Another petition

Tony Raven said:

For the abolition of the 14% import duty on bikes given that the local
industry it was intended to protect no longer exists.http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/No-Bicycle-Duty/

Maybe these petitions are not useful but at least it might start people
thinking

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

I don't like any restrictive trade dutys, but there are still bike
builders in this country.

David Lloyd (at work)

Tony Raven said:

For the abolition of the 14% import duty on bikes given that the local
industry it was intended to protect no longer exists.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/No-Bicycle-Duty/

Maybe these petitions are not useful but at least it might start
people thinking

AFAIK, its 14% on the imported value, not the retail price.
There are wholesale and retail markups to cover afterwards, so we're looking
at well under 5% on the retail price.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

David Lloyd said:

Tony Raven said:

For the abolition of the 14% import duty on bikes given that the
local
industry it was intended to protect no longer
exists.http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/No-Bicycle-Duty/

Maybe these petitions are not useful but at least it might start
people
thinking

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which
there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

I don't like any restrictive trade dutys, but there are still bike
builders in this country.

Including Pashley and Brompton who still manufacture in volume.

The bespoke handbuilt to order market, as well as very expensive Moultons,
are probably immune from import duty issues.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Tony Raven said:

For the abolition of the 14% import duty on bikes given that the local
industry it was intended to protect no longer exists.http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/No-Bicycle-Duty/

Maybe these petitions are not useful but at least it might start people
thinking

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

I'm going to start a petition for them to take the petition system
seriously - since every reply is "we have looked at this and decided
we are right anyway, cheers, bye!".

in message <[email hidden]>, Tony Raven

(') said:

For the abolition of the 14% import duty on bikes given that the local
industry it was intended to protect no longer exists.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/No-Bicycle-Duty/

The premise is incorrect; the industry it was intended to protect does
still exist, and produces most of the high quality bikes available in the
UK. Factories in Italy (Colnago, Pinarello, Opera, De Rosa, many others),
Spain (Orbea) France (Look, Time), Germany (Reise und Muller, Nicolai),
the Netherlands (Gazelle, Koga Miyata, many others) England (Orange,
Dolan, Brompton) and the Czech Republic (Dawes, among others) still
produce significant quantities of high quality bikes in the EU.

The only company I'd want to buy a bike from that is /not/ on that list is
Cannondale, and I don't particularly mind having to pay 14% extra for a
Cannondale if that's what it takes to guarantee a healthy European bike
industry.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Iraq war: it's time for regime change...
... go now, Tony, while you can still go with dignity.
[update three years after this .sig was written: it's still relevant]

Am Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:33:22 +0100 schrieb Simon Brooke:

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Tony Raven

(') said:

For the abolition of the 14% import duty on bikes given that the local
industry it was intended to protect no longer exists.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/No-Bicycle-Duty/

The premise is incorrect; the industry it was intended to protect does
still exist, and produces most of the high quality bikes available in the
UK.

I doubt that the existence of these companies producing high-priced bikes
would be endangered by lowering the import costs for good-value-for-money
Chinese frames/bikes.

Quoted message said:

Factories in Italy (Colnago, Pinarello, Opera, De Rosa, many others),
Spain (Orbea) France (Look, Time), Germany (Reise und Muller, Nicolai),

Even low cost manufacturers like
http://www.derby-cycle.de/englisch/ueberuns.htm
http://www.mifa.de/
still produce in Germany (as fas as i know...)
Even when many frames are now coming from Asia, many bikes are still
assembled in Europe.

Quoted message said:

the Netherlands (Gazelle, Koga Miyata, many others)

Gazelle stopped the production of its steel frames in 2006 and imports now
all frames, presumably from Asia.

Quoted message said:

England (Orange,
Dolan, Brompton) and the Czech Republic (Dawes, among others) still
produce significant quantities of high quality bikes in the EU.

