in the Industrial
Revolution...viz, "Raleigh, the All Steel Bicycle."

However, by the late '60s, even the Brits acknowledged that steel was
not optimal for rims nor cranks, and thenceforward, steel was only used
as a cost-saving material for making cheap parts. The standard of
quality of the available steel parts went down accordingly.

Steel rims were made subsequently, but none with quality even remotely
up to the standard previously set by Dunlop.

Steel cottered cranks were made subsequently, but nothing like
Magistroni, or Chater Lea, or even Williams.

The same is true of brake calipers, handlebars, stems, seatpost, hub
shells...

Sheldon "Steel's Not Ideal" Brown
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must |
| want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. |
| To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting |
| themselves made President should on no account be |
| allowed to do the job. |
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| people are a problem. -- Douglas Adams |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
 
Sheldon Brown wrote:
> Yes. "Alloy" (in the bike biz, that's usually a colloquial synonym for
> "aluminum") rims are made by extrusion, while steel rims are folded out
> of flat stock.

This is a peeve of mine too. Steel is an alloy so assuming there are
no iron parts on a bicycle everything on bikes is alloy. I notice
in old bike magazines aluminum parts were called "dural" which I assume
is short for duralumin.

> Sheldon "Nobody Should Have To Ride On Steel Rims" Brown

I choose to ride a steel front wheel for a while. You see one of my
daily commutes was hilly with stop signs at the bottom of each hill.
My aluminum rims were wearing out at an alarming rate so I
unsucessfully
looked for a cheap hub brake. When I came across a steel wheel with a
good rim but destroyed hub it occured that the steel rim should hold up
to braking a lot longer than aluminum so I built the rim into a front
wheel for my commute. No rim wear and I never had trouble stopping
it even in the rain. No doubt my Dura Ace EX brakes were a lot
better than the cheap stamped steel calipers on most steel wheeled 10
speeds.

In general I agree that people shouldn't have to ride steel rims.
btw, my daughter's bike has steel rims and I'd love to upgrade them
to aluminum. Anyone got a source for aluminum 12 1/2" rims?
 
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