alternative to squats

"Johan Larson" <johan0larson8comcast0net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi, folks.

For complicated reasons, I find myself without access to a gym, a rack, or
even a proper bench. That's not a problem for many of the exercies I want
to do; I find I can do a lot with a pair of dumbells and a chinup bar.

The one area I _do_ find I have trouble working is my legs. I would like to
do real squats, but without a rack I just can't get enough weight over my
head and onto my shoulders. The best alternative I've come up with are
forward barbell lunges, which require a lot less weight. Is there a better
alternative?

Johan Larson

Deadlifts.

Art

"Johan Larson" <johan0larson8comcast0net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi, folks.

For complicated reasons, I find myself without access to a gym, a rack, or
even a proper bench. That's not a problem for many of the exercies I want
to do; I find I can do a lot with a pair of dumbells and a chinup bar.

The one area I _do_ find I have trouble working is my legs. I would like

to

Quoted message said:

do real squats, but without a rack I just can't get enough weight over my
head and onto my shoulders. The best alternative I've come up with are
forward barbell lunges, which require a lot less weight. Is there a better
alternative?

One-legged squats. BW or with dumbbells. Quite challenging....

John said:

Johan Larson' johan0larson8comcast0net said:

For complicated reasons, I find myself without access to a gym, a
rack, or even a proper bench.
The one area I _do_ find I have trouble working is my legs. I would
like to
do real squats, but without a rack I just can't get enough weight
over my head and onto my shoulders. Is
there a better alternative?

One-legged squats. BW or with dumbbells. Quite challenging....

Hmm. With the unstressed leg completely off the ground, or just with as
little weight on it as possible?

Johan Larson

Art S said:

Johan Larson' johan0larson8comcast0net said:

For complicated reasons, I find myself without access to a gym, a
rack, or even a proper bench.

The one area I _do_ find I have trouble working is my legs. I would
like to do real squats, but without a rack I just can't get enough
weight over my head and onto my shoulders. The best alternative I've
come up with are forward barbell lunges, which require a lot less
weight. Is there a better alternative?

Deadlifts.

How much weight would I need for those? Do I need more than I would use for
squats, or less?

Johan Larson

"Johan Larson" <johan0larson8comcast0net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John said:

Johan Larson' johan0larson8comcast0net said:

For complicated reasons, I find myself without access to a gym, a
rack, or even a proper bench.
The one area I _do_ find I have trouble working is my legs. I would
like to
do real squats, but without a rack I just can't get enough weight
over my head and onto my shoulders. Is
there a better alternative?

One-legged squats. BW or with dumbbells. Quite challenging....

Hmm. With the unstressed leg completely off the ground, or just with as
little weight on it as possible?

Off the ground and extended in front of you. Start with body weight and
extend your arms for balance. Down, then up. With only one leg. Once you get
your balance and can do ~10 reps, grab some DB's.

"Johan Larson" <johan0larson8comcast0net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Art S said:

Johan Larson' johan0larson8comcast0net said:

For complicated reasons, I find myself without access to a gym, a
rack, or even a proper bench.

The one area I _do_ find I have trouble working is my legs. I would
like to do real squats, but without a rack I just can't get enough
weight over my head and onto my shoulders. The best alternative I've
come up with are forward barbell lunges, which require a lot less
weight. Is there a better alternative?

Deadlifts.

How much weight would I need for those? Do I need more than I would use for
squats, or less?

Johan Larson

Start light and make sure that you are using good form (back straight,
etc.) as you increase the weight. Some people can squat more, some
can deadlift more.

Art

Art S said:

"Johan Larson" <johan0larson8comcast0net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How much weight would I need for those [deadlifts]?
Do I need more than I would use for squats, or less?

Start light and make sure that you are using good form (back straight,
etc.) as you increase the weight. Some people can squat more, some
can deadlift more.

So we are talking about two-hundred-some pounds landing on my floor.
Usually softly, but occasionally hard. Oh, if only I had the courage to be
truly evil, and had a downstairs neighbor....

:-)

Thanks for the advice,
Johan

"Johan Larson" <johan0larson8comcast0net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Art S said:

"Johan Larson" <johan0larson8comcast0net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How much weight would I need for those [deadlifts]?
Do I need more than I would use for squats, or less?

Start light and make sure that you are using good form (back straight,
etc.) as you increase the weight. Some people can squat more, some
can deadlift more.

So we are talking about two-hundred-some pounds landing on my floor.
Usually softly, but occasionally hard. Oh, if only I had the courage to be
truly evil, and had a downstairs neighbor....

:-)

Thanks for the advice,
Johan

Exercise mat. Or horse-stall mat. Or not.

Art

I'm sure I'll get crucified for this, but I would have thought that the one
legged squats provide a better alternative to the deadlift.