Fort Frames from Czech Republic are very good value for money and can
easily compete with frames from Asia - with or without import duty.
By the way... do they produce for Dawes?). Kross from Poland is another big
European producer - according to their website 800,000 units produced in
2005. http://www.kross.pl/

Andreas

In news:[email hidden],
Tony Raven <[email hidden]> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell
us:

Quoted message said:

For the abolition of the 14% import duty on bikes given that the local
industry it was intended to protect no longer exists.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/No-Bicycle-Duty/

Maybe these petitions are not useful but at least it might start
people thinking

People: maybe. Politicians; highly unlikely.

Bah!

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
25.806975801127880315188420605149 - the root of all evil.

Nigel Cliffe said:

Tony Raven said:

For the abolition of the 14% import duty on bikes given that the local
industry it was intended to protect no longer exists.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/No-Bicycle-Duty/

Maybe these petitions are not useful but at least it might start
people thinking

AFAIK, its 14% on the imported value, not the retail price.
There are wholesale and retail markups to cover afterwards, so we're looking
at well under 5% on the retail price.

As someone who imports stuff from Australia from time to time, the bit
that irks me most is that they calculate the VAT I'm charged *after*
they've added on the 14% import duty. Exorbitant is the word I'm
looking for, I think. The polite one, anyway.
--
Carol (www.wrhpv.com)
"If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put
that thing in your mouth. Particularly if the thing is
cats." - Lemony Snicket _The Wide Window_

Carol Hague said:

Nigel Cliffe said:

Tony Raven said:

For the abolition of the 14% import duty on bikes given that the local
industry it was intended to protect no longer exists.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/No-Bicycle-Duty/

Maybe these petitions are not useful but at least it might start
people thinking

AFAIK, its 14% on the imported value, not the retail price.
There are wholesale and retail markups to cover afterwards, so we're looking
at well under 5% on the retail price.

As someone who imports stuff from Australia from time to time, the bit
that irks me most is that they calculate the VAT I'm charged *after*
they've added on the 14% import duty. Exorbitant is the word I'm
looking for, I think. The polite one, anyway.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that VAT should _not_ be
applied to duty. :-)

--
Matt B

Carol Hague said:

As someone who imports stuff from Australia from time to time, the bit
that irks me most is that they calculate the VAT I'm charged *after*
they've added on the 14% import duty. Exorbitant is the word I'm
looking for, I think. The polite one, anyway.

Will the link up with Azub for a GS European operation help with that?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Carol Hague said:

As someone who imports stuff from Australia from time to time, the bit
that irks me most is that they calculate the VAT I'm charged *after*
they've added on the 14% import duty. Exorbitant is the word I'm
looking for, I think. The polite one, anyway.

Will the link up with Azub for a GS European operation help with that?

Should do, we think, but we haven't tried it in practice yet.

We're about to order an X5 for demo purposes and for me to race on, so
we should find out soon.

--
Carol (www.wrhpv.com)
"If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put
that thing in your mouth. Particularly if the thing is
cats." - Lemony Snicket _The Wide Window_

Tony Raven said:

For the abolition of the 14% import duty on bikes given that the local
industry it was intended to protect no longer exists.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/No-Bicycle-Duty/

Maybe these petitions are not useful but at least it might start people
thinking

In addition to Orange,Dolan & Brompton as mentioned by Simon Brooke, how
about On-One, Planet-X, kinesis, Muddy Fox, RidgeBack, Pace, Saracen,
Moulton......

Nigel Cliffe said:

David Lloyd said:

Tony Raven said:

For the abolition of the 14% import duty on bikes given that the
local
industry it was intended to protect no longer
exists.http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/No-Bicycle-Duty/

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Maybe these petitions are not useful but at least it might start
people
thinking

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

--
Tony

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which
there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

Quoted message said:

I don't like any restrictive trade dutys, but there are still bike
builders in this country.

Including Pashley and Brompton who still manufacture in volume.

The bespoke handbuilt to order market, as well as very expensive Moultons,
are probably immune from import duty issues.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster athttp://www.2mm.org.uk/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I would rather that such blunt duties were replaced by an assessment
of the working conditions of the workers producing the bikes and the
environmental impact of the production and transportation. I don't
like the thought that we support third world slavery just to get a
bargain.

