Another Madone 5.9 question

MacMyDay said:

Hi there,

I've been reading around for a rather long time now (mainly due to having nothing better to do with the cold weather) about people's views of the Trek Madone 5.9 and found it appears rather black and white: people either love it or hate it. What I've got the option of is between the Trek Madone 5.9 or the Giant TCR Zero, for my friend owns a bike shop and can get me a large discount on them both - 20% and 25% respectively. What I wished to simply ask was people's opinions on the Trek over the Giant, as of course there is that entire "Lance Effect" placed on it, with people - such as myself - thinking that a 6 time winner of the TdF wouldn't ride a bike that wasn't particularly good. Unless, of course, the USPS (Sorry, Discovery Channel) team are tied into a contract.

Well, if you don't like the stock colours for the Madone 5.9, you can get it custom coloured with the Trek Project One 😄
Visit the Trek website and look for the "Project One" tab.

MacMyDay said:

Hi there,

I've been reading around for a rather long time now (mainly due to having nothing better to do with the cold weather) about people's views of the Trek Madone 5.9 and found it appears rather black and white: people either love it or hate it. What I've got the option of is between the Trek Madone 5.9 or the Giant TCR Zero, for my friend owns a bike shop and can get me a large discount on them both - 20% and 25% respectively. What I wished to simply ask was people's opinions on the Trek over the Giant, as of course there is that entire "Lance Effect" placed on it, with people - such as myself - thinking that a 6 time winner of the TdF wouldn't ride a bike that wasn't particularly good. Unless, of course, the USPS (Sorry, Discovery Channel) team are tied into a contract.

Well, the USPS now Discovery team's primary equipment sponsor is Trek, so of course they're obligated to ride their bikes. But it's also true that a 6 time TdF winner wouldn't ride a bike that's not particularly good. That doesn't mean that the Trek is better than the Giant though. Once you're spending that much on a bike your going to get a great ride no matter which one you choose. You just have to go with your personal preference.

Discovery is tied to a Trek contract, but they wouldn't have signed the contract in the first place if they weren't getting some fast bikes. Contracts for bike sponsorships are pretty loose though. A lot of the bikes in the pro peleton are just painted to look like they came from the sponsors. Almost all of the tires are re-labeled. Postal in particular was racing all of their time trials on Litespeeds painted to look like Treks a few years ago.
All of that aside, Trek and Giant both make good bikes, and you aren't going to be disapointed with the quality in either of them. They have different geometries though, so test ride both and see which fits you better.

In this new era of carbon fiber fabrication, it is getting much harder, if not impossible, to use the "other builder's frame with your sponsors decals" trick. This is due to the nature of carbon fiber fabrication. The shapes are so varied..... It was too easy in the lugged steel frame days and even with TIG welded steel, ti and aluminum.
As far as Giant and Trek, they both have their fans. What's the point of making comments pitting them against each other unless you've ridden both extensively with the same components, wheels and tires (right down to the air pressure).
I say, pick the one that will inspire you to ride it more. Even if that means you like a paint scheme on one over the other. But, you won't be any faster on either.

My views......

artmichalek said:

Discovery is tied to a Trek contract, but they wouldn't have signed the contract in the first place if they weren't getting some fast bikes. Contracts for bike sponsorships are pretty loose though. A lot of the bikes in the pro peleton are just painted to look like they came from the sponsors. Almost all of the tires are re-labeled. Postal in particular was racing all of their time trials on Litespeeds painted to look like Treks a few years ago.
All of that aside, Trek and Giant both make good bikes, and you aren't going to be disapointed with the quality in either of them. They have different geometries though, so test ride both and see which fits you better.

MacMyDay said:

Hi there,

I've been reading around for a rather long time now (mainly due to having nothing better to do with the cold weather) about people's views of the Trek Madone 5.9 and found it appears rather black and white: people either love it or hate it. What I've got the option of is between the Trek Madone 5.9 or the Giant TCR Zero, for my friend owns a bike shop and can get me a large discount on them both - 20% and 25% respectively. What I wished to simply ask was people's opinions on the Trek over the Giant, as of course there is that entire "Lance Effect" placed on it, with people - such as myself - thinking that a 6 time winner of the TdF wouldn't ride a bike that wasn't particularly good. Unless, of course, the USPS (Sorry, Discovery Channel) team are tied into a contract.