I find the barbell deadlift, whichever variation, quite hard to get spot on
formwise - which I realise is my own fault - and that, for me, you really
need a trap/shrug bar to get it spot on, which will cost more, and take up
more room, than a cheapo pair of squat stands. So if they are out, I'd give
the one-legs a try; but, as most people know, I myself am a novice, and know
next to nothing.

The Crow said:

I find the barbell deadlift, whichever variation, quite hard to get
spot on formwise - which I realise is my own fault - and that, for me,
you really need a trap/shrug bar to get it spot on, which will cost
more, and take up more room, than a cheapo pair of squat stands.

What's the problem? Do you have a physique that makes it difficult to get
the bar to clear your knees without skinning them?

Johan Larson

"Johan Larson" <johan0larson8comcast0net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The Crow said:

I find the barbell deadlift, whichever variation, quite hard to get
spot on formwise - which I realise is my own fault - and that, for me,
you really need a trap/shrug bar to get it spot on, which will cost
more, and take up more room, than a cheapo pair of squat stands.

What's the problem? Do you have a physique that makes it difficult to get
the bar to clear your knees without skinning them?

That's the fun part of DL's.

"Johan Larson" <johan0larson8comcast0net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi, folks.

For complicated reasons, I find myself without access to a gym, a
rack, or
even a proper bench. That's not a problem for many of the exercies I
want
to do; I find I can do a lot with a pair of dumbells and a chinup bar.

The one area I _do_ find I have trouble working is my legs. I would
like to
do real squats, but without a rack I just can't get enough weight over
my
head and onto my shoulders. The best alternative I've come up with are
forward barbell lunges, which require a lot less weight. Is there a
better
alternative?

Besides the already mentioned deadlifts and one-legged squats, you've
got several other good choices.

A one-legged deadlift is pretty challenging, can be done with dumbbells,
and requires less than half the weight of a regular DL or SQ. To
duplicate the range of motion of a normal deadlift, either stand the
dumbbells on end or raise them a bit, or just enjoy the larger range of
motion.

Front squat is OK without a rack because you can just dump the weight
forward - stack up some cider blocks or similar if you have trouble
getting the weight to the starting position.

Behind-the-back deadlifts may have more carryover to barbell back squats
than regular deadlifts - not sure about that - and the weight used is
usually lighter and you don't generally drop them, so they might be near
perfect for your situation.

If your knees are up to it, the real hack squat, where you hold a
dumbbell or kettlebell behind your back and squat on your toes - that's
one tough movement. If you Google

kettlebell hack squat

you'll find some reading - most people seem to be able to do only 15-20%
of the weight they can back squat. This one can be hard on your knees
but most people should be able to work up to doing it. The DragonDoor
link that comes up a few down the list has some pictures and pretty
detailed instructions. (As I understand it, the "real" hack lift
involves coming up on your toes, while staying flat-footed is a
behind-the-back DL and not a hack squat.)

Hope that helps you some.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

In article <[email hidden]>,

Art S said:

"Johan Larson" <johan0larson8comcast0net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi, folks.

For complicated reasons, I find myself without access to a gym, a rack, or
even a proper bench. That's not a problem for many of the exercies I want
to do; I find I can do a lot with a pair of dumbells and a chinup bar.

The one area I _do_ find I have trouble working is my legs. I would like to
do real squats, but without a rack I just can't get enough weight over my
head and onto my shoulders. The best alternative I've come up with are
forward barbell lunges, which require a lot less weight. Is there a better
alternative?

Johan Larson

Deadlifts.

Art

Indeed... but it does not work the quads very well IMHO.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

Steve Freides said:

"Johan Larson" <johan0larson8comcast0net> wrote

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I would like to do real squats, but without a rack I just
can't get enough weight over my head and onto my
shoulders. The best alternative I've come up with are
forward barbell lunges, which require a lot less weight.
Is there a better alternative?

Besides the already mentioned deadlifts and one-legged
squats, you've got several other good choices.

A one-legged deadlift is pretty challenging, can be done with dumbbells,
and requires less than half the weight of a regular DL or SQ. To
duplicate the range of motion of a normal deadlift, either stand the
dumbbells on end or raise them a bit, or just enjoy the larger range of
motion.

Front squat is OK without a rack because you can just dump the weight
forward - stack up some cider blocks or similar if you have trouble
getting the weight to the starting position.

Behind-the-back deadlifts may have more carryover to barbell back squats
than regular deadlifts - not sure about that - and the weight used is
usually lighter and you don't generally drop them, so they might be near
perfect for your situation.

