Amino acid post-training recovery drinks

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by TTer
What's the deal with recovery drinks containing amino acids? The advertisements selling these drinks state they contain up to 3g of amino acids per serving. Is that a lot?

How many amino acids are contained in a 25g (of protein) protein shake? I would have thought a lot more, albeit they are absorbed slower as they are stripped down to basic amino's ?

What's the benefit of such drinks over protein shakes? Is there any?

There is unlikely to be any benefit of one drink over another and the 25g protein drink will contain more as the proteins are made up of amino acids.

Some people would question the benefit of protein supplements in a balanced diet; but thats a different discussion!

or to move the discussion further long... recovery drinks are best with a largish amount of highly glycaemic carbohydrate (1 to 1.5 g per kg body mass) and a small amount of protein (~ 10g)

ric

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by ricstern
or to move the discussion further long... recovery drinks are best with a largish amount of highly glycaemic carbohydrate (1 to 1.5 g per kg body mass) and a small amount of protein (~ 10g)

So a product like Amino Load from AllSports is unlikely to be much use in recovery if it contains 3g amino acids and 44g carbs per serving? I'm better off with more protein or even normal food?

unless you weigh 44 kg (which i'm doubting!) you'll either be needing around 2-4 servings of Amino Load (depending on your mass and severity of exercise) or consuming more carbs and or proper food

Ric

25g protein before, 25g during, and 25g after your workout will improve your recovery greatly.

Some thing that a sports nutritionist and former pro cyclist told me to do is take a heaping tspn of L-Glutamine with 5g of Branch Chain Amino Acids. With this combination I have noticed that I last longer and ride harder on the hard rides and have noticed a considerably less fatigue after the ride with less soreness. I'm going to need to talk to him again to get the full understanding the science.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Chemicalanarchy
25g protein before, 25g during, and 25g after your workout will improve your recovery greatly.

and your research evidence would be...?

there is unequivocal evidence showing that recovery and performance is much greater with carbohydrates in the amounts stated previously.

ric

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by firegooroo
Some thing that a sports nutritionist and former pro cyclist told me to do is take a heaping tspn of L-Glutamine with 5g of Branch Chain Amino Acids. With this combination I have noticed that I last longer and ride harder on the hard rides and have noticed a considerably less fatigue after the ride with less soreness. I'm going to need to talk to him again to get the full understanding the science.

the evidence in terms of performance/endurance exercise is somewhat equivocal in terms of glutamine, and very equivocal for BCAA.

Ric

You are joking and now you are caught.

Free-from glutamine is used by the small intestine for ENERGY over glucose. It doesn't even make it to your bloodstream.

Ok, where is your evidence. Your statement and claims ain't cutting it especially after that.

'and your research evidence would be...?

there is unequivocal evidence showing that recovery and performance is much greater with carbohydrates in the amounts stated previously.

ric'

And gee, I wonder why so many are finding such unequivocal evidence isn't working for them and are asking the questions they are.

Also, please tell us which AA controls events in the bloodstream resulting in release of BCAA's.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Chemicalanarchy
You are joking and now you are caught.

Free-from glutamine is used by the small intestine for ENERGY over glucose. It doesn't even make it to your bloodstream.

Ok, where is your evidence. Your statement and claims ain't cutting it especially after that.

'and your research evidence would be...?

there is unequivocal evidence showing that recovery and performance is much greater with carbohydrates in the amounts stated previously.

ric'

And gee, I wonder why so many are finding such unequivocal evidence isn't working for them and are asking the questions they are.

use okg it breaks down to glutamine and arginine and passes the gut glutamine is amino very abundant in muscle and helps recovery but carbs are needed also

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Chemicalanarchy
25g protein before, 25g during, and 25g after your workout will improve your recovery greatly.