I read the German cycling mag "Tour". Its technical editor, Dirk Zedler, does a great job performing objective tests. They tested the Giant TCR recently and showed that it had some limitations in the steering tube stiffness department. This makes it a questionable choice for heavy riders or people who dive into downhills hard and don't have the skills to handle a twitchy front end. Their comment was that pros (like Jan Ullrich, Lance, et al) don't have a problem handling the flexy sterring and are willing to make the compromise on behalf of lower weight.

Just some food for thought. I based my recent bike purchase on Tour's stiffness-to-wieght rating even though I am a relatively light 155 pounds.

I haven't seen a test of the Trek 5.9 yet.

MacMyDay said:

Hi there,

I've been reading around for a rather long time now (mainly due to having nothing better to do with the cold weather) about people's views of the Trek Madone 5.9 and found it appears rather black and white: people either love it or hate it. What I've got the option of is between the Trek Madone 5.9 or the Giant TCR Zero, for my friend owns a bike shop and can get me a large discount on them both - 20% and 25% respectively. What I wished to simply ask was people's opinions on the Trek over the Giant, as of course there is that entire "Lance Effect" placed on it, with people - such as myself - thinking that a 6 time winner of the TdF wouldn't ride a bike that wasn't particularly good. Unless, of course, the USPS (Sorry, Discovery Channel) team are tied into a contract.

I have a 2004 Madone 5.9 with Campy Chorus (built up a frameset). I love it. I am a collegiate road racer and triathlete (I also have a dedicated tri bike). Coming from a steel Marin to the Trek, I can sum it up like this: The Trek has 90% of the comfort of the steel bike, and 200% of the stiffness. It is solid, handles well, and rides remarkably well. Component choice can affect the ride quality of the frame as much as the frame itself. I built up some DD RR1.1 rim/ chorus hub wheels that ride well. If you use Ksyrium SL's on this bike (or any bike for that matter) it will ride significantly harder. Between the Trek and the Giant, I would much rather have the Trek- they have the most R&D money of anybody. Not to say that the Giant isn't a sweet ride, but I prefer the Trek. It is a very reliable bike that can win races, or simply perform very well for excercise and training.

Bamberg said:

I read the German cycling mag "Tour". Its technical editor, Dirk Zedler, does a great job performing objective tests. They tested the Giant TCR recently and showed that it had some limitations in the steering tube stiffness department. This makes it a questionable choice for heavy riders or people who dive into downhills hard and don't have the skills to handle a twitchy front end. Their comment was that pros (like Jan Ullrich, Lance, et al) don't have a problem handling the flexy sterring and are willing to make the compromise on behalf of lower weight.

Just some food for thought. I based my recent bike purchase on Tour's stiffness-to-wieght rating even though I am a relatively light 155 pounds.

I haven't seen a test of the Trek 5.9 yet.

Excellent point...stiffness-to-weight should be a primary quality for a frame, but you rarely hear it mentioned (at least in the US). It's easy to compare weights, but the frame also should have the stiffness you want for good out-of-saddle response and solid handling on fast twisty descents.

Good to see someone in the world is doing objective testing, rather than just advertising weights and hype about the "smooth as silk" ride.

TOUR published an interesting article a few years ago: http://damonrinard.com/EFBe/frame_fatigue_test.htm

Have you also seen the frame durability test results done by EFBe?

Thanks for all the info, and for the article, dhk. I'm going to go along in 2 weeks time to take them on a trial run, but because he's got to order the Madone 5.9 in for me as I want Campagnolo Record components, he'll probably force me to buy it anyway

dhk said:

Excellent point...stiffness-to-weight should be a primary quality for a frame, but you rarely hear it mentioned (at least in the US). It's easy to compare weights, but the frame also should have the stiffness you want for good out-of-saddle response and solid handling on fast twisty descents.

Good to see someone in the world is doing objective testing, rather than just advertising weights and hype about the "smooth as silk" ride.

TOUR published an interesting article a few years ago: damonrinard.comframe fatigue test.htmOpen ↗

Have you also seen the frame durability test results done by EFBe?