If your knees are up to it, the real hack squat, where you hold a
dumbbell or kettlebell behind your back and squat on your toes - that's
one tough movement. If you Google kettlebell hack squat

you'll find some reading - most people seem to be able to do only 15-20%
of the weight they can back squat. This one can be hard on your knees
but most people should be able to work up to doing it. The DragonDoor
link that comes up a few down the list has some pictures and pretty
detailed instructions. (As I understand it, the "real" hack lift
involves coming up on your toes, while staying flat-footed is a
behind-the-back DL and not a hack squat.)

Hope that helps you some.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

"Straddle Lift (Jefferson Lift) - A squatting movement. Straddle the
bar, squat down, grab it with one hand in front of the body and one
hand behind...keep back very straight (this is critical)...and do a
squatting exercise."

See also: http://danjohn.org/cj.pdf

--
Curt
http://curtjames.com/

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Art S said:

"Johan Larson" <johan0larson8comcast0net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi, folks.

For complicated reasons, I find myself without access to a gym, a rack, or
even a proper bench. That's not a problem for many of the exercies I want
to do; I find I can do a lot with a pair of dumbells and a chinup bar.

The one area I _do_ find I have trouble working is my legs. I would like to
do real squats, but without a rack I just can't get enough weight over my
head and onto my shoulders. The best alternative I've come up with are
forward barbell lunges, which require a lot less weight. Is there a better
alternative?

Johan Larson

Deadlifts.

Art

Indeed... but it does not work the quads very well IMHO.

Nothing humble about that opinion Om, the quads in this very popular
exercise are synergists, but it's not a good "alternative to squats"!

Have a great weekend mate - I usually do! ;o)

TFIF!

In article <[email hidden]>,

JRH said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Art S said:

"Johan Larson" <johan0larson8comcast0net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Hi, folks.
>
> For complicated reasons, I find myself without access to a gym, a rack,
> or
> even a proper bench. That's not a problem for many of the exercies I
> want
> to do; I find I can do a lot with a pair of dumbells and a chinup bar.
>
> The one area I _do_ find I have trouble working is my legs. I would like
> to
> do real squats, but without a rack I just can't get enough weight over
> my
> head and onto my shoulders. The best alternative I've come up with are
> forward barbell lunges, which require a lot less weight. Is there a
> better
> alternative?
>
> Johan Larson

Deadlifts.

Art

Indeed... but it does not work the quads very well IMHO.

Nothing humble about that opinion Om, the quads in this very popular
exercise are synergists, but it's not a good "alternative to squats"!

Have a great weekend mate - I usually do! ;o)

Quadriceps are knee extensors - the knees extend in deadlifts. Quads are
movers in a full deadlift, albeit through a limited ROM.

--
Keith

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 12:18:17 -0600, Hobbes <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

JRH said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Art S" <[email hidden]> wrote:

> "Johan Larson" <johan0larson8comcast0net> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
> > Hi, folks.
> >
> > For complicated reasons, I find myself without access to a gym, a rack,
> > or
> > even a proper bench. That's not a problem for many of the exercies I
> > want
> > to do; I find I can do a lot with a pair of dumbells and a chinup bar.
> >
> > The one area I _do_ find I have trouble working is my legs. I would like
> > to
> > do real squats, but without a rack I just can't get enough weight over
> > my
> > head and onto my shoulders. The best alternative I've come up with are
> > forward barbell lunges, which require a lot less weight. Is there a
> > better
> > alternative?
> >
> > Johan Larson
>
> Deadlifts.
>
> Art
>
>

Indeed... but it does not work the quads very well IMHO.

Nothing humble about that opinion Om, the quads in this very popular
exercise are synergists, but it's not a good "alternative to squats"!

Have a great weekend mate - I usually do! ;o)

Quadriceps are knee extensors - the knees extend in deadlifts. Quads are
movers in a full deadlift, albeit through a limited ROM.

This is a golden oldie here, and it normally depends on whom we want
to prove wrong. It is normal if someone says deadlifts are a good
quad exercise for people to jump up and down saying things like
"[censored]"!

On the other hand if someone else says that they are not a good quad
exercise, then it is quite usual to go the other way and say that they
are.

Watch my lips Keith: the deadlift is a back exercise primarily, with
the quads acting as only one of a number of synergists. The hamstrings
are a useful stabiliser.

Have a great weekend old friend - I usually do!

TFIF!

