Alpe question

Bro Deal said:

Since no one is talking about anything...

Why did Evans wait until 3K to go before actively chasing Sastre? Was his DS asleep at the wheel and did not realize what was going on? Did his radio fail? Was he already near his limit and afraid that if he pushed the pace, someone might attack and he would be gapped?

Related question is why Vande Velde did not do [censored] either? He lost his chance at the podium. A steady pace would have prevented Menchov from rejoining. The same question can be asked about Kohl.

Sastre was off the front and the other non-CSC contenders were at times letting the Schlecks set a false tempo. WTF?

IMHO... He was leaving the option open that one of the guys in podium calculations... ie Valverde, VdV, Menchov, would lead the charge so he could wheelsuck as much as possible... then blast the last 3km. When he realised that Valverde had given up on any yellow jersey aspirations and was possibly riding for his Spanish friend... and VdV wasn't doing much... he went at it. If he had have led the charge early... then he would have given up the chance that he could possibly get a draft for a few km before the last 3km. He probably would have been better off pushing earlier... but that's a hindsight decision... knowing that the others were not going to do it. He also probably had a time gap in mind re. Sastre that he was willingly to allow.

Just my take on Evans' behavior. Can't speak for the others. Menchov had just clawed himself back... and was probably loathe to drag Evans. Valverde is riding for CSC. VdV probably didn't have the gas, neither did Kohl.

Personally... I think Evans is perhaps a little too focused on drafting on climbs. I'm not one really to question his tactics though... but he is best suited to an even tempo... and drafting at 12mph isn't as much of an advantage as it is at 25mph. It wasn't like Sastre was getting a drafting advantage. I think his lack of team support in previous GT's has made him a habitual rear wheel scouting opportunist... maybe to his detriment. But again... I realise my lack of palmares to be questioning his tactics.

I am tending toward the DS being about as much help as the other riders on the team.

I also think that Evans has that stage 17 of the 2002 Giro still in the back of his mind... when he bonked while wearing the Maglia Rosa and lost 17 minutes. I think he still has a fear of bonking and losing control. Just speculation though.

And his DS isn't much use I think... but I am sure that they had the margins of time for each opponent worked out beforehand... so as long as the DS was feeding him Sastre's lead... Evans should have been able to work it out himself.

He's soft. Should have taken it by the horns and taken a risk.

I think he was afraid that when he started to work too early, the others (e.g. Menchov, Frank, Kohl or possibly Vdv) might sprint away from him in the last 1-2 or 3 km and gain ~30s to 1 min on him as well.

IMHO, he handled it well enough. Presumably 1:30 min on Sastre (a 2 min gap on top of the Alpe) is a sufficiently small margin, and he didn't lose significant time on any of the others that day.

Maybe he could have worked for a smaller gap on Sastre, but possibly he'd then be even with Menchov, or he might have to chase Frank and Kohl as well tomorrow. I think he's in a good position right now.

Bro Deal said:

Since no one is talking about anything...

Why did Evans wait until 3K to go before actively chasing Sastre? Was his DS asleep at the wheel and did not realize what was going on? Did his radio fail? Was he already near his limit and afraid that if he pushed the pace, someone might attack and he would be gapped?

Related question is why Vande Velde did not do [censored] either? He lost his chance at the podium. A steady pace would have prevented Menchov from rejoining. The same question can be asked about Kohl.

Sastre was off the front and the other non-CSC contenders were at times letting the Schlecks set a false tempo. WTF?

I suppose he didn't want to leave himself open to a counterattack and have nothing left. I'm sure he didn't want to put it all on the line with Schleck just sitting there waiting. I think he was trying to measure his effort on the climb against how much he could take back in the TT.
I was disappointed in Vandevelde actually. He's really just followed wheels for the entire Tour. A couple of turns might have helped everyone out. I think Kohl was completely spent and riding on memory. Props to Menchov though. He still tried to roll to the front when he got back on even though he must have been pretty much gone as well.

Crankyfeet said:

IMHO... He was leaving the option open that one of the guys in podium calculations... ie Valverde, VdV, Menchov, would lead the charge so he could wheelsuck as much as possible... then blast the last 3km. When he realised that Valverde had given up on any yellow jersey aspirations and was possibly riding for his Spanish friend... and VdV wasn't doing much... he went at it. If he had have led the charge early... then he would have given up the chance that he could possibly get a draft for a few km before the last 3km. He probably would have been better off pushing earlier... but that's a hindsight decision... knowing that the others were not going to do it. He also probably had a time gap in mind re. Sastre that he was willingly to allow.

Just my take on Evans' behavior. Can't speak for the others. Menchov had just clawed himself back... and was probably loathe to drag Evans. Valverde is riding for CSC. VdV probably didn't have the gas, neither did Kohl.

Personally... I think Evans is perhaps a little too focused on drafting on climbs. I'm not one really to question his tactics though... but he is best suited to an even tempo... and drafting at 12mph isn't as much of an advantage as it is at 25mph. It wasn't like Sastre was getting a drafting advantage. I think his lack of team support in previous GT's has made him a habitual rear wheel scouting opportunist... maybe to his detriment. But again... I realise my lack of palmares to be questioning his tactics.

A lot of people here seem to think that a guy like Evans should be attacking at every opportunity but it just isn't that simple. You can only attack when you feel up to it and you should only attack if you think you can make it stick. Anyone who has ridden one out against a strong team or combine will attest to the diffilculties in prevailing in that sort of situation. I think he measured his effort on what he could gain back in the time trial. A couple of turns from the guys bringing up the rear certainly would have helped but they were either unable or unwilling. Chasing Carlos Sastre from the bottom of that climb with the Schlecks and the rest following would have been suicide. I think he did the best he could in the situation.

heinkel12 said:

I suppose he didn't want to leave himself open to a counterattack and have nothing left. I'm sure he didn't want to put it all on the line with Schleck just sitting there waiting. I think he was trying to measure his effort on the climb against how much he could take back in the TT.
I was disappointed in Vandevelde actually. He's really just followed wheels for the entire Tour. A couple of turns might have helped everyone out. I think Kohl was completely spent and riding on memory. Props to Menchov though. He still tried to roll to the front when he got back on even though he must have been pretty much gone as well.

Exactly.

And by my reckoning it was 4km to go, not 3km.

Because his style is to ride on the wheel, I just think he had the clock in mind, he drove at the front only when the time went over 2 mins, anything less than this he thought he could easily pull that back in the time trial