No, I haven't seen EFBe's tests. I read the TOUR summary of the 750 frames they had tested over 10 years from 1993-2003. I wish I had saved that issue. My frame came from the German catalog-sales shop called Roseversand. It is 7005 aluminum, the steering head and bottom bracket stiffnesses are both around 100 Nm/°, and the complete bike with Dura Ace 10-speed weighs less than 8 kg (17 1/2 lobs). Also, I got the black anodized finish so I don't have to deal with scrathes, etc. The frame got a weghted rating of Nr. 2 out of 750 for the combination of stiffness-to-wieght and durability. I think the Scott CR1 came in first.

It's good to see that another American reads TOUR. I might continue my subscription to it when I return to the States later this year, but it will cost serious €€.

BTW I am riding in TOUR's sponsored race across the Alps this summer, the Trans-Alp Challenge. It's tough to log miles this time of year in sunny tropical Bavaria.

Bamberg said:

No, I haven't seen EFBe's tests. I read the TOUR summary of the 750 frames they had tested over 10 years from 1993-2003. I wish I had saved that issue. My frame came from the German catalog-sales shop called Roseversand. It is 7005 aluminum, the steering head and bottom bracket stiffnesses are both around 100 Nm/°, and the complete bike with Dura Ace 10-speed weighs less than 8 kg (17 1/2 lobs). Also, I got the black anodized finish so I don't have to deal with scrathes, etc. The frame got a weghted rating of Nr. 2 out of 750 for the combination of stiffness-to-wieght and durability. I think the Scott CR1 came in first.

It's good to see that another American reads TOUR. I might continue my subscription to it when I return to the States later this year, but it will cost serious €€.

BTW I am riding in TOUR's sponsored race across the Alps this summer, the Trans-Alp Challenge. It's tough to log miles this time of year in sunny tropical Bavaria.

Thanks, but I don't subscribe...just search for test articles online. The latest EFBe test results I found are at http://www.efbe.de/defbefrm.htm

Note that manufacturers must pay to have their frames tested, and those that do must consent to allow the results published. So, there are likely other frames in the world that could pass these tests as well.

Just thought I'd reply thanking everyone for their thoughts.

I've placed an order for the Madone 5.9, yet with Shimano Dura-Ace (standard) components. Mainly due to the lack of Campagnolo availability in the UK, but also because having went from a Tiagra to a Dura-Ace, I can assure anyone that it's simply heaven and doubt there would be a significant difference upgrading even more. I was warned, however, that the Trek's stiffness would produce a less comfortable ride after a specific time, whereas the Giant would allow for a more comfortable ride at the sake of having a few more pounds of weight.
I've been unable to take the Madone for a test ride, but shall merely hope that your reviews and those of the web are correct 😉

MacMyDay said:

Just thought I'd reply thanking everyone for their thoughts.

I've placed an order for the Madone 5.9, yet with Shimano Dura-Ace (standard) components. Mainly due to the lack of Campagnolo availability in the UK, but also because having went from a Tiagra to a Dura-Ace, I can assure anyone that it's simply heaven and doubt there would be a significant difference upgrading even more. I was warned, however, that the Trek's stiffness would produce a less comfortable ride after a specific time, whereas the Giant would allow for a more comfortable ride at the sake of having a few more pounds of weight.
I've been unable to take the Madone for a test ride, but shall merely hope that your reviews and those of the web are correct 😉

I can assure you will not regret your decision, enjoy your fast raid!!!

Please let us know what do you think when you finally get it.

cuervo said:

I can assure you will not regret your decision, enjoy your fast raid!!!

Please let us know what do you think when you finally get it.

Thanks a lot. I should have it by next week sometime, but that's not certain, as the saddle + seadpost as Bontrager [censored] Lite instead of the standard X Lite.

Should be a beauty. Can't wait, I can say that much

MacMyDay said:

Just thought I'd reply thanking everyone for their thoughts.

I've placed an order for the Madone 5.9, yet with Shimano Dura-Ace (standard) components. Mainly due to the lack of Campagnolo availability in the UK, but also because having went from a Tiagra to a Dura-Ace, I can assure anyone that it's simply heaven and doubt there would be a significant difference upgrading even more. I was warned, however, that the Trek's stiffness would produce a less comfortable ride after a specific time, whereas the Giant would allow for a more comfortable ride at the sake of having a few more pounds of weight.
I've been unable to take the Madone for a test ride, but shall merely hope that your reviews and those of the web are correct 😉

Why didn't you go the SL?

I've just ordered a Madone 5.2 SL with Record & Kysrium SL's. Far cheaper than the 5.9 SL. They share the same frame, fork and seatpost.