Not sure about the during part, but I definitely agree with the before and after parts. So much emphasis is placed on carbs in cycling diets that the need for protein is often neglected.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Cowboyathlete
Not sure about the during part, but I definitely agree with the before and after parts. So much emphasis is placed on carbs in cycling diets that the need for protein is often neglected.

as i've pointed out before, it's highly unlikely anyone would be deficient in protein, in the western world. there's a few possible exceptions, such as maybe fruitarians, vegans with poor food choices, and anyone who ate a daft diet (e.g., they just consumed sugar).

additionally, there's no evidence that directly prior to exercise that protein would be beneficial and not a whole lot that it's beneficial directly afterwards (as long as the protein requirements are met, which in virtually everyone they are).

ric

Quoted post said:

it's highly unlikely anyone would be deficient in protein, in the western world

I'm not really sure. It depends what do you call western world and how does western diet look like. According to my data racing cyclist needs 1,4-1,6g of protein per kg of body weight(for me, 67kg, it is 94-107g per day). Hi-protein foods such as chicken/turkey breast, fish, lean beef or white cheese contain no more than 20% protein in their mass. I'm not sure if an average western man/woman does eat 0.5kg hi-quality protein products a day. It's fully possible to do that, but it does require some planning and attention, so I wouldn't say it is highly unlikely to get in protein-deficency. Even though many people eat a lot of meat in fastfoods, fry it for dinner etc people involved in sports don't eat such things(or not so often). They know that it is essential to provide energy for their training. So they eat mostly carbo-rich foods(so i think that 'western' habits don't work any more). protein doesn't seem as important, so there's a risk of deficiency. It does happen. Early in my racing I wouldn't bother with protein. Everyone around'd say carbscarbscarbs. So i ate a lot of pasta bread and cereal. I'd use carbohydrate supplement after a ride. But it didnt work well. I did lose a lot off muscle mass which is important for a mtbiker. i felt tired. Now I try to keep protein high, switched from carbo-supplement to a Gainer(13,5g protein per 100gr serving)after a ride and it works really fine. I consider BCAA supplementation as well. So i don't think that's good to say that people don't have to worry about protein intake.

Cheers
yash

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by yash
I'm not really sure. It depends what do you call western world and how does western diet look like. According to my data racing cyclist needs 1,4-1,6g of protein per kg of body weight(for me, 67kg, it is 94-107g per day). Hi-protein foods such as chicken/turkey breast, fish, lean beef or white cheese contain no more than 20% protein in their mass. I'm not sure if an average western man/woman does eat 0.5kg hi-quality protein products a day. It's fully possible to do that, but it does require some planning and attention, so I wouldn't say it is highly unlikely to get in protein-deficency. Even though many people eat a lot of meat in fastfoods, fry it for dinner etc people involved in sports don't eat such things(or not so often). They know that it is essential to provide energy for their training. So they eat mostly carbo-rich foods(so i think that 'western' habits don't work any more). protein doesn't seem as important, so there's a risk of deficiency. It does happen. Early in my racing I wouldn't bother with protein. Everyone around'd say carbscarbscarbs. So i ate a lot of pasta bread and cereal. I'd use carbohydrate supplement after a ride. But it didnt work well. I did lose a lot off muscle mass which is important for a mtbiker. i felt tired. Now I try to keep protein high, switched from carbo-supplement to a Gainer(13,5g protein per 100gr serving)after a ride and it works really fine. I consider BCAA supplementation as well. So i don't think that's good to say that people don't have to worry about protein intake.

Cheers
yash

There's plenty of protein in 'non-protein' foods (i.e., foods that we don't typically think of as being protein based, such as pasta, cereal, legumes, etc.)

Research and data analysis has shown that most people eat a surfeit of protein including vegetarians. possible exceptions are e.g., fruitarians, vegans, and people on strict weight loss diets, etc.

The ACSM position stand on Nutrition and Athletic Performance states that "it is worth noting that the customary diets of most athletes provide sufficient protein to cover even the increased amounts that may be needed" (p 2135).

Additionally, "if protein intake was even as low as 10% of energy intake absolute protein intake would exceed the recommendations for protein intake for athletes" when the diet meets the required energy input level.

In other words, assuming that you are eating enough to maintain weight or loose weight slowly and have enough carbs in your diet (as these spare protein requirements), it's highly unlikely that you'd need protein supplementation.