David Lloyd (at work)

in message <[email hidden]>, Rob Horton

('yahoo@mr_horton.com') said:

Tony Raven said:

For the abolition of the 14% import duty on bikes given that the local
industry it was intended to protect no longer exists.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/No-Bicycle-Duty/

Maybe these petitions are not useful but at least it might start people
thinking

In addition to Orange,Dolan & Brompton as mentioned by Simon Brooke, how
about On-One,

Made in Taiwan

Quoted message said:

Planet-X,

Don't know

Quoted message said:

kinesis,

Don't know

Quoted message said:

Muddy Fox,

Taiwan

Quoted message said:

RidgeBack,

Taiwan

Quoted message said:

Pace,

Don't know

Quoted message said:

Saracen,

Taiwan and Vietnam

Quoted message said:

Moulton......

England.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Just as defying the law of gravity through building aircraft requires
careful design and a lot of effort, so too does defying laws of
economics. It seems to be a deeply ingrained aspect of humanity to
forever strive to improve things, so unquestioning acceptance of a
free market system seems to me to be unnatural. ;; Charles Bryant

Rob Horton wrote on 27/06/2007 10:07 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Tony Raven said:

For the abolition of the 14% import duty on bikes given that the local
industry it was intended to protect no longer exists.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/No-Bicycle-Duty/

Maybe these petitions are not useful but at least it might start
people thinking

In addition to Orange,Dolan & Brompton as mentioned by Simon Brooke, how
about On-One, Planet-X, kinesis, Muddy Fox, RidgeBack, Pace, Saracen,
Moulton......

Many of whom buy their frames in the Far East and assemble them over here.

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

David Lloyd wrote on 27/06/2007 10:19 +0100:

Quoted message said:

I would rather that such blunt duties were replaced by an assessment
of the working conditions of the workers producing the bikes and the
environmental impact of the production and transportation. I don't
like the thought that we support third world slavery just to get a
bargain.

You should read the excellent book by Pietra Rivoli, Travels of a
T-shirt in a Global Economy. It might change your thinking. It did mine.

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

in message <[email hidden]>, Tony Raven

(') said:

Rob Horton wrote on 27/06/2007 10:07 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Tony Raven said:

For the abolition of the 14% import duty on bikes given that the local
industry it was intended to protect no longer exists.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/No-Bicycle-Duty/

Maybe these petitions are not useful but at least it might start
people thinking

In addition to Orange,Dolan & Brompton as mentioned by Simon Brooke, how
about On-One, Planet-X, kinesis, Muddy Fox, RidgeBack, Pace, Saracen,
Moulton......

Many of whom buy their frames in the Far East and assemble them over
here.

In fact, of course, even the quality makers these days tend to import their
bottom-of-the-range frames from the far east, and the best frames made in
Taiwan are very good indeed. Only aluminium Oranges are still welded up in
Yorkshire, I believe; the steel ones come from Taiwan (and are very nice).
Even Colnago include some Taiwan-made frames in their range.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Ring of great evil
Small one casts it into flame
Bringing rise of Men ;; gonzoron

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:33:45 +0100, Andreas Schulze-Bäing
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[---]

Quoted message said:

Fort Frames from Czech Republic are very good value for money and can
easily compete with frames from Asia - with or without import duty.
By the way... do they produce for Dawes?

Don't know about Dawes, but I'm pretty sure they produce the steel
frames for the Fahrradmanufaktur in Oldenburg.

Simon Brooke said:

In fact, of course, even the quality makers these days tend to import their
bottom-of-the-range frames from the far east, and the best frames made in
Taiwan are very good indeed. Only aluminium Oranges are still welded up in
Yorkshire, I believe; the steel ones come from Taiwan (and are very nice).
Even Colnago include some Taiwan-made frames in their range.

As do Thorn!

Matt