In article <[email hidden]>,

JRH said:

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 12:18:17 -0600, Hobbes <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

JRH said:

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 10:10:33 -0600, OmManiPadmeOmelet
<[email hidden]> wrote:

>In article <[email hidden]>,
> "Art S" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>> "Johan Larson" <johan0larson8comcast0net> wrote in message
>> news:[email hidden]...
>> > Hi, folks.
>> >
>> > For complicated reasons, I find myself without access to a gym, a
>> > rack,
>> > or
>> > even a proper bench. That's not a problem for many of the exercies I
>> > want
>> > to do; I find I can do a lot with a pair of dumbells and a chinup
>> > bar.
>> >
>> > The one area I _do_ find I have trouble working is my legs. I would
>> > like
>> > to
>> > do real squats, but without a rack I just can't get enough weight
>> > over
>> > my
>> > head and onto my shoulders. The best alternative I've come up with
>> > are
>> > forward barbell lunges, which require a lot less weight. Is there a
>> > better
>> > alternative?
>> >
>> > Johan Larson
>>
>> Deadlifts.
>>
>> Art
>>
>>
>
>Indeed... but it does not work the quads very well IMHO.

Nothing humble about that opinion Om, the quads in this very popular
exercise are synergists, but it's not a good "alternative to squats"!

Have a great weekend mate - I usually do! ;o)

Quadriceps are knee extensors - the knees extend in deadlifts. Quads are
movers in a full deadlift, albeit through a limited ROM.

This is a golden oldie here, and it normally depends on whom we want
to prove wrong. It is normal if someone says deadlifts are a good
quad exercise for people to jump up and down saying things like
"[censored]"!

On the other hand if someone else says that they are not a good quad
exercise, then it is quite usual to go the other way and say that they
are.

Watch my lips Keith: the deadlift is a back exercise primarily, with
the quads acting as only one of a number of synergists. The hamstrings
are a useful stabiliser.

Have a great weekend old friend - I usually do!

TFIF!

I used to be of the opinion they weren't much good for quads. However,
right now several of the best sprint coaches in the US are having their
athletes use deadlifts for a strengthening exercise rather than
deadlifts. Not because of the back - because of strengthening the quads
(knee extension) and hamstrings (hip extension). Considering some of the
times that are being run I can't argue with them!

I do agree that if you think in bodybuilding terms (max hypertrophy)
there are better exercises, but if you are thinking in terms of strength
development the quads and hamstrings get a major dose.

--
Keith

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 12:38:16 -0600, Hobbes <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

JRH said:

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 12:18:17 -0600, Hobbes <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
JRH <[email hidden]> wrote:

> On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 10:10:33 -0600, OmManiPadmeOmelet
> <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email hidden]>,
> > "Art S" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> >
> >> "Johan Larson" <johan0larson8comcast0net> wrote in message
> >> news:[email hidden]...
> >> > Hi, folks.
> >> >
> >> > For complicated reasons, I find myself without access to a gym, a
> >> > rack,
> >> > or
> >> > even a proper bench. That's not a problem for many of the exercies I
> >> > want
> >> > to do; I find I can do a lot with a pair of dumbells and a chinup
> >> > bar.
> >> >
> >> > The one area I _do_ find I have trouble working is my legs. I would
> >> > like
> >> > to
> >> > do real squats, but without a rack I just can't get enough weight
> >> > over
> >> > my
> >> > head and onto my shoulders. The best alternative I've come up with
> >> > are
> >> > forward barbell lunges, which require a lot less weight. Is there a
> >> > better
> >> > alternative?
> >> >
> >> > Johan Larson
> >>
> >> Deadlifts.
> >>
> >> Art
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Indeed... but it does not work the quads very well IMHO.
>
> Nothing humble about that opinion Om, the quads in this very popular
> exercise are synergists, but it's not a good "alternative to squats"!
>
> Have a great weekend mate - I usually do! ;o)

Quadriceps are knee extensors - the knees extend in deadlifts. Quads are
movers in a full deadlift, albeit through a limited ROM.

This is a golden oldie here, and it normally depends on whom we want
to prove wrong. It is normal if someone says deadlifts are a good
quad exercise for people to jump up and down saying things like
"[censored]"!

On the other hand if someone else says that they are not a good quad
exercise, then it is quite usual to go the other way and say that they
are.

Watch my lips Keith: the deadlift is a back exercise primarily, with
the quads acting as only one of a number of synergists. The hamstrings
are a useful stabiliser.

Have a great weekend old friend - I usually do!

TFIF!

I used to be of the opinion they weren't much good for quads. However,
right now several of the best sprint coaches in the US are having their
athletes use deadlifts for a strengthening exercise rather than
deadlifts.

??
I gather you meant squats.

Quoted message said:

Not because of the back - because of strengthening the quads
(knee extension) and hamstrings (hip extension). Considering some of the
times that are being run I can't argue with them!

I'm surprised that coaches are only just beginning to see the merits.

Quoted message said:

I do agree that if you think in bodybuilding terms (max hypertrophy)
there are better exercises, but if you are thinking in terms of strength
development the quads and hamstrings get a major dose.

I agree, and I have always considered deadlifts to be a superb
exercise for the legs, as well as the back, but it hasn't always been
popularly agreed here.