By way of a personal example, i'm a strict vegetarian, and thought i may have problems meeting the requirements. however, after analysing my diet, my intake was ~ 2.0 g/kg protein per day. in most cases you'd be hard pushed to find an under protein eater.

ric

Yash, you have right, ricstern your food hav some problem.

From first:
If you calculating proteins an carbo, which is writen on food pack, could be realy tricki, whit over cooking and other things this value is lover than we expect. Also if you eat fruits, there is a lot of research whereis writen thah today fuit hava so less vitamns,carbo, proteins like some 20 years ago. But if you eat only vegetable, you will have problem with power and endurance, because human body is consist of a lot of type amino acid, and some of this amino acid you can find only in red meat. But no problem if you train for your self, if you want to be something or recover faster, do less work and come farther have more endurance then you must also eat meat.

Second:
Endurance sport you need a lot of carbo, it a also depend on power you use and length. For some cyler on tour, they will have sirius problem i think if they drink normal carbo drink like getorade. Because they use more carbo that this drink can replace. I read that glucose can come in blood about 1g every minute which means that at best you can get onl 60g carbo in blood so multiply by 4 and you get calories 240, i tnhink that all tha cyler burn up more than 240 calorie per our so they need better drink, with sugars wih high glucemik index, and with osmolarity for faster absobcion.
If trainig takes less than our or two there is no problem what to driknk, but it's beter drink some carbo because, you will have faster recover for next trip.
There i also wtiten that best propotion is 4:1 carbo and protein, mybe is better that ypu read this

http://www.poweringmuscles.com/musclerecovery.asp?article_number=4

and some other articles.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by matko
[B]Yash, you have right, ricstern your food hav some problem.

From first:
If you calculating proteins an carbo, which is writen on food pack, could be realy tricki, whit over cooking and other things this value is lover than we expect. Also if you eat fruits, there is a lot of research whereis writen thah today fuit hava so less vitamns,carbo, proteins like some 20 years ago. But if you eat only vegetable, you will have problem with power and endurance, because human body is consist of a lot of type amino acid, and some of this amino acid you can find only in red meat. But no problem if you train for your self, if you want to be something or recover faster, do less work and come farther have more endurance then you must also eat meat.
[/quote]

no one said to only eat vegetables. there's no evidence whatsoever that you have to eat meat to be an endurance or even strength athlete. preotein requirements can easily be met by a vegetarian diet as well as a mixed diet. thus, i stand by what i previously said.

Quoted post said:

Second:
Endurance sport you need a lot of carbo, it a also depend on power you use and length. For some cyler on tour, they will have sirius problem i think if they drink normal carbo drink like getorade. Because they use more carbo that this drink can replace. I read that glucose can come in blood about 1g every minute which means that at best you can get onl 60g carbo in blood so multiply by 4 and you get calories 240, i tnhink that all tha cyler burn up more than 240 calorie per our so they need better drink, with sugars wih high glucemik index, and with osmolarity for faster absobcion.
If trainig takes less than our or two there is no problem what to driknk, but it's beter drink some carbo because, you will have faster recover for next trip.

Quoted post said:

There i also wtiten that best propotion is 4:1 carbo and protein, mybe is better that ypu read this

http://www.poweringmuscles.com/musclerecovery.asp?article_number=4

and some other articles. [/B]

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by yash
I'm not sure if an average western man/woman does eat 0.5kg hi-quality protein products a day. It's fully possible to do that, but it does require some planning and attention, so I wouldn't say it is highly unlikely to get in protein-deficency.

Cheers
yash

I think it requires some common sense. Yeah, lots of westerners eat poorly. But most food surveys (a few herewould do well to check out NHANES surveys) indicate that Americans are getting more then their fair share of protein.

Please watch out using Protein because high doses can be very bad for your kidney's. If you use Protein drinks I would suggest you take a Zinc tablet with it, it's a real energy boost! And if you want a cheap recovery drink which contains all the amino acids you need after hard training I suggest you take 500ml of milk (low fat) and a banana. You mix the banana and the milk, you add two spoons of sugar and mix again. This drink is really cheap and contains all the amino acids you need after a hard training or race.